Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 21 Apr 1999

Vol. 503 No. 4

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach:

It is proposed to take No. a8, Criminal Justice (No. 2) Bill, 1997 [Seanad] – instruction to committee; No. 29, Road Transport Bill, 1998 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 30, Criminal Justice (No. 2) Bill, 1997 [Seanad] – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 1, Local Elections (Disclosure of Donations and Expenditure) Bill, 1999 [Seanad] – Second Stage; No. 28, Solicitors (Amendment) Bill, 1998 [Seanad] – Second Stage (resumed).

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. a8 shall be decided without debate. Private Members' Business shall be No. 49, Radio and Television (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Second Stage (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Is the proposal for dealing with No. a8 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton:

Will the Taoiseach confirm he is willing to answer questions on the problems relating to the Sheedy case which arose in bodies under his aegis – the Office of the Chief State Solicitor and the administrative functions exercised by the Director of Public Prosecutions? Is the Taoiseach willing to answer questions on those matters as indicated last night by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform?

The Taoiseach:

I regularly answer questions about the Office of the Chief State Solicitor at Question Time and I would answer any such questions in the normal way. The Attorney General informed me this morning that he spoke with the Office of the Chief State Solicitor which intends compiling a report which will be laid before the House on questions from both the Hamilton and departmental reports in areas which affect it. It is hoped it will be completed tonight and definitely by tomorrow.

Mr. J. Bruton:

Will the Director of Public Prosecutions do likewise given that he was not represented at a crucial moment?

The Taoiseach:

I have no jurisdiction to say what the DPP will do.

Mr. J. Bruton:

Is it the case the Attorney General has power under the Act establishing the DPP to consult him on certain matters? Would it not be appropriate for that to happen in this case?

The Taoiseach:

I am not answerable nor would I attempt to answer for the DPP and neither can the Attorney General.

Mr. Quinn:

There has been a systems failure and we have heard an incomplete description of how it happened. The report to which the Taoiseach referred, which is being prepared and which will be laid before the House, will perhaps complete the description, but there is no guarantee of that. The Office of the Chief State Solicitor comes under the remit of the Department of the Taoiseach and has a link, through the Office of the Attorney General, to the other institutions of State. We do not question the independence, rather the performance, which is a separate matter.

Does the Taoiseach agree that, for this matter to be resolved satisfactorily so that it is not repeated, the unanswered questions need to be answered and that the Taoiseach, rather than his colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who last night handed him the responsibility, is the person to give the answers to those questions when he has them?

The Taoiseach:

I answer questions regularly about the Office of the Chief State Solicitor. If there are other questions people want to ask about the DPP and they are on the record of the House, all I can do is make him aware of them. I am not answerable for the Director of Public Prosecutions. I said with regard to matters in the Hamilton and Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform reports concerning the Office of the Chief State Solicitor that it will compile its own report on the matter and lay it before the House as soon as possible.

Mr. J. Bruton:

There is a measure of answerability on the part of the Taoiseach for the DPP, not for individual cases but for the general administration of the office. The Taoiseach might wish to check that because he will find he has a measure of accountability for that office.

The Taoiseach:

For general policy.

Mr. J. Bruton:

The DPP spends public money and the Minister for Finance is responsible for the Vote of the DPP. Members of the Government are answerable to a degree for the office, not for prosecutorial decisions in individual cases but if there is a systems failure.

Mr. Quinn:

Does the Taoiseach agree that general policy requires that the affairs which occurred because of a systems failure should not occur again? Does his Department have legislative proposals to ensure the operation of the relevant offices, including the independent Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, are restructured to avoid a repetition of this incidence of systems failure?

The Taoiseach:

In the general policy area, we must take account of all matters highlighted in the Hamilton and departmental reports and Ms Justice Susan Denham's report of last autumn. The Attorney General had a substantial input in the latter. He was involved in those discussions. I understand the Chief Justice, Mr. Hamilton, will be involved in the committee to be set up on foot of that report. These are matters of which we must take account and we must ensure all recommendations are fully implemented to avoid a recurrence of the recent events.

Mr. Quinn:

To allow us all to work towards ensuring these matters do not recur, will the Taoiseach give an undertaking to publish the Denham report of 28 November last which is not yet in the public domain and which could perhaps constructively inform debate?

The Taoiseach:

Yes. I do not know the date but I am aware that arrangements were being made a week ago to finalise the report so that it could be published. I will advise the Deputy but I hope it will be very shortly.

Mr. Howlin:

To finalise it?

The Taoiseach:

The Department is making arrangements to publish the report.

Mr. Howlin:

What is meant by finalised?

The Taoiseach:

I am not writing it so I do not know.

Mr. J. Bruton:

On the Order of Business yesterday the Taoiseach indicated he would be happy to see the Select Committee on Justice, Equality and Women's Rights examine the unanswered questions arising from the handling of the Sheedy case. Will he indicate when he will introduce any necessary amendment to the orders of reference of the committee to enable it to get answers to these questions, especially the "why" questions?

The Taoiseach:

As I indicated yesterday, I believe the committee should proceed with its work. If it has difficulties we will have to consider them. It has a substantial amount of evidence to work with, including the detailed report of the Chief Justice, the most senior member of the Judiciary. That report involved other judges and personnel and contained many appendices. The committee also has for consideration one of the most detailed departmental reports I have seen in over 20 years as a Member of this House and it will also have the report of the Chief State Solicitor. If other matters arise we should look at them but in the meantime the committee has much to work on. Whether people will appear before the committee or whether the committee will compel them to appear are matters for the committee.

Mr. J. Bruton:

Despite the publication of all that information there are still many unanswered questions.

The Taoiseach:

I am not too sure if it will be possible to get to the end of them.

Mr. J. Bruton:

Why did it all happen?

Mr. Finucane:

Why was it so important?

Mr. J. Bruton:

The crucial question is why?

Mr. Quinn:

With regard to the legislation the House is required to enact in respect of the Good Friday Agreement, we are obliged to introduce, and the Government is committed to doing so, the Irish Nationality and Citizenship (Amendment) Bill. Have the heads of the Bill been before the Government? If so, when will it be published?

The Taoiseach:

The heads of the Bill are approved and it is for priority drafting. The latest information is that it will be published this session.

Mr. Quinn:

On 22 May 1998 the people voted to amend the Constitution in a complex set of proposals which were conditional on other matters coming into effect. We are now one month away from the anniversary of that decision. If arrangements do not proceed in Northern Ireland the House will have to enact legislation to give effect to changes voted on in the referendum. Given the lamentable record of performance in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the incapability of the Minister to meet any of the timetables set out in his legislative programme, will the Taoiseach ensure that another section of Government has responsibility on a contingency basis to have the legislation drafted?

The Taoiseach:

I have already indicated that the Bill should be published in this session. Over the years more legislation has been brought forward from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, especially under this Minister, than anywhere else.

Mr. Gormley:

On the Order of Business yesterday the Taoiseach made a serious allegation against me when he accused me of misleading the House. Will he follow the courageous example of Deputy Owen and apologise for that remark and withdraw it? I said the Taoiseach had done a U-turn on a promise to hold a referendum on Partnership for Peace.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy can find another way to address his concern. I call on Deputy Joe Higgins.

Mr. Gormley:

Just one moment.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Chair has called Deputy Joe Higgins. Deputy Gormley cannot dictate to the Chair.

Mr. Gormley:

Will the Taoiseach make time available to debate Partnership for Peace?

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should resume his seat.

Mr. Gormley:

Will you ask the Taoiseach?

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy cannot dictate to the Chair. He should resume his seat. I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

Mr. Gormley:

The Taoiseach did a U-turn on this issue. Will he make time available for a debate?

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy must resume his seat. This is the Order of Business.

Mr. Gormley:

The Taoiseach is a disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle:

I will have to call on the Deputy to leave the House if he does not resume his seat. I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): In the course of the controversy over the Judiciary the Government said it was very concerned to ensure that the administration of justice was equal for all the people. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs will introduce legislation to double the pension entitlements of all workers who have to take early retirement?

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Minister will be answering questions in the Dáil today.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): I asked if all the people, especially those on low wages—

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy may only ask questions on promised legislation, not on hypothetical situations.

Mr. D. Ahern:

What about the Deputy's £28,000?

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): I do not have a double pension.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe:

Will the Taoiseach indicate who has responsibility for making arrangements for the reception of refugees from Kosovo? What arrangements have been put in place? I have been told there have been no consultations with health boards or local authorities.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The matter was discussed at Question Time yesterday.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe:

Is this an indication of a lack of commitment by the Government to the commitments made to receive refugees from Kosovo? What plan has the Government made in that regard?

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should put down a parliamentary question. It is not in order.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe:

It is.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy has other ways to raise the matter.

Ms O'Sullivan:

A Women's Aid report published today indicates that only 3 per cent of those who break barring orders receive a sentence. The Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Mary Wallace, has indicated rightly that there is a need for legislation in this area. I understand there is a miscellaneous provisions Bill in preparation in the Department that will address the issue. Will the Taoiseach indicate if there is promised legislation to address the issue of domestic violence and dealing especially with those who break barring orders?

The Taoiseach:

The report has just been published. I understand the Minister of State is looking at the issue and I am sure she will report on it when she has completed her deliberations.

Ms O'Sullivan:

In view of the findings of the report does the Taoiseach not agree that the matter is urgent?

The Taoiseach:

The Minister of State has indicated that.

Mr. Finucane:

I have raised the case of Mr. William Geary in this House on many occasions. When will the Cabinet make a decision on this matter?

An Ceann Comhairle:

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Finucane:

The man is 100 years old. I hope the matter is addressed soon.

Mr. Sargent:

With regard to promised legislation, will the Taoiseach respond to the needs of people working in the National Social Services Board who are anxious to know about the legislation concerning Comhairle and the many people depending on its services? It was indicated in February that the Bill would be published in this session. Given that summer is approaching, will the Taoiseach indicate what the delay is in publishing the Bill?

The Taoiseach:

The heads of the Bill have been approved but the drafting has been delayed because of other priorities. It will be available this year but it is unlikely to be this session.

Mr. Sargent:

Does the Taoiseach mean this session or this year?

The Taoiseach:

I said not this session but this year.

Mr. Sargent:

It was indicated that the legislation would be published in this session.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy cannot argue the point now. He asked a question and got an answer. I call Deputy Barrett.

Mr. Sargent:

The Taoiseach should not mislead the House.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should not be disorderly and should resume his seat.

Mr. Sargent:

I am looking for order.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should resume his seat.

Mr. Barrett:

Will the Taoiseach give priority to the disability legislation, which I understand will set out the rights of persons with a disability together with the means of redress for those whose rights are denied? Will he indicate if, as a millennium project, we could provide, once and for all through a capital programme, sufficient residential places for people, especially those with mental handicap? Let us get rid of this problem once and for all. We can do this by passing this legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy may not develop the point. He may only ask a question about the legislation.

The Taoiseach:

I note what the Deputy said. The work on the preparation of the Bill has been deferred because priority has been given to the National Disability Authority Bill. As soon as that Bill is completed, the Department will proceed with the disabilities Bill.

Mr. Barrett:

Will the Taoiseach ask the Department to ensure that the disabilities Bill will be passed this year so that we could consider that project as a millennium project, which would be a great credit to this country?

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy has made that point.

Mr. Barrett:

It would solve the problem of the lack of residential places.

An Ceann Comhairle:

We cannot discuss the matter in detail.

Mr. Gilmore:

The Bill to reform local government is on the list of Bills expected to be published this session. Does this mean the Bill will be published and considered by the House in advance of the local elections?

The Taoiseach:

This will be an enormous Bill with a few hundred sections in it. It will be drafted shortly. Whether it will be put through the Houses is another matter but the Minister is trying to do that.

Mr. Gilmore:

Is the Taoiseach indicating that there is some possibility that this legislation will be taken before the local elections?

Mr. Quinn:

—and enacted?

The Taoiseach:

I know the Minister would like to achieve that but he has not given a commitment on it. There are four tranches of this Bill and the Minister is endeavouring to at least have all of the work on it done before the local elections. It is unlikely that it will be passed by then.

An Ceann Comhairle:

We cannot deal further with the matter.

Mr. Gilmore:

Will the Bill at least be published before the local elections?

The Taoiseach:

I cannot be certain of that.

Mr. Gilmore:

Did we postpone the local elections for nothing?

Mrs. T. Ahearn:

In view of this morning's disappointing statement by the Taoiseach that the disability Bill has been deferred, is the report by the monitoring committee on the implementation of the recommendations of the Report on the Status of People with Disabilities also deferred? It was promised to be published by the end of February and it is almost May.

The Taoiseach:

I stated that both of these are priority Bills. The team working on them is trying to complete first, the National Disability Authority Bill. As soon as that is completed, they will move to the next one.

Mr. Rabbitte:

On a point of order, why did your office contact me yesterday to kindly advise me that a matter I raised on the Adjournment was not permissible because the dispute involving the scaffolders was unofficial? I put it to you that there is no precedent in this House. A trade dispute is a trade dispute whether it is official or unofficial. I put it to you that that is a wrong ruling. With the utmost respect, I ask you to reconsider that.

In addition, it is difficult from this corner of the bench to catch your eye on any matter even when there is a precedent.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should not pursue the matter now.