Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 19 Nov 2002

Vol. 557 No. 4

Leaders' Questions.

Mr. Kenny

The Taoiseach and the Government gave specific commitments to the Irish people some months ago. A number of documents have been published relevant to the conduct of the affairs of the nation – the Fianna Fáil manifesto, the health strategy and the national development programme. Commitments given by the Taoiseach have not been honoured at home and international commitments in terms of Ireland's overseas aid have not been honoured. What the Taoiseach and individual Ministers say on behalf of Government are completely irrelevant, they do not mean anything.

In the context of commitments given, 200,000 people who had expected to be given medical cards are now severely disappointed; 25,000 people on waiting lists had expected those lists to be eliminated; and thousands of young people have had their dream and aspiration of house ownership shattered because of the withdrawal and abolition of the first-time house buyer's grant. Does the Taoiseach accept that he is undermining the democratic system and debasing politics by making statements, giving commitments and making promises that are clearly nothing but a web of deception? The people have been deceived to a point where Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats are back in Government, the financial situation and management of the country is in a complete shambles and people are frustrated, disappointed and angry at what has happened and by statements coming from the Taoiseach and his Ministers. Even at this late stage, will the Taoiseach reverse what has been his latest cynical and cruel announcement in the Book of Estimates last Thursday, to do down many of the commitments he gave in the past six months?

The Taoiseach

The circumstances and the setting for the publication of the Book of Estimates last week were entirely different to recent years. We have watched the decline in economic activity and growth through last year and into this year. I have put those figures and statistics before the House on many occasions and I am sure there is no need to repeat them. World economic growth has slowed markedly this year and the outlook for next year is not very different. The latest consensus forecast for this year from the Department of Finance and the Central Bank is moving towards 2% of GNP.

The first priority of the Government in dealing with the Book of Estimates was to get back to a sustainable rate of spending. This does not mean a reduction in absolute levels of spending, nor does it mean low levels of spending. Spending has risen by 40% in the past two years, so we are working from a high base. The Book of Estimates this year is low and it has to be because our revenue base has decreased – it is down to 3% whereas we predicted 8.5%. Over recent years revenue has exceeded expectations.

We cannot spend what is not there. If I was doing that the Deputy, rightly, would criticise me strongly, no matter how desirable the objective of the spending. We can all agree on certain priorities, and the Government has set out its priorities. We are continuing to put in resources. Spending next year will be over €31 billion, compared to €17 billion five years ago. We are putting this money into health, social and family affairs and education. Health spending is up 7% on a year-on-year basis, up €520 million on 2002 and up €4.9 billion, or 141%, on five years ago. Spending on social and family affairs is up nearly €300 million, or 3%, on 2002 and up €4 billion, or 70%, on 1997. Spending on education is up nearly €300 million, or 6%, on 2002, and €2.1 billion, or 71%, on five years ago. It is on a very high base.

Of course it would be very nice if increases in income matched some of these spending increases, then we would have no difficulty. The Government would be able to give large increases, although we have been criticised strongly by Deputy Kenny and everybody else for high increases in spending this year as we try to get back to the 14% level.

Deputy Kenny mentioned a number of areas and I will respond to the one directly related to a comment I made about overseas development aid, ODA. The allocation in the Abridged Estimates volume for the Ireland Aid programme next year is €373 million. It represents an increase of €33 million, almost 10% over the final allocation for 2002, so it is a very high increase in a difficult area. This demonstrates our commitment to the aid programme even in very difficult financial circumstances, and I know that is acknowledged by many of the groups involved in this area.

Mr. Kenny

Arising from that, is it likely we will see padlocks on hospital wards next year? Does the Taoiseach not agree that the number of houses going to first-time buyers is down 20% on what it used to be? Does he not accept that democracy is based on trust and that where a Government abuses the trust of its people by not honouring its commitments, it debases the entire democratic system? Arising from the publication of the Book of Estimates last week, is it not now a fact that the three documents before me – the national development plan, the health strategy and Fianna Fáil's A Lot Done, More to Do – are now in shreds and are as completely and utterly irrelevant as the comments being made by the Government?

Ms O. Mitchell

They are on the best-seller fiction list for Christmas.

The Taoiseach

The capital programme next year is €5.3 billion, which again represents an enormous increase and it puts us well ahead of most other countries of our size. The Minister for Health and Children has announced an increase of €694 million in health spending next year. This is an enormous increase, 154%. He outlined last week details of the health strategy. The extra money provides funding for bed capacity, the treatment purchase fund, the waiting lists initiative, cancer services, acute hospital services, the cardiovascular strategy—

Mr. Kenny

What about the 200,000 medical cards?

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

—renal and cardiac surgery, compensation payments to people infected with hepatitis C or HIV, services for older people, disability services, mental health services, adult homelessness and child care services plus an increase of €230 million in the GMS.

Mr. Rabbitte

Are the Government backbenchers too embarrassed to come into the House following the Book of Estimates? In respect of the Book of Estimates, which of the cuts embarrass the Taoiseach most? Is it the refusal to raise the eligibility for medical cards and keep his promise to give 200,000 additional people a medical card, his failure to agree the refurbishment programme for dilapidated and run down primary schools, the scrapping of 5,000 jobs on the community employment scheme, the abolition of 41% support for FÁS and a similar cut in the IDA Ireland budget, the postponement of Luas for 12 months, the fact that he has not provided one single cent for the 2,000 additional gardaí as promised in the programme for Government, the 1,000 jobs that are being lost in rural Ireland because of the cuts enforced on the forestry programme, the 63% cut in spending on race relations or the further cuts in the ODA programme which make the target of 0.7% by 2007 as committed by the Government simply unattainable? Is the Taoiseach embarrassed because his backbenchers are in revolt or is it because he has cut the first-time buyers' grant, shattering the dreams of thousands of young people all over the country who are trying to get a home of their own? Which of these cuts embarrass the Taoiseach most?

The Taoiseach

What worries me most is that the 600,000 jobs the Government has managed to create through its fiscal policies over recent years be maintained, that people still have a quality of life that would enable them to keep working and have disposable income so that they can continue to play a real part in this country and not go back to the situation we had before of 17% unemployment and high emigration. What would worry me most is if we were to do irresponsible things now—

Mr. Timmins

The Government did that in the past two years.

The Taoiseach

—we would not be able to return to the circumstances of high growth, where we have been able to build 50,000 new houses a year.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

We would have to move away from a position where we were building new houses in large numbers and go back to the 1977 position when only about 10 or 11 new houses a year were built. We would have to go back to a position where we are unable to spend adequate money on the health services—

Ms O. Mitchell

It is adequate now, is it?

The Taoiseach

I would not like to see a position where we could not afford to spend €8.9 billion on health, which is a 147% increase on 1997 or where we could not afford the large increases by the Department of Family and Social Affairs for those who are on the margins of society. We have been able to give them large increases of 70%. In education we are spending €5.6 billion.

It is a difficult year, we know that, and we have to try to make the necessary prudent policies so that we can work ourselves through it and be able to maintain economic growth and stability and, in the meantime, help those who need it most. That is what the Government will do.

Mr. Rabbitte

Rather than a recitation of the benefits of the growth which the Government did not create, what action does the Taoiseach propose to take for the thousands of people in rural Ireland who have no other means of employment and are being thrown out of work as a result of the Book of Estimates? What about the 5,000 people that the Tánaiste has thrown out of work and abandoned in the most vulnerable and exposed communities in the country? Then there is the people on very modest incomes who will not get a medical card.

Does the Taoiseach accept this is the exact opposite of what he promised during the recent general election? Does he accept that he and his Government lied to the people at the time of the general election, or is he saying that he is lying to them now, or that he does not know the difference?

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not appropriate to use the word "lie".

Mr. Allen

It is the truth.

The Taoiseach

I remind Deputy Rabbitte that afforestation has increased 251% in the past five years.

Mr. Stagg

It is next year we are talking about.

The Taoiseach

We will see the employment that will create in rural Ireland.

Mr. Coveney

What about the companies that have invested this year? More than 1,000 jobs will be lost.

Mr. McCormack

There are a great number of trees in north Dublin – the Taoiseach was up a few of them.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

The Taoiseach

In so far as there is an argument about what figures were used, Deputy Rabbitte will know that the figures for deficits that his party put in for 2003 and those that Fine Gael put in were almost precisely the same figures as we put in.

Mr. Kenny

Based on false figures given by the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

The Fine Gael plan was to spend more, tax more and save more so let us not—

Mr. Kenny

The Taoiseach never told us that the EU told him that he could not use central fund moneys.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

The Taoiseach

In reply to Deputy Rabbitte's question, we are endeavouring to manage in difficult circumstances not to spend ourselves into a position where we will create a long-term crisis.

Mr. McCormack

As the previous Government did before the election.

The Taoiseach

If we can manage until 2003, or maybe 2004 if necessary, to keep a prudent, tight fiscal position, we can keep much employment in this economy and spend the available resources in the areas of education, health and social, community and family affairs. That is our view.

Mr. Coveney

What if there is an election in the meantime?

Mr. Sargent

Does the Taoiseach stand over his claim that he does not favour opening up the Irish box to more Spanish and other non-Irish EU trawlers? He does not appear to understand that an oil spill, such as the one off the coast of Portugal as a result of which 21 million tonnes of oil is likely to spill and affect our coast as well as many other European coasts, would do far more damage to this country than any amount of trawlers in the Irish box.

Apart from the Estimates meltdown, which provides that coastal protection will be down 72% and even humanitarian flood relief will be decreased from €8.5 million to a mere €59,000, does the Taoiseach recognise that in a typical year there are 20 marine accidents in Irish waters? A report in the Department of the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources states that we urgently need to buy an emergency towing vessel to cope with the likelihood of such an oil spill. We need a GPS type marine safety information system and the designation of coasts off the west and the North as high risk areas from which such vessels should be kept. Is the Taoiseach prepared to give attention to our maritime environment in the light of this timely warning from the Prestige tanker which has foundered and is discharging oil? When will he respond to and act on the recommendations of the Irish emergency towing vessels study which is now more urgent than ever given the probability of damage to our shores even from an oil spill from as far away as Portugal?

The Taoiseach

As I said earlier during Question Time, we oppose the opening up of the Irish box because these waters are sensitive. They play an important part in nurturing stock levels in a wide area far beyond this country. Our fishing industry is critically dependent on the stocks in the Irish box and it has a key interest in their sustainability. If there was to be open access to the Irish box, that would run counter to the desire of the Commission to conserve fish stocks. Those are the reasons we oppose the opening up of the Irish box and we will continue to do so. The Deputy is aware that since Spain's accession to the EU in 1986 a key issue for Ireland has been how to protect our fishery zone in the context of the Spanish fishing fleet. It is the largest in the European Union. We have argued our position at the meeting I mentioned earlier and we will do so at the meeting on the Common Fisheries Policy next week.

With regard to the tanker accident off the coast of Spain, the EU Commission is co-ordinating and providing information on the accident. The latest news is that the tanker was hauled off the north coast of Spain. It is still unclear what caused the accident. The tanker did not hit rocks. The oil spill is estimated to be 5,000 tonnes which has affected about 20 miles of coastline. The tanker is currently being towed to deeper waters and efforts are being made to remove oil about hundred miles off the coast of Spain in 3,000 to 4,000 metres of water. Spain has called for international assistance and a number of European countries with specialised oil recovery vessels are providing such assistance. The coastguard here is monitoring the position. The tanker broke up this morning and sank. Reports suggest that little oil has been taken off it and the prevailing winds suggest that the oil will pollute Spanish and Portuguese coastlines. We cannot be sure what will happen and I appreciate there are concerns. Regrettably, the oil spill is a major problem for those two countries, but I hope it will not be a major problem for us. The oil in question is heavy oil. It floats below the surface, which is making it more difficult for the authorities monitoring and reporting the oil spill to clarify the position.

The other questions Deputy Sargent asked could be dealt with by way of parliamentary questions. I am aware of the difficulties and problems he raised about navigational issues. If he tables parliamentary questions on them to the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern will answer them.

Mr. Sargent

I asked the Taoiseach these questions because we now have visual proof of his interest in the marine from photographs taken in Drumcondra. I wanted to press the issue with him because given his interest in flooding it seems strange that according to the Estimates there will be a cut in humanitarian flood relief from €8.5 million to €59,000. Is he convinced that there will not be any further flooding? Has he managed to grapple with and conquer the problem of climate change and global warming? Is he able to say to our fishermen that there will not be any need for the 1999 report commissioned by the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources which states that we urgently need an emergency towing vessel? This need is too urgent to be deferred until the next time questions are tabled to the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources; it must be acted upon.

The Taoiseach

The tentative figure put in under this heading has been the same for the past five years. As the Deputy said, it is to provide for humanitarian relief. Every year when a crisis has arisen such as the regrettable incidents of flooding in Meath, Dublin, north Kildare and in some other parts of the country over the weekend, it must be dealt with. The scheme that was operated by the Red Cross under the Office of Public Works on the last occasion there was flooding will also operate on this occasion. I think this matter is the subject of a request under Standing Order 31, but if it is not, it will be dealt with in precisely the same way as the flooding that occurred in Gort, Clonmel and other locations.

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter is the subject of a Private Notice Question.

The Taoiseach

The resources that are necessary to provide for such relief are on the basis of humanitarian need and cannot be budgeted for. Such relief is not budgeted for, otherwise resources would lie there unused as happened some years ago. Regrettably such relief has been called for on two occasions this year – the flooding that occurred on 1 February and the flooding last weekend.