On a point of order, will the Minister give all Members a copy of his speech? I understand that some Members have copies.
Supplementary Estimates, 1998. - Vote 21 — Prisons.
That a supplementary sum not exceeding £8,000,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment in the year ending 31 December, 1998 for the salaries and expenses of the office of the Prison Service, probation and welfare staff and other expenses in connection with prisons, including places of detention; for probation and welfare services; and for payment of a grant-in-aid.
On the Order of Business on Thursday, 5 November, an explanation was sought as to why a Supplementary Estimate was required for the Garda pay agreement. Deputy McManus had originally raised this matter on 3 November in Select Committee when dealing with the Supplementary Estimate. In my response to that committee I explained the situation. However, to facilitate the House I will repeat the explanation and give a full background to the issue. I remind Members that the Minister for Finance and his Department have primary responsibility for determining matters relating to public finances and obviously I have to be guided by them in this matter.
In June this year, while Garda pay negotiations were under way, Deputy McManus asked whether the cost of the Garda pay deal——
I understand that copies are not readily available but that copies were supplied to spokespersons.
We also want copies.
I do not have them, unfortunately.
Is the speech covered by the Official Secrets Act?
Not quite. In June, while pay negotiations were under way, Deputy McManus asked whether the cost of the pay deal would be met by savings in the Garda Vote or by a Supplementary Estimate. In my reply I said at the time that the cost would be met by a special contingency fund of the Department of Finance and that a Supplementary Estimate on the Garda Vote was not anticipated. That statement was made in good faith. Vote 4 is for increases in remuneration and is administered by the Department of Finance. It is the central contingency fund used for the funding of PCW local bargaining settlements. Vote 4 contained £84.14 million in the revised Estimate for 1998. This included a general contingency fund for the cost of settling the Garda matter as well as for the Defence Forces and craft workers' claims based on certain assessments made at the start of 1998. As the various pay negotiations progressed to a conclusion, it became clear to the Department of Finance, which has a role in these negotiations, that the contingency provision in Vote 4 would not be sufficient for all pay increases. The overrun on expenditure would require a Supplementary Estimate. The alternatives were to include the full amount in a Supplementary Estimate on Vote 4 remuneration or to include some or all of it in Supplementary Estimates for the relevant departmental votes.
At the time I made my statement to the Select Committee in June, the assumption was that there would be no Garda Supplementary Estimate and that the additional cost of the Garda deal would be covered by the Vote 4 remuneration. However, it is now clear that a Supplementary Estimate on the Garda Vote will be required even without taking account of the Garda pay deal. The Supplementary Estimate required for the Garda Vote is £80.98 million, of which £53.5 million relates to the pay deal. The Supplementary Estimate on the Garda Vote has to be taken this month or the Vote will be exhausted. I understand that regardless of the Garda pay deal a Supplementary Estimate will be required but the Minister for Finance does not propose to take it until early December. In the circumstances it was agreed, between the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Department of Finance that the full amount of the pay deal should be included in the Garda Supplementary Estimate with a corresponding reduction made in the remuneration Supplementary. It should be pointed out that whether the cost of the Garda pay deal is included in the remuneration Supplementary or the Garda Supplementary, the total amount of additional funding required will be the same.
What kind of management is going on in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform?
(Mayo): That was expensive blue flu.
Question put and agreed to.