Is this the Bantry airport Bill?
Aviation Regulation Bill, 2000 [ Seanad ] : Second Stage (Resumed).
Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
The Deputy should listen and he will find out.
The Government must ensure that this challenge is met to the satisfaction of all interests concerned. It must be seen to respond to the demands facing the providers of air transport and those bodies which provide the central infrastructure and services to the transport providers.
It is also of paramount importance that airlines charges would be as low as possible to drive growth in their business. It is gratifying to note that Aer Rianta has not imposed any increase on the tariffs since 1987. However, with the abolition of duty free sales at airports, this may change in the near future. It was a sad day for Aer Lingus and all the Aer Rianta staff when the duty free shops closed. The duty free service was an added value to the airports concerned and was a great help in sustaining the airline companies and ensuring that necessary enlargements took place in the airports concerned to cater for the increased volume of airport traffic.
The aviation business seems to have changed since the late 1980s with the liberalisation of air travel across Europe. The combined factors of competition and a significant increase in passenger numbers created a different climate. It is gratifying to note that since 1994, total passenger traffic has increased at an annual rate of at least 12% to 16.5 million passengers in 1999. I am pleased to note that the Government is continuing a programme of investment which was planned by the previous Government in 1995 and 1996 and major capacity enhancing projects at State airports, particularly Dublin, Cork and Shannon, initiated by the previous Government under this programme will be substantially completed at a cost of £360 million by the end of 2000.
It is vital that those three State airports are made the flagships of our aviation industry. Without those three national airports this country would be much the poorer. We have seen how Cork Airport and Shannon Airport have grown to cater for the large number of passengers who pass through them. However, I urge the Minister not to put all her eggs in the one basket and ignore the plight and demands of other regional airports. There is an increasing need for the establishment of a regional airport in the Bantry region to cater for the three peninsular areas.
I need not remind the Chair or the Ministers present that Bantry is the capital of our acquaculture and mariculture industries. The greatest impediment to those flourishing industries is the lack of a direct air link from the Bantry region to the cities of Amsterdam, Athens, Berlin, Brussels, Copenhagen, London, Paris, Prague and Rome to enable processed products from those industries to be flown in in record time to meet the needs of restaurateurs and others. Time is of the essence for the products of our acquaculture and mariculture industries. If we could establish a direct air service from Bantry to the continent, our acquaculture and mariculture industries would expand in leaps and bounds. Such an air service could be promoted to encourage tourists to visit the south-west Cork region, which everyone in Europe knows is Ireland's riviera
Bantry is the nerve centre of the south-west tourist region. One could envisage the vast potential that would accrue from tourism development, if an airport was sited in that region, which is more than 100 miles from Cork Airport. Given that the rail system serving the south west was hijacked about 50 years ago by the then Government, surely it deserves an air service to fill that vacuum. Everybody knows that south-west Cork is much the poorer since it lost its railway system, but what steps have been taken by successive Governments to make good the damage that was done to that region?
South-west Cork is much bigger than several other counties, yet it does not have one mile of national primary route, no rail service, no roll on-roll off cargo service, even though Bantry would be the ideal centre for such a cargo service to the European continent. Before the foundation of the Irish Free State Great Britain boasted that Bantry Bay could hold its entire fleet. That highlights the vast potential in that region that has been left lying dormant for almost 100 years. One can imagine the potential that exists in that area if the necessary air and sea infrastructure was created. I urge the Minister to tackle this problem immediately by giving the green light to the establishment of a regional airport in the Bantry-west Cork region.
Well said, Deputy.
Deputy Callely could then fly down for his summer holidays.
It is a pity the Minister responsible for this area is not present to hear what I have to say.
I am listening.
At least there is an able Minister of State, a fellow Corkonian, who understands the serious disadvantages under which we labour in my part of the county. I am half way to Dublin, a distance of 240 miles, when I pass the Minister of State's door in Mitchelstown
I never had the Deputy in for the tea.
Not alone would a regional airport in Bantry be of immense help to south-west Cork, it would also benefit my colleague, Deputy Healy-Rae, who resides on the north side of the mountain range in the village of Kilgarvan less than 20 miles from the area in which I am seeking to have an airport established. I hope Deputy Healy-Rae will row in behind me and back up my request for an airport to be constructed in the Bantry region which would mean he could motor across the Barreneen valley to Bantry in less than half an hour and be in Dublin within 20 minutes
I support the Deputy on that.
The Minister hinted that she will consider siting an airport in Athlone. I will be pleased for the people of Athlone and the midlands if she succeeds in doing so. The people of south-west Cork need an air service urgently to promote and foster the development of that area, which has been sadly neglected in the past. If an airport was established in that region, Deputy Callely could fly from Dublin Airport to Bantry and enjoy his summer residence in Kilcrohane peninsula.
I wholeheartedly support the Deputy.
Kerry has its regional airport in Farranfore and rightly so, as it is centred midway between Cork and Shannon, 60 miles from Cork Airport and 60 miles from Shannon Airport. Parts of the three peninsular areas I represent in south-west Cork, Beara, Mizen and Kilcrohane, are more than 100 miles from Cork Airport and that region does not have a rail service and its road infrastructure is very poor.
I recently had the opportunity to visit Grimsby in north east England on a fact finding mission on behalf of the marine industry. I understand Grimsby has a regional airport with a modern train service with ten trains passing through each day and ten outgoing and ten incoming flights per day.
What is the population of that town?
Its population is not much bigger than Bantry. I would like to bring the Minister of State to Grimsby to show him how that town has been transformed by the British Government.
We may be going beyond the terms of the Bill.
I hope the Minister agrees to my request. She stated that these policy proposals will set out a blueprint for future regulatory bodies and will be the cornerstone of ensuring public confidence in the independence and fairness of their operations. I understand that Aer Arann operates a very effective system of flights to the islands off the Galway coast and that it would be pleased to extend its service to the main islands off the Cork seaboard, Bere Island, Cape Clear and Whiddy Island, if an airport in the Bantry area was available to it.
The Minister said she included in the Bill some of the recommendations for the proposals process, such as issues of transparency, independence and accountability. If she has such issues at heart I see no reason she cannot put Bantry in its rightful place by establishing a regional airport there. I trust she will carry out her promises to the fullest extent along the lines proposed.
She also said that the commission will have regard to the necessary levels of investment in airport infrastructure, the requirement of sustainable and profitable airports and the levels of Aer Rianta's operating costs and expenses. The Minister went on to say that provision in the Bill would outline the regulatory objectives and reflect the policy concepts of the Department's strategy while also saying that section 10 outlines ministerial authority to issue policy directions of a general nature. One of the main suggestions is the inclusion of a regional dimension, which she hopes to carry out in the future.
I want to pin the Minister down to those words of transparency. When she replies I want to hear if she intends to put the Government's money where her mouth is – that is, into the regional aspect of Irish aviation. I hope she abides by her promises in this area as the regions will benefit provided she gives the services necessary to those regions.
The Minister is studying the prospect of using Baldonnel as a second airport for the Dublin area and surrounding counties. I remind her that every citizen in Ireland should be cherished equally, whether they live in Ballydehob or Ballsbridge and that we cannot all live in the confines of Dublin. We all know the serious difficulties that have arisen from the escalation of Dublin's suburbs but the Minister says she can develop two airports in Dublin. If that is the case, no region in Ireland should be left without an airport to cater for its hinterland. There are approximately 50 sections in this Bill, many of which are genuine and worthwhile, but I urge the Minister to look at the case I have outlined in a positive manner and I am looking forward to her reply to the request I have made.
The primary purpose of the Bill is to establish a new regulatory authority to be known as the Commission for Aviation Regulation and that it will carry out the regulation of charges levied at Irish airports both by Aer Rianta and those levied by the Irish Aviation Authority in respect of the services rendered to aircraft for take-off and approach. The new commission will have responsibility for policy areas such as approval of airport and air traffic controls, approval of ground handling services and service providers at airports, the granting of operating licences to air carriers established in Ireland, the administration of the rules governing the allocation of take-off and landing spots and the licensing and bonding of travel agents and tour operators.
Anything that improves the operation of the aviation industry has to be welcomed and I know the operation of aviation is in safe hands when the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, is in charge of it. Most people now have experience of travelling, but many people dread and have a fear of airports because of the sheer volume of traffic going through them. The world has become a much smaller place. My town used to be the place from which everyone left for America on boats and when one compares the length of time it took people to get to America then with flying there now, it is clear that flying has brought many countries closer. The Minister is keeping a close eye on this to ensure that the services that are provided are the best that can be achieved given the unforeseeable increase in the numbers travelling.
Aviation has definitely helped the Irish economy. Job creation always occurs near a good airport, such as Dublin, Shannon, Cork, Kerry and Galway. Even in Donegal, Carrickfin Airport – which is a state of the art facility – has helped the development of job creation, particularly for Údarás na Gaeltachta. We in Donegal have little experience of airports but the little we have had is very important and it is important that we develop Derry Airport, which is a realistic option for my area. I know there is an ongoing struggle to develop an airport at Letterkenny which I would not oppose, but realistically we have an airport 20 miles away – half an hour from my area – while Carrickfin is two hours away from me.
I thank the Minister for her assistance in ensuring the air link was re-established from Derry to Dublin. It is not perfect but is long overdue and I implore her to ensure when the public service obligation, or PSO, is given, that we get a PSO for this route. I know her Department will be fully behind us and will fully endorse our needs. It may seem strange to hear someone from one constituency fighting for something not even in this jurisdiction, but I guarantee that the development of Derry Airport would have very positive repercussions for my constituency as 33,000 people in Inishowen are within half an hour or 45 minutes of Derry Airport. Very few people in Dublin could say they are within half an hour or 45 minutes of Dublin Airport.
Access is very important for us to have the chance to create jobs and bring in tourists. The last budget removed some of the travelling charges and that was very important. In the context of cross-Border co-operation, I ask the Mini ster to contact the relevant Minister in the North to examine the issue of the charges at Derry Airport and the airports in Belfast and Antrim. This substantially increases the price of flights at present. It is probably a matter for the Treasury in England as opposed to the Executive in Northern Ireland, but I would like to think that we would assist in the case for removing charges. It is one of the crippling factors in trying to establish the Derry to Dublin Aer Arann flight. Once the price of a flight increases to £109 for what I consider an internal flight, it is too expensive.
I also implore that every effort is made to make airlines operate a system that can work. Too often flights have come into Derry with timings that could not work – flights left and returned in the middle of the day which was no good to anyone. In one sense, we have that at present. A flight leaves Dublin at 9.50 a.m. and another leaves Derry at 11.10 a.m. They are not much good to the vast majority of people who want to be in Dublin early enough to have a working day and leave late enough to get home for their tea. The timings must be appropriate and I implore the Minister, if she has a role in this regard, to apply pressure to ensure that airlines offering services provide appropriate timings. I will not support the provision of services which are no good to my constituents.
The issue of working through Derry has annoyed those in other airports, namely, the Belfast City and Aldergrove. We should send a clear message that competition is good for any industry. Competition between Derry, Belfast and Antrim is the lifeblood of all three. I would like to think that we would have assistance from the other two airports and not efforts to try to prevent Derry expanding.
In that regard, I record my sincere disappointment that the Belfast to Cork direct flight has gone. Jersey European had been running a direct flight. I understand Aer Arann might provide a flight but it would be via Birmingham. We are a small island but the time taken to travel by road and train from one place to another is too long and we need to become accustomed to the concept of hopping from one place to another within the island. I would like to think that pressure would be brought to bear – I note that two colleagues from Cork are present – to get the direct Cork to Belfast service up and running again. I am an hour and a half from Antrim and Belfast airports and the Cork to Belfast service was as good to Donegal people as it was to anyone else.
I endorse fully the advance of Carrickfinn Airport, despite the fact that it is in a different constituency and is about two hours by road from me. Deputy Sheehan explained how large County Cork is and I would like to point out how large County Donegal is. The airport in Carrickfinn does not impinge on Derry Airport and vice versa. There is room for the two and both should be developed properly.
Many of the problems with access to Donegal can be overcome within the framework of the Good Friday Agreement and I again congratulate everyone involved in that. I would like to think the position will continue to be advanced. My best role as a Deputy in my area is to keep applying pressure to Ministers such as the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, who is very sympathetic to our cause and who is also in a position to work with the relevant Ministers in the North to deal with issues such as the direct air service, the train service from Dublin to Derry or Dublin to Donegal, whichever she prefers, and ensuring with the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, the development on a cross-Border basis of the A5 road which is not in great order at present and which needs vast extensions.
I take this opportunity to express my sympathy and great sadness that Donald Dewar, the Scottish First Minister, has died. He had done a great deal for the Scottish people who have a great affinity for and links with Donegal. We would like to increase those links not only in terms of a Derry-Glasgow route and the expansion of existing services but also in terms of ferry services and direct links between Moville and Ayrshire or Scotland in general. Mr. Dewar will be very badly missed in Scotland. I hope they can overcome his loss to move on. Again I express my sympathy on his death.
I would like to think that the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, will continue to apply pressure to advance our airports. Ease of transport is very important. Having travelled recently and seen the huge numbers Dublin Airport is trying to deal with, a great deal of reshuffling can and needs to be done. I hope the Bill will assist in no small measure with the overall aviation industry. I am glad to reiterate my call not only for the Dublin-Derry service to get a PSO but also that it will be a worthwhile PSO with an economic cost and good timings. I congratulate Ryanair for the work it is doing out of Derry Airport. It is fantastic to drive for 20 minutes, get on a plane and, within an hour, be in London. If I could do the same when travelling to Dublin, I would be a very happy camper.
I look forward to the day when we have a high level of aviation use. I hope that soon, like other countries, the use of the plane here will be as common as the use of the train – a service we do not have in Donegal – the car or the bus. We are nearly at that point. I wish the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, every success in her continuing battle to provide us with the best transport service.
I wish to share my time with Deputy Olivia Mitchell. Perhaps the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will let me know when nine minutes have elapsed.
I am glad to contribute to the debate on this Bill. While the Minister is not present, I acknowledge the presence of her able deputy, the Minister of State, Deputy Ned O'Keeffe, a fellow Cork man.
The aviation industry is of worldwide importance and, especially in an island economy such as ours with its obvious problems of access, it is imperative that the aviation industry is as fit, lean and mean as is possible in taking on competition and providing an efficient and economic service to the public. In that sense, while I have some reservations about the Bill, I welcome the debate on the aviation industry in the context of the Bill.
Previous speakers referred to the explosion in passenger numbers. It is phenomenal and is placing an enormous strain on all our airports. We are looking at year on year increases in passenger numbers of approximately 12%. Last year, a phenomenal 16.5 million passengers used Irish airports. Obviously, that figure is comprised of tourists, business people and others. Nonetheless, it is an increase which is placing an extraordinary strain on resources.
It is clear that Aer Rianta has been caught off guard. Many of our airports are a disgrace and appear so to people visiting the country. Dublin Airport is a complete disaster zone. There are queues of people waiting for flights, passengers are falling over each other and the airport is poorly signposted. Aer Rianta has no excuse for that debacle. The finger can equally be pointed at most, if not all, other airports, particularly our international airports. The one possible exception is Shannon Airport in which, in the mid-1990s, a significant investment was made. However, that airport is probably significantly under achieving in terms of the number of passengers with which it deals. At other airports which are creaking at the seams – a development which was predicted long ago – Aer Rianta has been found to be lacking.
I do not claim to know the entire gamut of organisations involved in and regulations proper to the aviation industry. However, the primary purpose of the Bill is to provide for the establishment, on a statutory basis, of the commission for aviation regulation and the independent regulation of airport charges, including charges for terminal services provided by the Irish Aviation Authority. Therefore, it appears that, apart from the commission for aviation regulation which the Bill will establish, Aer Rianta and the Irish Aviation Authority will carry out certain functions in this area.
When there are additional duties to be undertaken, it appears to be a national malaise that rather than adding them to the duties of existing authorities – in this instance Aer Rianta or the Irish Aviation Authority – we queer the pitch further by establishing further commissions or semi-State bodies. While there is a possibility of a conflict of interest in terms of the shareholding and regulatory responsibilities, I am still not convinced that this commission is necessary given that the Irish Aviation Authority already has significant functions in the area in question. That is only one from any number of examples I could provide where this national malaise of establishing new independent bodies with new chief executives and new administrative costs, with relatively few functions to carry out, has gone too far.
In so far as there are duties to be carried out, the Bill seems to provide a framework to execute them and I do not propose to dwell on that matter. However, I will state that, for want of a better description, we appear to be engaged in poor economics.
In terms of access to the country, as I understand it we have four international airports if one includes Knock. In addition there is a layer of regional airports and demands have been made for the provision of other regional airports. It is time to take stock and, notwithstanding the question of increasing passenger numbers, discover whether we are, by the promotion of additional or new regional airports, undermining the viability of existing international and regional airports.
For example, there has always been a tension between the Shannon lobby and the Dublin or east coast lobby. It is undoubtedly true that any developments that will take place to improve Knock Airport in the context of Shannon or – this is the most ridiculous demand I have heard articulated recently – the suggested provision of a new international airport in Galway will impact on the viability of other airports. We do not need a series of uneconomically viable regional and international airports which would drive up the costs incurred by everybody seeking access to the country.
To be more parochial and deal with the situation in Cork, I must state that a proper hierarchical approach to access to the Munster region is imperative in terms of aviation policy. It does not serve the area well to have regional airports seeking a status above that which they currently hold and thereby undermining the position of Cork Airport. If there is a role model one could use in this regard it would be to consider the regional airport in Waterford and Cork International Airport. There does not appear to be any tension or undue or unhealthy competition between the two. Any upgrading of Kerry Airport will have an impact on the capacity of Cork to act as a hub airport serving the region generally. We must be careful with regard to how we proceed in that regard.
I wish to deal specifically with issues affecting Cork Airport. Aer Rianta is a disgrace in terms of how it operates Cork Airport. Politicians who represent Cork – a number of us are in the House – would acknowledge that fact while admitting that there has been an effective campaign mounted at Cork Airport in terms of getting us on-side with regard to the continued involvement of Aer Rianta at the airport. Once its shortcomings came to light, Aer Rianta's heavy hitters arrived at Jury's hotel in Cork, they summoned all local public representatives and impressed us with what they would do given that the airport's shortcomings had been uncovered.
Cork Airport should occupy a position far in advance of that which it occupies at present. At one stage there were a number of parties interested in taking over from Aer Rianta and I do not doubt that they would have done a better job than that done by Aer Rianta. There was a suggestion that private commercial interests and both local authorities, Cork County Council and Cork Corporation, would become involved in the airport. As a member of Cork County Council I can state that we were favourably disposed towards this suggestion, particularly in light of our previous track record with Cork-Swansea Ferries. In the latter instance, we acquitted ourselves with considerable distinction in re-establishing the Cork-Swansea ferry link. Nonetheless, it appears at this stage that the future of Cork Airport is in the hands of Aer Rianta.
Last week I received an update on Aer Rianta's proposals for Cork Airport from the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, which contained one interesting observation with regard to trans-Atlantic flights into Cork. It was stated that since that there was no demand for such flights there would be no need to provide for an extension of the runway. Surely that is the essential chicken and egg argument because if we are to fulfil the demand that exists for trans-Atlantic charter flights and regular flights from Cork to the United States, we must provide the necessary infrastructure while simultaneously marketing in respect of and pursuing that business.
The highest concentration of the pharmaceutical industry in Europe is located in the Cork area. More than 500,000 people live within one hour's drive of Cork Airport and there is great potential in terms of passenger and cargo traffic, an extremely lucrative area. To say that there is no demand and, consequently, no need to extend the runway is an extremely negative approach. Rather than acknowledging that more business could be done at Cork Airport, the Minister is saying she does not, of necessity, intend to invest there. She is kow-towing to the Shannon Airport lobby which should get up off its backside and try to attract business, of which there is a sufficient supply, in its own area.
Cork Airport has been poorly served. The terminal building in the airport is regularly overcrowded to uncomfortable levels. The cost of flights from Cork to London, a busy route, is extraordinarily high and regularly twice or three times the cost of flights from Dublin to London. The Minister should take that fact on board and immediately try to resolve this situation. There is a need for more airlines to operate on that route in order that we can drive the price down.
I state my support for the Bill, by and large. I particularly welcome the establish ment of an independent regulator to determine airport and aviation terminal charges and to be responsible for the allocation of slots under EU regulations.
I cannot support section 46, not because it would open up military aerodromes to civilian use which could be considered on a case by case basis, but because we are passing that decision out of this House to a body which will not be answerable to this House. I speak specifically about the possible future use of Baldonnel as a civil airport. It seems as though every Deputy would like an airport in his or her constituency but this is not the case in Dublin. I do not know if a civilian airport in Baldonnel would be desirable. I do not know enough about aviation to make that decision. However I am not willing to pass that decision to someone else or to vote away my power to affect that decision until the relevant information is available to me, my constituents and all the people who will be affected by it. Information regarding the necessity and desirability of opening Baldonnel as well as detailed information on the implications for the people who live in the vicinity and particularly in the flight path, the safety and environmental implications and the extent of the noise impact on the residents of the area must be made available.
This provision comes in a one sentence section under the heading, Miscellaneous Provisions. It would be easy to allow an apparently innocuous provision such as this to slip through. This is a major decision with far reaching implications for many people. The Minister would have no input into the future of the airport. Sometimes it suits Ministers to wash their hands of things and to place blame on an independent commission but we should think long and hard before we give away the power to make a major decision such as this.
I watched the Minister last week deny any intent to do things by stealth and, in her disingenuous fashion, declare the only reason for the provision was to allow for civil flying training in Gormanston. Even if this is the truth – and it may well be – and the future of Baldonnel never crossed the Minister's mind, if this legislation is passed unamended the decision on the future of Baldonnel will be out of our hands.
I do not mind admitting that I am not totally objective on this issue. The flight path for Baldonnel goes directly across the full stretch of my constituency and over my own home. Mine and the neighbouring constituency would feel the full impact. It is also possibly the most densely populated area of Dublin and we have reason to be concerned. Dublin Airport preceded the population settlement in the area and fairly rigorous sterilisation and maintenance of the sterilised cone areas has offered some protection there. To impose a civil aiport when people had bought their homes near what they assumed was a low usage airport and had settled in the area, some for generations, is a different proposition. I am not motivated by nimbyism. I have an open mind but I want to hear the arguments and the facts before I vote away our power.
I have heard other Deputies speak forecefully in favour of a second airport for Dublin and I can empathise with that view. Easier access to an airport from the south and west of the city and from the south and west of the country would be very attractive. Anecdotal evidence suggests that Dublin Airport is overstretched, overcrowded and perhaps not performing to acceptable international standards. That has caused people to jump to the conclusion that a second airport is needed in Dublin. However that leap of judgment is not yet justified. The case has not been made. We do not have objective evidence of the need for a second airport. The problems of Dublin Airport may be due to poor planning, bad management or under-investment. It may be that solutions can be found within the airport to make it operationally more efficient. Until we have the analysis and the projections, the case made and the public debate held we cannot make a major strategic decision such as this.
If the case were made for a second airport the next logical step would be to do a study to establish the most suitable location by looking at a variety of sites. If Baldonnel were a greenfield site it would be subjected to the most rigorous environmental impact assessment, public information meetings, a major debate, a public sworn inquiry and expert evidence and everyone's concerns would be listened to and satisfied. We have had none of this. We should not deprive the public of that process and of the necessary information before signing the decision away to an independent commission. Even the smallest public project is subject, if not to a sworn public inquiry, at least to some sort of public consultation.
Other Deputies have referred to the inadequacy of the road network in the area. Roads can be improved but one cannot clear the entire population of south County Dublin to faciliate a flight path. If the building of the airport is to be considered it must be done openly and in the light of the full facts. We cannot allow it to happen by default rather than intent. We cannot pass that decision to others.
The Bill provides for the establishment on a statutory basis of a regulatory body to be known as the commission for aviation regulation. It will be responsible for the regulation of charges levied at Irish airports, charges levied by Aer Rianta and by the Irish Aviation Authority, all aspects of air traffic into and out of our airports and the services rendered to aircraft for take off and approach. The Minister has said the new commission will have responsibility for five policy areas – the approval of ground handling, the approval of service providers at airports, the granting of operating licences to air carriers, administration of the rules governing take off and landing slots at airports and the licensing and bonding of travel agents and tour operators. The commissioner will have regard both to primary and secondary legislation and to EU regulations which, more and more, influence this type of implementation.
I am glad to see the appointment of an independent regulator. However I am conscious that decisions will be taken out of our hands and I am concerned that our influence on regional policy and regional investment, about which I am very concerned, will not be retained in this House. An airport is essential to the future development of any region. This question must be addressed.
The appointment of an independent regulator is welcome. For too long we have heard of disputes among Aer Lingus, Aer Rianta, Ryanair and so on. We have seen large advertisements in national newspapers in which Ryanair criticised Dublin Airport and its lack of facilities and many of us have experienced that lack. An independent regulator will help that situation. Decisions have been made without transparency.
We hear about the issue of landing fees not being addressed in a fair and meaningful fashion. I hear constantly in my constituency in Cork that Shannon Airport's marketing budget is far greater than Cork Airport's. This means that immediately Cork Airport is at a loss. I would like to see a level playing pitch and the establishment of an authority whereby these issues can be resolved and the facts established.
Last year the reports produced by Aer Rianta and by Ryanair outlined the confusion regarding a number of different aspects of the aviation authority. The Minister, in particular, is the single shareholder in Aer Rianta, Aer Rianta currently has a monopoly and the Minister also acts as the regulator. That is not a very healthy situation and it is important that we have an independent regulator for the benefit of all, particularly for the benefit of the consumer, that is, the air traveller.
Generally the provisions of this Bill are in line with all the deregulation measures happening in other areas such as energy, transport, communications and even in broadcasting, which I have been following. It is happening across the board and must be faced and addressed in a meaningful way.
I note that when Deputy Yates spoke on this Bill before the summer he praised the regulator designate and was very impressed with his ability and approach and particularly his experience in anti-trust law. He believed him to be fair minded and very able to deal with any of the issues involved. I was pleased to hear him say that in this House.
I would like to speak on Cork Airport, a subject close to my heart. On every opportunity I have had in this House to speak on matters of aviation, I have addressed the situation in Cork Airport and I have raised it with the Minister on several occasions. There is a strong lobby in Cork, as Deputy Creed mentioned, regarding the future of Cork Airport. Initially the lobby was set up as Cork Airport Against Break-up, CAAB, when there was a threat, which has subsided now, that one or other of the secondary airports, Shannon or Cork, would be sold off as a separate entity. That was not well received in the Cork area. We believe that Cork Airport should remain under the umbrella of Aer Rianta. It has benefited from being in that position and Dublin Airport, as we saw from Aer Rianta's report last year, is one of the most successful airports in Europe. It made £48 million. Cork Airport is not that successful but it is very essential from a strategic point of view to the future development of the regions.
I would be opposed completely to any sell-off or part-privatisation of Aer Rianta because our airports are an essential part of our infrastructure, particularly as we are a small island nation on the edge of Europe and we do not have any land connection. Since we are the only nation that does not have a land connection to the continent of Europe our airports are essential. We cannot cut ourselves off and it is essential that we retain them in public ownership and that they are not sold off in any form. We have heard a great deal of comment on this – there is still comment being made – but I hope it has receded somewhat.
Last September 12 months, that is, 13 or 14 months ago, the chiefs of Aer Rianta came to Cork and outlined to the public representatives and the chamber of commerce and all interested bodies in the area their future plans for Cork Airport. There was some suspicion at the time that this was an effort to diffuse a situation regarding a proposed bid for the purchase of the airport. At that time, we were given Aer Rianta's plans for Cork Airport, which were very acceptable. Anybody who has travelled through the airport will realise it is bursting at the seams. Its passenger numbers have increased substantially. It cannot cope with or cater for the passenger traffic. There are similar problems at Dublin Airport.
Aer Rianta has its plan for the development of Cork Airport but we have seen little or none of that investment, particularly in terms of the passenger terminal, multi-storey car park or infrastructural developments which are essential to the future of the airport. Recently I and all the Deputies in the area received a communication from the Minister which I was very pleased to read. It stated that Aer Rianta plans to improve the infrastructural developments in Cork Airport which will cost more than £60 million over the next five years. However, we are disappointed with the timescale. I and my colleagues will be closely watching all developments in this area.
The communication states that the investment plans will comprise four elements – airfield, passenger terminal, cargo facilities, which are also a very important part of Cork Airport's usage and traffic through the airport, and access to the current status relating to each of these elements. The airfield runway has already been overlaid and widened. However, we would like to see the extension of the runway being addressed. Recently I heard a story about an airbus, fully laden, which overshot the runway. With all the debris churned up, the airport had to be closed down for a number of hours until everything settled. We have the agents and the service seeking to come into Cork Airport but the runway is not long enough to take a fully laden airbus. I would like to see more emphasis on the extension of the runway because it will also open up the possibility and the provision of transatlantic routes.
The Minister stated in her reply regarding transatlantic routes, that discussions have been ongoing since 1996 with regard to European US aviation relations on the issue of a common aviation area. Ireland will continue to be opposed to the idea of a transatlantic aviation area because particular measures have been in place under Ireland's bilateral air service agreement. Currently the Minister states that airlines can operate charter flights from the US direct to Cork without the requirement of a stop at Shannon but there is no indication from any airlines serving Cork Airport of a demand for the provision of a runway extension. As Deputy Creed outlined, that is a ridiculous situation. If we have the runway and the facilities, then we can market the service and attract transatlantic routes into Cork. Currently one cannot fly on a transatlantic flight from Cork – one has to drive to Shannon or Dublin. Anybody who travels the road to Dublin Airport knows that it takes at least five hours to travel by road from Cork on a good day. There would be a strong demand for transatlantic flights from Cork Airport but tied up with that is the matter of the extension of the runway. We should not wait until we have the demand. W should act now and provide the services and we will attract the facility.
Regarding the passenger terminal, the plan is to have the capacity to handle 2.5 million passengers by the year 2003 and to facilitate further expansion for growth in numbers of up to 5 million. That is very welcome news. The Minister tells me a dedicated design team is working on the specification for the new facility. However, we were shown plans last year for a whole new facility. I am at a loss to see why it is still at a design stage when we saw the scheme last year. I understood at that time that the initial scope of the design was finished and that it was a matter of detailed design and putting the plan in place.
The development of a multi-storey car park facility is essential. Currently there is only a surface car park in Cork Airport and the Minister refers to the fact that additional car parking spaces have been provided. If she is referring to the car parking with which I am familiar, she should be aware that at some points one can be half a mile from the terminal and the surface is shingle on mud which turns to muck if there is rain. It is not an adequate car parking facility for passengers using the airport. Cork Airport is on a hill and is quite windswept. As there is not a bus serving the terminal, people must walk and on rainy days they get drenched walking to the far end of the airport to and from the terminal. We need a multi-storey car park with covered access to the passenger terminal.
Cork Airport is badly in need of upgrading. It is being neglected by Aer Rianta. We have heard much criticism of Dublin Airport which is still creaking at the seams although it has been extended. Shannon Airport is in a better position, but Cork Airport has certainly been neglected and is in need of immediate investment. There is a strong lobby among the workers and people in Cork who are concerned about the airport. I regularly receive telephone calls, particularly after weekends, about the flights and congestion at the airport, the difficulty in parking cars and people having to queue outside the terminal building across the car park for check-in. It is not satisfactory and if we are to move forward and attract new services into the airport we need some sign that the Government is serious about its commitment to Cork Airport.
I would like the Minister to include examining the cost of air fares within the remit of the commission. It is expensive to fly from Cork to London, with fares up to £200 depending on the flight. I do not know how the airlines decide the different standards. It is far more expensive than it is to fly Dublin-London and it does not make sense to me. The Dublin-Cork return flights are excessively expensive, ranging from £92 if one books early, to £120. We need to encourage more people to travel and use intercity links and we must address the cost of flights as people will not be attracted with current fares. We are a small nation, our roads are congested and it would be beneficial if we had links between our airports. However, those that exist are excessively expensive and the Minister should address this.
I welcome the main thrust of the Bill, but would like to use the opportunity to address the issues concerning our regional airports, particularly Cork Airport. It is an essential part of our infrastructure and is essential to the development of the region in terms of overseas investment, tourism and for the benefit of the consumers and travellers living in the area. Investment is necessary, as people are losing faith in the commitment of Aer Rianta and the Minister to the future of the airport.
I welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate. I pay tribute to and congratulate those involved in the development of our airport structure which I and others have inherited. I welcome the views expressed by Members about the importance of air transport, given that we are an island nation on the periphery of Europe, are members of the EU and given the role we play in the international market.
A number of years ago my father recalled that when Dublin Airport was being established, the Taoiseach of the day, Mr. de Valera, and the Minister, Mr. Lemass, were told they were cracking mad to consider Cloghran outside Dublin as a location. Not so long ago I recall the great debate about Knock Airport and I have great admiration for Monsignor Horan who, in his own words, went on a wing and a prayer to develop the airport. Listening to Members I am somewhat amused at the manner in which we refer to our airports and how they are tucked under the belt. I pay tribute to those who had the dedication, commitment and vision necessary to put airports in place at a time when people did not fully understand the importance of having such important infrastructure as part of the transport network.
The Bill enables the establishment of a new regulatory body to be known as the commission for aviation regulation. It will have responsibility for five main policy areas, all of which have already been covered, namely, the approval of airport and air traffic control charges, the approval of ground handling service providers at airports, the granting of operation licences to air carriers established in Ireland, the administration of the rules governing the allocation of take-off and landing slots at airports and the licensing and bonding of travel agents and tour operators. All these areas, and the associated issues, are extremely important and, therefore, this is a very important Bill, especially given that we as an island nation require the best integrated transport network, including an air transport network as a key component of that infrastructure.
I am pleased to note the Minister acknowledged that we are critically dependent on efficient, reliable and cost effective airports which can meet the needs and demands of our rapidly expanding economy. I congratulate the Minister on inviting wide-ranging discussion on how best to address the regulatory process, particularly in light of the liberalisation of air services in recent years, the likely further developments and what is clearly recognised as rapidly growing passenger numbers.
I welcome the Minister's comment that the policy proposals in the legislation will be the cornerstone in ensuring public confidence in the independence and fairness of the commission's operations, which is very important. One of biggest single issues in terms of the Bill must be meeting statutory and professional standards. It is also important that we acknowledge the role of the Irish Aviation Authority and the fact that we have enjoyed a very good reputation as a provider of quality, safe and efficient air traffic services. We should acknowledge and pay tribute to those who have been involved in the development of the statutory and professional standards which have led to our excellent reputation as airline operators and carriers.
On airport and air traffic control charges, the Minister has stated that the regulation of charges will be carried out in a manner which will facilitate the development of cost effective and efficient services to cater for the reasonable interests and needs of airport users and that the commission is obliged to engage in a consultation process with all interested parties prior to deciding on charges.
I have a particular interest in the Dublin region and am grateful to be in a position to enjoy the benefits which accrue from the tremendous facility of Dublin Airport. I hold a different view to that articulated by some of my colleagues in that I believe that the operators and the management teams in both Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta have done a tremendous job in regard to the provision and delivery of airport services.
No thanks to Fianna Fáil.
I will not respond to Deputy Broughan's intervention.
It is the truth.
We do not make false promises in hangars on the eve of an election; our record speaks for itself.
I welcome the committed investment of £350 million for development in Dublin Airport. Some issues remain to be addressed in regard to the airport and I have pursued these over a number of years. I regret that we have not been more proactive, particularly in regard to the number of employees and passengers who travel to and from the airport. It is vital that Dublin Airport, like the airports in most other European cities, would have a direct rail link from the terminal building to the city centre. Many of my colleagues in the Dublin region want to see that development. We are all au fait with the Dublin Transportation Office's proposals in regard to the overall transport network for the city but I believe that a direct rail link from the airport should be given priority as it would alleviate a great deal of traffic pressure on the north side of the city. Such a link should be interconnected with other transport service providers to ensure that those travelling to and from the airport could avail of their required mode of transport without difficulty.
Neither the Minister nor the departmental officials will be surprised if I take this opportunity to refer to a proposal which now rests firmly with the Department of Public Enterprise. Free travel for the elderly was a superb idea when it was first introduced but air travel has become a vital component of transport services in the 21st century. I stated that publicly last year, having carried out a great deal of consultation and research on the matter and my views have been endorsed here today.
I worked closely with Aer Lingus and Michael O'Leary of Ryanair on this issue in an attempt to identify how best we could provide free air transport—
There is little hope of that with Ryanair.
I welcome the fact that the Deputy has put that comment on the record and I am sure Mr. O'Leary will respond to it.
It would be quite feasible to allocate a percent age of spare capacity on airlines to elderly people wishing to travel abroad to visit friends and relatives or merely to go on holiday. Such people should be invited and encouraged to use this spare capacity at a very nominal rate.
When I began to research this matter, there were two issues outside the operators' control, namely, the £5 Revenue charge and the airport handling charge. Having met a number of people in the industry, I met with the Ministers for Finance and Public Enterprise, both of whom have been very positive in their response to my desire to extend the free travel scheme. I also discussed the matter with the Taoiseach and the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs. I am delighted that the £5 Revenue charge was abolished for all airline users in the budget.
In regard to air traffic control and airport charges, I urge the commission to provide for sufficient flexibility to ensure that should the Minister of the day wish to extend the free travel scheme to air travel, it would be possible to do so. I have made a submission to the Minister for Public Enterprise outlining the numbers of people who could avail of this scheme and the costs which would be involved. It is possible to meet my proposals in regard to the extension of the free travel scheme for people who hold a free travel pass. If operators are prepared to participate in the scheme along the lines I have outlined, this House and the commission should facilitate that. I look forward to developments in this regard.
On the licensing and bonding of travel agents and tour operators, will the Minister outline what will be the commission's role in this area? Will it relate only to those involved in air transport? We have a number of tour bus operators and tour companies and it is important that such service providers are staffed by adequately educated individuals. People may not know the local history, culture or places of beauty and so would not be able to point them out to visitors. Perhaps the Minister will consider how to ensure travel agents, tour operators and guides are adequately qualified. I look forward to her replying to me in detail, in writing, regarding this issue and that of licensing and bonding. The new commission will approve ground handling and service providers at airports. I draw attention to the concerns expressed by ground handling operators and their unions regarding existing requirements, likely future developments and health and safety issues.
The Bill has been comprehensively debated. I welcome the Minister taking into consideration the various competing demands and interests when considering the Bill. I am pleased to note she sought to strike the middle ground and provide a sound economic and regulatory framework within which the new commission will work. The balance will be seen as a core concept in her approach to the legislation that will be brought forward. I congratulate the Minister and wish the Bill well.
I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Bill. It spans a key area of the economy and, in the north-Dublin region, the key centre of economic life. For that reason it is a Bill to which we must give the closest scrutiny and about which the Labour Party has grave reservations.
Dublin Airport has become, to some extent, the symbol of Fingal county. The new county development board is using the flying raven, the symbol of Fingal, in a motif that expresses the way in which the airport represents the heartland of the development. The airport processes in the region of 14 million passengers each year, more than one million a month. It is just behind Manchester Airport which processes approximately 19 million passengers. The main hub in Britain, Heathrow, processes some 44 or 45 million passengers.
In the hinterland around the airport, in estates such as Airways and Clonshaugh Industrial Estate – I live close by – there are 15,000 jobs directly related to aviation. Recently planning permission was processed for the new M50 digital park which will rival Citywest and Parkwest on the south and west sides of the city respectively. We will have a hi-tech, highly designed digital software employing industry in that location. Side by side with that is the planning of Fingal manufacturing park.
One of the key problems in the north Dublin region – the Nordubco group of partnerships across the north county would put it clearly as would the city of Dublin development board and Fingal development board – is that neither the Minister nor the Minister of State has come forward with the requisite level of future planning or resources for the airport or its hinterland. In planning terms it has been a disaster and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is primarily responsible. I am not aware of any plan for the development of the airport zone. Environmental issues in the area around the airport have not been looked at. I note the comments made by the Aer Lingus directors in their 1999 report and their concern for the environment. These issues must be addressed.
Ten years ago many Dublin representatives were briefed at Dublin Airport by the then Aer Rianta management team and asked to provide the basic resources for a second terminal. Four or five years ago those of us in the greater Dublin, Meath, Louth, Kildare and Wicklow areas had another briefing on an extended terminal with provision for a second terminal. During the past three-and-a-half years, the Government has dragged its feet on these developments with the result that the plans rightly signalled a decade ago by Aer Rianta management have been held up. This summer we saw the utter chaos that faced visitors and those returning from abroad. I had such an experience when I returned from holiday. Aer Rianta staff displayed tremendous professionalism and did their damndest to try to keep traffic moving as flights arrived every few minutes. They worked hard and operated under intolerable conditions to keep people moving and get out baggage.
The Minister's mal-administration is responsible for that. It is due to her lack of competence that we have ended up in such a position. The staff have rightly, as did my colleague Deputy Stagg, connected safety issues on the ground with safety issues in the air. If they are operating in hopelessly over-crowded, chaotic buildings it will be easy to make significant mistakes which could have catastrophic consequences.
While this was going on for the past decade we had the machinations of people such as the McEvaddy brothers and various politicians with significant roles in this Government who partook of their hospitality in their villa in France, people with ideas for second and third terminals and a grotesque attempt to influence Government at the highest levels to curtail and disrupt the performance of Aer Rianta, one of our best semi-State bodies. We have had an astonishing spate of rezoning which might still be the subject of investigation by the Flood Tribunal where people tried to lump in land that had no connection with the airport to industrial and commercial development so that private operators and speculators could set up their own car parks and terminals. The Minister presides over a chaotic mess which is an example of her failure.
The background to this Bill is the determination of Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats to privatise Aer Rianta and Aer Lingus. I was delighted to hear that my Fine Gael colleague is completely opposed to the privatisation of Aer Rianta. There is a determined effort to sell off all our national assets – priceless national infrastructure which is to be sold off for a song. The two major Irish air transport companies, Aer Lingus and Ryanair, are competing well against each other. As in the area of telecommunications where British Telecom and Vodafone will shortly subsume Esat Digifone and a large chunk of Eircom respectively, within a few years we may end up with two foreign owned ‘duopolies'. My party is, therefore, correct to criticise the Bill and be wary of its key elements. The lifeline – the word used by many Deputies – of this 80 billion euro economy is air transport, both cargo and passengers. Clearly, this key strategic asset must be maintained in public ownership.
Determined efforts have been made to privatise the Great Southern Hotels Group. The Great Southern Hotel in the Dublin Airport complex, one of the most distinguished buildings in the area, is both beautiful and well run. It is a fine hotel which provides an immense service in the general north Coolock-Clonshaugh area. Despite the fact that it is both successful and profitable, there are people at the Cabinet table itching to get rid of it. There is a mantra and determination to privatise, no matter what the cost. The Minister, for whom I have regard, may not be in control of her Department; I sometimes think that the person at the heart of this movement in the Government is not, as many commentators seem to think, the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, or the Tanaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, but the Taoiseach who is content to preside over the vandalising of the cupboard of national resources.
In spite of massive pressures, I congratulate Aer Rianta and its hard-pressed staff for running the airport as well as they have in recent months. Aeroplanes literally arrive every two minutes. While we appreciate economic development, due to Government incompetence workers are being placed under unnecessary stress.
I also warmly congratulate Aer Lingus. As can be seen from its report it had a very impressive year in 1999 which saw a significant increase of 7% in profits and 12% in overall turnover to more than 1 billion euro. With its six A330s it is now carrying almost 1 million passengers on the vital transatlantic route to the United States, one of our key markets. Many people fear that the central core in the rush to privatise it, is that somebody wants to cherry pick this traffic, not for the benefit of the nation, but for the benefit of private interests. I also welcome its great achievement of an increase of 18% in traffic on continental routes and 11% on the London route, the busiest in Europe and one of the busiest in the world. Aer Lingus has played a full role in this achievement. On 1 June it became part of the famous One World group linking it with distinguished airlines such as American Airlines, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, Finn Air and Qantas. The group carries 200 million passengers each year between 550 cities and 130 countries.
The recent performance of the Aer Lingus work force has been extraordinary. They have responded vigorously to the challenge presented by the growth of Ryanair and other private operators for which they deserve our commendation. Their demand for a greater portion of the revenues of Aer Lingus is in many respects justified. It is fair that cabin and other ancillary staff who have made the recent 1999 Aer Lingus report possible should receive a decent portion of the additional revenue generated and be rewarded for their great achievement. The fate of Aer Lingus in my region as well as in Cork, Shannon, Knock and other airports is closely linked with that of the nation. Its efforts to ensure higher quality and better standards in recent years have paid off, for which I congratulate the work force.
The appointment of a person to the position provided for in the Bill prior to its enactment is, as Deputy Stagg said, both extraordinary and outrageous. To what extent will the person concerned be accountable and independent? The previous speaker referred to tour operators, an area in which there is a need for much greater accountability and which should come within the remit of the Departments of Public Enterprise and Enterprise, Trade and Employment. While on holiday in Spain during the summer one of my constituents became very ill and had to be transported home by air ambulance. The family had to meet the cost involved, £10,000. Such an obvious risk should be covered by insurance.
I welcome section 11 which provides for the possibility of a three person commission. Clearly, the idea of a one person commission is ludicrous. By availing of the expertise and ideas of a number of individuals there might be some possibility of success. I have little confidence in the various decisions made by the Director of Telecommunications Regulation, Ms Etain Doyle. That is the reason I look on this Bill with a jaundiced eye. Everyone now regards the sale of the second mobile phone licence for £15 million as an outrageous travesty. Over the period in question at least this amount of damage has been done by Esat Digifone and now BT in tearing the edifice of Dublin and many other cities apart. A total of 56 telecommunications operators claim the right to dig up the streets of Dublin. There is one road in my old ward of Beaumont which has been dug up 58 to 60 times in the past year. This arises from the fact that key public infrastructure has not been paid for by these companies. The decision in question was made by Ms Doyle initially in the case of Esat Digifone. Is it any wonder that Mr. Esat O'Brien rambles off into the sunset with £280 million leaving us to face a gigantic British company which has obtained access to much of key infrastructure for a song and a pittance? It seems the new proposals on unravelling the loop are an attempt to totally crucify and hamstring Eircom.
Does the Deputy not want competition?
I do not want competition in key resources; I want a good public company to do the job.
Another decision that will come back to haunt the Government is the recent decision to have a beauty contest for the third generation mobile phone licence. Through a very impressive economic formula the British and Germans have raised many billions of pounds for their national exchequers. We have taken a different path on the basis that we want the companies concerned to have sufficient capital to enable them to offer low prices, but instead of low prices there is chaos in relation to capital. In other words, we are not getting the money. In return they have obtained access to our infrastructure for nothing and are offering us high prices, the highest mobile phone prices in western Europe. We have the worst of all possible worlds. During the summer, following discussions with some of my constituents, I referred the issue of the sale of the second mobile phone licence for £15 million to the Comptroller and Auditor General. I also asked him to look at the recent announcement of sale by way of beauty contest, of the third generation of mobile telephone licences. Deputy Durkan may be interested to know that he said he will not be able to look at it until after the Minister for Public Enterprise and the Minister for Finance have made a final decision.
The Minister for Finance is happy with the proposal.
The State is being ripped off by this process. In another eight or ten years we may have to say where we stood on this matter. The record of the telecommunications industry is not much of an advertisement for what is proposed here regarding the aviation industry. My party's spokesperson, Deputy Stagg, was right to express the gravest reservations about proposed developments in this area.
The proposals for CIE and public sector broadcasting also give rise to grave concerns among the public. It is important that we do not end up with a new private monopoly, or a private duopoly, which we will shortly have in telecommunications. It will threaten developments in that industry.
I welcome sections 26, 27 and 32, which deal with the attempt to give the new proposed office some authority when dealing with the overall level of charges. There has been some response from Aer Lingus to the concerns expressed by the AEWU and other trade unions on the issue of pensions in the semi-State sector. Three years ago the Minister promised to index link retired workers' incomes across the public sector, yet nothing has been done and the Taoiseach does not want to know. Any time I have raised the matter with him he has said the workers will get £100 per week. That is his response to the question of indexation. However, it is not indexation. I have huge files from constituents who are former Aer Lingus and other semi-State workers. The response of Aer Lingus to this matter, dictated by the Government in preparation for privatisation, is not good enough. The Minister should return to this issue.
Like the Tanaiste and Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy Harney I grew up very close to Baldonnel Airport. All my life I have lived close to an airport. The general feeling among the public in north Clondalkin – Deputy Rabbitte and others can speak for them – and north Kildare is that major infrastructural developments in the Dublin area should be concentrated at Collinstown and Dublin Airport.
Like previous speakers I take a special interest in Dublin Airport because many of my constituents work there, or if they do not they work in industries related to the airport. I am, therefore, very interested in its well being and future development. I hope the Bill will assist in addressing the massive mis-management of the aviation services over which the Minister and the Government have presided.
The level of congestion at Dublin Airport is unreal. The Bill gives to the Commission for Aviation Regulation, the power to regulate airport charges and aviation terminal service charges. It might also address the regulation of the provision of services while managing the long-term development of the airport's regulated services.
The chaos which the commuting public currently experiences at the airport is dreadful. The inadequate transportation modes, with no rail link of any kind, are disgraceful. The deficit forces passengers to be dependent on bus or car transport, with the majority opting for car transport. This is placing an unnecessary strain on the road network servicing the airport. It also strains an already overburdened Belfast corridor.
When passengers eventually arrive at the airport, often having experienced gridlock on the M1, they are diverted to car parks which are a considerable distance from the terminal building. While a bus pick-up system operates, most passengers find it unsatisfactory. They are also of the view that they are overcharged for the facility. The problem is compounded when passengers have a friend or family member drop them at the start of their journey with a view to collecting them at the arrivals terminal on their return. However, because cars are not allowed access to the arrivals area, the driver collecting the passenger must park the car in the short-term car park occupying a space unnecessarily while the passenger is collected.
The terminal buildings are now so strained that on occasions during the past summer it has been reported that tour operators have been forced to check in their passengers from the car park because it was unsafe to allow any more people in the terminal building. Fears have been expressed regarding the personal safety of passengers within the terminal building. It is often the topic of conversation at the airport. The airport management company must ensure that the services they provide are adequate to meet the demands of passengers and related persons.
The airport is a very important factor in the economic life, not only of the country, but especially of the north County Dublin area. Some 12,000 jobs are provided within the airport confines with some 35,000 jobs reliant on the economic activity directly generated.
There is a need to ensure that the levels of service and comfort cannot be faulted. First impressions to foreign travellers are always very important, but, unfortunately, the current impression is not a good one. The commission must set charges which realistically allow for the expansion of facilities at the airport, ensuring viability and sustainability. Airport landing charges must be set at a reasonable economic level, which allows the market to be competitive while not subsidising any other sector or carriers. Each must be empowered to reach maximum passenger figures while fairly contributing to the long-term well being of the communal asset.
The commission should be allowed to set and regulate charges at commercial airports which have through passenger numbers of less than one million, as proposed. It is the hope that the transfer of control of travel agents and tour operators to the commission will result in the development of a team of staff who understand and appreciate the various aspects of this business, and that its expertise will be such as to allow for better and enhanced interaction with the service providers to assist the travelling public get the most from these bodies while allowing the travel agents and tour operators the capacity to prosper and enhance their commitment to the industry.
The operators of the airport must live in harmony with their neighbours. The noise factor at Dublin Airport is becoming a major issue for the residents in the north-east area of Dublin. Estates such as Sutton Park, Bayside and the whole of the Sutton and Baldoyle areas complain of serious jet engine noise invading their areas. It is pollution on a serious scale which must be addressed.
Proposals are before Fingal County Council to provide some 2,600 houses on the old race course in Baldoyle. Dublin Corporation has before it at planning stage, proposals for 2,000 housing units on lands adjacent to the Baldoyle racecourse. Directly overhead are the airport's air corridors or flight paths. A serious noise factor awaits the new people coming into the area.
I do not wish to welcome new constituents if they have to face a serious noise pollution problem. I read some time ago that grants were made available to residents within the vicinity of one of the London airports to insulate their homes against this type of pollution. Perhaps the Minister might consider doing something like that so people's houses will be properly insulated. The noise pollution from jet aircraft is unreasonable and people should not have to live in such an environment. The Minister could also take the matter up with the local authorities, particularly when new houses are being planned so that proper insulation against noise pollution will be provided.
Is the Deputy a member of a local authority?
I am. It would help if the Minister gave us a hand, particularly when many new residents are moving to the vicinity of the airport.
The Deputy would like an extra voice.
It would be most welcome if the Minister got in touch with the local authorities, such as Dublin Corporation and Fingal County Council.
I welcome this legislation which is timely, necessary and important. Dublin Airport caters for 14 million passengers. Over the past year we have seen numerous consultant reports on airport charges. Each person who sought such a report got the answer he or she wanted. If one side was arguing that airport charges were valid and the same or less than those in other airports, the consultants' report seemed to show that was the case. Ryanair published its report and it got the answer it wanted which showed that the charges at Dublin Airport and the other airports were over the odds.
Aer Rianta has pressed for the appointment of an aviation regulator. Deputy Yates, our former spokesman on public enterprise, welcomed the Bill when it was published in June. I also welcome the appointment of the regulator, Mr. Prasifka, who worked with the Competition Authority and who was one of a number of people who left it. Everyone seems to be abandoning the Competition Authority. I am glad he is bringing the expertise he brought to the Competition Authority to his job as the aviation regulator. The legislation provides for three commissioners. Is it the Minister's intention that other people will assist Mr. Prasifka or will he be a one man band?
What is the Minister's opinion of the other functions included in the Bill? The main function is outlined in section 7, namely, to regulate airport charges and aviation terminal services charges. I know the legislation allows for the expansion of those functions which are currently the responsibility of the Minister, such as approving arrangements for ground handling services, arranging for the allocation between airlines of landing and take off slots at airports, licensing Irish airlines under EU licensing regulations and administering the travel trade protection scheme through which travel agents and tour operators are licensed and bonded. How many functions will be handed over to the regulator? I would not like to see the Minister stripped of all her functions. I often wonder what will be left for the main Department to do if regulations are put in place and ombudsmen and regulators are appointed.
Perhaps the Minister could keep us informed about the threatened airline pilots strike and how the airports will function if that strike takes place. I know there will be a meeting tomorrow morning between management, SIPTU and Impact. It is important to keep the public fully informed of the progress of those discussions. There is a threat of a work stoppage on 17 October. People must know if that will happen well in advance of making their plans.
I also welcome the assurance I received from the Minister in a reply to a question I tabled at the start of this session that, contrary to some newspaper reports, fire safety arrangements at Dublin Airport are adequate and satisfactory. A recent newspaper article gave rise to a great deal of concern about safety arrangements at Dublin Airport and a public complaint was made about it. The Minister in her reply assured me that the arrangements fully comply with the national standards of the Department of the Environment and Local Government. It is important for the Minister to continue to give that assurance to the travelling public. I have also spoken to Aer Rianta about it and Aer Rianta has assured me that all fire safety arrangements at Dublin Airport are adequate.
As a representative for the area in which Dublin Airport is situated, I find it difficult to separate advertisements and fact. While it may be legitimate to criticise other airlines and airport management, I urge everyone using Dublin Airport and the other airports to steer away from incendiary language, such as that used by Mr. O'Leary of Ryanair. He said he would like to use Semtex at an Aer Rianta board meeting. That is not the type of language business people should use. It is legitimate to criticise if criticism is due and it is valid to rant and rave across a table or on the public airwaves. However, people should not diminish themselves by saying the only way to get rid of Aer Rianta management is to put Semtex under it.
Aer Rianta has been referred to as the jewel in the crown of the public service. For many years it was seen as a model of how public companies should be run. Its management sought new opportunities to improve the economic welfare of the company and it expanded into duty free shops and airport management all over the world. It assisted emerging states in eastern Europe to develop and manage their airports and to train their staff. It created what became known as an Aer Rianta person. It was like Aer Lingus. Just as we almost knew what airlines had used Aer Lingus to train their cabin staff, we knew an airport where Aer Rianta had been involved in training and providing services.
I am depressed at the atmosphere at Dublin Airport. There is at least one reason I am getting so many complaints. I would like the Minister to examine carefully the combined or separate roles of the chief executive and the chairman of the board of Aer Rianta. There are severe criticisms of the atmosphere at Dublin Airport and in Aer Rianta. Why have things changed there? Why are people unhappy? Why, over the past 12 months approximately, did 150 of the top and middle staff of Aer Rianta leave the company and go elsewhere? These people got very good training and often got access to third level education to get degrees and diplomas. They have left the service and we could not afford to lose them. I realise there is a great deal of movement of staff everywhere because there are opportunities in various new areas of industry and people who are trained are head-hunted, but there are other reasons. People are telling me they cannot stay in the company.
I attended a function the other evening for a senior manager of Aer Rianta and it was sad to hear him say publicly that he was not retiring, he was leaving. The Minister will know of whom I speak. This was somebody who, as general manager of the airport, did tremendous work. Along with the former chief executive, he introduced all the positive, consumer friendly measures in the airport – the Christmas decorations, the art festival, the availability of staff throughout the airport to assist passengers in every way, the availability of people who could clear the trolleys and provide the internal networking of transport, etc. All these innovations were brought in over the past ten years but unfortunately in the past two years there has been a change. It is palpable when one walks into Dublin Airport and I do not know the full extent of the reason for that other than people telling me there is too much involvement by the chairman of the board. I have to say that here, because if I do not say it here I will say it outside this House. There is a sense that the management of the airport is not being let get on with the job and that the chairman of the board will have to pull back and do what a chairman of a board should do – direct the policy at board level and let the management of the airport and the management of Aer Rianta in Dublin Airport be run by the managers.
I do not know what the Minister has to say about that. I know the chairman has had an extra five years added to his appointment.
No, he was re-appointed.
He was re-appointed. I have met him many times and I know he has the airport's best interest at heart but I ask the Minister in the strongest terms to examine what is going on in Dublin Airport and see whether a discussion can take place with the chairman of the board to allow the managers to manage the airport and for him to do his job as chairman of the board.
I hear what the Deputy is saying.
I would be dishonest if I did not let the Minister know the seriousness of the situation and how angry many of the staff are about the way the airport is being run. The complaint from people working in the airport is serious and if we do not do something about it quickly, not only will 150 people have left by the end of next year but 500 staff will leave to find other jobs. Some of the brightest and best people are leaving the Aer Rianta company and that is not what the Minister wants when she is preparing this company for change in the way it is run.
The summer months have been atrocious for people using Dublin Airport. I cannot put it any other way. The service, the overcrowding and the delays have been atrocious. I know the Minister has met the chief executive and the chairman of the board about this problem and in fairness, because traveller numbers have dropped somewhat, there is now a bit of a breathing space. I also know that negotiations have been completed with the airlines to move on to the new check-in desks and with Aer Lingus to take over the existing area. Ryanair has agreed – I will believe it when I see it – to move to the new desks but it wants to continue to do something in the old area. That is a matter for the management to sort out but that is the crucial point. It is for the manage ment to sort out this matter, preferably not on the public airwaves and in an incendiary way.
There is a lack of understanding that Aer Rianta as a company runs the airport but the services that are provided in the airport such as baggage handling and check-in facilities are managed either by an airline or a company like Servis Air. I have told the chief executive of Aer Rianta that he cannot get that message across. There is no point in crying to me or to anybody else. We are not in charge of whether there are hundreds of passengers crammed into the baggage hall. People see Aer Rianta as the managers of the airport and it is up to them to make sure that those who have responsibility for the baggage handling, whether it is Aer Lingus, Ryanair or Servis Air, run their business properly and make sure the area is safe for passengers. There is confusion about this and Aer Rianta, perhaps unfairly, gets all the blame because it is the overall company but other companies must take some of the criticism that has been levelled at Aer Rianta management in recent months.
It suits them to shunt it on.
Of course it does. Not long ago I spent four hours – from 8.30 p.m. to 12.30 a.m. – quietly and without any fanfare walking around the airport looking at all the facilities. Unfortunately, many of them were not in service. I am glad to say that since my visit many of them are now in service. One of the issues I highlighted in the airport was the bad signage and I understand that as a result of my recommendation, the airport has taken on a company to examine the signage. When people get to the airport they need to know immediately where to go.
Does the aviation regulator have any role in customer service? I know he will have a role in setting the charges for planes that are landing on the apron but I do not know, and I wonder if the Minister will tell us, whether he will have a role in doing a stock-take of the airport services for the people using it. What about services, for instance for the woman who is on her first trip, who has never been in an airport? We all tend to suspend a certain amount of our intelligence when we get into an area like an airport and we hope that somebody will tell us where to go. An airport can be quite intimidating and some people are already nervous because they have to travel. Even before all this work is finished, the airport must become more managed. An impression must be created for people coming into Dublin Airport that it is being managed but I am sorry to say that impression has not been created all summer. I hope that will change as a result of all the publicity this issue has received.
I will refer briefly to something Deputy Joe Cosgrave mentioned. During my visit to the airport I spent about three quarters of an hour in the tower with the air traffic controllers. It is a fascinating place. I do not know whether anybody else in the House has spent any time in it—
I have been there.
—but it was fascinating to watch them, as we have seen in movies, calling the planes and directing them in. I accept that the issue of slot scheduling is something Aer Rianta and companies have sought for some time but the Minister announced this as a kind of knee-jerk reaction to the criticisms of her and the airport. I have received complaints to the effect that travel companies have decided on their brochures for next year. The slot meeting is held in November every year and I know the Minister's intention is to have the new person in place before November so that he or she can attend the slots convention that is held annually, but travel companies are way ahead of that. They have already printed their brochures. They had to because they are selling their holidays. I ask the Minister not to do something which will not work just for the sake of appearing to do something. Every airport catering for more than ten million passengers probably needs to have slot scheduling.
For public safety.
There is no doubt in my mind about that, but the Minister should not just announce it and expect it to happen when it is too soon to do it for next year. She might have to wait until next year's slot scheduling convention to get it working properly.
One of the reasons I welcome it is because when I was in the tower with all these really skilled people talking to the pilots bringing in the planes, I asked why the people in Portmarnock were suffering so badly from excessive noise from aeroplanes given that the turning point for Dublin Airport is between Baldoyle and Portmarnock. If pilots flying into Dublin took that turning they would not fly over the houses in Portmarnock. I was told they fly over the houses there because they have visual landing in Dublin Airport. When the weather is good and they can see the flight path, they do not have to fly to the central line, to which planes are normally directed by air traffic controllers, to come in to land. If the weather is clear, they take a circular path to land at the airport. When a resident of Portmarnock telephones the airport to inquire why he or she was woken up by a plane flying overhead at 1 a.m., he or she cannot get a valid answer. I know the answer to that question. It is that the pilots of such planes land visually and are not obliged to follow the central path line which would take away most of the aviation noise from built up areas. If a regulation is not introduced to cover planes landing in Dublin Airport, I warn the Minister that proposals she might have for its expansion and the building of a second runway will be viciously opposed by the people of Portmarnock who could build up a strong campaign. Residents of Portmarnock cannot sit in their back gardens or sleep at night due to level of aviation noise. Parishioners at an evening Mass recently thought that the church roof would collapse on top of them because the plane flying overhead was so low they could practically see the threads on its wheels, which were down ready for landing. The Minister needs to examine the control of air traffic into Dublin Airport. Slot scheduling will help, as it will mean that all planes will have to come in the correct flight path directed by the air traffic controllers.
There is no appeal mechanism in the legislation. Section 38 allows for a judicial review. There is a case to be made for putting in place another appeal mechanism that could be availed of by people who may wish to appeal against a decision that may be made by the regulator.
We want a rail link built from Dublin Airport to the city as quickly as possible, not in the time frame of the long drawn out plan the Minister has announced many times. She needs to find a way to build such a rail link. It is a joy to travel to airports in many European cities, such as London or Amsterdam, and to commute by rail link from those airports to the centre of those cities. We should be able to provide such a rail link and perhaps Aer Rianta could investigate an innovative way of providing one. It is extraordinary that we have not been able to provide one up to now. We need a rail link to Dublin Airport to improve the access to that airport.
I welcome the thrust of the Bill, which is needed to address the difficulties and changes that arise in the aviation sector. Necessity is the mother of invention. As time passes, changes must be made to many sectors, air travel being one of them.
The Bill proposes the establishment of a Commission on Aviation Regulation. A late Member of this House used to refer to such a commission as a quango. I hope this new commission will not become a quango. I and other Members have queried whether regulatory bodies set up under previous legislation come under the control of the House. I note the Minister has powers over this authority, but will she answer questions in this House on the work of that commission in the future? Based on past experience of such matters, I speculate that she will not.
There is nothing to preclude a Minister from answering questions in the House on the work of such bodies, but the answer we usually get to such a question is that "The Minister has no responsibility to the House" on such a matter. That is a phrase with which the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will be familiar in his current and previous capacities. I am not criticising the holders of offices, but that is how the system works. We need to cotton on to the notion that the public find it difficult to understand why the Minister concerned has no responsibility to the House for such bodies. They also find it difficult to understand why an elected Member cannot ask a Mini- ster about a matter of this nature. The farther we go down the road of creating satellite institutions that are not accountable to the Minister and for which the Minister is not accountable to the House, the greater the problem will be for us. One could speak for longer than the 20 minutes allocated on this matter.
A number of speakers raised the question of the regulation of slot schedules at various airports. Some speakers also referred to the licensing of carriers, which is covered in the Bill. It is important to note that one of the serious and growing problems not only in our airports but in European airports is the ever increasing traffic at various airports. While that leads to serious congestion and discomfort for passengers, it also gives rise to possible safety problems. As more and more passengers use airlines, it follows that the slots involved will be more closely linked and there will be less space between take off and landing and on international routes. It is quite common to board a plane in Dublin Airport and to have to wait for an hour or longer on the tarmac, which causes passengers discomfort and those who cannot keep to their time schedules to be extremely annoyed. I accept addressing that problem is not in the hands of our authorities, but we must make it clear to others that we have to be able to live as well and that as an island nation we face difficulties other countries do not. We need to be able to get on and off this island reasonably efficiently and safely. There are only two ways we can do that, by sea or by air. It is commonly indicated that Dublin Airport has to await clearance for take off and landing slots from air traffic controllers in London, Brussels and elsewhere. That is fine provided we do not become victims in this area. I hope in the review that will take place under this legislation it will be possible to home in on that aspect of air traffic control and to address problems in that area.
I agree with those speakers who referred to Dublin Airport as being extremely congested. It was dangerously congested during the summer. If one arrived in the airport on a Sunday morning during the summer, one would see many students and tourists travelling to and fro and queues of people all over the arrivals area. I cannot understand how basic health and safety requirements can be complied with in those circumstances. If anything went wrong, such as a fire breaking out, one would not be able to achieve optimum safety standards. We need to examine that situation as it is developing.
I cannot understand why it is not possible to have a check-in area away from the airport. While that may require a special transport system, improvements have been made in the standard of coaches that service the airport. Other speakers mentioned the underground systems that serve other airports throughout the world. They provide efficient services and enable commuters to get to and from airports with a minimum of delay. Notwithstanding that, consideration should be given to providing an alternative check-in facility to ensure passengers are checked in in an expeditious, reasonable, efficient and safe manner. The degree of traffic and people congestion around the airport buildings is a problem that needs to be addressed.
The cost of air travel may be a moot point, but there has been considerable improvement in this area over the past ten to 15 years. Not so long ago it cost the best part of £200 to travel to London, but competition brought about a reduction in cost. However, it is odd that the advertisements for transatlantic routes show that it must be cheaper to fly over land than water, as one can travel to and from New York and Boston for a fraction of the cost of travelling to Europe, though I cannot understand why. Every time a plane leaves Dublin Airport for Brussels it is full and the same on the return journey, so it is not true to say that planes are flying to Europe half empty or at a loss; they were fully loaded on almost every flight I can remember over the years.
Half of the passengers are in Club Class.
Exactly. The curtain is moving further and further down the plane depending on the number of people prepared to pay more. Something needs to be done about this and I know a committee of the House is to look at the issue of air costs. If one compares the cost per air mile of the transatlantic routes with the European routes there is a huge difference and I am sure it has nothing to do with the usage of the European or London routes. This is an issue that bears examination as more and more businesses depend on air travel. An island nation like ours has only two options: by air or by sea. People in the UK can take the train to Europe, but our options are more limited. Despite the Celtic tiger we could find ourselves at a disadvantage if air transport to Ireland became more expensive. We must keep an eye on this and look at issues contributing to costs.
Airport charges are a contributing factor to costs. I know that to run an airport effectively and safely one must have charges, but those charges must be at least as competitive as charges in other countries with which we trade. In addition, it is high time, given the growth in the economy, that there is ready access to the capital cities in the euro zone and the EU in general. Business people complain they may have to make two stops in a journey; they may have to travel from Heathrow or another airport to reach their final destination. It is appreciably more beneficial to anyone travelling, but business people in particular, to get a direct flight. The various airlines and aviation authorities, including our own and the commission proposed by this Bill, should get together as soon as possible to figure that out. It would be hugely beneficial to our economy for both importers and exporters if we could smooth the path for those travelling regularly on business. It is common to see such people travel with their computers and they have genuine reason to move quickly, efficiently and in a cost-effective way.
I have already mentioned the issue of traffic around Dublin Airport. Although people may raise their eyebrows, the time may come for us to consider having another airport in the country. It is easy to shelve that and for people close to the chosen location to say "we do not want to hear about it" but there may come a time in the not too distant future when we have to deal with this problem. We are fast approaching the situation where Dublin Airport cannot deal safely with the volume of traffic coming through it: we are talking about 14 million passengers and rising. I do not see how we can keep our economy going, given the number of people employed here and who will be employed in the future as well as those who have businesses at various locations. We will have to examine the options that we can use to back up and enhance Dublin Airport.
By enhancement I do not mean people should decide to hive off the noisiest or most difficult aircraft to one area. That kind of cherry picking is not on, but we need to have regard for the ever-increasing numbers of people who require air transport, sometimes urgently, and who may have to defer travelling due to road traffic en route to the airport or air traffic congestion due to the lack of landing slots. We need to pay more attention to this area.
I hope the provisions of this Bill will be effective and enable people to see that the system works. It has become obvious to me – perhaps because I am getting older – that the public expect systems to work. They expect all the institutions we put in place to work efficiently and at every opportunity they come to us, their representatives, to complain about why the system does not work. That should not happen, but it is a fact of life. As a result of changes in legislation or, depending on one's view, an absence or abundance of legislation, people ask: "Will X happen? And if not, why not?" I hope this legislation will be of benefit to the consumer, the economy and the country in general. I also hope that the Bill's provisions work and will be seen to work.
I will make some points regarding this legislation, some minor and some more substantial. Section 10, with the merit of great directness, gives the Minister the power to give general policy directions to the commission. This is a good departure point because it appears consistent with the analysis of the role of the regulator provided by the former Attorney General, now Commissioner, David Byrne, in one of his seminal addresses to the law society of University College Dublin when he discussed the role of the regulator in Europe and the United States. I hope I give a fair summary of his paper on that occasion when I say that one of its fundamental points was that any Minister in a system such as ours or the British system must give the regulator a clear envelope of policy directions and that his or her role is within the limits of that set of policy points. That crucial point was made by Mr. Byrne when he addressed the society. I found it to be of immense benefit and my great disappointment is that we have not had an extended debate in either House of the Oireachtas on what is meant by the transfer of ministerial functions to the regulator, be it in telecommunications, transport or, in this case, aviation.
This is necessary. The context on which Mr. Byrne drew in making those points was that the elected representatives and, in turn, the Minister, who is chosen from among them, must always satisfy a balance between such policies which will serve the citizenry in general. For example, in the areas I mentioned, the right to communicate is a wider citizenship right than the right to sell commodified communication products. As regards transport, for example, the function of regulation would be wrongly and narrowly construed were it to be the construction of an artificial competition at the lucrative end of transport which ignored the citizens' right to access and travel.
The defining of the role of the regulator in the years following Maastricht has been very confusing. Some European Union countries have construed the role of the regulator as one which is consequent and subsequent to the clear announcement of policy priorities, including State provided services. What I would call the more rabid, neo-liberal, Thatcherite interpretations of the role of the regulator in some cases have suggested that one must almost ab initio remove the hand of the State and then proceed to construe a new space which will be dominated by the market. This has, probably most controversially, created a collision in political terms between member states. An example is broadcasting where it is a distorted, inaccurate and, I believe, illegal construction of broadcasting policy from the directives to suggest that there should not be assistance to the State broadcaster to enable it to fulfil the old Reithian remit of informing, educating and entertaining the mass of the population wider than those who are able to pay for subscribed services.
Therefore, it would be valuable if the power given to the Minister in section 10 to give general policy directions to the commission did not appear almost subsequent to such practices the commission might define for itself. This is serious. If, as it states in another section of the legislation, it is proposed to establish independence for the commission in an operational sense, that appears to assume that section 10 takes precedence and that the policy direction given to such regulatory authority by the Minister would be antecedent to its operation.
These are important points, not just in this legislation but also in terms of legislation governing the role of the regulator. It is consequential to its not being defined that confusion exists as to where accountability lies. For example, some will argue that the transfer of functions in the major way is akin to the Minister transferring accountability. I do not impute that to this Minister. I simply say that it is an issue which must be resolved.
It is also very important that we decide what the principles of policy might be. An aviation policy will have to include the policy envelope which might precede the transfer of functions to an independent authority. It must also discuss the manner in which the future of aviation policy is envisaged within a general transport policy which, in turn, takes account of such spatial proposals the Government proposes to make. This raises such questions as to whether one can extend from what one has at present, increasing urban "diseconomies", or whether one can reduce the urban "diseconomies" by establishing a regional spread of aviation services on the periphery of the major user which every speaker has suggested is congested at present and is used to a degree far beyond what was originally envisaged.
I appeal to the Minister to clarify another matter which is local. It is important that the Government announces its strategy regarding future choices and options for regional airports as soon as possible and before this legislation comes into effect. If the commission operates on market principles, some of the best uses of regional airports might never come to be. The Minister was quoted by an Opposition Member as saying that, as regards Galway Airport, for example, she is interested in hearing any plan being submitted and is interested in being supportive of it. However, those administering the airport have made an application for an increased marketing grant to build on what they have and they are left with a certain uncertainty as to whether, if it is proposed to move the airport to another location, the capital funding will be available to assist that. That is a political decision and one which precedes the authority. It is equally a political decision as to where aviation structures are to come into being or to be extended if they are to take account of existing passenger usage and of best ecological practice. They must take account of issues that are wider than the remit of the market.
It is dangerous to transfer any functions that have been defined in legislation to a commission without announcing the clear policy profile and without defining where the autonomy of the commission will arise. I must express the greatest concern that the functions transferred to the telecommunications regulator are being interpreted in a way that was not thoroughly discussed in the House. That issue arises in that area because of converging technologies and because the boundary of activity is very different now than was originally envisaged.
We must also bear in mind the timescale. Market decisions are of necessity governed by the maximum profit in the shortest amount of time with the greatest numbers using the particular service. Proper timescales for the transport policy and, within that, an aviation policy must take account of other things, for example, the future of the European Union which, especially after the accession of applicant countries, will involve much more inter-regional travel. Therefore, old assumptions, which appear a bit corny at this stage, that the majority of those travelling to another country want to visit the capital city first do not hold up.
Debate adjourned.