Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:1 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his visit to South Africa and Lesotho. [1335/00]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Official Engagements.
Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:2 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the trips abroad he will make in the first six months of 2000; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1349/00]
Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:3 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting with President Thabo Mbeki during his recent visit to South Africa. [1434/00]
Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:4 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meetings with business leaders during his recent visit to South Africa. [1435/00]
John Gormley
Ceist:5 Mr. Gormley asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his recent trip to southern Africa. [1438/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:6 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the EU Heads of Government meeting in Helsinki on 10 and 11 December 1999; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1463/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:7 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meetings with other EU Heads of Government at the EU Heads of Government meeting in Helsinki on 10 and 11 December 1999; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1464/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:8 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to South Africa and Lesotho; the official engagements he undertook; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1471/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:9 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the EU Heads of Government meetings, if any, he expects to attend in the first half of 2000; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1702/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:10 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the communications, if any, he has had with the acting President of Russia, Mr. Putin; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1703/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:11 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach his scheduled foreign visits abroad, if any, in the next four months; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1704/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:12 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the contact, if any, he has had since the EU Summit in December 1999 with the President of the EU Commission, Mr. Prodi; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1705/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:13 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his official visit to Lesotho in January 2000. [1710/00]
John Bruton
Ceist:14 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the ways in which his Department will develop a strategic focus for this country's interests and image at international level as set out in his Department's Strategy Statement; the Departmental resources to be devoted to this task; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1723/00]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 15, inclusive, together.
As I outlined in my comprehensive statement to the Dáil on Wednesday 15 December, I attended the European Council in Helsinki on 10 and 11 December. The agenda for the meeting was ambitious and a number of potentially contentious issues were discussed. I am pleased that progress was made on all of these matters.
In relation to enlargement, the European Council decided that the accession negotiation process should now include all 12 accession countries on an equal footing, each to be judged on its own merits. The Council also confirmed that the Union should be in a position to welcome new member states from end 2002. In addition, we successfully found a formula to include Turkey as a candidate country, while recognising the necessity for all candidates to comply with the Copenhagen Criteria before entering negotiations.
The meeting also discussed the forthcoming intergovernmental conference. It was agreed that it should be convened in early February and conclude by the end of this year. It is likely to convene on 14 February. The agenda will focus primarily on the three Amsterdam leftovers: size and composition of the commission; the weighting of votes in the Council; the possible extension of qualified majority voting as well as a small number of related institutional changes. Other items may come on the agenda as negotiations proceed.
Following from the Cologne European Council, an issue of key interest to Ireland at the summit was the common European policy on security and defence. The report by the Presidency on this issue rightly made clear that the EU's engagement relates to Petersberg Tasks and not to the so-called Article 5 issues of mutual defence. It was also important for us that the EU at the highest level be seen to support the United Nations and recognise the primary role of the UN Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security. At my request the conclusions reflect that fundamental point.
Two main areas were addressed from Ireland's point of view, capabilities and decision making structures. In essence, as to capabilities it was agreed that member states would be able by 2003 to deploy a force of between 50,000 and 60,000 capable of the full range of Petersberg Tasks. I should stress that participation by any member state will be on a case by case basis as individual missions arise. I also emphasise that what is involved is not a standing European army and the conclusions from the Council explicitly recognise that this is the case.
My first visit abroad this year was an official visit to Lesotho on 10 January, followed by an official visit to South Africa from 11 to 14 January. In Lesotho, I met Prime Minister Mosisili who was accompanied by the Ministers for Foreign Affairs, Education and Natural Resources. The Prime Minister expressed his deep appreciation for Ireland's development assistance to his country during the past 25 years. We had a discussion on important regional issues and I took the opportunity to highlight Ireland's campaign for the Security Council. He assured me of his commitment to political reforms and the strengthening of democratic institutions within Lesotho. I also made a courtesy call on King Letsie III.
I was happy to perform the official opening of the new offices of the Consulate of Ireland in Maseru, where I had the opportunity to meet political figures from Lesotho, religious leaders, members of the Irish community, particularly those working on development projects, and members of the international development aid community. I travelled with several members of the Lesotho Cabinet to visit remote areas of the country where Ireland Aid has been working to improve the lives of the people in very fundamental ways. I visited projects which are developing the social and economic infrastructure of the country and providing drinking water, education and health care facilities.
In South Africa, I met President Thabo Mbeki and Deputy President Jacob Zuma. Discussions focused on: the experience of South Africa since the end of the apartheid era in 1994 and the current programme of economic and social transition; the Northern Ireland peace process – I expressed my thanks for the role played by South Africa in supporting its progress in so many ways; Ireland's economic performance and potential for the further development of bilateral trade; the EU-South Africa Trade Agreement; and regional African issues. I received thanks for Ireland's support for the anti-apartheid movement and for Ireland's ongoing development co-operation assistance.
On my visit to South Africa I was accompanied by a 20 member business delegation and I was happy to meet their South African business partners and to explore with them possibilities for developing trade, investment and partnerships between the two countries. At an Enterprise Ireland business breakfast in Johannesburg I addressed 150 business people on the subject of Ireland's economic performance and the development of economic relations between Ireland and South Africa.
In both Johannesburg and Capetown I visited development co-operation projects which are supported by Ireland Aid, mainly in the area of justice, reconciliation and support for at-risk groups. I was struck by the enormity of the problem posed by the HIV virus and AIDS, not only in the countries I visited but, as was pointed out to me, all over Africa. Ireland Aid is already supporting a number of projects in this area. I welcome the launch yesterday of an Ireland Aid strategy on HIV/AIDS. This is aimed at increasing and making more coherent Ireland Aid's support for programmes to prevent and treat the disease. The strategy also addresses its socio-economic consequences for communities in poor countries where the incidence may be as high as 50% or more. I will remain in close contact with the European Commission and other member states regarding the EU's development aid programmes and their contribution to alleviating the problem of HIV/AIDS.
I addressed the South African Institute of International Affairs on the Northern Ireland peace process. I visited Robben Island prison in the company of Mr. Ahmed Kathrada who was imprisoned there with Nelson Mandela. The conditions during their time were very difficult but Mr. Kathrada told me that they drew inspiration from the support they received from around the world, including support from Ireland. I also met members of the Irish community in South Africa in both Pretoria and Capetown.
With regard to my EU and international related programme until the end of June, I plan to visit Australia and the United States from 9 to 18 March. Preparations for this visit are being finalised at present. I will also attend the special European Council on employment in Lisbon on 23 and 24 March. In addition, it seems likely that the EU/Africa Summit planned for Cairo in early April will proceed. The final European Council of the Portuguese Presidency will be held on 19 and 20 June. I will also attend EXPO in Hanover on 28 June, the day set aside as Ireland's national day. I have made a number of visits to accession countries and will make further such visits as the opportunity arises.
The details of the strategic focus for the development of this country's interests and image at international level are outlined in my Department's strategy statement. In particular, the business plan for the European and international affairs division contains the goals, outputs and specific actions which are employed to achieve this focus. The programme of international meetings which I have undertaken provides a tangible focus to this strategy. The decision to visit a particular country or meet with its representatives is taken in conjunction with the Department of Foreign Affairs in the first instance, having considered our bilateral interests. Such interests include political, economic, cultural and development co-operation. The European and international affairs division is responsible for the implementation of the strategy.
I wrote to European Commission President Prodi on 22 November enclosing a copy of the national development plan. He replied on 3 January wishing the Government success with the implementation of the plan. I have had no contact with the Acting President of the Russian Federation, Mr. Vladimir Putin, since his appointment at the end of last year.
I welcome you back, a Cheann Comhairle, and wish you well for the coming session. Why has the Taoiseach engaged in the farce of answering 15 questions of a diverse nature? Does he agree that makes it well nigh impossible for Opposition Members to pursue their responsibility across the range of issues to which he has given a response? Did the Taoiseach's Department decide to answer these questions together? That is my first question and, since 15 questions were grouped together, I presume I am entitled to put 15 supplementary questions. I will not indulge in the same abuse as the Taoiseach.
In light of what the Taoiseach saw in South Africa, is he prepared, in the context of the forthcoming Finance Bill and the reallocation of resources in the budget, to increase the Government's allocation of bilateral aid to Lesotho and other countries in Africa or to increase the bilateral and multilateral aid allocation to move it towards the mid-term target of 0.45%? With regard to the 150 business people who attended the function in South Africa addressed by the Taoiseach – I am not sure whether it was a breakfast or lunch – will he indicate who selected the 150 people? Will he indicate the representative balance of that group in terms of post-apartheid South Africa?
With regard to the eligibility of Turkey to apply for membership of the European Union, who will monitor compliance with Copenhagen standards and what role, if any, does the Government have in that regard?
A number of the questions put down by Members are the same. In addition, the questions about the Helsinki summit were comprehensively dealt with before Christmas. It is not an inordinate number of questions to be taken together.
Did the Taoiseach's Department make that decision?
They were dealt with in the normal fashion. I never interfere with the order of the questions. If I were to take the questions one by one—
Topic by topic.
—or even in small groups, we would never get through them. There are almost 100 questions to the Taoiseach on the Order Paper. Today's questions are mainly on development aid projects, the South African trip and the European Council, which we have already discussed, so it is not unreasonable to take them in this manner.
With regard to the aid programmes, I will not repeat what I said about their value. People have wished for a long time that the Taoiseach would see the aid programmes at first hand and I undertook to do that. I am convinced our development aid budget is well spent and is achieving an excellent return. We are already committed to reaching the UN target for all donors of 0.7%. In addition, we have set an interim target of 0.45% of GNP to be reached in the lifetime of the Government. Deputies will be aware that efforts to make progress in this area have been complicated by the high growth rate of the past number of years.
How have they been complicated?
Growth rates have been between 7% and 8% which makes it much more difficult to reach the target in monetary terms. That is the obvious reason. That said, the interim target has yet to be reached in the lifetime of the Government. It will mean an enormous amount of additional cash resources, but the Government has already stated its support for the aid programme. I mentioned all the valuable benefits it gives. Also, there are growing demands from countries much poorer than South Africa.
On the visit to South Africa, Enterprise Ireland organised the breakfast in which I was involved. Deputies will be pleased to know the balance of the post-apartheid era was well adhered to. A number of former members of the ANC and business people still in the organisation were involved along with Irish companies. No one would have been unhappy with that. I had no involvement with the companies. They were the responsibility of Enterprise Ireland.
Regarding Turkey, the European Council and the European Commission will monitor the situation to ensure the criteria are met. That will be an ongoing process and it will take a considerable amount of time to see how the various human rights issues and the criteria laid down in Copenhagen and Amsterdam are followed in the time ahead. The European Council will take a special interest as well as the European Commission.
Does the Taoiseach agree the trip to South Africa was more concerned with promoting Irish business than improving development aid? Does he agree he should not go on these trips until such time as we have reached the UN target of 0.7%? The amount we donate at present is abysmal.
A number of Deputies have already seen these programmes at first hand and Members of the House, not to speak of the current and previous Presidents, had previously visited a number of places I visited. Enormous work is being done by the Irish aid programmes but more can be done. I was originally supposed to visit Mozambique where a 21 year old civil war has ended. There is now a huge demand there for aid programmes. Our money is being spent extremely well and on valuable work, not only in monetary terms, but in human terms as evidenced by the Irish missionary groups, by which I was especially impressed. I had read about them but did not realise there were so many. Not only are the missionaries present, but there are also NGOs and Irish people working with groups from other countries. Not all are with APSO, Irish Aid, Concern or other Irish aid organisations. They are putting in a great effort. Many receive support from their families at home and from companies which make charitable donations. The programme is extremely worthwhile and is greatly appreciated. In Lesotho, the entire Cabinet turned up to meet me at the airport for no other reason than to show their gratitude to Ireland for what it has done there for the past 25 years.
Is the Taoiseach embarrassed to any extent in his European Union work by the fact that Ireland, after many warnings, will now be prosecuted by the European Commission for what the Irish Independent has described as potentially catastrophic e-coli pollution of our water supplies? Is it not embarrassing that, with our levels of prosperity and revenue, we should be prosecuted because we ask people, many of them elderly and ill, to drink dirty water?
A parliamentary question has been tabled on that subject.
I am asking about the European dimension. Has the Taoiseach discussed this matter with the Commission President, Mr. Prodi, or with anyone else? We should be allowed to ask relevant questions on this.
Priority Question No. 77 in the name of the Deputy's party colleague should not be pre-empted.
I am asking the Taoiseach if he is concerned about the matter. This is a Government which is collectively responsible rather than a Government where individuals are responsible. The Taoiseach is answering questions at length about matters concerning foreign policy. This is a European issue – the quality of water.
It is the subject of a priority question.
Is the Taoiseach in any way embarrassed by this—
It is more appropriate to the Minister—
This country is being brought to court.
There is a question on the same subject which is due to be taken in less than 30 minutes.
We are not going to get any more information than we already have. I am asking what political responsibility is being taken by the Taoiseach in this matter.
The Minister for the Environment and Local Government is engaged in discussions at European level on this matter which arises from rural water schemes. The Minister will indicate what has been happening.
I thank the Taoiseach for acknowledging my question which is an important one. In his discussions with Thabo Mbeke did he raise the issue of the continuing and disastrous war in the Congo in which troops from six states are involved – Rwanda, Uganda, Burundi, Namibia and Zimbabwe as well as the Congo? Some of these countries, Zimbabwe in particular which is gradually being converted into a dictatorship, are unable to cater adequately for their people. I understand the South Africans are mediating. What indications did the Taoiseach receive from them as to what is being done to bring to an end this disastrous war which, if it was taking place in Europe, would involve France, Germany, Italy and Spain? It is not just a civil war, it is a major continental war, with the Congo as the battleground. Did it come up in the Taoiseach's discussions and what was the outcome?
The Deputy is correct, it is a major war of consequence to the entire continent and it was uppermost in the President's mind. He spoke at length about his involvement. South Africa is increasingly playing a role in the region. It is the President's intention to put an enormous amount of time and effort into bringing wars in the region to an end. The war in the Congo is causing great concern because of the instability being created. During the Christmas period it spread to countries where no difficulties had been experienced for 20 to 30 years. The President did not see an immediate end to the conflict but was anxious to exert his influence. Nelson Mandela is acting on behalf of the South African Government. The Southern Africa development community is co-operating to overcome the difficulties. Its representatives have been talking to those of the United States, Europe and others. South Africa has been playing an active role in the community. Its troops went into Lesotho 18 months ago. It is also playing a role in Mozambique. There have been atrocities and an enormous number of people have died—
If it was taking place in Europe, imagine what would be happening. Look at what happened in Kosovo, America intervened immediately.
It is one of six wars in the region. The President spoke at length about the consequences for the entire continent.
Mhol an Taoiseach an méid atá a dhéanamh san Afraic Theas agus i Lesotho le cabhair airgid ón Rialtas anseo. An bhfuil sé sásta an cabhair sin a ardú, gan é a fhágáil ar an leibhéal íseal scanallach ar a bhfuil sé le trí bliana anuas? I join with the Taoiseach's deserved expression of praise for the work being done in South Africa and Lesotho with Irish overseas aid and I compliment those involved in the direct delivery of that aid. Does the Taoiseach agree that the level of Irish overseas aid is disgracefully low and will he say when, or indeed if, the Government intends to make any progress towards the United Nation's goal of 0.7% of our GNP going to overseas aid? Will he give a considered response to that? Other Members referred to the detail of increased allocation but I am anxious to hear the Taoiseach giving a specific commitment in this regard.
The figure is rising every year and there are massive demands for aid programmes.
The figure is not rising.
I have already stated the Government's commitment to a long-term figure of 0.7% and an interim figure of 0.45%. In money terms, that represents a very substantial increase. The aid programme is being distributed through three main channels at present: the direct development partnerships with a number of priority countries such as those which were referred to; multilateral organisations such as the EU, the World Bank and the UN; and NGO programmes and other partner organisations for smaller development projects and emergency assistance. I referred to the NGO aspects previously.
The prevalence of HIV infection and the AIDS virus is currently one of the biggest problems. Resources are needed in regard to the humanitarian issues of education and research assistance. Those are the areas in which the organisations require urgent assistance. The message which I heard clearly from Irish groups and others is that the assistance of the European Union and the donor countries and organisations is immensely important. Some 40% of the adult population of Lesotho suffer from the AIDS virus so one can see the difficulties which are being created in a poor country.
Is the Taoiseach aware that, as a result of the increase in the real economic growth of this country, the figure to which he refers as having increased and the only figure to which we have given a commitment, which is a percentage of GNP, has actually fallen? Is the Taoiseach aware that while the volume of money may have increased, as one would expect in an economy which has been growing at an average annual rate of 7% or 8% over the past five years, the figure has actually decreased this year from 0.35% to 0.31% according to the information I have to hand? Is he further aware that in the review of the parliamentary programme and the programme for Government between his party and the Progressive Democrats, the explicit commitment in the original programme to achieve the interim target of 0.45% has actually been diluted? Can I then conclude that the Government is no longer committed to achieving the interim target of 0.45% in the course of its term of office, whatever about the 0.7%? If the Government is committed to achieving the 0.45% target, will the Finance Bill and the rejigging of the budget which will accompany that, correct the reduction which has come about according to the outgoing Minister for Foreign Affairs?
I understood the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy O'Donnell, intended to resign over this issue.
The figure was formerly 0.14% but the figure for this year is 0.31%. The figure last year was 0.27%. The figure is to further move from 0.33% to 0.38% to 0.43% to meet the interim target. The plan was that the figure would increase to 0.7% by 2007. Those are the figures on which the Department is working. I referred earlier to the increase in economic growth but I believe we should adhere to these figures.
Does the Taoiseach agree he may have inadvertently misled the House by saying the figures are rising? As a percentage of our GNP they are not rising, although, happily, the volume of money is rising. However, we never committed ourselves to a volume of money. The commitment has always been to a percentage of our national income, and because we are fortunate to have a rapidly rising income—
The Deputy is giving information instead of seeking it.
I am correcting the misinformation the Taoiseach inadvertently gave to the House. It is quite a different matter.
The Deputy should confine himself to asking a supplementary question.
Will the Taoiseach reaffirm the commitment to rising figures as a percentage of GNP rather than as a volume figure? Will he indicate whether the Government is prepared to adjust the figures so that we adhere to the percentage to which we were originally committed? Will that be done in the context of the Finance Bill?
The evolution of Irish development aid is impressive. We are committed to an interim target of 0.45% and 0.7%.
It is like draining the Shannon.
Or restoring the Irish language.
It is good if we can stick to the targets. Some years we have achieved more than 30%; other years the percentage has not been as impressive. The average for the period ahead is 22% a year. It is substantial in money terms. For the people at the coalface it is money that allows them to get on with their projects.
South Africa was a photo call.
There are no photo calls in South Africa.
The House should not make light of the fact that the people who live in deplorable circumstances and the Irish workers who give their lives to them are extremely pleased with the resources this House give them.
Give them more.
They will always want more—
We have the money.
—and they will get more. Every year we have increased the amount by more than double and it will increase to 0.7% by 2007. That is the target. In money terms that will continue to be of substantial benefit to the countries we are helping.
Does the Taoiseach agree the benefit conferred by development aid from countries like Ireland is being destroyed by other European countries who supply the armaments African leaders use to slaughter their enemies, that war is one of the main reasons for underdevelopment in Africa, and that until a political solution is found to some of the conflicts that currently exist in Africa there will continue to be chronic underdevelopment, notwithstanding the aid that this and other governments give to Africa?
In the discussions with President Prodi, has the Taoiseach taken the opportunity to express Ireland's disappointment that the Food Authority for Europe is what is contradictorily described as an advisory European food authority? Does the Taoiseach agree this is a contradiction in terms? If it is an authority, it is hardly advisory, and a body which is purely advisory is no use because it means individual countries will be able to use food safety as a means of keeping exports from other European countries out of their markets in a systematic way, as France may be doing at present. Ireland, as the biggest internal exporter of food in Europe, has an overwhelming interest in ensuring there is a single European food authority with authority to override individual member state decisions. Otherwise, our export markets will be closed to us, and that is of grave importance.
I would highlight the point the Deputy has made. The concept is that it will be an authority that will be able to give advice but will also be able to enforce decisions. The House is aware of what has happened between two of the member states in relation to beef. Now they have to take the legal route to try to resolve the problem because the French did not respond to the Commission's request.
Deputy Bruton made a valid point in his first question. Enormous amounts of resources are being spent in at least six regional conflicts in Africa, some of which have little or no relevance to Europe. These conflicts are stopping economic development and progress and I am not sure how this can be overcome. As Deputy Bruton is aware, there is not a great amount of interest in or assistance given to some of these countries and regional conflicts continue as if nothing is happening. South Africa is probably the exception because of the deep involvement of the US, however, in other areas wars have gone on for years without anything happening.
However modest, our aid programmes are very significant. In this regard I hope we will play a bigger role over time.
With regard to the wars referred to by Deputy John Bruton, did the President of South Africa raise with the Taoiseach the possibility of the suspension of all European EDF funding for the participating countries as a form of financial sanction? Did he raise with the Taoiseach the possibility of using fiscal diplomacy in the same manner and with the same degree of effectiveness the IMF was able to bring to bear on Indonesia? Does the Government have a view on the possibility of using those instruments, one in which we have a direct participatory interest and on which we can have an effect?
With regard to the forthcoming Intergovernmental Conference, which will start on St. Valentine's Day, what is the Government's position on either a tight or a broad agenda? Is it in favour of dealing with the leftovers of the Amsterdam Treaty negotiations, as the Taoiseach originally advised, or does it support the position of President Prodi that there are additional items that need to be addressed in the context of an Intergovernmental Conference, which is scheduled to conclude at the end of the French presidency this year?
I believe the South African authorities would take the view that blocking aid would be counter productive on the basis that the poor would suffer most.
They did not hold that view on the question of sanctions on fruit imports.
The issue was raised, but they believe that resources should still be deployed. In response to my request, they said that their best means of involvement is to try to use the country's growing regional position and strength to try to help to resolve these problems.
Our position on the Intergovernmental Conference is that the three issues I previously referred to should be addressed. There will also be minor matters to be dealt with and I anticipate that other institutional issues will arise.
Is the Taoiseach in favour of having additional items addressed?
It depends. I am not against addressing them if they will result in significant benefit or if they do not deal with enormous institutional change.
Is the Taoiseach in favour of an agenda dealing with the expansion of the institutions?
No. I read Jean Luc Dehane's paper which he prepared for President Prodi last September and October. I would not have great difficulty with a desire to address some of the issues raised in it. However, it is important that the timescale is adhered to. It is expected that the French will have a view on this in its presidency due in the second half of the year, but they have not yet submitted a paper outlining what they wish to see covered by the Intergovernmental Conference.
In other words, the Government is neither for nor against issues raised, but it does not propose to raise additional matters.
We are in favour of dealing with the leftovers of the Amsterdam Treaty and with some of the small institutional matters I referred to, but we have no major initiative, nor does any of the other countries.
I have difficulty understanding how the Taoiseach has put all this information together. Following his high profile visit to South Africa, did he formulate an action plan which his Department will implement? Some time ago I asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if an action plan had been devised following the Taoiseach's visit to China. Will he publish it or will we have to use the Freedom of Information Act to find out exactly what is happening following these high profile visits? The media-scrum to get to South Africa was unbelievable. What actually happened out there? Has the Taoiseach agreed anything definite? Did he come back saying he had agreed anything?
The Deputy should not make a statement.
The working group I set up after my visit to China a few years ago reported and the report on a number of decisions about embassies and the work of the agencies, which have all since been implemented, was published and well publicised.
Why has the Taoiseach not answered? It was kicked to touch. Why did I not get an answer?
As the Deputy knows I do not run the embassies, they are run by the Minister for Foreign Affairs.
The Taoiseach runs his own Department.
The State agencies are run by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. I answered questions in the House about the strategic report when it was published.
No, no.
In the case of this programme, on a number of fronts, including the business front, about which I have already spoken and the Ireland Aid projects abroad and the development aid budget, I have already reported at European level with our own Commissioner and to Mr. Prodi about some of the issues of co-ordination in the Aid programme, on health education issues. On our own programmes, it was very useful for me and for the agencies who were with me to examine what can be done to extend and improve the programmes. It was very worthwhile from that point of view, not to mention all the other aspects.
(Dublin West): With regard to the briefing on the AIDS crisis, and the tragic situation in South Africa where 22% of the adult population is HIV positive, was the issue raised with the Taoiseach of the stranglehold that the multinational pharmaceutical companies are putting on drugs that could help to alleviate the suffering? The Taoiseach was probably made aware there are now combinations of drugs in the United States that can severely retard the disease and allow people to live a relatively healthy life.
The Deputy appears to be giving information.
Information is very important.
(Dublin West): Is the Taoiseach aware that those drugs at the present prices are far out of the reach of the poor people of Southern Africa and that the pharmaceutical companies assisted—
The Deputy can avail of another opportunity to make a statement.
(Dublin West): I am trying to pose a question which is fundamental to the lives of millions of people. Was the Taoiseach made aware that the US pharmaceutical companies assisted by his friend President Clinton have stopped the generic form of these drugs being produced in Southern Africa at a fraction of the cost, and thereby cost the lives of tens of hundreds of thousands of people? Was that raised with the Taoiseach and will he give a commitment to the Dáil that he will raise this issue or get the State to raise this issue at the World Trade Organisation in particular, to free the life-saving drugs form the stranglehold of the profiteers who are killing the people for profit by this stranglehold ?
Clearly there is a lack of medicines, and a lack of appliances and facilities. Some of the centres I have seen were extremely badly equipped and the facilities, even though the staff were doing their best, were far from what we would consider adequate. What was raised with me is the suggestion that the bi-lateral donors should try to get together on an EU basis to co-ordinate our effort. The effort undertaken is much appreciated but there is a feeling among Irish, English, French and German medics that far more could be done if the effort was co-ordinated. An aspect of that could include accessibility of generic drugs. I have already written to President Prodi about some of the aspects raised by these medics. While considering funding and support which is available under the EU budget for the HIV/AIDS prevention and eradication programme, we should try and get greater synergy between the donor organisations and the recipient agencies and perhaps the pharmaceutical companies as well.
(Dublin West): That aid should not be introduced by multinational companies to make profits—
I will make the points about generic drugs. The real issue is one of co-ordination. Enormous distances are involved and it is extremely difficult for those involved to meet. If the donor organisations could see it from their perspective we could achieve some improvement. Having said that, many people are putting many resources into this area, although this is falling short in terms of what is happening, particularly given the talk about an entire generation being wiped out in the next ten years.
Does the Taoiseach agree that Deputy Joe Higgins's question raises a genuine ethical dilemma for the developed world? Does he agree that there are drugs which can be produced and made available at a minimal cost and which would save the lives of up to 23 million Africans who will otherwise die from AIDS in the next five years? Does the Taoiseach agree that the only reason they are not being made available is because of patent law being enforced by the EU and the USA? Does he agree that a solution must be found to this by providing the WHO with the means of buying out some of these patents and making them available free of charge to manufacturers in Africa who could produce these drugs? It is accepted that drugs companies must be compensated, but surely it is necessary to find a mechanism, such as the WHO providing a fund to buy out patents and compensating companies, so that these lives can be saved. These people cannot be brought back to life five years from now when the patent runs out.
If it was that simple perhaps somebody else would have thought of it.
It is not simple.
Most of the development bodies – the WHO, the EU, the UN – are on the ground, and from my experience and from listening to people I thought there could be better co-ordination. An enormous amount of money is going to some communities, although not all communities and not rural communities. I have written to President Prodi, and have raised the issue with Commissioner Byrne. The matter also concerns other commissioners, namely, Commissioner de Palacio and Commissioner Patten. Perhaps more could be done if an attempt was made to use the resources from the donor countries and bilateral and multilateral aid, and I will explore this possibility. In the context of the drugs, I am not sure about the WHO—
It does not have the necessary funds to do it. It need funds.
I will raise that matter with the commissioner as part of the discussions when it is possible to do so.
The Taoiseach acknowledged that he was the first Taoiseach to visit Lesotho in the context of 25 years of continuous Irish aid. Is he of the view that aid should be conditional on the strengthening of democratic structures and civic society in the country in future, having regard to the fact that the country has gone backwards rather than forward in this context?
As in all these cases I am reluc tant to say that should be done, because in the end the poor people will suffer. The Deputy's basic point is correct: the democratic system in the country must change. The Prime Minister and President of the country gave me assurances in terms of the all-party talks which are taking place to try to overcome the difficulties which arose in autumn 1998 when war broke out again following the general election. A system in which the Opposition won one or did not win any seats is clearly not acceptable.
That is what Deputy Dempsey wants to introduce here.
Have a little more confidence.
The system which gave such a result is about to go, I think, and the parties have collectively agreed on a Parliament with 130 seats and a new system of voting and government. I hope, and was assured by many of the international figures, that this system will be in place by the summer.