Gay Mitchell
Ceist:3 Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the position Ireland took in the discussions at the Cardiff Summit, Wales, on access for the Schengen area by Norway and Iceland. [16639/98]
Ceisteanna — Questions. Priority Questions. - Schengen Agreement.
Norway and Iceland already participate in the Schengen arrangements through the co-operation agreement of 1996 between them and the Schengen states on the abolition of controls on persons at their common borders. A new agreement has to be concluded with Norway and Iceland as a result of the provisions in the protocol to the Amsterdam Treaty for incorporating Schengen into the treaties. It was in the context of the implementation of the Treaty of Amsterdam that the matter arose at the European Council in Cardiff on 15-16 June. Ireland joined with other member states in looking forward to agreement at the General Affairs Council on 29 June on the mandate for negotiations with Norway and Iceland and in urging their timely completion. However, the matter was not finalised at the Council on 29 June and is still under examination.
I have given this matter one of my three priority questions because it is of concern not only to me but will be of great concern to the public when it becomes clear that Norwegian and Icelandic citizens, who are not members of the EU, will have freer access to travel within the Union than Irish citizens. Have the Minister and his Department looked at innovative ways of trying to allay the concerns which citizens here will have? In other words, is it possible by agreement with the Schengen states, without leaving the common travel area, to agree to allow a lesser document than a passport to be used by Irish citizens travelling to the Schengen area or by people within the Schengen area travelling to Ireland? In some cases it might suit people to continue to show their passport but driving licences, a social security card and so on might suffice. We are inclined to say we do not have an identity system in Ireland, therefore, we would have to introduce it if we were to seek such an accommodation. I do not believe that. Where there is a will there is a way. If we continue to grind away at this, some accommodation can be found. I put down a priority question to ask the Minister to find innovative ways of doing this so that Irish citizens can travel in the Schengen area without a passport while we await the British Government's agreement to join Schengen. Obviously, we have indicated we wish to join.
The Deputy has made a fair point — which he previously raised at Taoiseach's Question Time on 24 June — referring to the call by the European Council in Cardiff for progress on the mandate for negotiations with Norway and Iceland. He voiced concern that, as a consequence of that agreement and the Schengen protocol, citizens of those countries would have greater ease of access to the EU than Irish citizens, and suggested that a concession might be secured on the basis that our citizens could travel using an EU driving licence or a similar document instead of a passport. He also urged the Taoiseach to instruct the Ministers and Secretaries group to continue to examine the matter.
The Taoiseach acknowledged the difficulties mentioned by the Deputy and took note of his comments. The matter had already been taken up by the group, which directed the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Social, Community and Family Affairs, Environment and Local Government, and Foreign Affairs to consider and report on the possibility of adapting or integrating the existing social services card or EU driving licence into an acceptable identity card specifically for use by Irish citizens when travelling in Europe, thereby eliminating the need to produce a passport at entry points. The Department of the Taoiseach had already taken part in the exercise and the group, chaired by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, noted there would be major difficulties in adapting the EU driving licence for use as an identity or travel card, not least that EU legislation would be required to allow part of the licence to be reserved for national use. The group also felt that, while it would be possible to adapt the social service card, this would involve significant new administrative measures and extra resources. It concluded that, irrespective of the document available to Irish citizens for travelling abroad, this would not affect in a practical way the checks to be undergone when crossing Schengen external borders.
The Deputy is concerned about this matter and at his request I will try to resolve it. There appears to be a considerable amount of bureaucracy in the conclusions reached. I do not say that as a criticism of the officials, quite the contrary, they are doing an excellent job. In the meantime, however, we could look at this again and I undertake to do so.
The golden opportunity is now, while Norway and Iceland are negotiating their access, and we should use that leverage. I am not suggesting that Ireland should introduce an identity card system, because I do not see a need for it, but that the Minister seeks a facility which would allow a lesser document or a travel identity card——
We must proceed to the next question.
Could I just ask——
No, the strict time limit of six minutes on Priority Questions is up.
Can we continue in ordinary Question Time?
No, we must proceed.
I was in mid-sentence.
That is the rule laid down by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and I have no option but to implement it.
I feel like leaving the House to the Minister and yourself, a Cheann Comhairle.
This has been the practice for the past few weeks since the new rule was introduced.
People have been stopped in mid-sentence?
Yes, even Ministers. That is the rule, I must implement it, I have done so, and Members have not questioned it.
I am questioning it now because it is daft. There is no one else here apart from the Ministers and Deputy Michael D. Higgins.
Question No. 4 cannot be taken because the Member concerned is not present.