Vol. 513 No. 2
3 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs the individual with the contract for the delivery of social welfare payments since 1 January 2000; his views on whether the contract for delivery of these services with An Post should be and will be renewed. [1852/00]
The contract under which An Post supplies payments delivery services to my Department reached the end of its term on 31 December last. As the Deputy is aware, the Government had previously decided the term of this contract should be extended for a further three years, 2000 to 2002 inclusive. In accordance with the Government's decision, my Department and An Post commenced negotiations regarding the detailed business terms and conditions which would apply to this business arrangement during the period of the extension.
Certain legal issues regarding the extension of the contract have been raised with the EU Commission by a third party which feels aggrieved by the Government's decision. In accordance with its usual practice in these matters, the Commission referred these complaints to my Department for its observations. Responses to complaints and the complex legal issues upon which they are based have been sent to the Commission. I understand the Commission is currently examining the arguments advanced by the complainant and the observations supplied by my Department. The outcome of this process will be notified to my Department in due course.
The Deputy will understand that the necessity to address and resolve the issues raised with the EU Commission has delayed the completion of a new three year contract. When these issues have been resolved my Department and An Post will resume negotiations with a view to having a new contract in place at the earliest possible date.
Needless to say, the Government intends to fully comply with its EU obligations in this matter. As I have already stated in the House I am confident the Government decision to extend the existing arrangements with An Post will stand up to scrutiny. In the meantime, recognising that the payment delivery service which An Post provides to my Department's customers must continue without interruption, my Department and An Post have agreed that the company will continue to provide these services on an interim basis. The Commission has been notified accordingly.
Is it not clear that we are in a legal limbo since the contract with An Post expired on 31 December, given that the Minister is unable to put a new contract in place? Does the Minister accept that the U-turn on his part has contributed to that legal tangle? Does he agree that he has landed his Department and An Post in this mess because of the stand he took in September 1998 when he argued that the contract had to go to public tender? Does he accept that this situation is putting rural post offices at grave risk and that he is exposed to legal action which could succeed?
I totally reject the Deputy's assertion. Over the period we have examined the issue which was effectively batted into the future by the previous Government, of which the Deputy was a member, when it decided to extend the contract for a three year period with the pro viso that at the end of that period, which we have now reached, the new contract would be put to tender. Officials in my Department were working to a certain extent on the basis that we would have to put the contract out to tender. It was only with the involvement of myself, the Minister for Public Enterprise and the Taoiseach that an initiative was taken to examine the matter in more detail from a legal point of view. The advice of the then Attorney General was sought and based on that advice the Government decided to renew the contract with An Post. Therefore, the decision had a firm legal standing. The new Attorney General who has examined the issue anew has given similar advice. Therefore, as far as the Government is concerned the decision to conclude a contract with An Post for another three years will stand up to scrutiny. In the meantime delivery of payments will continue on an interim basis.
Will the Minister admit that in a meeting with the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, on 1 September 1998 he argued that the contract had to be put to tender, that he was obliged by EU procurement regulations to put the contract to tender? Does he accept that in that situation he has given the ammunition to this outside company to haul him before the EU Commission? Does he accept this is the original basis of the problem? Does he agree that the delay in opening negotiations with An Post has also contributed to the legal limbo in which we now find ourselves? At that time, September 1998, according to documentation which has been released under the Freedom of Information Act, he said that it was proposed to issue a tender in the second quarter of 1999. When did negotiations open with An Post?
The document does not contain quotes from me, but points for discussion. It was given to me in anticipation of what I might say at the meeting.
Is the Minister saying that he did not use it?
It does not necessarily mean that I related these points at the meeting.
What did the Minister say?
I have my own views on this issue which I have held for a long time.
Is the Minister denying that he used the briefing note?
My colleagues in Government and I are adamant that we retain as many rural post offices as possible. The Deputy may not want to do that.
We raised a political storm when we discovered what the Minister was doing.
We made a decision and the way the Deputy is addressing this issue in some way suggests that Fine Gael and the Opposition generally wish to close all rural post offices.
The Minister backed off. If he had his way, all rural post offices would close.
The Deputy criticises us for making the decision to renew the contract which will save rural post offices. He must put up or shut up.
The Minister should get out of this mess or resign.
That is the reality and at the end of the day it is up to the Government to govern. It can take advice from officials.
The Minister should get himself out of the mess he has created.
