Denis Naughten
Ceist:36 Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Education and Science the proposals, if any, he has to strengthen guidance counselling in schools in view of the increasing demands on this service. [8174/99]
Priority Questions. - Guidance Counselling.
I am aware of the increasing demands being made on the guidance service. The amount and complexity of careers and educational information to be managed and disseminated has increased greatly in recent years. In addition, changes in society have led to an increase in the demand from students for individual personal counselling.
My Department is committed to improving its support for the guidance service, subject to the availability of resources. Every second level school in the free education scheme has an ex-quota allocation of posts or hours for the purpose of guidance. I recently announced a significant improvement in this provision. At present, provision ranges from two full additional posts in the largest schools to 2.2 hours per week in the smallest schools. With effect from the beginning of the next school year, a minimum allocation of eight hours per week for guidance will be provided to all second level schools in the free education scheme, however small. That allocation will be ring-fenced.
My Department's policy is that guidance should be an integral and important part of the whole programme offered by each second level school. An outline of how to develop a school plan for guidance is currently being prepared for inclusion in the guidelines for school development planning. These guidelines will be issued by September 1999. The pilot phase of whole school evaluation is practically complete. It is intended that a review of policy and practice in guidance and counselling will be included in the next phase. This process will be supportive of the work of guidance counsellors and will help to consolidate the position of guidance and counselling within the educational system.
Other recent developments in my Department which will strengthen the guidance service include the establishment of the National Educational Psychological Service Agency which will provide guidance counsellors with advice and support on individual casework and on general issues to do with counselling; the renewal of the contract of the National Centre for Guidance in Education, a specialist agency of my Department established to support the guidance service; and the development by the NCTE, in consultation with the national Centre for Guidance in Education, of a dedicated package of information technology support for guidance counsellors. This support package is currently being formulated and will include incareer development for all guidance counsellors; the provision of ICT software materials on guidance; the funding of innovative guidance projects under the IT2000 Schools Integration Project and the development of a careers software library in education centres.
To be able to plan systematically for the future, my Department will initiate during the current school year a systematic programme audit of the guidance service. This will involve, among other things, a review of the numbers of guidance counsellors in the system and the hours and other resources available for guidance in schools. The data gathered will help to inform future allocation of resources for guidance.
I thank the Minister for his reply. Does he agree that guidance in second level schools is inadequate? This can be seen from the recent CAO statistics. Some 6,000 applications were returned to students who failed to fill them in correctly. There were basic mistakes in filling in names, addresses and dates of birth. The guidance service in second level schools is overstretched at present and is unable to meet the demands of final year pupils going on to third level colleges. Does the Minister agree that some of the 6,500 young people who drop out of the first year of college courses do so because of inadequate guidance they received at second level?
I do not agree with the Deputy's final point. I accept that the guidance service has not recovered from the drastic cutbacks imposed in the early 1980s which led to a significant reduction in the number of career guidance teachers available in schools of a certain size, particularly those with fewer than 600 pupils. The service has not fully recovered its strength.
There is a need for an extensive audit of what is happening in the area of guidance in second level schools. This will determine the provision to schools and how they are using it. The Department has received reports from guidance counsellors and others that the current provision is not being used exclusively for its intended purpose. The Department has decided in consultation with the Institute of Guidance Counsellors and the national centre for guidance to undertake a comprehensive audit of what is happening in the area. In the meantime, I have increased the number of hours available to small second level schools by allowing a basic minimum provision of eight hours to every secondary school. At present, the level is as low as two hours in some schools. It will be a minimum of eight hours from next September.
It is hoped that the audit will be completed by next September and prior to the next round of Estimates. We will then have a better idea of how to resource this area, if the best methodologies are being used and if the best approaches are being taken. The audit will be undertaken in con sultation with the Institute of Guidance Counsellors and all interested parties.
Is the Minister suggesting that none of the 6,500 young people who drop out of third level are given poor information prior to filling out their CAO application forms and end up doing courses about which they know nothing or in which they have no interest? Is the Minister suggesting that the lack of guidance counsellors at second level is not a factor in the number of students dropping out of third level?
Does the Minister agree that students doing the junior certificate or going into fifth year are losing out dramatically because guidance counsellors are concentrating on pupils who are leaving second level this year? Does the Minister agree that young people making subject choices for the leaving certificate and deciding whether they should do the applied or vocational leaving certificate course rather than the mainstream leaving certificate course are losing out? Students are not being encouraged to take up technical subjects because resources are not being provided for the guidance service.
We should be careful about overdramatising the situation and making such statements. The Deputy mentioned the attrition rate at third level. However, accurate and detailed statistics on this matter are not available. I am concerned about this and the Higher Education Authority has commissioned the Education Research Centre to carry out a detailed study on attrition rates in universities. The council of directors of institutes of technology has also commissioned the ERC to carry out a similar comprehensive study on attrition and the reasons for the current rates. However, in comparative terms, although the level is high, the rates are not out of step with other European countries. There is a need accurately to quantify the attrition rate.
Some pupils may leave third level early because of an inadequate guidance service at second level. However, the Deputy mentioned a figure of 6,500 and I do not accept that attrition is related only to career guidance at second level.
I agree, but guidance is a factor.
It is a much more complex issue and has much to do with what happens at third level. For example, the lack of a mentor system in many colleges and the lack of a proper approach to first year students are factors. The Department has, for the first time, secured specific funding for attrition rate initiatives in the institutes of technology. The Department has asked for proposals to allow it to make funding available to improve the situation, particularly for first year students in institutes of technology and universities.
The points commission research indicates that because students tend to fill in the fourth, fifth and sixth options on their CAO application forms, they end up taking that option although they may be unsuitable for it in terms of aptitude or because they do not like the course.
They are getting very little help at third level.
I agree.
It is a scandal.
The position will be redressed. The Government has taken a proactive approach and the institutions have been asked to make proposals in terms of a mentor system, etc.
The time for Priority Questions has concluded. Questions Nos. 37 and 38 will be taken in ordinary time.
In relation to the point raised by Deputy Higgins, I have received a note stating that, based on the September 1997 figures, 18 schools have fewer than ten pupils.
I thank the Minister.