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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 17 Feb 2000

Vol. 514 No. 5

Planning and Development Bill, 1999 [ Seanad ] : Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I welcome the Bill, which is comprehensive and consolidating by nature, but a number of amendments need to be made to it. I have a number of suggestions to put to the Minister during my contribution and on Committee Stage. It is a pity that Members have only 20 minutes to make a contribution because one could spend that amount of time discussing each section because it is such detailed legislation and all of us have a huge interest in it.

I have serious concerns about the blanket removal of the exemption for turf cutting and peat extraction from the provisions in the legislation. Both of these practices are of major economic importance to the midlands with thousands of jobs directly or indirectly reliant on them. A number of small farmers are employed by Bord na Móna on a seasonal or full-time basis. Their farms would be uneconomic without such off-farm income. Four peat fired power stations, namely Lanesboro, Shannonbridge, Ferbane and Rhode, are currently under threat of closure following a recent International Energy Agency report on Ireland. The Minister for Public Enterprise has done little to allay those fears. If additional regulations and restrictions in regard to peat extraction are put in place, it would further compound the viability of these plants and the new peat fired power station which is about to be commissioned in County Offaly. Many small commercial producers have invested heavily in equipment and the development of bogs and their livelihoods are in jeopardy as a result of this legislation.

A farmer who lives near me has developed his own bogs and has reared his family on the income he has earned from saving and selling turf. Four of his eight children attended university and he was able to fund their education through the living he earned from cutting turf on his own bog. The Minister is introducing legislation which will restrict that practice. The problem lies in section 2, page 17, lines 17 to 23. This section provides definitions which are referred to later in the Bill. The definition of "agriculture" has been changed from that in the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act, 1963, by omitting any reference to the use of turbary.

Given that agriculture is exempted development and the Bill does not further refer to turbary, it is, therefore, no longer exempted from the planning controls as forming part of agriculture in the normal sense. While this explanation may be complex, it equates the requirement of planning permission for turf extraction and boglands, thereby removing a long held right of people to cut turf and greatly restrict the traditional right of turbary, which many families hold and which is unique to Ireland. If the Bill remains in its current format, it would then fall to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to enact regulations which would exempt some turf cutting from the requirement to seek planning permission.

However, two further issues must be taken into consideration. First, the recent case of the European Commission vs. Ireland on 21 September 1999 in which Ireland was held to have failed to properly transpose the environmental impact assessment directive, 1985, by failing to assess its effects on the environment of afforestation projects under 70 hectares and peat extraction projects in sensitive bogland areas. One element of the judgment regarding the need for an EIS on sensitive bogs has already been resolved through the introduction of two regulations, namely SIs 22 and 23 of 1999. The second element of the judgment, which expressed concern about the cumulative effect of a number of small projects, could be resolved through the county development plan.

Second, as many people involved in the campaign against the implementation of the habitats directive have realised, the interpretation of any regulations set down by the Minister of the day can be re-interpreted at a future date. For example, Deputy Michael D. Higgins, who signed the Habitats Directive when he was Minister, recently informed an Oireachtas committee which debated the issue that it was his intention when he signed it that it would only prohibit the use of sausage machines on designated bogs, not stopping turf cutting on these bogs completely.

This is not how the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands interprets the directive currently and a similar problem may arise at a future date regarding the interpretation of this legislation in terms of the regulations on turf cutting. Requiring impact assessments of small bogs would prevent extraction due to the cost of such assessment versus the value of the turf which would be extracted. Large tracts of bogland in the midlands have already been designated special areas of conservation and if this legislation is enacted in its current form, it would sterilise further large tracts of bogland with a major impact on the rural economy of these areas.

The European Union cannot be allowed to override Irish rural life to the detriment of those who are forced out of their communities into major urban centres. This completely contradicts its stated policy of rural development. However, the EU is willing to take the economic significance of its directives into consideration and provide opt-out clauses to member states if they are willing to make a case on behalf of the people affected. A Minister who introduces legislation such as this and whose sole argument for its introduction is the fulfilment of EU directives is clearly indicating that he is incapable of making a case on behalf of the people and he should consider his position.

The Government has adopted a policy of rural proofing, which it claims will assess all policy and legislation to ensure that it will not impact to the detriment of rural life and its traditions. This Bill was not rural proofed and the Minister is taking a jaundiced view of EU directives by not seeking a balance between environmental concerns and the traditional rights of the people. There have been numerous debates in the House on the habitats directives and the preservation of bogland. Over the years, it has been stated that we need to conserve our bogs and the flora and fauna in them. Large tracts of land have been designated for conservation. If people who live in areas surrounded by bog, which is worthless and much of which is ploughed by Bord na Móna anyway, can earn a little income from it they should not be prevented from doing so.

The Minister stated that he will exempt turf cutting for domestic use from the requirement to seek planning permission. I hope the Minister will bring forward an amendment on Committee Stage to define that, because the people affected will not stand by and allow him to bring in regulations when the legislation is passed which can be interpreted to the liking of somebody who wants to make a point at some future time. The Minister must write into the legislation the restrictions he wants to put in place and ensure that small rural communities can produce small levels of turf on a commercial basis.

An issue relevant to my constituency is planning permission along the river Shannon. It is extremely difficult for young couples to get planning permission in parishes along the banks of the river Shannon. If the top of a chimney would be seen through the trees from a boat on the river, the local authority will refuse the planning application. We all want to ensure that communities are supported in rural Ireland yet we are forcing these young people out of their own communities because they are unable to obtain planning permission. Once an organisation in Dublin sees a planning application in a townland along the River Shannon, it immediately lodges an objection without even seeing the site or the way it will impact on the Shannon. These bodies are not accountable to anyone, yet they can dictate to communities up and down the River Shannon in terms of where they can and cannot build.

Every Member of this House has had visits from young couples who received a letter from their local authority on the last day of the two months period requesting further information. Much of the time the further information has already been supplied and the only reason for the request is that the local authority does not have the staff or the ability to deal with the process. Rather than giving a decision within two months, the authority gives them the decision within four months. I know the Minister will address this issue in the legislation and will restrict the waiting time to a certain extent, but there will be an increase in the length of time people have to wait for planning permission which is delayed by stupid queries from the local authority. These queries are designed to give the planning officer more time to examine the file.

There are serious problems in local authorities in terms of the ability of staff to deal with planning applications. In my electoral area we have had five planning officers in the past 12 months. The latest planning officer is only just out of college and when she is making a decision on whether to grant planning permission, she refers to her text book. It is not acceptable for somebody just out of college to have the responsibility of a planning officer and to use a text book to decide whether to grant planning permission or to decide the conditions she will impose.

An example of this ludicrous situation is that in rural areas, according to the text books, houses should have traditional small windows. This planning officer has given planning permission for a house which has six small narrow windows on the front, which is supposed to blend in with the rural area, while every other house around it has big bay windows. It is the most stupid decision I have ever come across, but that is what it says in the text book and that is the restriction she will put in place. It is ludicrous that planning officers are now deciding the type of glass that should be put into the window of a house.

Another aspect concerns pillars on the porch of a house. In my electoral area, the planning authority will not allow concrete columns on the porch of a house yet it allowed a house to be erected with six two-storey high columns. These are big, white monstrosities. The house looks like the Southfork ranch we saw on "Dallas" many years ago. This was allowed by the local authority because when conditions are imposed, they are not followed up. Roscommon County Council has not ever taken a case against any builder or householder who has broken the planning con ditions, and anyone who has applied for retention has received it. There are a number of elements to the reason for that but that is the position in my local authority. A slatted house was built beside a householder, not the width of this Chamber away from his house, yet an application was lodged for retention of planning permission and was granted. That means that other people are losing their rights because the local authority does not have the ability or the powers to enforce the regulations as they stand. I know the Minister has examined this issue in the legislation and I hope we will see change in it.

I refer to cowboy developers who come in, slap up six or eight houses in an estate and take off again without completing it. These estates end up looking like somewhere in Bosnia rather than Ireland. Yet, when these builders apply to the local authority for planning permission for another development, it is granted. As for the bonding system, that is a complete joke because the moneys involved would not be sufficient to carry out the work if the local authority took it over. Serious restrictions must be put in place for this type of development. A developer should not be allowed to re-apply to a planning authority for additional planning permission without having met all the conditions of the previous application to the satisfaction of the local authority. It is ludicrous that estates are left unfinished and I hope that problem will be addressed in this legislation. However, what about the estates that have been left unfinished to date? This legislation is not retrospective and those estates will be left high and dry. The local authorities washed their hands of them because they do not want anything to do with this type of estate.

There is a major problem with the management structure of local authorities. I am a member of a local authority but I have no say in planning applications. The only say I have as a local authority member is in the county development plan and the officials will re-phrase that document to suit themselves and then take a completely new interpretation of the plan when it is completed. Part of the problem is that we, as local authority members, have allowed management to pull the wool over our eyes. The system currently in place, where we are a glorified rubber stamp, is a disgrace. People do not realise that their elected public representatives have no say in what goes on and that the county manager dictates to us. The planning officials, county engineer and county manager come together to decide what course to take. What the local authority members say or do makes no difference.

We also need to examine the situation regarding amenities. There are instances of local authorities, like private developers, developing estates without amenities. I am aware of one estate, started 25 years ago, which does not have a green area even though there are 1,000 houses in the development. There are many social problems in the estate and the buck stops with the local authority. It reneged on its duty to those people.

There will be a better opportunity to discuss the Bill's provisions in detail on Committee Stage. I commend the Bill to the House.

I congratulate the Minister on producing this Bill at such speed. He is at the coalface of the problems and challenges created by our economic success. He has the difficult task of providing housing in adequate time to fulfil the needs, wishes and ambitions of a new generation of people who wish to be housed in the same type of accommodation enjoyed by their parents' generation. It is a huge challenge but the Minister has met it with great speed and innovation. This is a time for innovative measures in this area.

Existing planning legislation has been described as a "crank's charter" and the Minister and his Department are to be complimented on their comprehensive revision and consolidation of planning law which will provide the positive legislative framework within which the Government's major initiatives on housing and infrastructure incorporated in the development plan can be effectively brought to fruition. Of the projected £40.6 billion to be spent in the national development plan, £21 billion or just over 50% will be invested in social and economic infrastructure. This is an average annual spend of £3 billion.

This means we must get our planning laws and structures in order. More than 42,000 houses were completed in 1998, a record in itself. The number of planning permissions for housing in 1998 was up 27% on 1997 and continued to grow during 1999. This will ensure continued output growth. However, we need to identify bottlenecks wherever they occur and speedily take the necessary measures to eliminate them. This applies not only to planning but throughout the economy and economic life.

There is growing concern that simply changing planning law and procedures will not suffice. Planning guidelines on residential density, issued last September, will ensure more efficient use of serviced development land, facilitate provision of more affordable housing and promote sustainable development. Local authorities and An Bord Pleanála are required by law to have regard to these guidelines. I hope they will take them on board. My experience in the private sector with Esat Digifone is that sometimes the guidelines are not taken on board. I hope the Minister will strengthen them where necessary or translate them into regulations if that is required to speed up the provision of housing.

A major expansion of social housing is planned with an expenditure of £6 billion over the next six years, compared to £2.4 billion spent over the past six years. It is an impressive amount. The Government's housing and infrastructural programmes in the national plan have received a broad welcome from the construction industry. This positive reaction is exemplified in the recent annual review from Patterson, Kempster and Shortall, who are reputable commentators as well as practitioners in the industry. They are particularly complimentary about the introduction of multi-annual planning and the positive benefits this brings to the sector.

It creates a stable set of parameters within which individual firms can plan without having to factor in a major risk element relating to possible changes in Government policy. The construction sector welcomes the certainty provided by this Government's policies. It can now be further reassured by the provisions of this Bill which set out clearly the statutory framework within which their business plans can be implemented. The measures in the Bill, designed to streamline the planning system and speed up the processing of planning applications, will assist in ensuring that delays to necessary housing developments are minimised.

Not only are financial resources being committed to solving housing and infrastrucutral problems but they are also being supported by the commitment of additional human resources. Additional staffing has been provided in local authority planning departments. Staff numbers are now 14% higher than in 1998 in the planning departments of cities and surrounding counties with further increases in the pipeline.

However, there is developing concern that one of the major impediments to rapid housing and infrastrucutral development is a growing shortage of qualified town planners. An article in The Irish Times today by William K. Nowlan argues that although the country has 300 qualified planners, the current and projected developments require at least 700 to 750 town planners if projects are not to suffer undue delay. The UCD school of town planning is the only establishment turning out planners in the State and it has a current output of 20 to 25 planners per annum. If Mr. Nowlan's contention is correct or only partly correct, it creates a major difficulty for the fulfilment of many important aspects of the national plan. I hope the Minister, in partnership with the Minister for Education and Science, will examine this issue.

Planning authorities and developers are critically dependent on the professional services and experience of qualified town planners to prepare and evaluate development plans for housing and infrastructure. The number of planning applications has increased enormously, as has their level of detail and complexity. Potential litigation under any of a number of headings is a growing consideration for all involved in the process. This inevitably leads to longer times taken to process individual planning applications.

In recent years the Government has moved swiftly and effectively to deal with identified resource constraints in the economy, both in the public and private sectors. It would be advisable for the Minister for the Environment and Local Government and the Minister for Education and Science to collaborate with UCD and other colleges in instituting a crash programme for the production of town planners. This was done in the courts some years ago when serious delays were being experienced within the system. There was a crash programme of education to provide sufficient personnel to clear the backlogs. This is an obvious paradigm for what could be done in relation to the planning system.

Membership of An Bord Pleanála has been increased from six to ten. The board has also received significant additional staffing with staff numbers up from 70 in 1995, under the rainbow Government, to 105 in 1999. The board's Exchequer grant has almost doubled in the same period. All housing and apartment development appeals of more than 50 units are being allocated priority status by An Bord Pleanála at all stages. Appeals are being monitored on a weekly basis by the chief officer and priority is being given to processing housing cases.

I urge the Minister to ensure, through the creative provisions of this Bill, that this progress is maintained and that no delays are attributable to a lack of human or financial resources at the board. The provisions of section 105 in relation to the employment of other than permanent full-time staff could and should be availed of in this regard. The section might be amended to enable the employment of staff in a short-term capacity.

The Joint Committee on the Environment and Local Government heard a worrying testimony yesterday from Mr. Michael Tobin, chief executive of the National Roads Authority. His testimony was to the effect that the domestic construction sector did not have the capacity to undertake many of the major infrastructural projects in the national development plan and that only projects over a certain size – for example, £100 million – would be successful in attracting foreign contractors. Here, clearly, is another bottleneck waiting to be tackled. It must be tackled. Not only will failure to tackle it result in delays in projects in the national plan but the inexorable laws of economics mean that where demand outstrips supply there will be major inflationary pressures in this sector.

The necessity for a comprehensive and integrated range of initiatives to address unfulfilled demand in the housing market through measures on house pricing, removal of constraints and delays to investment, fiscal measures and measures to assist housing affordability will be significantly assisted by the passage of this Bill. While not wishing to diminish or play down other important components of the Bill, the statutory framework to be put in place in relation to housing supply is of the utmost importance. It is a clear indication of the Government's recognition of housing as a continuing priority.

The commitment to a comprehensive housing policy will maximise housing output and supply and promote affordable housing for all. It will free up land for development through the serviced land initiative which was introduced in 1997. Exchequer funding of £39 million is being provided towards water and sewerage schemes to open up land for residential development. Total investment, including local development levies, will come to £100 million. The initiative will yield 100,000 sites by the end of this year. Approximately 100 schemes commenced construction in 1999 producing over 60,000 serviced sites. A further 43 schemes are due to commence this year yielding a further 35,000 sites. Local authorities are being asked to allow the use of temporary waste water treatment facilities to allow development to commence in advance of permanent facilities. For example, in Dublin's north fringe this has the potential to bring forward up to 16,000 sites for construction in advance of completion of the north fringe interceptor sewer in 2002. These measures exemplify the Government's creative approach to resolving planning bottlenecks in the housing development process.

There were 4,500 local authority housing starts in 1999, the highest level since 1986. A multi-annual local authority housing programme of 22,000 starts over a four year period from 2000 to 2003 will commence this year. The authorities are being notified of their starts under the programme. Net local authority need has increased by 40% from 27,400 in 1996 to 39,100 at present, which underlines the urgency of the multi-annual programme and the accelerated social housing programme. The commitment to increase local authority housing stock by an additional 22,000 dwellings to be built over the next four years will have a major impact, especially on disadvantaged areas. The various provisions should reinforce and further facilitate planning authorities in major urban areas to rapidly develop both private and identified surplus State lands through the creation of temporary water and sewerage treatment facilities and by application of the recently announced high density guidelines to rapidly boost housing supply.

It is also heartening to see that statutory provision is being made to ensure that planning authorities are permitted to take the necessary measures to counteract undue segregation in housing between persons of different social backgrounds. The continuing economic boom with the associated and inevitable differential impact on incomes renders positive action on social inclusion and cohesiveness all the more necessary. I support this initiative because I represent a constituency which manifests some of the worst planning mistakes and blight from earlier decades. Planning for socially integrated housing is an important element in promoting such cohesiveness. I trust planning authorities will learn from their past mistakes in the planning of housing schemes and use the building provisions in a creative fashion which will attempt to remedy past deficiencies and prevent their repetition in future.

It is no accident that the area I represent developed as it did. It was severely badly planned, disgracefully so in many ways. It is an example of the type of bad planning we now hope is a thing of the past. I know the Minister is committed to high quality standards in the planning process. I make a late appeal to him to address the issue of in-fill housing and perhaps even issue a guideline to local authorities about how they should deal with in-fill housing. There is a patchy record in terms of individual authorities. One can have an in-fill application rejected on the same street as a person who could have their application accepted very quickly. That is an issue the Minister should address as well as the development of mews housing in back laneways of older, more traditional and now privately owned local authority housing. This is exemplified in areas such as Walkinstown and Greenhills where this type of development could bring new housing stock into commission. I conclude my comments on that and commend the Bill to the House.

Good planning and housing play a major role in the type of society we have and will have in future. I was interested by some of Deputy Lenihan's comments about the availability of qualified planners. I am in favour of qualifications and education. However, some areas of Dublin which are now famous and which I represent, such as Dalkey, Dún Laoghaire, Blackrock and Glasthule, or other areas, such as Malahide on the northside of Dublin, were developed many years ago when we did not have local authorities similar in size to those which exist today, or fully qualified personnel in planning departments. Nonetheless, a village atmosphere and communities within those villages were achieved. Much of that was based on common sense. There was mixed development and people supporting communities within a community. We have lost our way in terms of the type of development which is now taking place.

I was first elected to a local authority in 1974 and, at that stage, the development plan which brought about Tallaght and Clondalkin was in place. It was obvious that we were zoning land where there were pipes, but people forgot about communities which had to develop within these regions. For many years, couples were left without basic facilities. There was no co-ordination in the provision of public transport or shopping facilities. Large blocks of local authority housing were situated in the one area with up to 85% unemployment within communities. This was supposed to be good planning and the creation of new towns to support the greater Dublin area. However, planning is about people and politicians are public representatives. We are supposed to represent people.

There is much that is good in the Bill and good planning and housing dictate the type of society we will have in future. However, we are trying to ignore reality and the fact that we still have a local government structure which does not have a say in the provision of transport, what type of service the transport company, be it public or private, provides and whether there will be a connection between developed areas. It is plainly obvious that there is a lack of a spatial plan. Dublin is becoming choked. While there is Luas and public-private partnerships, the reality is that we are shoving the boundaries out further with no transport mechanism to match it. If there is a spatial plan, the infrastructure is installed to enable it to be put in place, serviced land and a transport system which works are then provided and then the powers of the local authority are examined.

There are many rules and regulations in the Bill governing planning and housing. There is a lot to be said for housing strategies and incorporating them into development plans. There can be as many housing strategies as one would wish for, but if local authorities are starved of resources, have no power and have no input into the public transport system, they will not work. Dublin is becoming crowded. My side of Dublin is now moving out as far as Greystones, and the northside and the west are moving out to Navan, Carlow, Kilkenny and Kildare with everyone travelling to the city centre to work.

The Bill makes provision for 20% of developed land to be set aside for affordable and social housing, but what is to be done with local authorities such as Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council or Dublin Corporation which have no land? What housing strategies will provide houses for the people who are living in appalling conditions in the areas to which I referred? What will happen to these people where house prices are soaring and one pays a minimum of £160,000, £170,000 or £180,000 for a three bedroom semi-detached house? Recently a local authority house was sold in my area for £170,000. If the Minister provides a housing strategy which will be incorporated into the development plan of Dún Laoighaire-Rathdown County Council, there will be a need to build houses on the Dublin mountains. Land which is currently zoned for amenity purposes will be plastered with houses because that local authority will have to provide a housing strategy.

There are more than 2,000 people on the Dún Laoighaire-Rathdown County Council housing list and, if my memory is correct, the council will build between 40 and 50 houses this year. It was easier to get a local authority house based on the points system in 1976 than it is in 2000. There are people with three children, who have maximum medical points, who live in grossly overcrowded conditions, have been six years on the housing list and are placed 60th or 70th on the waiting list. A housing strategy incorporated into the development plan will not solve the problems of such people who live in the Dún Laoighaire-Rathdown County Council area.

All this assumes that each local authority has plenty of land available and they have the luxury of deciding in advance how many acres will be zoned, but this will change the face of Dublin. There will be high density housing everywhere. If a local authority is to meet its obligations as provided for under the Bill, it will have to start rezoning land which is currently zoned for amen ity purposes. What sort of society will there be then? Will it be the case that one will be unable to even walk up the Dublin mountains to get a bit of fresh air because the place will be jammed with houses, or will the local authorities be unable to provide parks such as those which they have been providing over the past 20 years? This will be the Dublin scenario, whatever about counties which have plenty of land available where the strategy may work.

The other provision which involves an obligation to provide 20% of land for affordable and social housing is a good aspiration. I am in favour of providing houses at a reasonable price for young couples in particular, but the reality is that if a person owns 100 acres and must give the houses on 20 of them away at a cheaper price, the price of the houses on the other 80 acres will increase because the landowner or developer will not carry the 20% on his or her shoulders.

For the purpose of qualification for a mortgage, in terms of the 35% eligibility test, it is defined as a loan for 90% of the price of the dwelling. Therefore, it is a vicious circle. This will increase house prices and as a result more people in the Dublin region will be shoved into the category of qualifying for affordable housing because they cannot get housing anywhere else. That means there will be a need for more land for affordable housing. In the meantime, the people who are in the 80% bracket and who are getting mortgages from building societies or banks will pay more for their houses. They will need bigger loans and this will cause untold damage in terms of stress and both partners having to work for the rest of their lives even though they may not want to do so. This is the reality of life and it all boils down to the fact that we have not provided the infrastructure which will enable people to live within 30 or 40 miles of this city or to work in other cities which should be developed. People should be able to live in a decent environment without choking Dublin city further with ever-increasing developments, fewer open spaces and higher density.

Until we face up to this, the position in Dublin will be critical. If I leave my home ten miles away at 7.45 a.m. or 8 a.m., I would not reach Leinster House until 9.15 a.m. That is an hour and a half in choked traffic. The situation is such that in order to purchase a house young people are being forced to move to Greystones, for example, and the distance they must travel to work is longer. Although the extension of the DART to Greystones will be welcomed by many people, by the time a person tries to get on board at Bray, Dalkey or Glenageary the carriages will be full. The time spent travelling from places such as Greystones to Dublin city in the morning would be anything from an hour and a half to two hours on a bad morning and one must face the same delays going home in the evening. If there were properly developed towns and cities with infrastructure and serviced land, one could commute from or live and conduct business in these new cities and towns rather than have young people in the future face such poor quality of life.

It is a total waste of time to have the Minister sitting here because he does not listen to a word, but some day perhaps someone might wish to read the record. I am just outlining my practical experience over 26 years in public life.

I heard every word the Deputy said.

If the Minister can hold a conversation with somebody and listen to someone else speak across a room, he is a better man that I am.

The Deputy is swallowing the Irish Home Builders Association line—

I am not. I never follow anybody.

—hook, line and sinker.

I came in here not like others with supplied scripts given to the Minister by his Department to be read out but with a few notes and my practical experience of 26 years.

The Deputy is taking the IHBA line.

I am not proposing any line and I reject that comment.

He can reject it all he likes.

I am not in the vested interest business like the Minister.

That is exactly what every other Fine Gael Deputy said.

They might be right.

The Minister is right and everybody else is wrong, is that it?

The Deputy must have got the IHBA letter.

The Minister got it too.

Deputy Barrett to continue.

Of course the Minister is right – that is why he does not listen to anybody – and everybody else is wrong. The reality is that if he talked to young couples in my area—

I do regularly.

I have not seen the Minister out that way yet but if he does come out, I will be only too pleased to introduce him to many young people who are facing a serious problem because they cannot get a house from a local authority, they cannot purchase a house and they have no prospect of getting a house in the future. My job as a Member of the Dáil is to bring forward solutions which I think might work, regardless of whether the Minister likes them. I am not following the line of any vested interest group, I am expressing the views of people who are deeply concerned for themselves, their children and their grandchildren. It is as simple as that. There is no point in including provisions in a Bill which, as I said at the outset, contains many good provisions but which will not work in a place like Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council or Dublin Corporation – together they represent about one third of the population. All I am saying is that this might work in Meath or Laois but it will not work in Dublin. There are structures in place which are making matters worse because public transport does not cater for the existing problems. In 1997 one of my daughters bought a house between Bray and Greystones where there is no public transport system. She paid £87,000 for a three bedroom semi-detached house off the plans in a new housing estate. By the time she moved into it in February 1998, the same house cost £110,000. Today, two years later, it costs £150,000 to £160,000.

The Minister is asking the local authority which serves my area to draw up a housing strategy and to incorporate it into a development plan to provide for the needs of the people of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown council, but it does not have the land to do so without rezoning all of the Dublin Mountains. That, in itself, will affect the quality of life of everybody in the greater Dublin region, in Wicklow and, indeed, throughout the country. That is not a line from any lobby group.

This is a housing authority with 2,000 people on the housing list but it does not have the houses or the land on which to build houses. We keep pretending that each local authority will be a housing authority but they cannot if they do not have the land or the houses to house the people for whom they are responsible.

No Bill will be able to manufacture land. We are trying to provide—

I am offering the Minister an alternative view. He may not agree with me but that is democracy. I accept the Minister is in the hot seat at the moment but my job is to say what I think. I am not here to speak for anybody but to say what I think is needed to solve the problems of the future. There is no point pretending we will wake up tomorrow morning to find God has made more land in the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown council area or in the area controlled by Dublin Corporation because that will not happen.

If a person wants a local authority house because they cannot afford to buy one, they will go to the Dublin Corporation or Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown housing department which will hand them a form to fill in. They will then go on a housing list and will wait on it for the next ten to 15 years unless we do something about it.

We cannot deal with planning in isolation. If we are to develop new towns, we must develop them commercially as well, so people will have work. If they do not have work, they will commute. If they are going to commute, we must provide some type of transport, either by building more roads or by providing public transport. I am not knocking everything in the Bill but its provisions, which will be enacted, will do nothing for the people who face a huge problem in the Dublin area and who will face a greater one in the future.

I take this opportunity to welcome the Planning and Development Bill in terms of what it will do to regulate planning and development over the next ten to 15 years. The speed at which the economy has grown in the past five to six years highlights the need to update planning and development more regularly than has been the case to date. There have not been too many planning Bills since 1963 when the original master planning Act was introduced.

Debate adjourned.
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