Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 28 Feb 2001

Vol. 531 No. 4

Adjournment Debate. - Mandatory Identity Card Scheme.

Mr. Coveney

I thank the Chair for allowing me to raise this matter and the Minister for coming into the House to respond. It is not the first time I have raised it with him. I raised the matter during the course of the debate on the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, 2000, and also at Question Time when dealing with the issue of street violence.

While the overall level of alcohol consumed presents a serious problem, the level of alcohol consumed by young people presents a particular problem. In its recent report the World Health Organisation found that Ireland's teenagers are top of the European league when it comes to under age drinking. They drink more, get drunk more often and regularly indulge in binge sessions. Over one half regularly engage in drinking sessions. Lest anybody is in any doubt, the problem is as serious, if not more so, for girls.

We, in Ireland, have a reputation for drinking. While some sometimes speak as if they are proud of this, recent media reports, both on television and in the newspapers, have shown the uglier side of drink, particularly what it can do to young people. I can confidently state that most young people are of the view that it is the norm to start drinking at the age of 15 or 16 years. Many are also of the view, unfortunately, that it is okay to experiment with so-called recreational drugs. Almost 35% of teenagers have experimented with cannabis and ecstasy.

Street violence has been a topic for discussion on numerous occasions in the past 12 months. In fairness to the Government, there has been a reasonably good response in making our streets safer through the introduction of Operation Oíche in Dublin and Cork and, although delayed, CCTV cameras. Those who must deal regularly with street disturbances and their consequences will tell us categorically that the single biggest cause is alcohol abuse. Doctors in accident and emergency departments, gardaí and night club owners will all give the same answer.

The Government's response to under age drinking in the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, 2000, was only half-baked. While the Minister rightly introduced more severe penalties for publicans and the owners of off-licences who serve alcohol to under age persons, he did not provide for any means by which they can assess accurately a person's age. It is impossible to tell the difference between a girl aged 16 years and a girl aged 19 years when dressed to go out for a night. My brother who is 16 years of age, as tall as I am and regularly borrows my razor looks more like a 20 year old. It is impossible for a publican, the owner of an off-licence or a garda to assess accurately a person's age.

Following the enactment of the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, 2000, the Minister introduced a voluntary age card scheme. While I am open to correction, I understand that to date the scheme has been taken up by approximately 20,000 young people, which is lower than the number attending UCD. The scheme has not affected in the slightest the ability of young people between the ages of 14 and 17 years to obtain alcohol in public houses or off-licences as there is no obligation on publicans or the owners of off-licences to demand identification. They have, therefore, nothing to fear.

The introduction of a mandatory ID card scheme is the only way to ensure young people will be required to show identification, which cannot be forged, before being served alcohol in a public house. State ID systems are operated successfully in other countries. Canada and the United States are prime examples. Why is the Minister reluctant to consider this option? What are the negative aspects holding him back?

The Minister for Health and Children recently launched an awareness campaign on the abuse of alcohol, aimed particularly at young people. He is sending the right message. He is also doing a good job when it comes to smoking. When asked in Sweden ten days ago he said that he would consider speaking to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform about the introduction of a mandatory ID card scheme. Has he done so? Is the Minister now thinking seriously about the need to introduce such a scheme?

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. O'Donoghue)

The Intoxicating Liquor Act, 2000, which I initiated and which came into effect on 6 July last, provides for a considerable strengthening of the law on under age drinking. It takes into account many of the recommendations of the Oireachtas committee which reported on the area, including those recommendations which related to under age drinking. I also took into account the many submissions received from groups and members of the public following a consultation process.

With a view to strengthening existing provisions regarding the supply or sale of intoxicating liquor to under age persons, I abolished the defence of reasonable belief in proceedings against a licensee, increased the fines for breaches of the law on under age drinking and provided for a new penalty – a temporary closure order – for conviction of the sale of alcohol to under age persons. The removal of the reasonable grounds defence is complementary to the voluntary age card scheme in that it makes reliance on it by licensees more important – no defence is permitted where a person wilfully supplies liquor to an under age person. These provisions are tough, and I make no apology for them. They must be tough if they are to contribute in an effective way to our efforts to stamp out under age drinking.

Deputy Coveney, to whom I am grateful for raising this matter, alluded to the fact that there is no obligation on a licensee to look for the identity card. That is not correct. If the licensee has a doubt, he can request the identity card because, if he does not do so and the young person is found on the premises, there is no defence. If in doubt, one should request the card because the offence is now one of strict liability.

I have been assured by the Commissioner that the Garda Síochána is resolutely enforcing the licensing laws on under-age drinking. There has been misleading comment to the effect that there has been only one conviction under the 2000 Act since it came into operation last July. This is not the case. Since July six licensed premises have had temporary closure orders made against them as a result of convictions under the Act and the Garda is pursuing cases in respect of another 80 premises nationwide. Three premises have been closed for seven days, two for five and one for three.

While it takes time for any piece of criminal law to begin to take effect, it is clear from the figures to date that the law is working and is beginning to have the desired effect. The Garda Síochána acknowledges that, as far as a legislative measure can contribute to a solution to the problem of under-age drinking, the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 2000, provides the Garda with the necessary powers. These additional provisions, in conjunction with the national age card scheme which I introduced in April 1999, will further strengthen the hand of all agencies in the fight against under-age drinking,

The age card scheme allows any person who has attained 18 years of age to apply for an age card at his or her local Garda station to confirm that they have attained the legal age for the purchase of intoxicating liquor. The Garda community relations section in Harcourt Square, Dublin 2, has overall responsibility for the issuing of the cards. The cards have security features which include a hologram incorporated into their design. Approximately 23,300 age cards have been issued to date.

With a view to promoting the scheme, I launched the age card scheme awareness campaign in Dublin Castle on 6 September 2000 in conjunction with the Garda authorities who have taken the following steps to promote the use of the age card. All Garda stations have been notified of the age card scheme and issued with application forms and posters. Non-Garda outlets have also been issued with application forms and posters. A poster campaign has been initiated to target all pubs, stand-alone off-licences and grocery based off-licences, night clubs, dance halls and so on. Youth information centres and youth groups nationwide have been issued with information, posters and contact numbers for further support. Garda juvenile liaison officers and community gardaí are visiting post-primary schools, youth clubs, special projects and so on to highlight the age card scheme. There is ongoing liaison between the drinks industry and the Garda Síochána and new avenues of ensuring young people get the age card message are being explored.

The question of a mandatory age card scheme was discussed in debates on the Bill that led to the Act of 2000. However, there were doubts about the feasibility of such a scheme. It would be necessary to issue cards to all young people within a certain age range, including those who had no wish or intention to purchase intoxicating liquor. This gives rise to a number of questions. Not least of these is why a 19 or 20 year old who has no desire to drink alcohol should be forced to have an identity card just because some of his friends drink. The question also arises as to the age at which a mandatory card would no longer be required. Would a 65 year old be obliged to have a card and, if so, why? These were questions to which, in the context of the framing of the legislation, there were no easy answers.

The existing voluntary scheme provides a practical method for consumers and those who sell alcoholic liquor to establish proof of age where a doubt exists. It must be remembered that these are people legally entitled to consume alcohol in a licensed premises. A young person under 18 would have no use for such a card because he or she is not supposed to be drinking on a licensed premises. The card would only be of benefit to a person about whose age there was a doubt and who was over 18.

The process of reforming our intoxicating liquor laws has not ended and the House will be aware that on 1 November last I established a commission on liquor licensing under the chairmanship of Mr. Gordon Holmes. The membership of the commission represents a wide range of interests and the terms of reference include all aspects of the operation of the licensing laws, including an examination of the problems associated with under-age drinking. I will consider any recommendations the commission makes in relation to under-age drinking and age cards, mandatory or otherwise. The commission will produce a final report on all other matters within two years, but it is open to it to report earlier on any aspects.

While legislative measures, together with initiatives such as an age card scheme, can help to curtail the problem of under-age drinking, they cannot be viewed as the only solution. Dealing with the demand side of the under-age drinking problem should not be seen as the province of the State agencies alone. The drinks industry, the creative media, politicians, teachers and parents especially must play their part in helping to address that side of the problem.

The real challenge is changing attitudes to drink. We know this is extremely difficult to accomplish, but not impossible. It is important that the message goes out to all adults that they also have an obligation to assist the Garda and I urge adults to report incidents of under-age drinking, whether in licensed premises or not. Parents must also exercise responsibility. Although it is not always easy to keep an eye on what our children do, as any parent knows, nevertheless it is the case that the primary onus for knowing where our children are, whom they are with and what they are doing falls on us all as parents.

If it should transpire in the course of the commission's deliberations that a mandatory card scheme would assist – and I have my reservations in that respect for the reasons I outlined – it will be studied as will Deputy Coveney's statement.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 1 March 2001.