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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 13 Jun 2000

Vol. 521 No. 1

Adjournment Debate. - Status of Kilkenny.

Mr. Aylward: I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for allowing me raise this matter. I also thank the Ceann Comhairle who is a proud Kilkenny man, having served as Mayor on several occasions and having represented the city and county since 1961 in the House. I also thank the Minister for being here after a particularly long day, and for the willingness and speed with which he has arranged to meet a deputation from Kilkenny Corporation tomorrow night, led by the Mayor and joined by my Oireachtas colleagues. Despite the several personal political attacks on him over recent weeks, the Minister has acted with great haste, for which I thank him. I also thank him for the letter of clarification which was issued by his Department yesterday and which helped defuse much of the situation in Kilkenny.
This is the biggest single issue of contention since the closure of the Fieldcrest factory with a loss of 650 jobs over 20 years ago. There was shock and anger among the people of Kilkenny when news broke that the status of Kilkenny city was being downgraded, and there was a depth of feeling and resentment. Kilkenny people share a serious pride. We have excelled on the hurling field and are very proud. The outburst, which I had not seen in Kilkenny for a long time, led to over 20,000 signatures being collected, including mine and that of my colleagues from Kilkenny, expressing concern and dissatisfaction that the status of city would be in any way reduced.
Kilkenny is known as a city locally, nationally and internationally. "Ye Fair City" appears on its coat of arms. The term "marble city" is used widely, while there are sporting clubs called Kilkenny City, something of which we are very proud. The city is a source of community, business, sporting and civic pride. There is a cherished link to the historical royal charter of 1609, and "city" has been the working title for Kilkenny for approximately 400 years. The history continued through the Confederation of Kilkenny in 1642 when it became the seat of the confederate parliament of Ireland and all the responsibilities associated with parliament were administered from Kilkenny, something of which we are also very proud.
I accept that local government legislation needs to be modernised and updated. The new Local Government Bill will do this after a period of 100 years. The Minister is to be highly commended as one of the most reforming Ministers in the Department for many years. The Bill's many welcome provisions, however, have been overshadowed by the controversy in Kilkenny. While I accept the terminology used in local government legislation needs to be updated, I wish to drive home the point that modernisation should not break links with the past. Kilkenny is not seeking county borough status but, equally, it is emphatic that there should be no interference with its current position. It must be free to continue ancient and valued traditions. I do not want to give the impression that I am comparing Kilkenny to the other four boroughs; it is unique. This should be taken into account.
The people of Kilkenny are a proud people. Four centuries of tradition provides an enormous local resource which should be recognised, valued and nurtured. I am sure the Minister will take local feeling into account and that we will come an arrangement when he meets the deputation tomorrow evening. A meeting of minds on both sides will ensure the matter can be dealt with in a civilised fashion. Certain amendments to sections 10 and 11 of the Bill will be proposed to preserve the status of Kilkenny as a city. The Minister is seeking to improve the democratic process but it is the wish of the people of Kilkenny that its status as a city should not be interfered with.
The founder of my party and that of the Minister was awarded the freedom of Kilkenny city. When he accepted the award he commented that he was proud and honoured to be given the freedom of such an ancient and historic city.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter and the Chair for giving us the opportunity to discuss it. When we iron out this difficulty which is a source of major concern for the people of Kilkenny – the matter will be explained fully at the meeting tomorrow evening – perhaps, at some time in the distant future, I might join the founder of our party as a freeman of Kilkenny. The people of Kilkenny take great pride in their city. The system of local government has united them, albeit under a misapprehension. It is welcome that they have such an attachment to it.

As I said on radio – again, this might have been misinterpreted by some – it was never my intention that Kilkenny would be downgraded in the local government Bill. Having spoken to him on a number of occasions in the past week to ten days, Deputy Aylward accepts this. I accept, however, that there is a depth of feeling about the matter in Kilkenny which needs to be addressed. For that reason I immediately agreed that once I received a formal request from the corporation I would facilitate a meeting, which I am delighted to say will take place tomorrow evening and at which the matter will be discussed in a less charged atmosphere than in the columns of the local newspaper or on local radio. Generally, that is not the best way to do business.

I will listen carefully to what the deputation has to say. Deputy Aylward has put a number of legal points to me which I will consider. He has made a number of very sensible suggestions regarding the Bill which will be introduced in the autumn and which will in no way diminish the status of Kilkenny as a city. I will give careful consideration to the points which will be made at the meeting following which I am sure the matter will be resolved.

I reiterate that the Bill will not change the status of Kilkenny as a city. We are talking about two separate things. This status was granted under a charter which, like all other charters, is recognised in the Bill. I accept the point which has also been made by Deputy McGuinness that the relevant section is worded negatively. While this can be looked at, Kilkenny is not described as a city in local government legislation. This is accepted in Kilkenny which has been described by me and, probably, most people in the country as a city. This will not change under the Bill. The corporation can continue to describe it as the marble city.

As Deputy Aylward said we are seeking to modernise the language used in local government legislation in which Kilkenny is described as a borough. The term "city" has been used locally and derives from a charter granted in the early 1600s. Such local usage, custom, practice and tradition will in no way be affected by the Bill, nor have they been affected by existing legislation. I thank the Deputy for raising the matter and look forward to the meeting with public representatives and the Mayor of Kilkenny tomorrow evening to clarify the matter further.

The Dáil adjourned at 11.10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 14 June 2000.

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