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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 24 Oct 2002

Vol. 556 No. 2

Other Questions. - Pension Provisions.

David Stanton

Ceist:

12 Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the number of pensioners who are in receipt of a UK pension, payable through her Department; if her Department is reviewing this category of pensioners in view of exchange differences between sterling and the euro; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [19537/02]

There are almost 107,000 pensioners receiving an Irish non-contributory old age, blind or survivor's pension. Of these, some 10,577, 10%, also receive a British retirement pension. These contributory British pensions are paid directly to the people concerned by the UK Department of Social Security and not through my Department.

These Irish pensions are means-tested and entitlement is affected by changes in pensioners' means, including the value of their British pensions. Entitlement is reviewed periodically to take account of increases in the British pensions and allowance is made, at this stage, for the effects of changes in the exchange rate since the previous review.

The latest review of entitlement in these cases was completed some months ago. In the event that a currency fluctuation or some other factor gives rise to a reduction in a pensioner's means, it is open to him or her to have his or her entitlement reviewed by writing to my Department indicating the circumstances giving rise to the request. Sterling appreciated fairly significantly in the past two to three years against the ECU and, therefore, against the Irish punt. This increased the value of British pensions to Irish-resident clients. More recently, this favourable sterling exchange rate has remained broadly stable at those higher levels against the euro. The current relatively stable exchange rate would not of itself warrant further systematic reviews of BRPs. Any future review work on these cases, taking account of UK budget rates increases on British retirement pensions themselves, will take into account the exchange rate then prevailing.

This is the meanest of the mean and it is the one thing that upset my constituents. People who have worked in England have British pensions. This Government takes money from them because sterling was stronger than the punt and now the euro. It is the one issue that has continued to arise during my time in politics. Like the Minister I come from a county where there has been major emigration and many people are who are receiving partial British pensions are penalised by the Government. They were receiving an Irish pension, were assessed and the money was taken from them. That is the meanest of the mean. We talked about the Nice referendum for the past three or four weeks and the funding we received from Europe. We were funded by these emigrants in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s when this economy was on its knees. That was the money that kept it alive. When those people returned to live here they received a small portion of the Irish pension. The next thing a social welfare officer visited them, examined their circumstances and took the money from them. That is outrageous. The changeover from sterling to the euro is too high and is calculated too early in the year. The Department was not as fast at giving it back to them when the situation was reversed. The Government did nothing for them. This is wrong and the Minister should speak to her officials in this regard. These people are in the latter part of their lives. They have worked hard for their money, contributed to the State but are getting only a portion of a pension. This is mean.

Some of the Minister's colleagues in Donegal were annoyed when the Department pursued 10,000 of these clients. That was the figure given by the Minister's predecessor. What has the Department saved? What was the average cutback? The Minister may not have the information today but I would like her to submit it to me. I agree with the previous speaker that this cut was the meanest of the mean. In my county, like that of the Minister and Deputy Ring, thousands were forced to emigrate to England. They were glad of a job. They have a small pension from their work there and it is being used against them.

I visited an elderly person in Cootehill who depends on the small British pension to allow her obtain extra home help which is not available from the health board. It was a mean cut. How much did the State benefit?

Acting Chairman

We will take another supplementary question.

This is red tape which annoys people more than anything. We do not make much money from it. Will the Minister work out how much is saved and what it will cost to implement this examination and recoup the money?

What will happen to the Christmas bonus for British pensioners? Will they be entitled to it? When I was a councillor this problem was frequently brought to my attention.

I do not know what to do with the members of the Fine Gael Party. This is not a cutback. I do not believe they know what cutbacks are. Some of them were not here when there were cutbacks because their party put the country in a black hole from which we could not escape. We are still paying for their ineptitude.

To revert to the question, I represent a Border county and I appreciate that this annoys people. Deputy Ring was correct. This is a social security scheme. People are eligible for a pension on foot of their UK contributions. We have a pro rata system. It is only when people do not have an adequate income from their social insurance in the United Kingdom that they may be eligible for a non-contributory pension. As a consequence they are eligible for other ancillary supports. Reviews take place and as a consequence there can be changes. The Department does not penalise under the reviews unless there are wholesale problems or lack of control. That has not happened. If there is a change in the UK pension and a change in the exchange rate, people on a UK pension could be better off than our non-contributory pensioners.

They helped to build the country.

Of course they did. I am not taking from the fact that times were difficult for many people over the years, they worked in other countries and came home to live. People on a UK pension who do not have adequate income as assessed by a means test are eligible to apply and are often facilitated.

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