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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 Nov 1999

Vol. 510 No. 4

Broadcasting Bill, 1999: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I wish to share my time with Deputy Timmins.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

It is important in this age of change in the art of communication that the broadcasting Acts are amended and updated to ensure the changed opportunities are maximised to their full potential. The technological development of communications systems is continuing at a rapid pace. These changes continue to have a profound effect on the quality of reception and, more importantly, on the quality of receipt due to the ever increasing capacity of systems, particularly digital television, to receive so many channel options. The Minister referred to the capacity of systems perceived previously as broadcasting platforms only to provide services for the information society age. The age of instant communication opens many doors, some of which are of great value while others have potential for negative influences on the progress of people, yet we must fight shy of indulging in the restriction or over-exercise of censorship. Getting the balance right is important. We must ensure that progress made in the technology area is maximised fully to the benefit of all the public. We must ensure equality of access and that the full range of services is available to all. We must not put artificial barriers in place to stop the most exciting adventure opportunity which is opening up to everyone, irrespective of age, but in opening these doors we must be prepared to face challenges and enable people to have a real choice.

We must ensure that our national broadcaster reflects the social and cultural values of the people but in doing so, the standard of production and the quality of presentation must be able to compete with that which is available on the multiplicity of other channels these modern broadcasting services provide. It is important that everyone realises the full capacity of television to educate and influence cultural change. The most simple television "soaps" are powerful shapers of attitudes in society and form the benchmark of standards which apply to everyday life. This powerful tool can have a very positive influence on how our nation develops. It is important that care and skill is encouraged in the production of the programmes provided by the national service.

Having account of the higher focus on pay per view, which is developing with the increased range of channels, it is important that RTE remains as a free to air channel with a full and diverse programme schedule which has something for everyone. No one must be excluded from reasonable access. The DTT platform must be available to both public and private broadcasters while also providing access to the Internet and other interactive services which may develop. We are dealing with a powerful weapon; the ability to change and influence public attitudes on a global scale while people sit in the comfort of their own homes. The technology revolution is but a simple television set which will now become the source of views, news, shopping, etc. We must not be afraid of the developments but ensure we harness them so that they may contribute to a better and more caring world.

Section 14 seeks objectivity and impartiality in news broadcasting. A recent trend in news delivery seems to be that the reporter decides to be the news generator, on occasions endeavouring to negotiate between unions and employers, pre-empting the work of the Labour Court and other professional negotiators. If this trend continues, it will lead to a sorry mess. There is a difference in news generation, news delivery and investigative reporting. They require different skills and abilities but, unfortunately, some people do not appear to have them.

This is a good opportunity to pay tribute to local radio. The people involved are doing an excellent job and they must be congratulated. Local radio allows good interaction with the community. It raises local issues and debates them. NEAR FM, in my constituency of Dublin North East, provides a valuable service to local representatives who use the radio to inform their constituents of what is happening in the community. It also allows them to interact with their constituents and obtain their views. I congratulate the people involved in North East Access Radio for the excellent programmes they air. Recently we had a prize-giving ceremony in Baldoyle for people from the local community who had set up an excellent facility in which people could train in computers, television appearances, etc. The entire ceremony was broadcast live on the local radio and it was greatly appreciated by those who participated in the courses and the public generally. Local radio is essential because matters which affect communities can be debated and it also gives local people an opportunity to air their views and perhaps influence public opinion.

Most Dublin Deputies complain about not having access to the Dublin media so I am delighted that the local radio is so kind to my colleague, Deputy Cosgrave. I am sure he provides them with an excellent service when he goes on air.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important Bill which seeks to address many issues that have arisen as a result of the rapid changes in broadcasting due to the advent of digital technology. Ultimately, the Bill should ensure that we have a competitive and independent broadcasting sector and that the viewers have greater choice and superior quality to that which they have experienced to date. While I welcome the publication of the Bill, I regret that it has taken so long to reach the floor of the House. It is a Bill which needs much discussion and many amendments will be required on Committee Stage to address its weaknesses.

RTE has provided an excellent service to the public for almost four decades and it has played a central role in the development of the State. One could argue whether it leads or follows, and the changes in society can be mirrored from Maggie and Benjy and the Morris Minor to Dick Moran and the drinks cabinet. A short time ago, topics now discussed on afternoon programmes on RTE 1, Network 2 or even TG4 would have brought the country to a standstill. They no longer even warrant comment. That is not necessarily a good thing as the screen image, in many cases, has led to a false perception.

The Minister rightly acknowledged that the major problem with legislating in this area is the pace and advance of technological change and development. The application of digital techniques will revolutionise broadcasting and due to these advances it is no longer possible to examine broadcasting in isolation as it is now converging with other forms of telecommunications and information services.

Radio and television are the most powerful mass media to which we have access, and it is imperative that the needs of economics and technology can be balanced with cultural and social needs to ensure that everyone will benefit from the proposed changes. While the commercial aspect is certainly important if the industry is to survive, it is essential that a positive as opposed to a negative influence is achieved. Quality, not quantity, is the essence. I regret to say I seldom watch television as the life of a politician is not conducive to such pleasures. We only have access to the indigenous channels in our household but on the occasions I have flicked through the channels on someone else's television, I am struck by the blandness of it all as there is only a slight variation in the programmes.

It is important that our viewers can gain access to material of a distinctive Irish character, and the history of RTE has shown that programmes of such nature often attract the biggest audiences. The general public is not very familiar with the way we run our broadcasting services and their only contact is the payment of the licence. I agree with the principle of this payment but we require a more transparent account of the way it is expended. The Bill does not achieve this and I hope this aspect can be addressed later on Committee Stage.

One of the aims of the Bill is to put in place a regulatory structure that allows private sector broadcasting and public broadcasters to co-exist in harmony. A level playing pitch is required to permit such a development. While I believe the private sector stations do not have a difficulty with the concept of the licence fee, they may on occasion be a little apprehensive as to the manner in which it is used. Perhaps that apprehension is well founded. It should not be used as an economic aid by the public broadcasters when they enter into competition with the private sector. A satisfactory system of accountability needs to be put in place to ensure this is so. State monopolies often do not benefit a service or an industry and the competition is to be welcomed. In the past few months, the growth of TV3's audience has resulted in RTE endeavouring to improve its product. Such changes are always welcome. TV3 has made a submission to the Minister's office, in which it has expressed concern about RTE's participation in the proposed Digico. TV3 claims this is inappropriate and may conflict with RTE's primary role as a public service broadcaster. I hope the Minister can address those concerns.

Under the Bill, TG4 will obtain an independence, with an obligation to provide news and current affairs programmes primarily in the Irish language. I am not sure this was the intention of the people who drove this project initially. However, perhaps economic reality has had a major influence. TG4 is to be congratulated on its broadcasting of the local football and hurling championships. It was a brave step which has been rewarded, as many viewers tune in on Sundays. My very young children show a far more imaginative response to TG4's Irish dance and music programmes than to the popcorn munching "Home and Away" or Bart Simpson.

The net result of digital terrestrial broadcasting will be better sound quality and clearer reception, irrespective of distance from the transmitter. I hope that will benefit some of my constituents in some townlands in Wicklow who cannot receive RTE 1 satisfactorily.

The Bill also restates the public service broadcasting remit under which RTE operates. The protocol to the Amsterdam Treaty recognised the need to preserve media pluralism, while at the same time addressing the democratic, social and cultural needs of each society. However, the public service remit in this Bill is, at best, hazy and needs to be more refined and defined.

The Minister detailed how the newly established Broadcasting Commission of Ireland shall draw up a scheme for the disbursement by it of a fund of £0.5 million, provided from the Exchequer, in respect of capital expenditure on transmission infrastructure incurred by local and community radio stations. In common with many of my colleagues, I will take this opportunity to plug my local radio station. I hope the commission will see fit to allocate some of this funding to East Coast Radio, which has gone to great lengths and expense to overcome transmission difficulties caused by the barrier of the Wicklow mountains.

I also welcome the repeal of a section of the Radio and Television Act, 1988, which enables the Independent Radio and Television Commission to impose a levy and income on independent broadcasters. Local radio provides a great service to a large number of people.

I may have missed it, but I was surprised there was no reference in the Minister's speech to the negative impact of over-exposure to television. While we all welcome the various advances in television, a booklet has been published in the US which advises children on how to use to best effect the time they spend in front of television, which contributes to obesity and so on. Attempts are being made in the US to draw up certain guidelines in that regard. I am not saying that will happen in this country, but there is a tendency now for double income families to place their children in front of the television. I ask the Minister to be aware of that. Perhaps she will, in conjunction with the Minister for Health and Children, try to track down that booklet and see if it could help our own practices.

The spokesman for my party, Deputy Kenny, inquired about Radio 4. We can access that station in my part of the country. I will have a chat with him afterwards about that.

I welcome the Bill. I have been following the debate and certain reservations have been expressed, many of which will be teased out on Committee Stage. It is interesting that so many politicians have contributed to this debate because we all know that the oxygen of publicity sustains us as politicians. We have a tremendous respect for not only television but local radio stations. Local radio stations have huge listenerships and have transformed the roles of many politicians in their local areas. The developments in that direction over the years must be appreciated, as must much of the good work the Independent Radio and Television Commission has done in its capacity as watchdog for the local radio stations. I am pleased the Bill is giving extra powers and strengths to the Independent Radio and Television Commission and that its function will be renamed.

Some time ago a deputation from the private radio stations met many politicians in this House. They were concerned that the television licence income was going exclusively to RTE and they stated that some subvention from that licence should go directly to the radio stations. The Minister is probably going some way in that direction in the Bill because she has indicated that the new Broadcasting Commission will not accept fees in the future from the local radio stations. This should help the financial base of those stations.

It would be remiss of me not to congratulate a local young journalist who won a national award recently, Joe Nash, who works for a local radio station in Limerick, 95FM. I wish him well in the future. The local radio stations have given a tremendous boost to the profession of journalism. They have created a lot of job opportunities and many people have progressed successfully within the local radio stations, with some of them moving to local newspapers and so on.

Those of us with MMDS or cable have access to a variety of channels. The current buzzwords are "digital", "terrestrial" and so on. Given the number of channels we will get in the future, extra vigilance will be required. This is a small country and it is understandable for RTE to look to the future and be concerned about its potential commercial revenue, given the competition which is likely to occur. Will the Minister provide alternative finance for stations such as RTE which will have a public mandate, probably similar to that of the BBC in Britain? It is heartening to be able to watch a film in its entirety on BBC without being interrupted by commercials. However, commercials are needed to sustain the livelihoods of those who work in these radio stations.

I welcome the positive direction of the Bill. I also welcome the retention of the complaints commission. It will be important to have a degree of vigilance when there is a dramatic expansion in the number of channels available. For example, the accessibility of pornographic channels would be a matter of concern to people in the wider community. We must have a watchdog to monitor the type of programmes received.

There are tremendous potential profits in this business. Recently Cablelink was sold for £535 million, which is a staggering amount of money. There must be a certain amount of profitability in the long-term in order for investors to become involved.

RTE has provided a very good service over the years. In recent times, TG4 has come of age, not necessarily in terms of its contribution to the Irish language, which was its important and dominant role, but in taking the responsibility to broadcast the DIRT hearings by the Committee of Public Accounts. A remarkable number of people told me they watched that with great interest. That did a great deal for the body politic, which has been besmirched to a degree by the tribunals going on outside this House. People could see at first hand the good work which politicians can do within the committee system. We must thank TG4 for helping us in that direction.

As the Minister knows, one does a great deal of preparation for Question Time, and even more when one is in Opposition. It is disappointing that Question Time is often not reported on "Oireachtas Report", or only a very small part of it. We must thank TG4, which broadcasts much of Question Time on an ongoing basis. That has also done a great deal for the credibility of politics because people can appreciate what we are doing here. Many people see empty seats in the Chamber when they look at television and do not understand what politicians actually do in the House. It is desirable that television helps in this regard, particularly TG4 and "Oireachtas Report".

It is interesting that we are debating broadcasting and the future role of television. Many people are concerned about developments in this area and the number of channels which will be available. In this regard we must be extra vigilant concerning the types of channels available. People will not accept some channels, particularly pornography channels, and we would all be concerned if matters progressed in that direction. I am pleased that there are mechanisms and protections in the legislation whereby people can lodge complaints with the Broadcasting Complaints Commission. I am glad the Minister did not dismantle this provision as the broadcasting and complaints commissions will complement each other in the long-term interests of television. I welcome this positive Bill which can be further improved by way of amendments.

I hope we will not forget that RTE championed television and radio for many years and that it is not left behind. There are those who enter the market with mercenary motives and a long-term profit objective, yet we still depend on a service like RTE which has a public role. That role must be measured and finance provided to ensure RTE continues to provide that service.

I wish to share my time with Deputy Boylan.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I welcome this Bill. I am not an expert on broadcasting but the publication of the Bill and this debate gives us an opportunity to discuss broadcasting policy in relatively broad terms, to comment on the national television service, make suggestions on how it can be improved and other such matters.

Digital broadcasting will change television dramatically. In the 1960s and 1970s people had a limited choice of television viewing, apart from those on the east coast and along the Border who enjoyed British channels. There was much excitement when RTE 2 came into being in the late 1970s and when multi-channel services were made available. Most people now have quite a wide choice of channels and digital television will expand those frontiers even further.

One sees advertisements for television companies which claim that particular sets can carry 40, 50 or 100 channels. In the future every household will have access to hundreds of channels. That is good, but as Deputy Finucane pointed out, in addition to the opportunities offered, there will be difficulties. The Minister, the Department and television companies have a responsibility to ensure that, where possible, the service is reasonable, fair and balanced and does not provide people, particularly children, with access to undesirable channels and viewing.

Parents also have a responsibility in this area and we have to recognise that, over the past two decades, television has become an unofficial babysitter. It is undesirable that many children have no recreational alternative to television. They go from their schoolbooks to television to bed to school, and the cycle starts again. The Minister's wider remit gives her responsibility for arts and culture and I wonder about the impact of television on those areas. Children have become experts on every television programme and know the producers as well as the stars. I wonder if the broader disciplines of arts and culture are losing out as a result of too much emphasis on and viewing of television by young people. I do not want to be a killjoy and we cannot turn the clock back, but we have to examine the broader impact of television on younger people. Many studies have highlighted the dangers of too much television on younger people. This issue might also be taken on board by the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Martin. We must give children a broader vision of leisure, recreation and after-school activities as opposed to watching television all evening.

Notwithstanding this point, extra choice is good in every aspect of life and I have no difficulty with the advent of digital television. This Bill will provide the legislative framework for the services to be introduced. Will the Minister outline the impact which the legislation and digital television will have on legislation governing MMDS and community channels promised as late as yesterday by the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke? There was an important debate on community television for many years and we seemed to make a breakthrough in recent months concerning the mechanism which would allow for such television. Will the Minister outline the impact the legislation and digital television will have on the provision and maintenance of community deflector systems?

I agree with Deputy Finucane's comments on coverage of Oireachtas proceedings. Some months ago a colleague commented colourfully on the fact that "Oireachtas Report" was watched by drunks and insomniacs. However, through its coverage of the DIRT tribunal, TG4 showed people that the Oireachtas has a serious role to play in the life of the country and its citizens. Perhaps RTE could learn from this and broadcast "Questions & Answers" and other important debates more regularly.

The Bill provides for the proper establishment of TG4. Many Deputies, myself included, expressed doubts about TnaG's long-term future and relevance when it was set up, but we have been proven wrong. The service is doing very well and is providing a real alternative, and I hope it continues to do so. There is a role for TG4 in selling Irish culture in its broadest terms. The Bill stipulates that the service should cater for the expectations of those whose preferred spoken language is Irish. TG4 should concentrate on Irish culture. Deputy Martin should also reflect on this issue when examining the miserable grades achieved on the Irish paper in this year's leaving certificate. Do we consider Irish as too narrow a subject? Irish and Irishness must include the culture of the country and not just the language. TG4 can play a part in selling not just a language but Irish culture as a whole. Perhaps the legislation will give it extra scope in its remit as there is need for the transmission of programmes on Irish culture as opposed to the Irish language.

I wish to speak briefly on section 24 which provides for the categories of programmes which shall be included in programme schedules. In particular I wish to speak about a hobby-horse of mine, namely, coverage of horse racing on our national channel. Before anybody tells me horse racing is a minority sport, between 70,000 and 80,000 people each weekend pursue some form of equestrian activity. Coverage of horse racing by RTE has gone from bad to worse to dreadful to appalling to disgraceful. There was a time when 14 or 15 race meetings per annum were covered by RTE. However, that is now down to nine or ten. This is very regrettable when compared and contrasted with the way in which sports such as grand prix racing have been promoted and covered by the national broadcaster in recent years. I have no difficulty with giving good coverage to any sport. I note with huge satisfaction RTE's proper and total support and coverage of Gaelic games, particularly hurling, the image of which has been literally transformed over the past ten years. RTE has a duty to do the same for horse racing, one of our oldest national sports. However, the lack of coverage on RTE radio and television of horse racing on a daily basis is absolutely disgraceful. The Minister may not have total responsibility in this regard, but I note section 24 gives the Minister certain powers to provide for mandatory coverage of some events. I ask the Minister to discuss the possibility of using these powers to ensure one of our greatest national sports, which is not just a past-time but an industry employing tens of thousands of people, generating hundreds of millions of pounds for the country each year and giving our country a very proud and strong name abroad, gets its fair share of coverage by RTE.

It is unbelievable and disgraceful that there is no Saturday sports programme on RTE given that we are a sports mad country. As a consequence horse racing is getting no coverage. I am not sure if the Minister is a fan of horse racing, but many of her colleagues are major supporters of racing and last Saturday the biggest race ever in Northern Ireland was held in Down Royal. It was attended by thousands of people from the Republic, including the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Walsh. Yet it was necessary to watch Channel 4 if one wanted to see coverage of it as our own national broadcaster deemed it unfit to cover. On Monday evening TV3, the independent channel, carried a report and some coverage of the race, but there was absolutely no coverage on RTE which simply gave, almost reluctantly, the bare result as part of the sports news that night. This is insufficient and I appeal to the Minister to speak to the powers that be in the sports department of RTE as they have lost the word racing from their sporting directory. Ping-pong is probably a more popular sport in the RTE sports department than horse racing. I condemn this practice which gives a disgraceful deal to one of our great national sports and industries and I want to see a reversal of that trend.

I support the Bill which is obviously part of the process of moving forward. Before we enter with an open cheque book into this bold new world of digital TV, I hope the Minister will reflect on what has been said from the Opposition and Government benches about the need for certain monitoring and controls. Choice is good but one can go overboard. I also hope the Minister will initiate some study to examine on a formal basis the impact of TV on younger children. Without condemning television coverage or dwelling too much on the ill effects, we have to try to put in place alternatives to television as a baby sitting service, something it has become in too many households.

I welcome the legislation and apologise for straying from the broader aspects of the Bill. I again remind the Minister of my comments on the television coverage of horse racing. It is disgraceful and unforgivable for RTE to give such scant coverage to one of our greatest sports. I hope the Minister can impress on the station the need to revisit its policy in this regard.

I thank Deputy Bradford for sharing time with me and for allowing me make a brief contribution to this very important debate. It is 11 years since we have had a serious discussion on these issues in the House – at that time we discussed the Radio and Television Act, 1988. It has been 40 years since we discussed the report of the television commission of 1959. There have been substantial changes since those times. Television was practically new in most households at that time – indeed many households had no television – while radios were few and far between. With the advent of transistors, radio is available 24 hours a day to practically everybody and young people seem to be plugged in all the time to radio, which is a major source of information and influence on all our lives.

Before discussing the principal concern of the legislation, namely, television, it would be remiss not to refer to the great success of local radio which has had a major influence on the development of local communities in terms of important items of information, news and events. In my area I commend Northern Sound, which has been an outstanding success, on doing marvellous work. In its own way it gave people an opportunity to enter radio journalism, some of whom have gone on to great success further afield. Damien O'Reilly, for example, started out with Northern Sound and has now progressed to the national radio station where he is an agricultural commentator worth listening to. Other people who got their opportunity in local radio and who progressed further come to mind. Though in a way it is sad to be losing good people to the national station, one cannot hold people back and if they can further their career we wish them every success.

Local radio has had a major influence and has been a great success. It was a battle royal to get local radio established as RTE was not very much in favour of it for fear it would impinge on its work. However, it has helped promote and develop broadcasting and competition is always the life of trade.

In terms of how things progress, I recall céili dancing on radio. When this was discussed people asked how céili dancing could be broadcast on radio. Dinjo – with a name like that I presume he came from Cork – became a household name with his show, "Céili House". He made stars of owners and promoters of céili bands. A household name in my county was Eugene Leddy's Céili Band, which was very successful and which was listened to on Saturday nights. Other great céili bands came to life through the idea of having dancing on radio. While people asked how it was possible to have dancing on radio, it was possible to hear the steps and it gave great entertainment. However, things have moved considerably from that time and I do not think young people would listen to such broadcasting today.

I think it is rave dancing now.

Dancing is still available. Many programmes being broadcast are unsuitable and the Minister has a duty to protect our young people. I am far from a killjoy, but occasionally if I am at home I look at soap operas and wonder about the influence they have on teenagers and people in their formative years. Do these young ones on glossy soap operas ever have to work? How do they earn their livelihood? It seems that they are always either at the seaside or in a bar having a long drink.

Baywatch.

That is not how life is, but young people can be influenced by it. The attitudes of young people are formed by constantly watching such programmes.

Of course I am in favour of sport and I take the point made very strongly by Deputy Bradford. He is perfectly right that horse racing is one of our national sports of which we should be proud. Some of the finest horses in the world have been produced on stud farms in this country and we should use every opportunity to promote that industry.

It is a matter of concern that having a television does not necessarily mean one will get the picture. We are now confronted with pay per view television. One already pays a substantial amount for the television licence. The pay per view policy applies to sports channels, such as those run by Sky Television. Young people tune into Sky for important soccer matches, car racing, boxing and so forth but they are obliged to pay substantially more for it. The cigarette, drinks and oil companies are taking over and deciding what the person pays and whether the event is available to the viewer. That is a worrying trend and I am wary of it. I understand Ireland's next soccer match is not available on RTE because it does not have the rights to the match. It is a straightforward match. I do not know who Ireland is playing – that is the extent of my knowledge about soccer – but I have heard young people—

Cold turkey.

—complaining that it is not available on RTE. The match is being played at Lansdowne Road but it cannot be shown to the people. There is something radically wrong there. If this trend is to continue, people will not only have to pay their licence fees but also have a slot machine and pay to view the sport they want to watch.

What about the promotion of our own games? Somebody said recently that hurling will be the biggest sport on television. There is a huge audience for it. People who have never seen it before cannot get over the skill and the speed with which the game is played. It has become enormously popular. We have an opportunity to promote that game. The same is true of Gaelic football. Our footballers travelled to Australia recently and showed the Australians how to play Australian Rules football. They beat the Australians in their own back garden. We should be proud of that and promote our game. There is an audience for it and for our horse racing. I am not a horse racing fan but I enjoy watching the racing and the surrounding colour and scenery. Horse racing is a good way to promote this country.

By and large, I commend the Minister. She is doing an excellent job. I also commend the national station which is also doing a good job. We must, however, keep abreast of what is happening in broadcasting and be wary of the pitfalls.

I will be brief. I listened with interest to the contributions of other Deputies, particularly Deputy Hanafin. She said RTE compared favourably with state broadcasters in Iran. The ayatollahs in RTE will be deeply reassured to hear that. Her basic point, however, is valid.

The cultural values propagated by the television medium are important and have a deep political role. That is best exemplified by what happened in East Germany. We are currently commemorating the tenth anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. I recall sitting in a bar in east Berlin before the fall of the Wall listening to East Germans talking about television programmes. They were not talking about East German television programmes but about "Kojak", which was broadcast by West German television. At that time, many of the TV aerials in East Germany pointed west so the people could receive western television. That had a huge role.

I discussed this with some East Germans and they could not get over the fantastic glamour and wealth to be seen in programmes such as "Dallas". In the detective programmes they saw car chases in which people regularly crashed cars while the East Germans had to wait ten years for delivery of an old trabant. These programmes gave them the clear impression that the west was the place to be. This was where one could get luxury and cars. The programmes had a profound effect. At some stage somebody will do a thesis on this subject and examine the role played by television in influencing people in the former communist countries.

There is an assumption throughout this debate that RTE is a public service broadcaster. I dispute that. RTE is a state broadcaster and there is an important distinction, one I will discuss later. The most common definition of public service broadcasting, a definition quoted by my colleague, Deputy Michael Higgins, is the famous maxim of Lord Reith that the purpose of public service broadcasting was to inform, to educate and to entertain. Nobody could take issue with that. We should also remember that it was Lord Reith who expounded the three truths of public service broadcasting – impartiality, objectivity and balance.

I draw the attention of the House to a book which has just been published by John Pilger called "Hidden Agendas". He draws attention to the fact that the BBC World Service was originally called the Empire Service and was funded by the Foreign Office, as the service still is. Its declared role after the Second World War was to preserve and strengthen the Commonwealth and the Empire and "increase our trade and investments abroad". So much for impartiality, objectivity and balance.

There is also an agenda within our State broadcaster. Bob Collins told a media seminar that the essence of balance is fairness. How does one define "fairness"? Perhaps the Minister can answer that. It is an important question. There is a court case on this issue which has not yet concluded. The question arose during the divorce referendum. I supported a yes vote in that referendum but, as a democrat, I thought it unbelievable that RTE would allow five uncontested broadcasts on behalf of the establishment parties who were calling for a yes vote and not give the same coverage to the no vote. That is not fair. It is beyond me how anybody could say it is.

We need to examine the way RTE runs its political section. I have long been aware that RTE has a close relationship with the establishment parties, that is, the parties that have been in Government or will be in Government. We appear to operate our Governments on a rotational basis but, as ordinary people have discovered, there is actually—

The Deputy might be with us the next time.

One never knows. We do not discount that possibility. The Greens are in government in many countries in Europe. I hope that if we were in Government, we would ensure real democracy in terms of broadcasting.

Take the example of the European elections. Two Green Party MEPs won seats in that election but if one were to listen to the RTE broadcasts, one would think our candidates were going to be eliminated. They repeatedly said the Green Party would not make it or that it was only hanging on for the last seat. The reason for this was simple. I was in the RDS and the political correspondents from RTE were hanging out with the spin doctors from the establishment parties who were spinning them a line. That problem must be examined.

The new channel, TV3, which is not intended to be a public service broadcaster—

The Deputy cannot blame television for that.

As a licence payer, one expects objectivity.

It is called "with a little help from my friends".

I see. The Deputy is making allegations I would not dare make in the Chamber. It is an issue that must be examined. TV3, for example, broadcasts political programmes but the station does not have the same fear, as it were, of the establishment parties. Therefore, it offers fairer broadcasts about politics. That has been my experience.

We need to examine the issue of content. The Minister is probably familiar with the words of an old Bruce Springsteen song "57 Channels and Nothing On". We may come to have access to thousands of channels with very poor content, but I would be critical of that. As a previous speaker said, this would result in audience fragmentation. In that regard, we need only think back to what has happened in recent years. In the days when RTE was the only station available, "The Late Late Show" was the show. Everyone saw it and it was a medium of discourse, but now viewers have a great choice of channels, including Sky and other channels. People flick through the channels. There is not an audience that tunes into only RTE. RTE's one time audience has dissipated. In some ways that is welcome because we have real regionalisation, local radio stations and in time, with digitalisation I hope, we will have local television stations. They have developed in other countries and work very well.

We must consider the question of how we broadcast. Noam Chomsky talked about manu facturing consent. He finds it difficult to get onto American television and one person told him he could not go on television because he was inarticulate. He asked the person to explain what he meant by that and was told he would not give viewers a soundbite. To be articulate, apparently one must be good at giving soundbites.

It is frightening that over the years there has been a dumbing down in the content of the programmes broadcast. Shows like Gerry Springer's are abysmal, but they are the type of programmes that sell. RTE is meant to be a public service broadcaster, but it also seems to be dumbing down. It recruited a few pretty faces to give the weather forecast, although it has made a U-turn on that decision. That is not what public service broadcasting is about. RTE should present detailed weather forecasts. RTE is either a public service broadcaster or it behaves in a commercial way. It seems it cannot make up its mind about that and is trying to cover both areas. I would like the Minister to address these important questions.

The Minister may be aware of the criticisms other operators here have made about Digico. I draw her attention to criticism of it by Mr. James Morris, Chairman of TV3. He said that Digico will act as the common carrier controlling all terrestrial broadcasting, both analogue and digital, and that it will, therefore, have a monopoly on distribution. He also said that at the same time RTE will be the content provider on the Irish channels while Digico will determine what goes out on the others. We are dealing with a monopoly, and that needs to be counteracted.

As the worldwide web develops, mini-television stations, so to speak, will develop. I do not want to be too negative of RTE , but I compliment it on its website, which is outstanding. One can click into its website and watch the "Six One News" and it has a fantastic archive. When cable television is developed fully and everyone has an ISDN line, in effect, a website will become a television station. That will take place. Has the Minister examined that area, as that revolution is nearly upon us now? It will happen extremely quickly.

There are advantages and disadvantages associated with that development. It will enable those who do not have access to television to broadcast. While there is an awful lot of dross on the worldwide web – Deputies have spoken of the danger of pornographic programmes broadcast on television etc. – it is difficult to counteract the broadcast of such material. To gain access to it, all one need do is erect a satellite dish.

One can gain access to many sites on the worldwide web. While one can gain access to information on how to make a bomb or pornographic material, many of the sites are informative. If we could develop these sites, a huge data bank would be available to all those with access to the worldwide web, and that would enhance democracy and the democratic process. Has the Minister considered how this website will develop and impact on people's lives? Has she discussed these possibilities with RTE and the other providers? That area must be addressed.

Overall, DTT is the way to proceed. While I will table some minor amendments on Committee Stage, I welcome the general direction taken by the Minister and I support her on this Bill.

I wish to make a short contribution to this Bill. I compliment the Minister on introducing it. I heard Deputy Kenny many mornings on the Order of Business ask when this legislation would be introduced. The last legislation on broadcasting was introduced in 1988. This is probably the most important legislation that will come before the House for a long time as it will determine what will happen in the area of broadcasting for the coming years. That is one of the reasons Fine Gael is not opposing it. Given that it has taken a long time for it to be introduced, if it was voted down it might take another ten or 11 years before another Bill is introduced. I am sure many amendments will be tabled to it on Committee Stage.

Deputy Gormley referred to the issue of fairness in RTE broadcasts. I want to praise RTE, but before I do that I want to criticise it. I listened to Marian Funucane one morning in the run-up to the June local elections when she interviewed a candidate on her programme for an hour. That did not show balance.

I remember Deputy Kenny walking me around the town of Castlebar during the campaign in a by-election in June 1994.

Who was behind whom?

I remember a programme on the then EU Commissioner, Pádraig Flynn, which was due to be broadcast and which RTE promoted for two weeks prior to its scheduling – I did not mind that because he is a Mayo man. RTE was not satisfied to broadcast that programme once but broadcasted it again a week before that by-election. There was no mention of the fellow from Westport, Ring who was standing for Fine Gael—

They were still beaten and will be beaten again.

In spite of that the Fianna Fáil candidate was beaten. Recently, I heard a former Minister, who held the same position now held by the Minister, criticise me on Radio na Gaeltachta in the run-up to elections because I could not speak Irish and did not come from the area. I had not made up my mind whether I would go forward as a candidate and I had to make up my mind about the Údarás elections. He picked a neighbour of mine, who lived a mile from my House and came from Achill originally, to contest the election. I am now learning some Irish from my daughter who is doing her leaving certificate and loves Irish.

I switched to TG4 last week and watched a film starring John Wayne, but he was not speaking Irish. Last Saturday night I was hoping to watch "Match of the Day" and I had to switch channels very quickly because it was not "Match of the Day" that was on TG4—

It was "match of the night".

TG4 will be competing with Sky television for the type of programmes that are broadcast after 12 p.m. If it continues to show such programmes, its audience will increase. I had to switch channels quickly that night because my family was with me in the room.

Deputy Gormley referred to political programmes and the bias involved, but I am annoyed that RTE has neglected rural Ireland. That is why local radio has taken off. It is not that it is any better than RTE or has better programmes, it has taken off because local radio deals with the day to day problems encountered by people on the ground. RTE forgot about that. The one mistake it made when it had a monopoly was that it did not follow the BBC's example and develop regional television and radio which could be run by the local people but would remain under the control of RTE.

RTE has broadened our horizons. When something happens in America, Brussels or anywhere else in the world, Charlie Bird and other correspondents travel there so they can report back to us. I hope they do not do this at their own expense, although I am sure they get allowances from RTE. I know they are concerned about our expenses, but we would like to know how much expenses they get and what RTE's presenters are paid.

We are all broadcasters. As politicians, we broadcast our message to the public in the hope we will be elected at the next general election. The Freedom of Information Act ensures that people know our salaries and expenses and how many times we vote in the House. I do not have a problem with that, but if such information is made available to the public, we should also know the salaries, expenses and bonuses of RTE's producers and presenters. I do not mind if someone gets £2 million a week if they are good at their job and they can attract an audience. However, they always seem to have a problem with what politicians earn.

It is wrong to give a station a licence to serve only a proportion of the people. Many parts of north Mayo cannot get RTE and many Gaeltacht areas cannot get TG4, which is geared towards the Gaeltacht. I tabled parliamentary questions to the Minister on this issue and I was told that TG4 is buying land and getting planning permission. However, it is a long time on the air and it is wrong that Gaeltacht areas cannot access its programmes.

There was an outcry in my constituency when TV3 was launched because many areas could not get a signal. I know it is a private company but it took on the licence for the State and it should not be allowed to broadcast to certain parts of the country. TV3 has exclusive rights to international football matches, but people in Mayo cannot see them because they cannot get a signal. That should not be allowed to happen. If a company gets a television or radio licence and signs an agreement to cover a specific area but fails to do so, the licence should be revoked until it puts the proper infrastructure in place.

RTE has been criticised in recent years, but it has done a good job and made some good programmes. I like to watch Irish made programmes, such as "Glenroe", which stars Mick Lally, "The Riordans" and "Fair City". I saw a few excellent films recently which were made and produced in this country. Some were made independently of RTE and some were made with RTE and private investors. Programmes, such as "Amongst Women", part of which was filmed in my constituency a few months ago, are excellent. We do not need to depend on the Americans or the British to make good programmes because we can do so ourselves. Support and resources should be provided to help people to make good programmes and films. There is nothing wrong with being biased towards our national station.

I am worried about what will happen in the future in terms of Sky television. Does Sky television pay the Government money to allow it to beam its programmes into the country? Everyone else has to get a licence to broadcast and they also pay taxes. Does Sky pay taxes or viewing rights to the State?

Everything is changing with the advent of computers and multi-channel television. People, particularly those who are not used to such systems and who have not been trained, are frightened by such a big change. They are used to RTE One and Network 2, but they are worried about what will happen in the future. I hope RTE and the State's investment will be protected because it is important that the State has control over what is heard on our national airwaves. We do not have much control over what is beamed into people's homes on Sky late at night. Children use the excuse they want this station because of its football coverage or its educational or wildlife programmes. However, we should not allow such programmes to be beamed into our homes without some form of control.

I was in America recently where there are approximately 100 channels, but there is nothing good on any of them. If there is a chat show on one channel, there will be a chat show on six other channels as they compete with each other. The same applies for the primary elections.

Did the Deputy consider standing in the primary elections?

I considered it but I was debarred because I am not an American citizen. My grand father fought in the American army but I do not know if that qualifies me to stand.

Was it at the Battle of the Little Big Horn?

When he got his pension, he was upset if the exchange rate of the dollar disimproved. I always knew if the rate was good or bad because that determined his mood.

We have a proper broadcasting structure in place. RTE One, Network 2, TV3 and TG4 offer good competition. It would be wrong to allow American or British influences, such as Rupert Murdoch, to get control of the airwaves because they could then decide what propaganda and sporting events should be broadcast. People would have to pay and the Exchequer would get nothing out of it. We should not be afraid to be biased towards RTE and State agencies.

I am worried that some stations, such as TV3, could take the Government to court because it is unconstitutional to use television licence fees to fund one television station. This means other stations cannot compete on a level playing field. We should consider distributing the money collected from such licences to local radio and television, which will be introduced in the future.

The Minister is aware of the MMDS issue in the west. This arose because the major cities had BBC 1, BBC 2, UTV and Channel 4 while people in the west had to beam the signal illegally into their homes as the State would not do it for them, although people would have paid for it. That created a major political storm. The problem was not that RTE was not doing its job but that the State gave licences to groups which did not comply with the licensing laws. I hope the Minister deals with this issue in the Bill. A licence should cover the entire country and that would prevent a similar problem arising in the future.

The Minister is considering legalising MMDS companies. I do not know what will happen when digital television is introduced because technology is developing extremely fast. My family got our first television set on the day President Kennedy was asassinated. I remember where I was when I heard of the assassination because I associate it with getting our first television set. My grandfather bought the television for us because the dollar was doing well at the time. We were looking forward to seeing an episode of "Katy the Farmer's Daughter"– I am sure the Minister is too young to remember it – and we were very disappointed when normal programmes were cancelled because of the assassination. We were lucky to have a television because not many of our neighbours had one and they used to come to our house to watch sports broadcasts.

We must not forget our national culture. I used very much to enjoy a programme called "One Man and his Dog". This was a simple little programme which I used to love to watch on Sunday evening and it could well be copied by RTE. We do not need violent films from abroad. I do not like to see children watching soap operas first thing in the morning, at dinner time and again in the evening. I see this in my own home where my children like to watch "Neighbours", "Home and Away" and other silly programmes from America and elsewhere. Our own programmes, such as "Fair City" and "Glenroe" are every bit as good. If we give programme makers the necessary money and resources they will do as well as anyone in any part of the world. We saw the success of "My Left Foot" which won Oscars and we should not be ashamed to support our own culture and our own programmes. I know people who are afraid to say they watch "Glenroe" because it is not grand enough. They are happy to say they watch "Home and Away" or "Neighbours". Does "Glenroe" not depict what is happening in Ireland today? It is what we know, understand and enjoy and the same is true of "Fair City". These are wonderful programmes and they cannot be beaten. However, people like to watch English programmes such as "Brookside" because they want to be considered cultured and nice. Our own programmes are just as good and they should be supported.

My only criticism of RTE is that the station forgot about rural Ireland. RTE managament thought everything started and finished in Dublin and that everything had to be in Dublin. Everything did start in Dublin and now Dublin has every conceivable problem and they are trying to divert these problems to rural Ireland. We will not mind getting some of Dublin's infrastructure and we are prepared to take some of its problems but we want fair play and I hope this can be resolved in the Bill. I hope we will never again see people who are given licences for radio or anything else failing to honour the agreements into which they have entered.

I welcome the Bill and the opportunity it provides to say a few words on broadcasting in general. We are told that "Oireachtas Report" is politically balanced. Only last week an independent Deputy, a Labour Party Deputy and four Fine Gael Deputies, including myself, spoke in a debate. That evening's edition of "Oireachtas Report" featured the independent Deputy, the Labour Party Deputy and one Fine Gael Deputy. This is called balance. Time on "Oireachtas Report" should be divided among Members and not simply on a party basis. I am not particularly anxious to appear on the programme but it is in every party's interest to allocate time in this way. People interpret balance differently. I disagree with the system of Opposition parties appointing front bench spokespeople. Ministers and Ministers of State must hold office but every other Member should be treated equally.

Local radio has had a major influence on rural life in recent years and must rate highly among the services provided to our citizens. It provides a service to local sport, gives helpful local infor mation and is useful in many other ways. Everything in this Bill should support the continuation of local radio. Many local stations are now faced with extra costs and I know the Minister has provided £500,000 for local radio but this is not sufficient funding because the maintenance of local radio is very costly.

Local radio stations face the added problem of uncertainty about the renewal of their licences. Every Minister pays attention to RTE which is our national station. RTE is supported by the licence fee but this is not true of local radio stations. These stations have provided a marvellous service and have gained a local market which RTE could have availed of had it chosen to do so. Perhaps RTE could not do so because the station faced problems of its own. Local radio should be given every help possible.

My colleague, Deputy Bradford, has spoken about horse racing. The other evening the main RTE news bulletin – and not the sports bulletin – gave the results of the English Premiership soccer matches but we were not told what won the 5 o'clock in Fairyhouse. The explanation for this may be that more people are interested in English soccer than in what won the 5 o'clock in Fairyhouse but it is RTE's job to present Irish news and happenings in this country. I do not understand why English Premiership soccer is so important. It also seems to be a news item if a pop group comes to town. To most people this is not important news and is a promotion more than anything else. This is something that RTE should be asked to look at.

A great amount of foreign material is being shown on RTE. I agree with what Deputies have said about violence in programmes. It is sad to see this being churned out on national television programmes. RTE should be asked to look at this. It should not broadcast a barrage of violence and crime, which seems to be the diet served up to people. There must be other programmes available. For example, although I do not know how much they would cost, there are fantastic documentaries about wildlife, etc., but RTE does not seem able to get such programmes. RTE might say that people do not want to watch them and they would sooner watch "LA Law" or some such programme but if documentaries were presented, people might want to watch them. The chances are that people do want to watch such programmes instead of the noise, violence, blood, gore, etc., which is what is being churned out on the national air waves. I feel strongly about this. The Minister and the RTE authority should consider the type of television programmes which are being broadcast.

There is a great deal of concern among members of the Association of Independent Radio Stations about this Bill. The Minister has had some consultations with them and perhaps she will have more, but I ask her to give every consideration to ensure the future of local radio stations, which have become part and parcel of Irish life. They must go out into the market place to raise their own funding in order to survive. I ask the Minister to give whatever assistance she can in the context of this Bill to ensure their future.

I thank the Deputies who have contributed to the debate on the Bill which deals with a wide range of broadcasting issues and contains many provisions which are technical in nature. Despite this, it is clear from all contributions that there is a strong appreciation of the importance of the issues being addressed in the Bill. I look forward to dealing with the Bill in greater detail on Committee Stage.

Deputy Kenny in his contribution to the debate expressed some dismay with regard to the timing associated with the consultation paper issued by the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation on the licensing of digital terrestrial television. The consultation process employed by the ODTR is, of course, a matter entirely for that office. However, in order for digital terrestrial television to be established successfully at the earliest date, there must be some certainty as to the licensing regime which prospective investors in the designated company will face. Accordingly, I welcome the fact that the ODTR has entered into this process.

With regard to Deputy Kenny's general comments, I have to say that I disagree fundamentally with his philosophy. Indeed, while he considers my Bill to be badly thought out, I found his views to be contradictory, particularly in relation to RTE. I do not accept his views on the regulatory regime for digital development. I have said that I must balance technological and economic considerations with the social and democratic concerns. The EU agrees also that it is not appropriate at this stage to try to impose a common regulatory regime for telecommunications and broadcasting.

Turning to the establishment of the DTT company, the Government set up an inter-departmental project management group to oversee the implementation of the Government's decision to establish a new commercial entity with responsibility for providing terrestrial transmission and technical facilities to broadcasters in the future. The project management group is assisted in this task by a team of consultants who will advise, among other things, on the manner in which the transaction to establish the new entity will be structured. I can assure the Deputy that the intention is that the process and the structure of the final transaction will be conducted in an open and transparent manner which will conform with all national and EU laws and regulation.

Deputy Kenny seemed confused about the provisions of the Bill in relation to the regulation of the transmission platforms and the regulation of broadcasting services, which may be distributed on those platforms. The Bill, however, is clear in this regard. There will be two main elements to DTT company's activities: the transmission function and the retail business. The transmission element of the business will be regulated in accordance with the licensing terms and conditions, which will be determined by the ODTR and published by that office following the completion of its consultation process. I assume that the terms and conditions will embrace the question of equitable access at reasonable cost. The transmission entity will not be free to exploit its monopoly position in the market place.

The retail element of the DTT company relates to the broadcasting services which that company undertakes to provide to its customers on the DTT transmission system. The broadcasting services provided by DTT or any of the other platforms will be subject to EU or Irish regulation as the case may be.

The purpose of the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland under the Bill will be to ensure that all indigenous services which are not free-to-air services of existing broadcasters comply with minimum standards with regard to taste and decency in programme content and standards in relation to advertising or other commercial sponsorship. The supplier of such services will also be subject to the terms and conditions of the appropriate programme content contract entered into with the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland.

Broadcasting services originating outside the State are regarded under the Television Without Frontiers Directive as "excepted persons" and accordingly such broadcasts cannot be regulated or blocked by the Irish authorities except where it can be shown that programme material might seriously impair the physical, mental and moral development of minors.

A number of issues raised by Deputy Kenny are outside my area of responsibility and I am sure that my ministerial colleagues and the appropriate regulatory authority will note the Deputy's comments.

Deputy O'Shea raised many interesting points. I identify myself fully with his concern that we must avoid the risk of creating a two-tier society of information rich and information poor. The philosophy behind my Bill is exactly to ensure that the legislative structures are put in place to create an information society that is affordable by everybody and accessible everywhere in so far as this is practicable.

On the take up of digital technology, I cannot gaze into the crystal ball and make predictions in this regard. I do not know which platform will be successful or how many of Irish television viewers will take up digital technology in the short-term. I have a sense that people are wary of new technologies because the technology is changing and becoming obsolete so quickly. However, I believe that digital television, on whichever distribution platform, will prove attractive to the Irish public as more digital services become available.

The BBC document referred to by Deputy O'Shea continues to be relevant to the concept of public service broadcasting and I do not think that anything in the Bill undermines the philosophy embodied in the principles set out in the document.

I note what the Deputy said in relation to programming for the deaf or hard of hearing and the blind or partially sighted. The Bill envisages that the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland will make rules requiring broadcasters to take specific steps to promote the understanding and enjoyment of people with such disabilities. This does not rule out the possibility of the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland setting targets in relation to subtitling or the proportion of programming which should be dedicated to providing specific services for these groups.

Turning to Deputy O'Shea's comments on the establishment of Teilifís na Gaeilge or TG4 and its future role, the Government made a commitment to set up Teilifís na Gaeilge on a statutory basis and the Bill follows through on this commitment by providing for its establishment and defining the nature of service which it is obliged to fulfil. The Bill does not change the ethos of TG4 and I would like to take this opportunity to again offer congratulations to the comhairle, management and staff of Teilifís na Gaeilge for their achievements over the past three years. With regard to the formal establishment of Teilifís na Gaeilge, I will discuss the matter with RTE, Comhairle Theilifís na Gaeilge and the management of the service in relation to the optimum time to make this move.

On the subject of Digico, I refer to my comments on Deputy Kenny's contribution. The approach taken is in line with RTE's suggestion for the development of digital television in Ireland. Deputy O'Shea raised a number of other issues in relation to Digico which cannot be addressed at this time because the work of the project management group and the consultants involved is not sufficiently advanced to the stage where answers are available.

Deputy O'Shea also queried the future relationship between RTE and the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland. I wish to make clear that the Bill does not seek to infringe in any way on the editorial independence of RTE. However, as stated earlier, I have already sought to ensure that all indigenous broadcasting services will adhere to common standards in relation to taste and decency in programming and standards relating to advertising and other commercial sponsorship.

I thank Deputy O'Flynn for his support for the Bill. During his contribution he referred to the provision relating to the capital fund of £500,000 for local radio services. It will be a matter for the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland to draw up the criteria that will apply to the allocation of grants from this fund to local stations. I understand that the existing Independent Radio and Television Commission has already done considerable work in drawing up the scheme and I expect it will come into operation as soon as poss ible after the enactment of the legislation. I agree wholeheartedly with the Deputy's praise for the achievements of the local radio sector over the past ten years. However. the question of issuing renewal contracts to existing contractors is a matter solely for the Independent Radio and Television Commission and not for the Minister concerned.

With regard to the Deputy's reference to TG4, I assure him that the provision relating to the obligation on it to have "an awareness of the need for understanding and peace within the island of Ireland" is not solely applicable to TG4. Similar obligations have been on the Statute Book in relation to RTE since 1976 and the independent sector since 1988. It is appropriate that this provision should be restated in respect of the new television service, TG4.

Is it possible to obtain copies of the Minister's script?

It is not available at present but I will distribute it to Deputies later.

Deputy Donal Carey suggested that the Bill should be more radical but he made no suggestions in this regard. It is precisely because technological development is moving so fast that it is not wise to try to devise an elaborate statutory regime in this area.

I remind the House that the last major Bill on broadcasting was enacted in 1988 – the one before that was enacted in 1976. Against this background, it is correct to provide in legislation an umbrella that is sufficiently wide to cater for as many eventualities as possible so that the innovation, enterprise and imagination of Irish people will not be inhibited by lack of legislative authority. The new Broadcasting Commission of Ireland will be expected to exploit the flexibility offered by the Bill to the benefit of Irish broadcasting and Irish enterprise. The Deputy seems to think that a cold item of legislation should be a replacement for the living imagination of our people.

Deputy Carey also referred to the independent television production sector. The establishment of TG4 has created a new, young, vibrant independent television production sector along the western seaboard and in the Gaeltachtaí. There has been much discussion about the amount of money to be allocated to the independent sector by RTE. I dealt with this extensively in the course of my opening contribution on Second Stage. Given the dispute that existed between RTE and the independent sector regarding what was basically an interpretation of law, I could not intervene. The Committee Stage amendment I intend to bring before the House will be acceptable to both the independent sector and RTE.

I welcome Deputy Conor Lenihan's constructive comments on the Bill, although we will have to agree to differ on some points. During his contribution the Deputy expressed concerns that the various transmission platforms would not operate on a level playing field. I assure him that the intention is that all distribution networks will be subject to technical regulation by the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation. The powers of the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland will relate solely to programme content.

I accept Deputy Lenihan's proposition that Irish broadcasting is now based on three pillars of broadcasting services, namely, the public, commercial and community sectors, but I must state that I regard the totality of RTE's existing services, including Network 2 and 2FM, as essential elements of its public service remit.

Community radio stations are an important feature in the landscape of Irish broadcasting. The Independent Radio and Television Commission, in its policy document on community radio broadcasting, has committed itself to continue to define it as a distinct strand in Irish broadcasting. Such commitment is reflected in its active encouragement of the sector through, among other things, the community radio support scheme. Regardless of how community stations are licensed at present, the State's commitment to the community radio sector has never been stronger.

With regard to the introduction of a statutory definition of community radio, I do not believe it is appropriate to deal with this matter at this time. In addition and in the context of the changing broadcasting environment, it is felt that it is better to allow both the sector and the Independent Radio and Television Commission to have maximum freedom to develop the area.

While the Broadcasting Bill refers to community channels, it does so only in the context of cable and MMDS systems which are licensed to distribute broadcasting services in a specific geographic location. The use of the term "community" in this context has no implications for the community radio sector with regard to the provision of services to a community of interest and does not reflect any wish to limit the potential of that sector.

Like Deputy Lenihan, I intend that this Bill will facilitate diversity in the future. One can visualise many types of service of a public nature such as education, access to information services and other electronic services. None of this is prevented from developing under the Bill.

On the subject of reciprocity of coverage between North and South, the object is that if radio frequency planning in the North can be adapted to accommodate the transmission of digital services originating from here, reciprocal arrangements may be entered into.

Deputy Crawford made a plea that some of the licence fee should be diverted to local radio stations. I do not favour breaking the present arrangement whereby RTE receives the total net receipts from licence fees. I remind the Deputy that the Bill will abolish the 3 per cent levy payable by the local radio sector. In addition, the Bill provides for the establishment of a capital fund of £500,000 specifically for the local radio sector.

I welcome Deputy McGuinness's support for the Bill. His vision of the possible future world of television coincides in large measure with mine. The Bill seeks to create the space in the new international digital era for the indigenous services he wishes to see developed. Deputy McGuinness's idealism is tempered with a healthy dose of realism. "Ireland incorporated" does not have the resources to match those of the new global multi-media conglomerates. However, we have the spirit, imagination, stories and talent to ensure that Irish people will produce the Irish programming that is demanded by and relevant to the cultural needs of our citizens. The proposals in the Bill facilitate this.

As stated earlier, I share the Deputy's concerns with regard to the risk of creating a two-tier information society. I am confident that the appropriate Government machinery is being brought to bear to seek to ensure that all our citizens have an acceptable level of access to the new technologies and are also facilitated in its use.

I welcome Deputy Sargent's broad support for my proposals. In his contribution he referred to what he calls "the privatisation of RTE's transmission system". I assure the Deputy that one of the core objectives of the new digital system will be the provision of a universal service within a very short timeframe. This universal coverage requirement will, I expect, be set down in the licence to be issued by the ODTR.

With regard to the expertise of the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland, I agree with the Deputy that the existing Independent Radio and Television Commission is not equipped to take on the new functions identified in the Bill. However, the Independent Radio and Television Commission has been preparing its proposals on the additional resources and expertise it will require to carry out its increased statutory functions.

There are a number of aspects to the problem of the availability of TG4's transmissions. I understand that TG4 is available from all RTE transmitter and transposer sites and that it is now embarking on the provision of the service from the many self-help schemes that have been established around the country with RTE assistance. This matter was raised by a number of Deputies from the west, particularly Deputy Ring. The issue of the availability of TG4 on cable systems and the difficulty viewers have in finding the station on such systems is a matter for the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation.

Deputy Sargent and Deputy Crawford referred to the problems surrounding United Christian Broadcasting. I have no function in the selection or otherwise of particular sound broadcasting proposals. The process is entirely in the hands of the Independent Radio and Television Commission which must operate within the legislative provisions set out in the Radio and Television Act, 1988.

I thank Deputy Pat Carey for his support. I too am concerned about the quality of programme material in the digital era. The Deputy rightly points to the importance of the role of RTE and TG4, as our national public service broadcasters, in maintaining the high quality of programming we have enjoyed to date. The provisions of the Bill will ensure that RTE and TG4 can continue to deliver, in the face of increased competition, quality programming of relevance to the Irish viewer.

In relation to Deputy Michael Higgins's contribution, I have addressed many of the issues raised by him in my earlier comments. However, I would like to address a number of specific areas. The Deputy referred to a commitment I am supposed to have made in relation to cross-ownership of the media. My contribution on Second Stage of Deputy Michael Higgins's Broadcasting and Other Media Bill, 1998, made it clear that I do not have functional responsibility for matters relating to the Competition Act, 1991. I did, however, inform the House that the competition and mergers review group was examining the issue and that the Tánaiste had undertaken to forward Deputy Micheal Higgins's Bill to the group for its consideration.

The Deputy is correct in recognising that one of the issues to be faced in the broadcasting sector is the rapid growth in technology and the effect this will have on policy. Deputy Michael Higgins and a number of other Deputies also referred to the phenomenon of convergence. Convergence between broadcasting, communications and information technologies means that the methods of delivery of these services, or the platforms on which such services are delivered, are becoming indistinguishable from one another. It does not necessarily follow that the services themselves will converge, at least in the short-term. This is why the Bill establishes a separate statutory structure for the regulation of broadcasting services. The Bill does not provide for a position where broadcasting should simply be regarded as another commercial telecommunications service and regulated accordingly. Neither does the Bill propose to regulate activity on the Internet. Multi-media activity is not subject to broadcasting regulation at present and I have heard no convincing argument that it should be so now.

There is an argument that the regulation of the various platforms on which these services can be delivered should be standardised to a large extent. This type of regulation is quite properly the function of the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation. Some Deputies expressed concern at the consultation paper on digital broadcast licences issued by the director. I do not share this concern. The director is already responsible for the issue of licences in respect of broadcast transmitters operated by RTE and the independent sector. She already regulates the cable, MMDS and telecommunications sector. The Bill makes it clear that the regulation of the operational aspects of the platform will be a matter for the ODTR. This approach is consistent with the realities of the convergence of technologies without abandoning the important differences in services.

Despite the concern expressed by a number of Deputies – I am referring particularly to statements by Deputy Kenny and Deputy Pat Carey – in regard to the licence fee that RTE will be bankrupt in three years, I would like to make it clear that RTE has not sought a licence fee increase during my time in office and, accordingly, such an increase is not under consideration at this time.

I am glad that Deputy Browne, Carlow-Kilkenny, spoke with such high praise for the quality of all our broadcasting services, national and local, television and radio, and I fully concur with what he said in this regard. I also welcome the Deputy's support for the proposals in the Bill on the abolition of the 3 per cent levy payable by the independent sector to the Independent Radio and Television Commission and the establishment of the capital fund of £500,000 for the local radio sector.

What about the indexation of licences?

I will come to that later in my speech. I welcome Deputy Collins's support for the Bill and I am glad he echoed my view, often stated, that broadcasters in the public service ethos and in the commercial sector can co-exist and benefit from each other's existence. In this regard let me use this opportunity to congratulate TV3 on its progress to date in establishing itself with Irish audiences. I appreciate there are certain difficulties associated with the reception of TV3 on cable and MMDS systems. The resolution of these problems is a matter for the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation and I hope, in the interests of Irish television viewers, these problems can be resolved amicably and speedily.

Deputy Collins referred to the provisions in relation to the use of the independent television production sector by RTE. Significant progress has been made in recent years in the commissioning of high quality programmes by the RTE independent production unit from the independent sector. I am confident that the amendment I will bring forward on Committee Stage will build substantially on what has been achieved.

I have already dealt with many of the issues raised by Deputy Moloney. I welcome his supportive comments on TG4.

A number of Deputies raised the question of additional cost to viewers of the arrival of digital television. In order to receive digital terrestrial television, viewers will either have to purchase a digital television receiver or obtain a set-top box to attach to their analogue receiver. How the set-top box will be provided and the cost involved will be determined by the marketplace. However, let me assure the House that viewers who do not choose to equip themselves with digital technology will continue to receive existing services originating in this country in analogue format for a considerable period into the future. I do not agree with some of the comments made by Opposition Deputies on the switch over period.

Will it be a ten year period?

Deputy Ulick Burke suggests that I have been responsible for broadcasting policy for the past ten years. I have only been in office for a little over two years and in that time I have brought forward the most comprehensive broadcasting legislation in over 20 years. I do not accept his views on the position of RTE in the new broadcasting era. The structures I propose to put in place allow all who wish to avail of the new technology to provide new services of all kinds on an equal basis.

I cannot understand the logic of the Deputy's argument in relation to the role of the licence fee in the funding of the public service broadcaster. Is he suggesting that such a range and quality of programming could be provided otherwise? I am satisfied the definition in the Bill is comprehensive in relation to what a broadcaster in the public service should be required to do. I assure the Deputy that it is my objective to ensure that TG4 is adequately funded to enable it to carry out its remit as proposed in the Bill.

I would like to clarify for the Deputy the question of who will appoint the new Broadcasting Commission of Ireland. No change is proposed. The Government appoints the Independent Radio and Television Commission under the Radio and Television Act, 1988. The membership of the proposed Broadcasting Commission of Ireland will continue to be appointed by the Government.

Turning to Deputy Ó Caoláin's contribution to the debate, I dealt with the establishment of Digico earlier and in my Second Stage speech and l do not intend to go over that ground again. The Deputy referred to the perceived fall in programming standards in recent years with the explosion in the number of commercially driven television programme services. It is precisely because of this development that strong public service broadcasting is needed. The Bill seeks to ensure that this will happen in the future. I am happy that Irish viewers wish to see on their screens such services rooted in the interests and concerns of Irish citizens and which articulate and contextualise those concerns in the interests of a vibrant democratic process.

I dealt earlier with the progress that has been made in increasing the coverage of RTE, Network 2, TG4 and TV3 in Northern Ireland.

I must clarify the position of the Broadcasting Complaints Commission. The Broadcasting Complaints Commission will not be under the jurisdiction of the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland. While the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland will provide the resources to enable the Broadcasting Complaints Commission to carry out its functions, the Broadcasting Complaints Commission will be totally independent of the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland.

I share Deputy Rabbitte's concerns about the impact of the availability of an increasing number of programme services on quality, but l am not as pessimistic about the future as he is. We have a highly educated, articulate population which will demand programming of the highest quality from our indigenous broadcasters.

To ensure that there is universal availability of digital services, we must establish the digital terrestrial transmission infrastructure. It is the only system that can be rolled out for such coverage quickly. Cable systems, for example, do not offer the possibility of universal coverage for many reasons, not least economic reasons. I dealt with Digico earlier and I welcome the Deputy's support for my efforts to strengthen the position of public service broadcasting in Ireland.

Deputy Hanafin, in her portrayal of the broadcasting services that can be found elsewhere, made the most cogent argument in support of a strong public service broadcasting sector. I welcome her full support for the philosophy behind the provisions in the Bill. We cannot stop the reception of programme services originating in other EU member states once they conform with the provisions of the EU directive on transfrontier broadcasts. However, I am confident that indigenous broadcasting services will cater for the needs and tastes of Irish viewers.

Access to external services of high quality must add to our understanding of other cultures and broaden our horizons. I am sure that the RTE authority will take note of the Deputy's comments regarding programmes it provides. The type and quality of programming which is broadcast was raised by a number of Deputies. However, they will appreciate that this is a matter solely for the authority, not the Minister.

Deputy Deenihan raised the issue of the closedown of the analogue transmission system. The question of when analogue transmissions will be terminated will be a matter for consideration by the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation in the first place and, no doubt, by Government at the appropriate time. In this regard does the Deputy seriously suggest that every household in the State with a television set should be arbitrarily deprived of television service through an early closedown of the analogue system in order to facilitate the promotion of digital services that will be largely commercially driven? While I do not have the precise details to hand of the UK's plans in this regard, the Deputy has not fully reflected on the UK position.

As far as I can recollect, the final decisions on the closedown date will be taken in light of the penetration of receivers capable of digital reception. Any decision on when analogue trans missions will be closed down must take account of the take up of digital services by television viewers. A closedown date could be announced when, for example, a significant penetration of digital receivers or set top boxes, such as 50 per cent of television households, has occurred. At this stage the analogue system will not be shut down before 2015 unless there is an extraordinarily rapid take up of digital in the meantime. I hope that answers Deputy Kenny and others.

The Minister might still be in office when the changeover takes place.

One never knows as politics is a strange business. The process of establishing the digital entity is proceeding concurrently with the passage of the legislation. Of course, the entity cannot be established until the Bill is enacted. In this regard I understand from RTE that a date of September 2000 for the launch of DTT in Ireland is not achievable, but this does not adversely affect the commercial attractiveness of the entity to be created. I dealt earlier with Digico and I do not intend to comment further on the matter. I have also dealt with most of the other issues raised by Deputy Deenihan.

Like many other speakers, Deputy Perry has rightly given high praise to the achievements of the local radio sector over the past ten years. I am confident the new Broadcasting Commission of Ireland will continue to foster local and community radio services. The Government recognises the achievements of the sector through the provisions of the Bill relating to the capital fund for the sector and the abolition of the levy payable to the Independent Radio and Television Commission. The Deputy referred to RTE's participation in the new digital entity and said that it is getting a very good deal. The process is intended to be fair to RTE and to establish a fair value for the transmission assets to be transferred. It cannot convey any special advantage to either RTE or the new entity and will be conducted fully in accordance with national and EU competition and State aid regulations.

The Deputy raised the question of RTE reception in north Sligo. As I have explained in the House many times, I have no statutory function in this matter. However, in accordance with long-standing custom, I am prepared to inform the House about particular cases as notified to me by RTE. I will be happy to make inquiries on the matter on behalf of the Deputy and will communicate with him separately when I receive the information from RTE.

Deputy Callely, with other Deputies, highlighted the breadth and range of programming services that are available to the people, which have been produced by Irish people, and I welcome his support for the Bill. I note his concern about the maintenance of standards regarding taste and decency in programming. The BCI will decide how it will go about drawing up the codes of standards for which it will have statutory responsibility under the proposed legislation. Public consultation is not excluded under the Bill and the commission will be free to take this route if it considers that it will enhance the process.

The Deputy also raised issues of detail in regard to the provisions of the Bill as they affect the cable and MMDS sectors, particularly in the provision of local and community programme services. It is more appropriate to deal with these issues on Committee Stage and I am sure a number of proposals and amendments will be tabled for consideration. I have received representations from the cable and MMDS industry and I met a deputation last week. I am still considering these representations.

I thank Deputy Cosgrave for his positive approach and I concur to a large degree with his philosophy and that of Deputy Timmins. I welcome their support for the proposals which will create the space in the digital era to allow existing national public and private television broadcasters to exploit the new technology. I expect these broadcasters to avail of the opportunity afforded them to develop additional free to air services as well as more specialist services for which a subscription will be payable.

Deputy Timmins referred to the licence fee. The Bill adequately addresses legitimate concerns that people may have in this regard. Deputy Finucane broadly supported the legislation, for which I thank him. He made complimentary remarks about RTE and TG4. I am glad the Deputy recognised the importance of TG4's transmission of committee proceedings in the Houses. It furthers democratises what goes on here and provides the public with more access to the proceedings of the Houses.

Deputy Bradford, like other Deputies, referred to the need to protect younger viewers from unsuitable programming. This issue has been raised time and again. However, programming does not come directly under my remit. For example, the RTE authority deals with this issue in regard to RTE. I recognise that the Deputy has a specific interest in sports, not least racing. He was concerned that there is not enough coverage of sporting events. He made his views known succinctly. Hopefully somebody on the RTE authority or from RTE itself might take up that debate with him and Deputy Boylan, who also commented on the need for further recognition of racing and other sports.

Deputies will be aware that the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) Bill, 1999, has completed its passage through both Houses and will be signed by the President soon. The legislation will deal with what the public considers to be important cultural and sporting events. We are all aware of the difficulties posed with regard to pay per view. It is because of the onset of pay per view, particularly in relation to sporting events, that this legislation is needed. I thank Members for their support for the Bill.

With regard to Deputy Bradford's contribution, I wish to clarify the position in relation to section 24 of the Bill. This section relates to the public service character of RTE's national broadcasting service and contains no power to intervene in the day to day programming. This goes back to the RTE authority, appointed by Government, which has to satisfy itself that the service provided accords with the guidelines laid down in the legislation.

I have referred to some of the points raised by Deputy Boylan. Certainly – this is very much an aside – as someone who had the opportunity to train in the area of psychology, I would be interested in definitive studies, if any, on the effect of television on children or young people. If anyone has that information to hand I would be interested to read it for my own education. It is a debate that interests everyone, particularly parents.

Deputy Gormley made a strong criticism of RTE in regard to the requirement to be objective and impartial. We will always have this debate, which is a healthy one, between broadcasters and politicians. If everyone considers it is unfair, there must be some sense of balance or fairness. I do not say that with any great levity. It arises a great deal of the time where politicians, as individuals or as members of parties, consider they do not get as fair a deal as they would wish in terms of coverage. The Deputy made a strange remark when he referred to the parties in the House which had at one stage been parties in Government. I think that was his definition of an established party. Yet he referred to established parties in a rather derogatory manner. It must be the first time I have ever heard a public representative or a TD doing his best not to be in a position to be a member of Government. Perhaps he will explain that to me at a later date. However, he has been positive about some of the proposals put forward in the Bill and I thank him for his support.

Deputy Ring raised the issue of TV4 reception. I referred to that in my reply, but if the Deputy wishes to raise any specific issues in his constituency and contacts my office we will try to get the information for him. The Deputy's remarks regarding TV3 should be addressed to the Independent Radio and Television Commission. I have no function in relation to the contractual relationships between TV3 and the Independent Radio and Television Commission. On the subject of control over programmes coming in from abroad, I dealt in detail with that matter earlier. While the Deputy's remarks about the deflector system are interesting, responsibility rests with the ODTR, not with my Department.

I have dealt in great part with all the issues raised by Deputy Belton in relation to local radio. That issue was raised time and again during the debate. Practically every contributor mentioned the importance of local radio and took the opportunity to recognise the work those stations are doing in mirroring their local communities. I join with them and put in my plug for Clare FM.

The Minister said she would refer to index linking.

I did, Deputy Higgins. The Deputy raised the matter of index linking of the licence fee. This matter was put forward when he was Minister. I understand that whereas a decision was taken in principle – I am open to correction on this – the mechanism in which this would be carried out had not been agreed before the fall of Government. I understand this matter stands unless it is rescinded. The position is that the Government is not in favour of index linking the licence fee. I hope I have accurately outlined the position in regard to index linking.

The issue is whether RTE would be entitled to the benefits of the decision taken at Cabinet when I was a member.

I cannot answer that but I will get back to the Deputy on the legal position.

I thank Members for an interesting and comprehensive debate. I am pleased so many took the opportunity to become involved and I look forward to Committee Stage.

Question put and agreed to.
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