It is proposed to take No. a8, motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimate — Vote 34; No. a8a, motion re Referral of Supplementary Estimate — Vote 34 — to Select Committee; and No. 23, Statements on the Book of Estimates, 1999, resumed. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) Nos. a8 and a8a shall be decided without debate and that any division demanded on No. a8 shall be taken forthwith; and (2) the proceedings on No. 23, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. Private Members' Business which shall be No. 60, motion re. third level education (resumed), shall take place today following the announcement of matters on the Adjournment under Standing Order 21.
Order of Business.
There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a8 and a8a agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 23 agreed?
No. On the Order of Business recently the Minister for Health and Children said that he had not published the waiting lists report which is relevant to the Estimates in that it deals with the reasons for the agony of many patients on waiting lists because it had not been agreed by the Government. The Government could have approved its publication when it met yesterday if that was an accurate statement by the Minister for Health and Children. We should not agree to conclude the debate on the Estimates, of which the Health Vote is an important part, without first knowing that the report will be published and all the details made known.
A number of matters from the Department of Health and Children, including the report mentioned, are still being considered by the Government.
Is it reasonable to ask us to conclude the debate on the Estimates without having this vital information which was collected at public expense and which the Minister has been using time and again as an excuse for why things have not been done? The Minister is reported in the newspapers this morning as being "defensive" about not publishing the report. If the Taoiseach were in Opposition, would he want the debate on the Estimates to be terminated without the report being available to the House?
There are many reports before the Government or in various Departments which would justify an increase in expenditure and which indicate how things can be done differently and the need for new agencies, not all of which were discussed before the Book of Estimates was published. The Book of Estimates is the Government's presentation of the moneys it has agreed to spend under the various subheads in 1999. The Minister for Health and Children uses various reports in his presentation to achieve the maximum amount for his Department.
There is access to this report under the Freedom of Information Act. When will it be published?
This is not Question Time.
What does the report contain that is so embarrassing that the Government will not publish it?
I support the reasonable request made by the leader of the Fine Gael Party. Will the Taoiseach confirm that it is the Government's intention to introduce a Supplementary Estimate next Tuesday? Will he give an undertaking that the report on waiting lists will be published before then?
It is intended to introduce a Supplementary Estimate next week.
It is ordered for Tuesday.
I cannot give a final date as to when the Government will complete its consideration of the report.
Why not? The report is ready.
The report on waiting lists will not be altered by the Government. We cannot have a meaningful debate on the Supplementary Estimate, let alone the Book of Estimates for next year, without the information which informed the Government's decision in the allocation of resources. Will the Taoiseach give a commitment that the report will be published before next Tuesday to facilitate a more meaningful debate on the Supplementary Estimate? That is a reasonable request and the Taoiseach should not refuse it.
I understand the report is largely statistical. What possible reason could there be for delaying its publication other than a political one?
None.
There is no delay. The report has been discussed briefly by the Government. It is not unreasonable that it should complete its consideration——
It does not have to be discussed before it is published.
It is being discussed and will be published.
What is wrong with letting the public see what is in the report? It should be published straight away.
Cover up.
Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 23 be agreed."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 72; Níl, 64.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Ahern, Noel.
- Kitt, Michael.
- Andrews, David.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Ardagh, Seán.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Brady, Johnny.
- Lenihan, Conor.
- Brady, Martin.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- Brennan, Matt.
- McDaid, James.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- McGennis, Marian.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- McGuinness, John.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Moffatt, Thomas.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Moloney, John.
- Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.
- Moynihan, Donal.
- Coughlan, Mary.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- Cullen, Martin.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- Daly, Brendan.
- O'Donnell, Liz.
- Davern, Noel.
- O'Flynn, Noel.
- de Valera, Síle.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- Dennehy, John.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- Ellis, John.
- O'Kennedy, Michael.
- Fahey, Frank.
- O'Malley, Desmond.
- Fleming, Seán.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Flood, Chris.
- Roche, Dick.
- Foley, Denis.
- Ryan, Eoin.
- Fox, Mildred.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Gildea, Thomas.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Hanafin, Mary.
- Wade, Eddie.
- Harney, Mary.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Healy-Rae, Jackie.
- Woods, Michael.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Wright, G. V.
Níl
- Allen, Bernard.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Barnes, Monica.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Bell, Michael.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- Broughan, Thomas.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- McGrath, Paul.
- Bruton, John.
- McManus, Liz.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Burke, Liam.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Burke, Ulick.
- Mitchell, Olivia.
- Carey, Donal.
- Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Cosgrave, Michael.
- Neville, Dan.
- Coveney, Simon.
- Noonan, Michael.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- Creed, Michael.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- Currie, Austin.
- O'Sullivan, Jan.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Owen, Nora.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Penrose, William.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Perry, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Farrelly, John.
- Reynolds, Gerard.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Sheehan, Patrick.
- Gilmore, Éamon.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Gormley, John.
- Spring, Dick.
- Hayes, Brian.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Stanton, David.
- Higgins, Michael.
- Timmins, Billy.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Upton, Pat.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Callely; Níl, Deputies Sheehan and Stagg.
Question declared carried.
Will the Taoiseach ensure this report is published very quickly? We should avoid these unnecessary divisions caused by the non-publication of a report which contains information the public should have.
On promised legislation, I understand from newspaper reports today that the British Prime Minister and the Taoiseach will announce the list of cross-Border bodies it is proposed to establish under the British-Irish Agreement. Since that decision, which we welcome, has clearly been made, although we do not know its contents, will the Taoiseach indicate what legislative changes, if any, will be required to give effect to these cross-Border bodies when established? Have they been factored into the legislative programme on the British-Irish Agreement in general?
Legislation will be required to implement these bodies through which we will have to work. The discussions are not yet complete and it would be wrong to say the bodies have been agreed on. Even if they are signed off by the British Prime Minister and me, it is, under the terms of the Agreement, a matter for Strand Two and for the parties. That process must take place. I emphasise I cannot sign off on those bodies without that process, which is an important factor in the Agreement.
When the Taoiseach talks about Strand Two, is it his understanding that the new Northern Ireland Assembly will be the other legislative party?
The Deputy is moving to the content of legislation.
It pertains to promised legislation. We have been told it involves negotiation with a second party. Will that second legislative party be the Assembly in Northern Ireland or Westminster?
It will be Westminster but the bodies will also be cleared by the Assembly.
I asked the Taoiseach yesterday on the Order of Business whether a referendum was planned on the allocation of powers to the proposed two regions which the Government is seeking to establish. He undertook to look at the matter and find out if such a referendum was planned. Has he clarified the matter yet? In light of the statistics he published yesterday in answer to Deputy Quinn as regards the figures on the counties, will he withdraw the proposal made to Brussels dividing this country into two clearly artificial regions and seek to plan the development of the country on the basis of the real wealth and poverty which exists?
I checked the constitutional issue and there are no proposals in that regard. In terms of the second issue, the Central Statistics Office and EUROSTAT will meet later this week on the figures.
There is a question on today's Order Paper on that matter.
Will they meet to clarify the statistics published yesterday?
They will meet to advance the submission already made.
Since the budget will be introduced next week, when may we expect to see the Finance Bill and the Social Welfare Bill? In the context of the budget, the Finance Bill and the Social Welfare Bill, will the Taoiseach bear in mind the warnings from his Cabinet colleague, the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Deputy de Valera, that under this Government the gap between rich and poor is widening?
The Deputy is moving into an area of disorder.
The gap between Clare and Limerick.
May I complete my point of disorder? Will the Taoiseach also bear in mind how distressing the Minister found the increase in homelessness and squalor? Will those facts be borne in mind?
The Deputy has a short memory.
Dr. Upton:
There are six Bills listed in the A list under the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. How many of those Bills will be published before the end of this session? Will the Taoiseach indicate into which categories the various Bills fall?
There are three Bills to be published before Christmas which I listed last week. The Data Protection Bill will be published before Christmas and the Equal Status Bill will be published at the beginning of 1999. I still do not have a date for the Family Law Bill. The Criminal Law (United Nations Convention against Torture) Bill will be published within the next few days. About four Bills will be published before Christmas.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): A Cheann Comhairle, both of us represent Carlow-Kilkenny but your exalted position prevents you from getting involved in mundane matters such as——
The Order of Business.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): ——Objective One status. In view of yesterday's figures which show that Carlow-Kilkenny is 10 per cent below counties Kerry and Clare, is the Taoiseach considering Carlow-Kilkenny for Objective One status?
The Deputy will have an opportunity in the Estimates debate to raise the matter and there are also questions on the Order Paper.
When may we expect legislation for a referendum on the so-called Partnership for Peace which the Taoiseach stated previously would be required as far as Fianna Fáil is concerned?
No referendum is planned at this stage.
Does that mean we will join Partnership for Peace without a referendum? The Taoiseach gave a commitment that we would have a referendum.
The Deputy was allowed to ask a question and should resume his seat.
Is the Taoiseach saying we will join Partnership for Peace without a referendum?
No.
The Deputy should resume his seat as he is being disorderly.
And so we are not joining.
(Mayo): In view of the fact that the overtime bill for prison officers has now reached a record £35 million this year, when may expect to see the Prison Service Bill, the heads of which were produced for the Minister by an expert group set up by Deputy Owen? It is long overdue and might bring some sense of order and co-ordination to the Prison Service.
The Prison Service Bill is due next year. The memorandum on the establishment of the interim prison authority is before the Government. The legislation is contingent on those decisions and will be introduced next year.
Given the achievement of the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Deputy de Valera, in presenting herself as the mother superior of the Poor Clares and if the figures published last night are borne out, will the Taoiseach reconsider the inclusion of the bridge between Connacht and Kerry?
That is not appropriate on the Order of Business.
On 10 July 1997 a task force was established to investigate the dumping of radioactive waste in the maritime area. Will the Taoiseach indicate when that task force will conclude its deliberations? It is a subject of concern to many people.
I understand that it will conclude shortly.
In view of the flagrant abuse of planning regulations which saw the demolition in Drumcondra, the Taoiseach's own constituency, of a house which was once the family home of James Joyce, will the Taoiseach give priority to the production of the Protection of Architectural Heritage Bill? When will that Bill come before us?
That Bill will be published before Christmas.
Has the Taoiseach any changes planned for the CSO? It does not know where to get the figures which the Government wants to give to EUROSTAT, which deals in regions rather than in counties. I am reminded by the fox-hunting bugle mobile telephone of the Minister of State, Deputy Davern, to ask about the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill.
It was the first bars of Slievenamon.
I am just not as wired as the Deputy.
When will that Bill be published, given that the Minister said that she hopes to have it before Christmas? Will the Government be in a position to publish that legislation before Christmas?
The Wildlife (Amendment) Bill will be published early next year.
On the basis of promised legislation, does the Taoiseach still intend to introduce the Mental Health (Amendment) Bill early in the new year?
It is still hoped to introduce that legislation before Christmas.
Yesterday on the Order of Business the Taoiseach told me that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was considering making a presentation on the heads of a Bill on the human rights commission to the Committee on Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Is it not true that there is a responsibility on the Government to bring the heads of the Bill before the Committee on the Constitution and that not to do so would be in contravention of the British-Irish Agreement?
I answered this question yesterday, last week and the week before, and the answer remains the same. The Deputy asked me some weeks ago if, when the heads of the Bill were available, I would ask the Minister to bring them forth to the relevant committee of the House. I will do that. If the Deputy wants the heads of the Bill brought in front of another committee she should take it up with the Minister by way of a question.