Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 Mar 1999

Vol. 502 No. 1

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. a7, motion re Revised Estimates for Public Services; No. b7, Finance Bill, 1999, Financial Resolution; No. 33, Finance Bill, 1999 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; and No. 3, The British-Irish Agreement Bill, 1999 – Committee and Remaining Stages.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 11.30 p.m.; (2) No. a7 shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; (3) No. b7 shall be decided without debate; (4) the Report and Final Stages of No. 33 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 11.15 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; (5) the Committee and Remaining Stages of No. 3 shall be taken at 6 p.m. and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 9 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Foreign Affairs; and (6) the Dáil, on its rising on Thursday, 11 March 1999, shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 23 March 1999.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are six proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with item No. a7 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with item No. b7 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with item No. 33 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with item No. 3 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the Adjournment of the Dáil on Thursday agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

When the Dáil resumes on 23 March, as we have just agreed, will provision be made for a debate on the measures announced to deal with the housing crisis? In particular, will that debate be extended to include the public transport implications of these plans in view of the fact that if new houses are to be built there must be bus and train services for them? Clearly, this cannot be financed solely on the basis of borrowing by CIE. If there is a national housing emergency there is also a national transport emergency and they must be dealt with together. Will the Taoiseach agree to a debate on housing and its public transport implications?

The Taoiseach

I agree to that. I suggest that we should have such a debate after 25 March, on which date the strategic planning guidelines will be published. If we can take the debate immediately after that we could include all the aspects, including transport, housing, strategic planning and the density report.

Mr. J. Bruton

I do not wish to disagree with the Taoiseach's proposal which goes a good distance towards what I want, but the strategic planning guidelines, to which he referred, only relate to Dublin, they do not relate to the whole country. Clearly there is a housing, traffic and public transport crisis in the whole country. Will the Government table its views on the public transport, traffic and housing problems as they affect the whole territory of the State, not just the Dublin area?

The Taoiseach

The strategic planning guidelines are a very important aspect of the whole problem. As Deputy Bruton knows, the problem is a nationwide one but it is far more acute in Dublin. The difficulty is to try to get the supply in the greater Dublin area up and running. The Government will be glad to debate in the House the Bacon proposals on affordable housing, the density proposals and the transport proposals that have been published in the past few weeks.

Mr. Quinn

In respect of promised legislation, is the Taoiseach aware that the legislation to establish the human rights commission, which he makes fulsome reference to in today's edition of The Irish Times article, has not yet been discussed by the relevant committee of this House? Is he aware the heads of the Bill were not sent directly to the committee by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform but instead were laid in the Library of the House and the secretary of the committee had to request them. The chairman of the committee has not yet scheduled a discussion on them and the heads of the draft legislation have not yet been circulated to members of the committee. As I speak, there are no proposals for this matter to be dealt with. Since the Taoiseach is responsible for promised legislation and its introduction in this House through whatever Department has responsibility, what precise steps will he take to ensure this matter is advanced so that the assertion in today's edition of The Irish Times correlates with the truth, which is not the case at the moment?

The Taoiseach

As I said on a number of occasions in the House, as soon as the heads of that Bill are ready they should be debated by the committee. That is my intention and that is what should happen. As far as I am concerned, these matters are to be debated within the two relevant committees, which I promised some weeks ago to Deputy McManus.

Mr. Quinn

I do not doubt the Taoiseach's goodwill in this respect, but I have to challenge his competence in pursuing the matter. The responsible Department did not communicate with the committee in question. The secretary of the committee had to seek the heads of the Bill. We are not talking about draft legislation at this stage but the heads of the Bill, its early stages. The Bill specifically excludes mention of the European Convention on Human Rights. As far as I know, the Taoiseach does not appear to have contacted the chairman who is responsible for ordering the business of that committee. Either the Government is serious, in accordance with what the Taoiseach said here yesterday, about moving all the measures over which we have control to advance the Good Friday Agreement or it is not. This is a classic example.

I remind the Taoiseach that the counterpart body in Northern Ireland has now been established and is operational. We have yet to discuss the heads of a Bill for draft legislation. It appears the Government is not serious about moving on the areas in which we have exclusive control.

The Taoiseach

The Government is committed to establishing a human rights commission and to examining the question of the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights. I stated on 17 February last before the two committees, Justice, Equality and Women's' Rights and the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution, that the heads of the Bill were available. I will inquire as to what happened but as far as I was concerned they were available for discussion.

Mr. Quinn

May I ask a question?

An Ceann Comhairle

A very brief question, please. We cannot deal much more with it on the Order of Business.

Mr. Quinn

I agree. This afternoon we will take Committee Stage of a major Bill. The Taoiseach does not seem to know what is happening inside his Government. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should confine himself to questions.

Mr. Quinn

How many members of that committee in the backbenches are aware that these items have not yet been discussed?

An Ceann Comhairle

A question Deputy, please.

Mr. Dempsey

Has the Leader of the Labour Party members on the committee?

Mr. Quinn

The Government controls the committee. Will the Taoiseach meet the chairman of the committee and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law reform and ensure this matter is scheduled as an item of priority and that it will be discussed?

The Taoiseach

I have no difficulty in doing that. Deputy Quinn is not asking me to move the heads away from the Government and to regulate the work of the committees. There are about 20 committees and I will not do that. I promised Deputy McManus many months ago that I would get these heads cleared and would ask the committees to deal with them and I have done that.

Mr. Quinn

Does the Taoiseach realise that did not happen? The Minister just laid them in the Oireachtas Library. He has not done the job the Taoiseach asked him to do.

The Taoiseach

I do not know why the committees have not done it but I will ask the chairman and the committees.

Mrs. Owen

It would appear the Michael McDowell group, the group examining how well companies comply with company law, has now reported to the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment on company compliance. Is new legislation recommended in that report? Nobody here has seen the report but we may read about it in the newspapers. Does the Minister intend to introduce legislation to establish a companies regulator supremo as a result of that report? When will we see the report?

The Taoiseach

I understand the report will be published next week. The company (No. 2) Bill is due in April and a companies (amendment) Bill will be ready early this year, I hope in the next month or so.

Mrs. Owen

Will that legislation include some of the recommendations from this report?

The Taoiseach

Yes.

Mr. Higgins (Mayo)

Four weeks ago in the wake of the fall-out from the Detective Garda Jerry McCabe murder trial where there was evidence of gross witness intimidation,—

An Ceann Comhairle

There is a parliamentary question on that subject today so we cannot anticipate—

Mr. Higgins (Mayo)

Both the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform promised urgent emergency legislation to deal with witness intimidation.

An Ceann Comhairle

A question has been tabled. I could rule this out because we cannot anticipate questions that will be dealt with later today.

Mr. Higgins (Mayo)

It is in order on the Order of Business to ask—

An Ceann Comhairle

There is a parliamentary question on the subject today and we cannot anticipate questions that are ordered.

Mr. J. Bruton

Question No. 44 relates to the intimidation of the witnesses only in the Garda McCabe case, it does not relate to witnesses in general.

An Ceann Comhairle

As the Deputy knows, supplementary questions are usually allowed. There is a limited time available for the Order of Business and it should not be used up by anticipating questions that are on today's Order Paper and will be dealt with today.

Mr. Higgins (Mayo)

What I am doing is perfectly in order. I am asking about legislation that was repeatedly promised in this House over the past four weeks – the legislation dealing with witness intimidation. I am asking a specific question—

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy ask the specific question?

Mr. Higgins (Mayo)

—in relation to the happenings yesterday where a key witness in a manslaughter charge was—

An Ceann Comhairle

As the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will answer questions this evening, the Deputy should resume his seat and maybe he will get his opportunity to pursue this on Supplementary Questions this afternoon.

Mr. Higgins (Mayo)

We may not reach it.

An Ceann Comhairle

It should be reached as it is on the Order Paper. The Deputy is preventing some of his colleagues from asking questions that are in order on the Order of Business. I have ruled on that matter and we cannot anticipate what questions will be dealt with.

Mr. J. Bruton

When is the legislation on witness intimidation to be introduced?

The Taoiseach

The Minister has stated that he will establish a witness security programme. He announced that he proposed to bring forward the new legal provisions on witness protection in the context of the amendments to the Criminal Justice Bill. Among those measures to be brought forward is a new statutory offence specifically targeted at intimidation of witnesses with a penalty of up to ten years imprisonment. That will be brought forward in the context of the Criminal Justice Bill.

Mr. M. Higgins

Go raibh maith agat a Cheann Comhairle. Os rud é gur tógadh cás cúirte in aghaidh na Roinne agus gur éirigh leis an duine a thóg an cás i leith cúrsaí tithíochta sa Ghaeltacht táimid ag fanacht ar reachtaíocht–Housing Gaeltacht (Amendment) Bill. Tá an Bille sin geallta agus tá sé ráite sa chlár rialtais go mbeidh sé ar fáil i lár na bliana. Cathain a bheidh an reachtaíocht sin ar fáil dúinn?

The Taoiseach

Go luath sa bhlian seo.

Mr. M. Higgins

I had better change at this point for my own sake. I am not clear what "early in the year" means in either language in that Department.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy has asked me about this on a number of occasions. Work on the Bill is well advanced and I hope it will be available shortly. If the Deputy needs a date I will try to get it for him, but what I have said is correct.

Mr. G. Mitchell

Other Members of the House will be aware that we have a serious problem with fascism in this city. Yesterday in my constituency people who appoint themselves judge, jury and executioner shot a man who was a witness in a trial. Can that legislation be brought before the House sooner rather than later because what is taking place in this city—

An Ceann Comhairle

The question has been asked and was answered. We cannot develop the matter as we are on the Order of Business. The Deputy has other ways to raise this matter.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

That question was already asked and was answered by the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

It is being treated as a matter of urgency. As I said in reply to Deputy Bruton, the Minister hopes to bring his legislation forward in the coming weeks.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): When I asked the Taoiseach last week for a debate on the question of genetic engineering of crops and vegetables and its effect on the environment and possible health effects, he said it would take place this week, but it is not in the schedule. When will that debate be rescheduled?

Against a background of chronic and escalating exploitation by rackrenting landlords and the naked displays of greed in the private rented sector, when will legislation be brought forward to control rents and give security of tenure to those in private rented accommodation? Does the Taoiseach understand the dismay he caused to people by yesterday's commitment to merely consider the commission in principle?

The Taoiseach

The debate on genetic modification has been rescheduled for 25 March. On security of tenure, the Minister of State said yesterday it was being discussed and he will outline the process in due course.

Mr. Kenny

This country is seriously out of line with international conventions, which are to be implemented by the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill. When will that be introduced? In 1987, work began on a Bill to protect national parks and historic buildings but the list of legislation published by the Government indicates it is not proceeding with that Bill because of other priorities. Could the Taoiseach clarify if work is being done on it and when it might see the light of day?

The Taoiseach

The Wildlife (Amendment) Bill is almost ready and I hope it is available at Easter. I do not have a date for the legislation on national parks and historic properties but work on it is proceeding.

Ms Cooper-Flynn

On the motion passed last evening in Private Members' time under Standing Order 56.3, was the matter properly before the House? The Standing Order reads:

A matter shall not be raised in the House in such an overt manner so that it appears to be an attempt by the Dáil to encroach on the functions of the courts or a judicial tribunal.

I ask to meet you today, a Cheann Comhairle, to discuss the matter further.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should give some notice of that matter but I will have it examined.

Mr. Finucane

Given the implementation bodies, which we discussed yesterday, will the Foyle Fisheries Commission Bill proceed? Last night you allowed me to raise an issue—

An Ceann Comhairle

I hope this is relevant to the Order of Business.

Mr. Finucane

It is. I acknowledge the response of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and I know the Taoiseach is interested in this matter, which concerns a 100 year old man named Mr. William Geary. I ask the Cabinet to expedite the process.

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter is not in order.

The Taoiseach

To respond to the first matter, the Foyle Fisheries Commission Bill is proceeding but will be subject to the implementation bodies under the British-Irish Agreement.

Mr. Gilmore

Ambiguous statements have been made about amending landlord and tenant legislation. Has the Government promised to amend such legislation to provide protection to tenants? Does the Government intend to use the Finance Bill, before the House today, to give effect to the tax allowance measures recommended in the second Bacon report, published yesterday?

The Taoiseach

The Minister and the Minister of State said they would examine this matter to see how best it can be done. A definite promise has not been made but as soon as the examination is completed the Government will make a decision.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): The Government should get off the fence, it is a desperate situation.

Mr. Gilmore

This matter has been under examination for some time. When does the Taoiseach expect the examination to be completed and when will tenants in private rented accommodation know whether the Government will introduce legislation to provide protection to them?

The Taoiseach

As soon as possible.

Mr. Quinn

Arising from last night's motion which was passed by the House without a vote, has the Chair consulted the Clerk of the Dáil as to when it will be conveyed to the sole member of the tribunal?

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand it has already been conveyed.