Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 15 Nov 2001

Vol. 544 No. 2

Afghanistan Crisis: Statements.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Cowen)

At the request of the House, I would like to make a statement on Afghanistan. We meet today as events in Afghanistan are unfolding by the hour. The international community is presented with an enormous challenge. With military success comes great political and humanitarian responsibility. There have been too many atrocities in Afghanistan over the past 20 years, too much bloodshed and too little respect for human life and dignity. The international community needs to act decisively to ensure a new beginning for the people of Afghanistan which will ensure political stability, economic prosperity and the vindication of the fundamental rights and freedoms of the long-suffering people of Afghanistan.

Members will know that I have just returned from New York. At the UN, I attended special meetings of the Security Council on Afghanistan and on terrorism. Against the background of the rapidly evolving situation, the Security Council last night adopted a new resolution on Afghanistan. This affirms the central role of the UN and expresses support for the process initiated by Ambassador Brahimi, the UN special representative to Afghanistan. It also supports the efforts to form a transitional administration leading to the formation of a broad-based, multi-ethnic and fully representative Government. It stresses the need for emergency humanitarian assistance and for long-term reconstruction and rehabilitation. All parties are called on to refrain from acts of reprisal, and to adhere to international law and human rights obligations.

On Tuesday, I represented Ireland at the ministerial meeting on Afghanistan. I emphasised our hope that the military campaign against the Al Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban regime that shelters it will achieve its objectives in as short a timeframe as possible and that every effort will continue to be made to spare civilian casualties. That meeting was attended by the Secretary General, Kofi Annan, Ambassador Brahimi, myself and other Ministers. The Secretary General called for all necessary action to meet the humanitarian needs of the Afghan people and for urgent action so as to avoid a security and political vacuum. He also expressed the view that with full support from all the Afghan parties, the neighbouring countries and the international community, there was now a real opportunity to create the sort of broad-based, fully representative Government which the UN has long been trying to help the Afghan people achieve.

Ambassador Brahimi, who returned recently from the region, briefed us on his efforts and addressed the next steps. On his contacts with Afghan representatives and the Governments of Pakistan and Iran, he reported that all condemned the use of Afghan territory to support terrorism. He highlighted the need for co-operation between the neighbouring states. He stressed that the international community would have to make a massive commitment, politically and financially, to the long-term stability of Afghanistan. Meetings will now follow to widen the circle of countries. The UN deputy special representative for Afghanistan, Francesc Vendrell, is on his way to Kabul. Ambassador Brahimi outlined the next steps in the process, political, security and humanitarian. I will set these out in detail as the balance of elements underline the international commitment towards a fully representative Afghan administration.

On the political transition, the solution must come from the Afghans themselves. Discussions between the various Afghan groups will be brought together quickly under the UN to decide upon the means to establish a transitional administration. This could include: a meeting convened by the UN to agree a framework – efforts are currently under way to bring together the Afghan parties, excluding the Taliban, at a venue outside the country; concrete steps to convene a fully representative and multi-ethnic provisional council chaired by an individual, who is accepted as a focus for national unity, and several deputy chairmen; within two years the provisional council would propose the composition of a transitional administration and a programme of action, including security arrangements; an emergency traditional assembly – Loya Jirgha – to approve the transitional administration, the programme of action and security proposals and to authorise the preparation of a constitution – this would be followed by a fully-fledged Loya Jirgha at the end of the transitional phase to approve the constitution and create a Government.

Other elements which are to be elaborated on include the establishment of an international security presence pending an all-Afghan force. The UN is directing a detailed and co-ordinated humanitarian exercise to enable the delivery and distribution of aid. It is expected that Ambassador Brahimi will call together a meeting of Afghan groups in the near future.

At the meeting, I underlined our ongoing commitment to the efforts of the Secretary General and Ambassador Brahimi to achieve an equitable and balanced solution to the crisis. I stated that a strong message should go out that all parties must respect international law and human rights. I conveyed the support of the Irish Government for Ambassador Brahimi's plan and that we would seek an adequate mandate for his efforts. The UN would have to co-ordinate efforts to secure a broad-based Government with full participation of all ethnic groups. We would examine carefully the various options for security arrangements and the recommendations of the Secretary General.

I emphasised that a visible and effective humanitarian strategy was necessary, as was prompt donor disbursements. I paid particular tribute to the bravery of the UN and NGOs and condemned the Taliban's harassment of humanitarian officers. Human rights abuses, especially of women and girls, have to be reversed and the new administration held to international standards. I committed us to continue to provide all possible support, nationally at the UN and with our EU partners.

On the security situation, the UN and the international community will have a role to play in ensuring a stable future for Afghanistan. Ambassador Brahimi made it clear that his preferred option was for an all-Afghan force, supported in the interim by a multinational element. I understand that a number of UN member states have been asked to send troops to Afghanistan to assist in such an operation. It is too early at this stage to anticipate how exactly the UN's role in Afghanistan will develop. If Ireland was to be asked in the future to participate in a peacekeeping or observer mission in Afghanistan, mandated by the UN, such a request would of course be given careful consideration.

The humanitarian situation in Afghanistan remains of major and immediate concern to the Government. Our concern is shared throughout the international community where every effort is being made to meet the humanitarian needs of the vulnerable Afghan population. So far this year, £4 million has been provided in bilateral emergency assistance to that country by Ireland. Our priority is to take effective humanitarian action which will have an immediate impact before the winter season fully takes hold.

In his meeting with President Bush last Thursday, the Taoiseach highlighted the humanitarian dimension of this crisis. I have been pursuing these aspects also, notably in my meetings with other Foreign Ministers and senior UN representatives at the current session of the UN General Assembly in New York. In these latest contacts, I have emphasised that there must be a visible and effective strategy for meeting the humanitarian needs of the Afghan people over the coming period. This will provide a basis upon which the move from providing international emergency relief to supporting national reconstruction can take place. This will be an ongoing process, not a once-off project. As the initial step in this process, we cannot afford to waver in our delivery of humanitarian assistance. It will be an important building-block in creating the conditions for a new national dispensation for the people of Afghanistan.

The latest developments in Afghanistan are opening up new areas of the country to outside access. This in turn is allowing the delivery of humanitarian assistance to a much greater number of those who are immediately at risk. They now face the hardships of a bleak winter having struggled to survive a summer of drought in the midst of ongoing conflict. The world food programme is making important strides forward in the rate of delivery of aid. Since the beginning of October it has delivered 49,000 metric tonnes of food. This includes more than 23,000 tonnes delivered since the start of November. Regionally, it has 71,000 tonnes in food stocks which can help to support more than eight million people. Of an estimated 250,000 people in Mazar-i-Sharif, 120,000 have been provided with one-month food rations by the WFP with the International Committee of the Red Cross and Crescent working to deliver similar relief packages to the remaining vulnerable population in the city.

The UN agencies, with the International Red Crescent and the NGO community, are developing a 30-day plan to address urgent humanitarian needs by region. New distribution networks are being put in place. Nearly one third of essential medical supplies have been shipped into Afghanistan. Food convoys are also under way to Herat and Kabul and it is planned to regularise them as the situation improves. Humanitarian needs and security conditions are being monitored by the hour and it is anticipated that more international aid staff will now be able to return and resume their work in assisting the aid effort. Locally employed Afghan staff have continued to work courageously in extremely dangerous conditions to sustain the delivery of aid during the withdrawal of foreign aid workers. I take this opportunity to commend their action and commitment to others in such adversity.

Recent improvements in aid delivery have resulted from concerted international action. Ireland has been strongly supportive of a number of special missions which were carried out to countries on Afghanistan's borders and which arose from the consultation process which we spearheaded during our Presidency of the UN Security Council. Visits were paid to the region by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Mr. Ruud Lubbers; the UN Secretary General's Special Representative to Afghanistan, Mr. Lakhdar Brahimi and by UN Under Secretary General, Kenzo Oshima, who is responsible for the co-ordination of humanitarian aid within Afghanistan. These special missions have led to improved aid delivery and humanitarian access to Afghanistan through neighbouring countries such as Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgystan. Along with our bilateral efforts on behalf of Irish NGOs, they have also led to an easing of the visa restrictions which had been inhibiting the work of international aid staff.

An estimated 52,000 tonnes of food aid are needed each month to meet the requirements of the vulnerable people of Afghanistan. We commend the untiring efforts of the UN agencies, the International Red Crescent and Irish and international NGOs to overcome the obstacles they face to the delivery of this aid in the field. We must give them the strong support they need, at all levels, in this major humanitarian endeavour at the outset of this century. Above all, we must consolidate each step taken so that what we do now will have a lasting, positive effect and be of lasting benefit to the Afghan people.

Unfortunately, we also face major challenges at this time. Incidents of looting and human rights violations, including extra judicial killings, are being reported daily. I categorically condemn these actions. Not only are they undermining the current humanitarian effort but they are creating a dangerous legacy of ethnic violence and hatred which has the potential to imprison Afghanistan in its past at the expense of its future. The Government calls on all parties to the conflict in Afghanistan to fully observe and uphold the principles and requirements of international human rights and humanitarian law. The looting of aid stocks and seizure of aid vehicles and equipment are utterly unacceptable and must stop. This is essential so that we can continue to provide humanitarian aid regardless of race, age, sex, ethnicity or political affiliation.

In recent days, we have seen some refugees in Iran return to Afghanistan in response to the new situation. Latterly, the number of refugees choosing to exercise this option has risen to an average of 800 per day. Should the situation in western Afghanistan stabilise further, the UN High Commission for Refugees, UNHCR, anticipates that there will be an increase in this trend. The High Commission is also exploring how it may assist those refugees who might similarly wish to return from Pakistan in light of latest developments.

Meanwhile, in a camp in south-western Afghanistan, 6,000 Afghan civilians find themselves trapped in an impasse between armed Taliban who have infiltrated the camp and the Northern Alliance forces which surround them. UNHCR is working flat out to resolve this volatile situation and is examining possible options, such as the moving of the refugees concerned across the border into Iran. It has also been reported that several thousand Afghan refugees have fled into north-west Pakistan and the UNHCR is endeavouring to assess and provide for their immediate needs.

These developments illustrate the state of flux which continues to challenge the international community in protecting those at risk, determining their precise needs and making the appropriate responses. There is no room for complacency in relation to the refugee situation. It clearly has the potential to worsen, particularly as the military fronts converge in the south of Afghanistan. I call once again, therefore, on neighbouring countries to reopen their borders so as to allow the relevant agencies to deal effectively with the refugee situation. In any event, the reopening of borders continues to be necessary to protect existing refugees and to prevent their exploitation for military or other advantage. The provision of humanitarian assistance must receive top priority from the international community. In setting out to create a new future for Afghanistan, we must help to alleviate the suffering of its people and help them to overcome the legacy of conflict, repression and drought which they have been carrying for decades.

Mr. Coveney

I thank you, Sir, for allowing this debate. I also thank the Minister for his attendance and for providing a comprehensive description and understanding of what is happening on the ground. I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak first on behalf of my party on what has been a tragic and difficult two month period since the atrocities of 11 September. I will begin by setting the scene as to why things have happened and will then proceed with a brief description of a visit I made to Pakistan and the Afghan border region and some of the people I met there. I will conclude by outlining what we as a country should do in this so-called war on terrorism that is a global challenge and will continue long after the military campaign finishes in Afghanistan, I hope sooner rather than later.

On 11 September an act of war – I do not use the term lightly – and extreme terrorism was committed on the USA. The world was shocked as the centre of commercial life in the western world and the symbol of prosperity that has made America the super power it is, was attacked with a massive loss of innocent life. Six thousand people from over 70 different countries died a terrifying death. As the investigation was put together it became clear that the overwhelming evidence pointed to the involvement of Osama bin Laden as the person responsible for the atrocity, as he had been previously responsible for atrocities at the US embassy in Kenya and earlier bombings at the World Trade Centre.

The US immediately took the lead in aggressively putting together a worldwide alliance against terrorism. On 7 October the inevitable US-led military campaign in Afghanistan began, supported under the UN Charter and based on the right of any nation to use reasonable means to defend itself having been attacked. As I understand it, the objectives were outlined at the time. The first is to destroy the Al-Qaeda network of terrorist training camps within Afghanistan. Others were to find and, if possible, capture Osama bin Laden and to remove the extremist Taliban regime, which for some time has supported and harboured terrorist activity under the name of Al-Qaeda.

The result in Afghanistan was a war on three fronts, the military campaign, the humanitarian campaign and the political and diplomatic challenges we face. Ireland has joined the global alliance on terrorism and is an ally of the US in its efforts. As the country's representatives in this House we must ask what we can and should do to actively assist in the war on terrorism and, perhaps most importantly, to ensure that the tactics adopted are fair and humane, even in the extreme circumstances that exist.

During the week the Dáil was in recess I spent five days in Pakistan. I considered it important that in view of the fact that the country had joined the global alliance on terrorism, we should be as informed as possible, both on the Opposition and Government benches, on what is happening there. In that five days I learned more about international politics than I had the rest of my life. I also learnt about the massive humanitarian challenge we face in that part of the world.

I flew from Islamabad to Quetta, a city near the southern border of Afghanistan. We travelled with a Concern aid agency under military escort across the Kojak mountains to a town called Chaman, with which the Minister will be familiar. It is right on the border with Afghanistan and is a place where the majority of refugees who have fled from Kandahar have been crossing, despite the fact the Pakistan border is officially closed to all but refugees who are severely ill or injured. Many refugees are streaming across to a staging camp which has been set up by a Cork man working for UNHCR. I interviewed many of those refugees and asked why they were fleeing, whether it was the fear of being bombed, because they needed to find food, or because of the Taliban regime. At the time to a man – I was not allowed speak to the women – they said they were fleeing because of fear of the bombing.

It is important to state that when the bombing began in Afghanistan on 7 October the majority of Afghans probably celebrated, and I have facts to back up that statement. They felt this was the beginning of the end of a very unpopular regime. The Taliban has less than 10% political support which lies in only one community of many. There were celebrations in many parts of the country, but as the bombing continued and as the number of innocent civilian casualties mounted, that feeling changed quite dramatically. What was most worrying politically was the intense hatred among so many people crossing the border for the west and in particular for the US because they knew people who had been killed and because they had been driven from their homes. That is the tragedy of warfare and it has to be accepted by realists.

I spoke to politicians in Pakistan, including Imran Khan, a former cricket player, and Illahi bus Soomro, a former Speaker of the House in Pakistan. They had slightly differing views but both agreed that Pakistan was in danger of becoming quite unstable politically if the military campaign continued at length. They will be very relieved that an end to the military campaign is perhaps in sight.

It is important to say the amount of work being done in Afghanistan by Irish aid agencies and people to relieve the suffering of innocent people is phenomenal. Aid agencies such as Concern, GOAL and Trócaire, and people such as the man I already referred to who works for UNHCR and set up a refugee camp, Nora Hyland, a UN adviser on humanitarian issues – the list of Irish people there is very long – are doing our country proud and are contributing to dealing with the consequences of the war on terrorism.

I went from Pakistan to New York as I felt it was important to get balance on the issue. I spoke to some politicians there and our Ambassador to the UN, Richard Ryan. I visited ground zero, an experience which hit me like a tonne of bricks. Any doubt I had that what happened on 11 September was not an act of war was put to bed. There are 16 acres of desolation in the centre of downtown Manhattan, the financial centre of the world, and it is still smoking and smouldering. Dust still gets caught in one's throat, nose and eyes, and I will not forget it for some time. I was really struck by the relatives of people who died, whom I met and who are still there praying and keeping updated photographs of their loved ones on walls.

At this stage we must look at Ireland's specific role in the war on terrorism which has rapidly moved through its first stage. We should not waste our time and effort in being overly critical of the US military campaign. We have far more credibility in other areas and aspects of the war on which we should concentrate. I congratulate the Minister who has done a very good job for Ireland during our chairmanship of the Security Council, who continues to do a good job and is extremely informed on what is happening. As a result we are focusing on the areas where we have credibility. We are constantly highlighting humanitarian issues in the UN and we are being listened to. It is perhaps fair to say the humanitarian effort would have been far less significant had it not been for the role Ireland played on the Security Council during October. The consultation process which took place in the Security Council would not have been as comprehensive if Ireland had not shown leadership in how it chaired the Security Council. I congratulate Richard Ryan in particular, and the Minister. We must also play a role in finding political answers to what is a very complex situation in Afghanistan which is constantly developing and changing. I will read an e-mail I received from a friend I made in UNHCR, who had spent much time working in Afghanistan preceding the bombing. Two weeks ago he outlined for me a road map for settlement. He said:

Legitimacy is the key to the transition. The former King and the UN both command legitimacy and their leading role will massively strengthen any political process. The Security Council is under an obligation to restore international security which has clearly been breached, and the US will continue to exercise self-defence until the Security Council fulfils its obligation. The basic formula is well known. The Security Council should mandate the Secretary General to convene an Afghan transitional Government [I am glad that while that exact process is not happening, something very similar is taking place]. The Secretary General should request the King to preside over the transitional Government, including its compact leadership council, with the appropriate ethnic mix [Something very similar to that is also happening, which I welcome]. Finally, when it is able to establish itself in Afghanistan the transitional Government can proceed with establishing a national army, co-ordinating the reconstruction programme and drafting a new constitution. It will then hold a Loya Jirgha to adopt the constitution, followed by free and open elections.

I am very pleased and relieved to see that what people have spent a large portion of their lives trying to do in Afghanistan and what they are promoting as the right solutions seem to be coming about far sooner then I expected. The international community was incredibly taken aback by how quickly things have changed militarily in Afghanistan, and it has been caught somewhat unawares by this from a political perspective. As we have been caught unawares we need to respond quickly, which requires leadership from the UN.

I welcome the UN motion which was adopted last night. In the meantime, while transitional talks take place, it is essential that we use our influence to insist that an international peacekeeping force, primarily representative of Muslim countries, goes into Kabul, Mazar-i-Sharif and other towns such as Herat which need stability during this key period while there is a political vacuum. The Northern Alliance asked for UN assistance and we should provide it immediately while the political process is being put in place. I appeal to the Minister to continue to use his influence to drive the humanitarian and political agendas where Ireland has credibility. We should not waste time being critical of a military campaign which is trying to achieve objectives and a success that can be sold to the American people.

Mr. M. Higgins

I welcome the opportunity to speak on Afghanistan and its future. I believe there is a consensus in this House and internationally that the delivery of aid in the most efficient and humane manner possible is probably the greatest task facing us. I would like to use the time available to me to review a number of matters. The Minister will be aware that the difference between us is in the interpretation of one resolution, even though there are other matters on which we agree.

I will use my time to introduce headings. What should we learn from the appalling events that have taken place? I have on many occasions condemned the appalling atrocity where 6,000 people lost their lives within one hour and which left 100,000 children without parents. I have been unconditional and unequivocal in my condemnation of that atrocity. The Irish public and I learned something from what took place following the response to these atrocities in New York. One was the way in which the international media covers acts of war but does not cover acts of human suffering. There are just under 21.5 million people in Afghanistan. There are two million refugees in Pakistan, two million in Iran, perhaps 2.5 million people internally displaced, plus several thousand in Tajikistan. Prior to the events of 11 September, an incredible human disaster was unfolding in Afghanistan, which precedes the Taliban. I welcome the end of a regime which brutalised women in particular, was intolerant and represented the very worst possible distortion of Islam. After the long war against the occupation of the Soviet Union and the later civil wars appalling human rights atrocities took place in Afghanistan.

I wonder whether we will ever see Sky television covering circumstances where 10% of children under five years of age suffer from acute malnutrition, 24% of children under five die from measles and another 22%, one child in five, die from diarrhoea. The two latter diseases are preventable. I will not go into the matter now because I do not have time but in the middle of the 1990s the world spent $12 billion on preventable diseases such as those I mentioned and $846 billion on armaments. Sky television and other sections of the media have an obsession with the coverage of war and a singular ignorant incapacity to deal with the regular structural sources of death affecting children and populations who are malnourished. That matter is for another day but it raises the question, following the recent events, of whether interest will wane.

Now is the time for people whose morality is challenged by these events to continue the difficult exercises in diplomacy to put together a post-Taliban situation and, even more urgently, to continue to be conscious of the degree of aid required. Approximately 40% of the aid pledged has arrived. The figure of 52,000 tonnes has been upgraded to approximately 70,000, which will probably be needed. However, these figures will change as some refugees return home and people begin to assess the numbers of displaced people within the country.

It would be very wrong to suggest that the events that have taken place amount to a victory for bombing over diplomacy. It remains my conviction that the strengthening of the United Nations is still one of the major aims of foreign policy, and must be so. Deputy Coveney referred to the legitimacy that might be sourced in the former King Shah and in the United Nations. While the United Nations has suffered from previous experiences, it has often suffered also from being weakened. I agree that Resolution 1333 of November 2000 which called on the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden was ignored and neglected. I agree with Resolution 1373 which calls for a campaign against terrorism to be internationally supported. It has my support given the threat of international terrorism. I have a question in regard to Resolution 1368 because I believe Article 51 of chapter VII of the United Nations Charter is invoked ex post facto rather than anything else. Article 51 reads as follows:

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

It is absolutely urgent to put the Security Council at the centre of things. I believe the role for Ireland in the Security Council, in particular in terms of its influence in the General Assembly, enjoying support such as 130 votes out of a membership of 189, is to revitalise the role of the United Nations at this stage.

It would be very appropriate for Ireland to convene an international conference to face the issue of debating Islam and the west. There are few more dangerous notions than those reflected in Professor Huntingdon's articles of approximately 1996 on the clash of civilisations. This is a dangerous nonsense. It assumes that one is able to profile easily what constitutes the west. When I say it is rather ignorantly informed, the west itself draws much of its inspiration from the Mesopotamian Valley and from different sources, including Judaic and Christian cultures and which, in turn, are influenced by other thousands of years old cultures. Equally, militant fundamentalist Islam, and the different factions of it, is a quite recent creation, and Islam goes further back. The west has been very slow to acknowledge the existence of other world civilisations and to abandon notions of the supremacy of one over the other. There is an urgent need now to try to understand the reasons that behind this is a deep distrust among Muslim communities of the culture of Islam. It is little less than tragic that there are those who propagate a view that is an encouragement of hate when the very tenets of the text of the faith which they profess are ones of co-existence. Ireland would earn huge credibility by taking an initiative in this regard. It has to be taken by a country perceived as being able to lift itself out of the theory of interest.

My fourth point relates to the theory of interest. International policy conducted on the basis of friends and enemies, friends of today and former enemies of yesterday, is not only short-term, but incapable of generating a long-term foreign policy. If one is exercising sanctions against a body in one year and, less than one year later, regarding it as a most essential friend, even as a matter of expediency in response to an act of terror, that is not a stable basis for a relationship within international policy. Foreign policy has to be informed by the prosecution of aims that transcend particular relationships, even ones structured around interest.

We are now entering on an incredible task. There is an opportunity, within the next two weeks before the heavy snows come, to flood Afghanistan with relief aid. In addition, we must commit ourselves to the technical reconstruction of the country, in terms of water and sanitation. The diseases to which I referred, causing tragic loss of life of children under five years, are preventable, such as those related to measles and diarrhoea. It is important to address the issues thrown up by this conflict – the obscenity of the recruitment of child soldiers, the recruitment into factions, on all sides, of young people under 18 years of age.

We are all edified by the role of our NGOs, such as Concern, Trocaire, GOAL and the international agencies to which we make contributions, including the Red Cross and UNICEF, which produces the very best figures and profiles of the need in Afghanistan. It would be even more edifying if there could be as much interest internationally, in a media sense, in the work of these organisations as in preparing for war.

We are at a crossroads. It must be recognised now that it is not the bombing which will have brought a result. What is important is to restore the relationship between diplomacy and military action. Those countries with the greatest military capacity do not have the right to supplant diplomacy. It is only by operating under the aegis of international law, in multilateral institutions to which people sign up as equals in the charter, that we can have a world that will give us a humane kind of governance. In making that point, one is not anti anybody, but simply stating that it is the role of small countries to vindicate international law. We must insist that, when actions take place, the public has a right to hear and see – there must not be censorship on actions. We have seen too little of the civilian dimensions of what is taking place in Afghanistan. We need to see the civilian dimensions of the aid need and have it covered accurately. In saying this, I make no criticism of the Minister – this matter is not his function – but I suspect he agrees with much of what I have said in relation to the coverage of the civilian side of the situation.

I agree with the Minister's comments as to how outrageous and unacceptable it is that there are arbitrary executions and that people are tried without due process. Perhaps it is too much to hope there would not be instincts for retribution and revenge, but they have to be addressed. Some of those who now temporarily hold power, ahead of any transitional arrangements, have themselves been indicted for human rights crimes. This is a horrific situation and there is no easy solution. The approach during the coming weeks and months must be through the support of the United Nations and on a regional and structured basis.

Pakistan has certainly not come out of this in exactly the same state as before the conflict began. It is changed utterly. There have been most extensive demonstrations within it. Its head of Government is non-elected. There is a whole series of redefinitions of what should happen on the border. There is a case for the opening of the borders, to which the Minister referred. This is essential to enable genuine refugees to flee to camps where they can be appropriately and safely provided for. Pakistan needs to be assured of wherewithal to run and sustain these camps. That support needs to be delivered now.

I hope there will be continuing public interest in the tasks of reconstruction and the avoidance of death through malnutrition. I suggest there should be another opportunity to review, in greater depth than time allows today, the overall circumstance in which Resolution 1368 came to be accepted and prevail.

Mr. P. Carey

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I was greatly impressed by the Minister's analysis and critique in his statement, which was in keeping with the keen interest he has taken in the evolving situation in Afghanistan. I also compliment Deputy Coveney on his contribution to the debate and his media interviews which I heard on RTE and elsewhere. A cross-party approach is important in this evolving situation.

The Minister said that, with military success, there also comes great political and humanitarian responsibility. Ireland has made its contribution through the UN Security Council. In view of the strong support with which Ireland was elected to the presidency of the Security Council, we have a moral authority which we should not underestimate. In our presidency in October the Minister exercised that moral authority in a manner which enhanced Ireland's contribution at that level.

The evolving situation has two aspects. On the military aspect, I agree with those who said it is not a matter of bombing Afghanistan into the ground. The strategy should be measured and deliberate. That point of view is now coming to the fore. We must also focus on the humanitarian aspect, which Ireland has promoted from the very outset. The Afghan people need a new beginning, with the right support. Ambassador Richard Ryan has been very anxious to emphasise the need to develop a post-Taliban regime in Afghanistan while recognising that this will not be an easy task. The advent of the winter snows very shortly will bring complicating factors, both militarily and in relation to humanitarian interventions. I welcome the news this morning of the safe return to Islamabad of the humanitarian aid workers and take this opportunity to compliment the various NGOs, other agencies and aid workers for the work they are doing and continue to do in Afghanistan. The challenge for them will be great and the distribution of food programme is vital.

I note the overnight news that the Security Council has endorsed a resolution on proposals for a broad based post-Taliban Afghan government. That is a positive step towards a transitional government. With the various tribes and warlords who have been fighting in Afghanistan for many years it will pose an enormous challenge to the international community. However this is a challenge we must take up and now is the time for the UN to assert its moral authority and I am impressed that the Security Council is taking a lead role in the post-Taliban developments. Clearly Ambassador Brahimi and Kofi Annan along with the members of the Security Council are acutely aware of the opportunities that now exist.

I am concerned that that area, including Pakistan, may be destabilised further and this will particularly affect the Pashtun tribe which has been partitioned over generations. With the Taliban being forced into a corner there is a danger that those tribes may in turn cause destabilisation in Pakistan. We must recognise the risks the Pakistani government took in supporting the alliance against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

We cannot ignore the fact that bin Laden and Mullah Mohammed Omar are still at large. Whether they are captured or killed is somewhat irrelevant, but they need to be brought to justice. There is a danger that we may create martyrs and we need to avoid that.

The need for humanitarian aid is critical and the programme to distribute food is continuing. However after a summer of drought and years of destitution and cruelty under a variety of regimes, we now need to ensure the Afghan people have at least the basics of human living. They need to have shelter, food and a decent level of health support, otherwise there will be a very disillusioned and angry people in Afghanistan.

The need to bring together the disparate groups in Afghanistan is laudable. However it will not happen quickly. The Minister knows the challenges that face the Security Council and Ambassador Brahimi in trying to broker a new regime. It is easy to concentrate on the present crisis but we tend to forget that Afghanistan has been a melting pot of war and ethnic cleansing for generations. We should not think that a new government can be put in place easily.

The Muslim community has a distinct culture and we need to be careful about trying to impose models of governance on Afghanistan which might replicate what we would regard as stable government. In the past some governments, which have been erroneously imposed sometimes on subservient peoples, have unravelled very shortly afterwards.

Whether the United Nations sends a peacekeeping contingent there is something which ought to be decided. The Minister has said that if Ireland were called upon to make a peacekeeping contribution, that would be looked at. Whatever UN peacekeeping groups go in, they will need to have a cultural understanding of the region. That may influence our contribution.

Humanitarian assistance is critical. Like others, I pay tribute to organisations like Trócaire, UNICEF, GOAL, the Red Cross and the many aid workers already there. It is extremely important to reopen borders as adverted to by Deputy Michael Higgins. If the flood of refugees either out of or into Afghanistan is impeded by political decisions by governments on whatever side of Afghanistan, then there is a danger of precipitating a very great humanitarian crisis. That needs to be avoided at all costs.

We all condemn unreservedly reports that there have been atrocities against innocent people in Afghanistan of whatever tribe or ethnic background. There are no excuses for that kind of attempt at exerting authority or inflicting particular viewpoints on innocent people. It was heartening to see there is some move in the direction of a more liberal regime even by what must be loosely called an interim post-Taliban government.

Undoubtedly there will be a difficult time ahead. The Minister and his colleagues on the Security Council know the magnitude of the chal lenge. I thank him for coming here and for the work they continue to do.

Mrs. Owen

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on this crucial debate. As members of any democratic parliament, we should continue to be involved in what now happens in Afghanistan. Ireland has a fine record of involvement at a humanitarian and political level in many of the horrendous atrocities and areas of conflict throughout the world. I agree with my colleague, Deputy Coveney, that Ireland must offer to do what it is best at doing. We should not involve ourselves in areas in which we do not have expertise. We are not a military nation. We are a neutral nation. We have no experience of participation in war.

I commend the Minister and his staff at the UN for what they have done. There has been a steady hand at UN level and that should continue. The Minister has been committed to recognising the humanitarian aspects of this conflict that are now foremost in our minds.

I also pay tribute to my colleague, Deputy Coveney, who was the only Member of this House to go out there. He has prepared many fine reports for the media, giving us a first hand account of what it was like to see the refugees flooding into Pakistan. Despite the fact that the borders were closed, people were doing anything they could to get out of Afghanistan. Now the reverse is happening and the Deputy has done us all proud by being there to give us a first-hand, eye witness account. I know how much I gained from being in Rwanda after the atrocities there and seeing the suffering. Deputy Coveney, I know from speaking to him, is personally changed by what he witnessed, and I thank him for sharing his views with us.

I remind the House what our ambassador, Richard Ryan, said at the Security Council meeting on 12 September in the immediate aftermath of the attacks of 11 September:

Respect for the human rights of each and every person, for the right of every nation and every human being to live in freedom and dignity. These are the fundamental principles of the United Nations. It is these values that the perpetrators of yesterday's crimes seek to destroy. In our sorrow and loss, it is also right today to clearly assert that from evil can only come evil, that no cause can ever succeed that is based on mass murder and carnage, that those who perpetrate such deeds are the enemies of all people everywhere.

These words echoed our own feelings after the atrocities perpetrated on the people of the United States on 11 September. We must also remember the rights spoken of by Richard Ryan at this difficult time when the Northern Alliance has taken over Kabul and the United Nations has publicly called for serious consideration of who will now govern Afghanistan. I welcome the fact that the United Nations passed a motion calling for a meeting in the United Arab Emirates to discuss Afghanistan's future.

The people, who were for the time being the friends of those who wanted to attack the perpetrators of 11 September, have themselves, as Mary Robinson said, a bad human rights record. I hope that this is a turning point in how the United States views its role in international affairs. They will have to consider more who are their friends and what help they give to whom at times when it seems appropriate to their interests. We must remember that once Osama bin Laden and his cohorts were considered the "goodies", to use such parlance, whom America wanted to assist.

I hope that the United Nations will intervene in Afghanistan to create the necessary – and I hate this expression – window of opportunity for those who respect the human rights and dignity of their own people to govern Afghanistan. Resolutions 1368 and 1373 remind us, by mentioning other conventions and regulations which the UN expects member countries to implement, of the lassitude of its members which have acted only when forced to take action against the financing of terrorism and the countries that support it. The UN has many fine and aspirational conventions and regulations which we are slow to put into force. Hence, Resolution 1368 refers to Resolution 1269 of 19 October 1999 which has not been implemented.

The humanitarian crisis which existed in Afghanistan for years before 11 September, and will continue to exist despite the actions of the American and British forces, is only receiving attention now because of recent events. We should learn from this that something, which is in the news and we want to discuss, should not be forgotten when the heat dies down. The Minister stated that 52,000 tonnes of food is required each month in Afghanistan which represents a monumental logistics problem. I hope that in the coming weeks we will see more safe corridors being created in addition to the opening of the Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan borders. The food must go to the people who need it and if the refugees in Pakistan return home, the food and aid must follow them. I support what Deputy Michael Higgins said about supporting the neighbouring countries that find themselves, willingly or otherwise, playing host to thousands of people.

It happened to the countries bordering Rwanda and Burundi. Tanzanians who visited me recently informed me that there are still border refugee camps in remote areas of Tanzania where the Government has not the resources to assist them. We know, as a wealthy country, the extra resources that Departments have to find to give succour to refugees, such as those from the Bal kan war. It is much more difficult for these countries receiving refugees.

Many of those in the camps want to go home. I know from my own sources that the work of Irish agencies, Concern, Trócaire, GOAL, Christian Aid, and others is important. Whatever it takes to loosen the purse strings and regulations in this emergency must be done. I pay tribute to those agency workers.

As the Minister already heard at the Committee on Foreign Affairs, combining aid drops with bombing should never happen again because it fudges the lines between a humanitarian and a military exercise and gives a wrong impression. I recognise it was an emergency but we do not know if the food reached the people who most needed it.

Mr. Gormley

I attended a meeting in Limerick last week with Senator Jackman at which I was asked what would happen next. I predicted that the Northern Alliance would take Mazar-i-Sharif and then rapidly go on to Kabul, but I was not able to predict what would happen after that. I said that a situation could emerge which would make Beirut look like a picnic. We will have an unstable situation on our hands. Our so-called friends the Northern Alliance, whom the allies assisted, are a disreputable bunch of cut-throats who have replaced another bunch of cut-throats. The statistics on the Northern Alliance do not make pleasant reading. In 1996, when they left Kabul, they left behind 50,000 dead. They were responsible for 80% of the drugs trade. Stopping the movement of heroin was one of the reasons given by Tony Blair for going into Afghanistan. For all the atrocities that the Taliban committed, it was not responsible for the drugs trade. These were the people who were told not to enter Kabul, but that was a vain hope and they went in. Now we hear they are rejecting the offer of UN troops. Matters are very unstable, particularly in Pakistan where a very dim view of the Northern Alliance has always been taken.

This is going to be very difficult to sort out in the short-term. We have been told that US and UK troops will be sent in. I am not quite sure if this will be done under a UN mandate or by way of resolution. What role, if any, is Ireland going to play? Are our troops going to be sent to this unstable area? I have grave reservations about that prospect at this juncture.

It now seems that I cannot be given information in response to parliamentary questions on grounds of national security. That is regrettable. What does the Minister mean by this? Does it mean that if the information is given to me that Ireland will suddenly become a target? Why would we be a target? Clearly, it is because we are now part of the American war effort. We have gone beyond what we should have done. Giving our airports and airspace has compro mised Irish neutrality to such an extent that it can be forgotten about – at least as far as the Government is concerned.

I listened to Tony Blair speak while on his recent tour of the region. I was somewhat encouraged when he talked about looking at the root causes. Likewise, we heard noises from the United States recognising, for the first time, that there may now have to be a Palestinian state. That is all very encouraging. I hope this will not be forgotten in the euphoria of this partial victory and that the root causes will be addressed.

We seem to have forgotten about Mr. Bin Laden. He was the prime target of this exercise, but is still at large with his cohorts. The propaganda issued by Bin Laden referred to Palestine, sanctions in Iraq and the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia. If we forget about these issues and pursue a military rather than multilateral approach, conditions will not improve in the slightest.

Mr. Bin Laden has secured a propaganda coup and attracted many young people to his cause. One remembers another martyr, Che Guevara, who was murdered in Bolivia as he travelled with a troop of only 14 men. After his death thousands flocked to his cause. Something similar could happen with Bin Laden.

We should have had a far more proportionate response which could have involved a broad range of interests had we waited a little longer. I fully understand the pressure that the US President was under, people were baying for revenge, but this approach will not yield any great success. We are now seeing geo-political games being played out. The beneficiaries are the Russians, who supply the Northern Alliance, and the United States, which has carried out the bombing.

We are not in a better situation. Those who suffered under the Taliban will naturally feel this liberation for a period. However, as we have previously seen, the Northern Alliance does not respect human rights either. Perhaps US and UK troops can restore some semblance of order if they go into the country, but this will lead to a new and different set of conditions. We saw British troops hailed as heroes and given cups of tea in the Bogside when they came first, but it turned sour shortly afterwards. Something similar could well happen in Afghanistan and continue for many, many years. I hope it will not turn out like that.

I hope the United Nations will bring sanity to this, but that is not a great hope. I am extremely disappointed with its lily-livered approach up to now. There was no UN mandate for this action, there was simply the very broad Resolution 1368. The United Nations needs to restore its authority, not let the United States call the shots.

The humanitarian issue is of the utmost importance. We must help bordering countries in every possible way. The refugee problem is going to get much worse now that winter is looming. We may have opened some passages in order that food can be moved by land, but enormous difficulties remain. I hope the United Nations will play a major role. All we can do is watch as developments unfold, but I still believe we are witnessing a wrong approach that will not yield positive results in the long-term. I hope the Government, using its seat on the Security Council, can persuade people to change, but looking at how we have capitulated to bigger powers so far, I do not hold out much hope.

Mr. Healy

I wish to share my time with Deputy Joe Higgins.

Like all right-thinking people throughout the world, we unreservedly condemned the atrocities of 11 September in the United States. I had hoped the response would have been led by the United Nations and made use of the International Criminal Court. Even at this late stage I appeal to the Government and the United Nations to ensure the International Criminal Court is brought into being as soon as possible. It is only if matters of justice are dealt with by an independent International Criminal Court that the future will be brighter than what we have seen in the past six weeks.

The response to the events of 11 September should not see the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world waging war on the poorest. We know there were seven million Afghan refugees before the war started with two million each in Pakistan and Iran, 1.5 million displaced in Afghanistan and the rest spread throughout Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and other countries. Hundreds of thousands of children were dying annually from malnutrition and measles, two minor illnesses which could be treated with little funding from and the goodwill of the international community.

The Northern Alliance has replaced the Taliban in most of Afghanistan and, unfortunately, one regime with an abysmal human rights record has been exchanged for another. The UN has confirmed that the Northern Alliance, which ruled in Kabul until 1996, perpetrated significant human rights atrocities against the people of Afghanistan.

It is vitally important that we focus on the question of aid and the opening of air and road corridors for the Afghan people. In Afghanistan winter will set in within the next ten days or fortnight and if aid cannot get into the country and distribution stations are not set up quickly, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people will die. I thank the various aid workers who have been working along the Afghan border for Irish aid agencies such as Trócaire, Concern and GOAL. I hope they will be allowed into the country to set up distribution and aid centres over the next week to counter malnutrition and so on.

I would like the UN to become directly involved in building a broad-based democratic Government in the country and I support the call for UN peacekeeping forces to be sent there. I would also like the UN and the international community generally to ensure Afghanistan's infrastructure is rebuilt, particularly in terms of water and sewerage schemes and roads, many of which have been destroyed by the aerial bombardment of the past month or six weeks. The international community has a responsibility in this regard and the rebuilding should commence as soon as possible.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): The war that is being prosecuted in Afghanistan is allegedly a war for freedom and democracy. That demonstrably is a lie. The US and Britain, in their foreign policies, are not principled supporters of freedom and democracy. The contrary is true in instance after instance. The US is still the main sponsor of Saudi Arabia, which is ruled by a monstrous regime. Democratic rights are non-existent, civil rights are openly flouted, medieval barbarism reigns in terms of punishment for minor transgressions and foreign workers are grotesquely exploited, yet the country is armed and supported in every way by the US.

Since Mr. Blair came to power five years ago he has honoured the contracts to supply armaments to Indonesia which has a brutal regime that was responsible for vicious massacres of the people of East Timor. The infamous example of Chile in 1973 still has resonance today. A left-wing democratic Government was brought down by the machinations of US intelligence with the backing of the US administration. Recently Mr. Blair has been leading a coalition allegedly for the arrest of alleged terrorist, Osama bin Laden, portraying himself as a monumental hypocrite. He had a proven mass murderer, General Pinochet, in his hands only two years ago and instead of putting him on trial he made sure he returned safely to Chile.

The question for the US and Britain is not whether one is a mass murderer but on whose behalf one carries out mass murder. If mass murder is carried out on behalf of American and British-based multinational corporations that are making profits and keeping a foothold in pursuit of the foreign policies of these countries, then it is all right. However, if it is carried out for different reasons, it is not all right and a war is launched against the perpetrators.

The Northern Alliance, as has been stated by other speakers, has been responsible for killings and lootings. When an army has surrendered or is on the run it is a crime against humanity to arbitrarily shoot and murder people. The new-found champions of democracy sponsored by the US, the Northern Alliance, is engaged in such activity. The Taliban operated an absolutely monstrous regime but it was up to the people of Afghanistan to get rid of the regime, similar to the removal of Milosevic, which was the responsibility of the Serbian people.

Terrorism is a reactionary and futile force but it feeds off the crimes of western powers and foreign policy. The oppression of the Palestinians and the monstrous suffering imposed on the Iraqis will continue to feed terrorism because the current campaign is not resolving those issues. It is amazing the Minister for Foreign Affairs did not mention these problems in his contribution. The Government, far from taking an independent line, has displayed pitiful helplessness and total subservience to the US on this issue. It is from the cesspit of poverty, suffering and degradation that is the plight of billions of people in the world that monstrous acts of terror emanate.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

When I spoke here in a debate on 3 October, I said I was opposed, as I believed most people were and are, to a war of retaliation in Afghanistan in the wake of the 11 September atrocities in the US. Since then we have witnessed such a war. We do not yet know how many innocent civilians have been killed in the bombardment of that impoverished country but it must run into thousands, yet the civilians killed in Afghanistan are regarded as of less account than those killed in the US. We hear little or nothing of their families and the devastation left behind by sudden and violent bereavement. Instead, we have this war portrayed in the media in the most jingoistic manner.

We have witnessed the obscenity of food and cluster bombs being dropped at the same time. One of the most land-mined countries in the world has had vast stretches of its lands rendered even more deadly with the dropping of millions of cluster bombs and other ordnance which leaves a horrific legacy to Afghan children. Now that the war has reached a decisive phase, we must ask again what are the war aims of the US and Britain and their allies in Afghanistan. Are they to capture or kill Osama bin Laden? Is it to put him on trial? Is it to install the Northern Alliance? Is it to occupy the country as the British Empire, the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union tried and failed to do in the past? We do not know.

We have not been told and it seems the Taoiseach and Minister for Foreign Affairs have not asked these critical questions. They certainly did not ask them before they gave a carte blanche for the use of our airports when we did not even know the nature of the proposed attacks. Why has the Government not questioned the very shaky premise on which the war has been based? The premise is that by hunting down Osama bin Laden the allies will be able to quell his network of active supporters both in Afghanistan and throughout the world.

Anyone who knows anything about the history of conflicts knows that this approach is doomed to failure. They cannot hope to suppress violent fundamentalism by military means. Everything reasonable and consistent with human rights should be done to defend people against it but its origins and the conditions which sustain it are far too complex for a quick fix military solution. It is clear that what is needed now in Afghanistan is the immediate intervention of the United Nations, including peacekeeping forces, to ensure that a truly representative interim government can be established and can function. The downtrodden women of Afghanistan should be given their rightful place in that new dispensation. The brutal civil wars which have wrecked Afghanistan throughout the 1980s and 1990s were fought by those forces originally armed and backed by the Western powers when they were trying to drive out the Soviet Union. Peace in Afghanistan cannot be based on foreign arms of whatever origin. There, as elsewhere, peace can only be based on national self-determination, respect for human rights and democratic government. Go raibh maith agat.

An Ceann Comhairle

That concludes statements on Afghanistan. We will now proceed to Question Time.