Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 29 Jun 1999

Vol. 507 No. 2

Order of Business.

Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources (Dr. Woods)

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 33, Electricity Regulation Bill, 1998, Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No 34, Statements on the report of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Women's Rights on matters arising from the early release from prison of Mr. Philip Sheedy.

It is also proposed notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 11.30 p.m.; pursuant to Standing Order 78(3), the Dáil shall waive its instruction that not more than two select committees shall meet to consider a Bill on any given day in the case of the proposed meetings of the Select Committee on Education and Science to consider the Qualifications (Education and Training Bill), 1999 [Seanad], today and the Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine to consider the Minerals Development Bill, 1999 [Seanad], tomorrow; the Report and Final Stages of No. 33 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 9.30 p.m. by one Question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Public Enterprise; and the proceedings on No. 34, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 11.30 p.m. tonight and the following arrangements shall apply: the opening statement of the Vice Chairperson of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Women's Rights and of the main spokespersons for the Government, the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; the statement of each other member called upon shall not exceed five minutes; and the Vice Chairperson of the joint committee shall be called upon to make a statement in reply not exceeding five minutes. Private Members' Business shall be No. 71 – Motion re: Proposal for a National Infrastructure and Settlement Plan.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are four proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to?

Mr. J. Bruton

Before agreeing to the Order of Business, will the Minister indicate if he would be willing to give an undertaking that the Government will not guillotine the Immigration Bill through its remaining Stages? If he can give such an assurance, we on this side of the House will do everything in our power not to be unreasonable in prolonging the debate or to filibuster. It is important that the provisions of the Bill are discussed in a thorough way. The Government proposal to guillotine the Bill on Committee Stage has been withdrawn from today's Order Paper. Assuming there is goodwill on all sides, will the Minister give an assurance that no attempt will be made to guillotine the Bill on Committee Stage?

Dr. Woods

I thank the Opposition spokespersons for their co-operation on the Bill. The Government is anxious that it pass Committee Stage by agreement. There are a large number of amendments and three hours have been allocated to Committee Stage today and four hours tomorrow. Discussions will take place among the Whips this evening about providing extended time tomorrow to try to ensure the Bill is completed in the normal way.

Mr. J. Bruton

The problem is that the Government, as unfortunately happens with Departments—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot discuss this matter. It is before the Whips.

Mr. J. Bruton

I do not wish to cause disorder, but the Government has produced a raft of amendments – the equivalent of a new Bill – at the last minute. This amounts to laziness in the public service. They could have been introduced weeks ago.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the matter. It is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Mr. J. Bruton

I have no doubt the Minister has nothing to do with this. It amounts to inefficiency in the public service.

Mr. Quinn

The procedure adopted by the Government is unacceptable. I have just been informed by our spokesperson, who has come from the select committee, that very slow and tortuous progress is being made. I do not expect the Minister to be aware of that. There is no way Committee Stage of the Bill can be concluded between now and 1.50 p.m. tomorrow.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot have a discussion on the Bill. It is not on the Order Paper for today. I understand the Whips are discussing the matter.

Mr. J. Bruton

We wish to avoid a row tomorrow by discussing the matter today.

Mr. Quinn

After dealing with items 1 and 2, we will be asked to give our assent to a guillotine motion on Committee Stage of a Bill.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There is no such proposal on the Order Paper today. The item referred to by the Deputy has been withdrawn. It does not arise today. There were originally five proposals; there are now four. There is no proposal to deal the Immigration Bill.

Mr. Quinn

Has the proposal regarding the Immigration Bill been withdrawn?

Dr. Woods

Yes. It has been replaced with the proposal on No. 33. Discussions will take place this evening on the extra time that can be provided to deal with Committee Stage of the Immigration Bill.

Mr. Quinn

The documentation to which the Minister refers has not come into my possession. Will he clarify what is now proposed in respect of the Immigration Bill?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister made four proposals on the Order of Business. There is no proposal on the Immigration Bill. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to?

Mr. J. Bruton

I do not want to agree to the Order of Business unless I get an assurance that there will be no guillotine tomorrow on the Immigration Bill. We will not delay matters, but we want an assurance that all sections of the Bill will be discussed. We reformed the Dáil to provide for this.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to?

Dr. Woods

The Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the Labour Party will appreciate it is vital that the Immigration Bill is passed by the House before the summer recess. We are prepared to provide any extra time we can to expedite matters and discussions on this will be held this evening.

Mrs. Owen

We are seeking a commitment that there will be no guillotine on the Immigration Bill.

Question put: "That the proposal for the late sitting be agreed to."

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.

Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt. Brennan, Séamus.

Tá–continued

Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Coughlan, Mary.Cullen, Martin.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.

Kitt, Michael.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Enright, Thomas.Farrelly, John.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.

Flanagan, Charles.Gilmore, Éamon.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael.Kenny, Enda.McDowell, Derek.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Quinn, Ruairí.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Ferris.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with the exercise of Standing Order 78(3) in relation to the Select Committees agreed?

Mr. Quinn

Regarding the confusion which has arisen following the last minute changes made by the Government to the Order of Business, which were not communicated to my office, there is a danger in this provision, and the one which probably will be before the House tomorrow, that the plenary session of the House is attempting to dictate to a committee when it should terminate its business. I ask the Minister to elaborate on the thinking behind this provision before a precedent is set which would enable the House from time to time to unilaterally dictate when a committee should terminate its business by way of a guillotine motion.

Dr. Woods

There is not a proposal for a guillotine motion before the House.

Mr. Quinn

The Minister knows that is not my point. He deliberately did not read into the record the information on the piece of paper he had in his hand. A proposal for a guillotine is being contemplated. It was altered twice in the last hour and it may surface again tomorrow depending on the outcome of discussions today. In relation to No. 2, on which the House may divide, is a precedent being established which will enable the House to dictate to committees when they should terminate their business? If the House votes in favour of this proposal, will a precedent be established which will validate a guillotine motion tomorrow morning?

Dr. Woods

This is a technical issue. Standing Orders provide for two committees to meet on a particular day. The only purpose of this is to allow a third committee to meet on a particular day. Deputy Bruton raised the issue of the completion of the Bill. This matter is still being discussed and I understand that while the House was dividing, the committee made further arrangements to provide for extra time tomorrow for the Bill along the lines we discussed earlier. It is appreciated that the Bill must be completed this session.

Mr. Quinn

If agreement is not reached in the discussions between the members of the committee in respect of the Immigration Bill and the 16 page amendment which was finally provided by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform after a two year delay, what is the Government's intention regarding terminating the business of the committee?

Mrs. Owen

The Government will guillotine it.

Dr. Woods

With goodwill on all sides, this will bring into operation and fully implement the Refugee Act, 1996, which was introduced by the Opposition parties when they were in Government. I hope that in common with the Government, they want it brought into operation before the summer recess.

Mrs. Owen

We have waited for two years for it.

Dr. Woods

I hope that can be achieved on the basis of co-operation.

Mr. Shatter

It should not be rushed. It is too serious an issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a protracted discussion on the matter.

Mr. Quinn

I presume there will be a guillotine motion before the House tomorrow, notwithstanding the totally unsatisfactory nature of the legislation.

Dr. Woods

I do not want to pre-empt any discussions.

Mr. J. Bruton

The committee is being asked to act, subject to a guillotine.

Mr. Shatter

That is correct.

Mrs. Owen

The sword of Damocles is hanging over it.

Dr. Woods

The committee is currently arranging extra time to try to cover the Bill.

Mr. Shatter

It is indicative of the lack of sensitivity the Government has shown on the refugee issue. It has shown an appalling lack of sensitivity.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with the exercise of Standing Order 78(3) in relation to Select Committees agreed?

Question put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 33 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 34 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Quinn

There are two outstanding Bills which the beleaguered Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has yet to bring forward. The first relates to human rights, which is a requirement under the Good Friday Agreement. It was the subject of embarrassment for the Minister of State, Deputy Flood, in Dublin Castle at the weekend and gave rise to the criticism of Professor Brice Dickson, the chief commissioner of the human rights commission in Northern Ireland. In view of the lamentable failure of the Government to bring forward legislation as distinct from circulating the heads of a Bill, when will the legislation be introduced?

Regarding legislation on our obligations under the Good Friday Agreement, when will the amendments to the 1956 Irish Nationalities and Citizenships Acts be brought forward? Will the Minister explain what, if anything, is going on in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform?

Dr. Woods

I understand the latter Bill will be introduced in the next session. The legislation regarding the human rights commission was cleared by the Government today and will be published shortly.

Mrs. Owen

When will the Government make a decision on giving work permits to people who are seeking asylum in Ireland?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

The legislation was again promised by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment last week. The dispute with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is ongoing. There is a demonstration today outside Leinster House by many eminently qualified people who are seeking asylum and who cannot work. They are willing to work in the economy. When will a decision be made? When will the legislation be introduced?

Dr. Woods

Early next year.

Mrs. Owen

That is ridiculous.

Mr. Shatter

It is ridiculous. The IDA is trying to recruit people in America with the same skills as those demonstrating outside Leinster House.

Mrs. Owen

FÁS has sent a representative to Europe to try to seduce people to come to Ireland to work while there are people here who are willing to work. The legislation was promised before 2000.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume her seat.

Dr. Woods

If the legislation is available before that date, it will be introduced.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot have a discussion on the matter. The Minister answered the Deputy's question.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Indecision is the hallmark of this Administration.

Mr. Connaughton

Will the Minister ask the Minister for Agriculture and Food if the proposed animal health restrictions on the export of live cattle to the Continent will come into effect on 1 July, as planned? Is the Minister or the Government aware of the severity of these measures? If they are imposed, no live Irish cattle will be exported for the rest of the year.

Dr. Woods

What legislation is the Deputy querying?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Animal health regulations, which is not strictly in order.

Dr. Woods

The Deputy is raising the implementation of legislation, as I understand it. I will ask the Minister to communicate with him.

Mr. Rabbitte

When will the indexation of fines Bill be published?

Dr. Woods

Work on this legislation is at a preliminary stage of examination in the Department. It is not possible to indicate a date at this stage.

Mrs. Owen

It will be 2000 or later.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Which millennium?

Mr. D. Ahern

Deputy Owen will not introduce it.

Mr. J. Bruton

What is the present position of the criminal justice Bill, which was recommended following the strategic management study of the Garda Síochána, and of the Garda Síochána Bill? Gardaí are resigning and the number in the force is falling continually, while reports indicate that murders are being committed at the rate of one per day.

Dr. Woods

The criminal justice Bill on the Garda SMI is expected in late 1999. The figures for recruitment into the Garda and the number of gardaí, which appeared recently in newspapers, are difficult to understand. Deputies know that some 500 gardaí are being recruited at present.

Mr. Barrett

Some 2,500 gardaí are leaving.

Dr. Woods

That is totally unsubstantiated. The annual figure for retirements from the Garda Síochána is approximately 400 and the information available to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform is that 1999 will be the same as any other year. The Government's aim, during its lifetime, was to set the force's strength at 12,000. The competition may recruit 500 members, which will bring it to a level of—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot have a discussion on this matter. This is not Question Time, the matter was raised purely as a query on the Order of Business.

Mr. Rabbitte

This is far more helpful than the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on Question Time.

Mr. Quinn

Since alterations have already been made to the ordering of Government time, does the Government intend making time available this week to take note of its nominee to the European Commission?

Dr. Woods

Not to my knowledge at this stage.

Mr. J. Bruton

It should be someone with a doctorate in agriculture, not a mere B.Ag.

Ms Fitzgerald

In our Celtic tiger economy, a transport service for the disabled, which has run for five years, was closed on 9 June because of lack of funding. Will the Minister ensure a Government Department takes responsibility for investigating why this is happening?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business. It was the subject of an Adjournment Matter last Thursday.

Dr. Woods

There will be a meeting at 5 p.m. today.

Ms Fitzgerald

Will the Minister take responsibility?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume her seat.

Mr. Sargent

I have questions about two Bills which were promised before the summer recess. Is the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill to be published, given our position in the dock in Europe on many such matters? Given the tragic information about suicide rates, the Government should give greater priority to the mental health Bill. Will it be published before the recess?

Dr. Woods

I understand the wildlife Bill is to be published this week. The mental health Bill will be published as soon as possible but not during this session.

Mr. Shatter

When will the report on the approach taken by health boards in the assessment of couples for adoption be laid before the House? It was prepared and, two weeks ago, approved by the Cabinet for publication. Perhaps the Minister could explain why it has not been published yet.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business but the Minister may have information.

Dr. Woods

I understand it is to be published shortly.

Mr. Shatter

When? We were told it would be published ten days ago.

Dr. Woods

I have no date.

Mr. Stagg

On 2 July 1998 the House passed the Firearms (Temporary Provisions) Bill, which gave tourists authority to bring in guns to destroy at will the wildlife mentioned by Deputy Sargent. At that time the Minister promised to set up a review group, which has now reported to him, and that by July this year he would have in place legislation to replace that temporary legislation. When will we see that legislation or, in its absence, will we need to repeal or re-enact the temporary legislation?

Dr. Woods

The Firearms (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1998, Continuance Order 1999 (S.I. No 189 of 1999), which provides for this, was signed by the Taoiseach on 22 June.

Mr. Stagg

When will we see the promised legislation, which was to replace the Act by July this year, to stop the scandalous position that tourists can bring guns into this country?

Dr. Woods

It is unlikely to appear by July this year.

Mr. Finucane

Will the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources clarify whether he or any of his senior officials in the minerals section of the Department have had discussions with senior management at Tara Mines regarding—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Rabbitte

On promised legislation and in respect of the dispute between the Minister for Finance and the Tánaiste, when will the Government publish the legislation to establish a new, single financial regulatory authority?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Has such legislation been promised?

Dr. Woods

The report was published recently and is being studied at present.

Mr. Gormley

I wish to raise the matter raised by Deputy Fitzgerald. The Minister indicated he wanted to reply—

Dr. Woods

I have already ruled that out of order. It was discussed on the Adjournment last Thursday.

Mr. J. Bruton

I ask the Leas-Cheann Comhairle if he would favourably consider overnight the possibility of raising that issue under Standing Order 31. Deputy Ahearn will put down such a motion.

Mr. Gormley

The Green Party will do the same.

Mr. Higgins (Dublin West)

The Government has been encouraging a virtual feeding frenzy surrounding the sale of shares in Telecom Éireann, a major public asset which is being privatised, and encouraging people to go into debt to buy them. Will the Government bring forward proposals which will protect these people if its Stock Market gamble goes wrong?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Higgins, do you have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mr. Higgins (Dublin West)

It is very appropriate in the interests of ordinary people.

Ms Fitzgerald

Will the Government introduce a motion before the end of the Dáil term in relation to Irish troops serving in Kosovo? This was mentioned as a possibility by the Taoiseach last week.

Dr. Woods

I am pleased to tell the House that the Government will introduce such a motion. It will be moved today.