Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 10 Apr 2003

Vol. 565 No. 2

Order of Business.

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 13, motion re appointment of Ombudsman; No. 14, motion re appointment of Information Commissioner; No. 19, Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill 2003 [Seanad] – Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 2, Immigration Bill 2002 [Seanad] – Second Stage, to be taken not later than 1.30 p.m. and the order shall not resume thereafter.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 13 and 14 shall be debated together and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion consecutively after 40 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the speech of the Minister for Finance, the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (ii) Members may share time.

What does "and the order shall not resume thereafter" mean?

We do not go back to the Health Insurance (Amendment) Bill after the Immigration Bill at 1.30 p.m. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 13 and 14 agreed? Agreed.

Will the Tánaiste confirm that the House will get an opportunity to discuss Northern Ireland next week, preferably on Tuesday? I express the hope of everyone when I wish the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister well with their work and with the announcement to be made today. I give credit to every pro-Agreement leader in the past few years as they have all played a part in bringing us to this point. I express the sincere hope that the republican movement and other paramilitary groups will end all paramilitary activities after today so that the people of this island can go on to a new future and a new Ireland. We need only look at our televisions to see the devastation wrought by war in Iraq. We know there is no going back. We should take statements on Northern Ireland next week to enable us to express those sentiments. We on this side of the House support the efforts of the Government to bring a successful and peaceful conclusion to this 30-year saga. It has brought trauma and tragedy to thousands of people and wrecked local and national economies.

I join Deputy Kenny in asking the Tánaiste for an assurance that we will have the debate he seeks. I also extend my good wishes and those of the Labour Party to the Taoiseach in his endeavours in the hope that we are embarking on the last few weeks of what will be a momentous phase in our history.

I understand there is to be a debate on Northern Ireland next Tuesday. We look forward to it. I will be in Northern Ireland between now and then and hope to find the same sense of positive expectation as there is here. The Taoiseach has stated he feels this is the most important time since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement. I hope this turns out to be the case. Members of the Green Party, both south and north of the Border, hope he and all the other Government and party leaders involved will be able to fulfil and implement the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. We hope the current vacuum will now end. It cannot be allowed to continue as it is a recipe for violence.

The Government appreciates the comments and ongoing support of Fine Gael, the Labour Party and the Green Party as well as other parties in the House. On the issue of Northern Ireland there has been in recent years widespread support from all sides of the House for the efforts of successive Governments and a genuine bipartisan approach.

We hope this will be a momentous and historic weekend. That clearly depends on the response to the proposals of the two Governments. The hopes, good wishes and expectations of all Members and the general public, north and south, are with the talks which will take place today and over the weekend. Expectations are high, I hope they will not be disappointed. It is the intention of the Government to have a debate on Northern Ireland in the House next week. The Whip will, I am sure, be in touch with the Opposition parties on the matter over the weekend.

Is the Tánaiste in a position to tell us anything about the new code of conduct being introduced in the Fianna Fáil Party?

The matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Will it prevent Fianna Fáil Deputies going around at election time delivering letters making false promises?

Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Will that matter be covered by the code or will legislation be necessary to deal with Members such as Deputy O'Connor who has been going around my constituency delivering letters about schools on which he has no intention of delivering?

(Interruptions).

The Deputy is out of order.

Nothing short of legislation will stop him.

No legislation is planned.

It only applies when one is over 70 years of age.

Deputy O'Connor should not allow himself to be provoked.

Deputy Rabbitte is referring to the McGuinness and Noel O'Flynn conventions.

It is known as the "speak in favour, vote against" convention.

The Deputy means the Jim O'Keeffe convention.

In respect of Vote 25 – the Department of the Environment and Local Government – is the Tánaiste concerned about the report by the International Monetary Fund which indicates the housing market here could burst and prices could collapse? The analysis shows that house prices rose by 102% between—

The content of a possible debate on Vote 25 is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

I am entitled to refer to the Vote which deals with the—

The Deputy may raise questions when the Vote in question comes before the House, but may not discuss what he might like to say when it does.

When does the Tánaiste expect Vote 25 to be taken and debated in the House?

Is the Deputy referring to the Estimate for the Department of the Environment and Local Government?

The allocation for the Department in the Revised Estimate is €2.311 billion.

I call Deputy Sargent.

On promised legislation—

The Tánaiste wants to answer Deputy Kenny's question.

I cannot allow the Tánaiste to be out of order any more than the Deputy.

The issue will be debated in the next few weeks.

The House will not sit for several weeks.

On promised legislation I wish to raise an issue I tried to raise earlier, namely, the fact that climate change strategy is in tatters. The Government has turned its back on the Moneypoint—

The Deputy must ask a question appropriate to the Order of Business.

The transmission planning Bill is the only legislation of which I am aware which could have some bearing on the issue of climate change. The ESB has been allowed not to convert the Moneypoint power station to gas.

The Deputy has already tried to raise the matter under Standing Order 31. It is not permissible to raise it again on the Order of Business.

The conversion of the power station was a critical part of the climate change strategy.

The Deputy is being repetitive and is out of order.

How does the Government propose to address the climate change issue?

To which Bill did the Deputy's question refer?

The transmission planning Bill. I asked whether there is a climate change strategy Bill.

There is no such Bill. The issue does not require legislation.

The Deputy knows the strategy is well under way. The Deputy should stop blowing hot air.

The Minister for the Environment and Local Government does not know the difference between the ozone layer and greenhouse gases.

(Interruptions).

I ask the Minister and Deputy Gormley not to interrupt and to allow Deputy Stagg to ask a question appropriate to the Order of Business.

On promised legislation, given that the headline crimes of murder, rape, robbery and aggravated burglary increased in my constituency by 23% since 2001 and 37% since 1998—

To what legislation is the Deputy referring?

When will the Crimes Bill come before the House?

I ask the Tánaiste to reply.

I am not finished. According to the list we received last January, publication of the Bill was expected in January. I can read this myself so I do not need the Tánaiste to do it for me. In reply to a parliamentary question last January the Tánaiste stated: "It is not possible to indicate a publication date for the Crimes Bill at this stage." When can we expect the Bill? Has progress been made on the timing of its introduction since January?

It is still not possible to indicate when we will have the Bill.

Let the Tánaiste's reply that no progress has been made since January be placed on the record.

(Interruptions).

I also wish to express my concern for Fianna Fáil backbenchers.

Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Yes, as any Trotskyite could tell the House, one starts with a code of conduct and finishes up with Stalin.

(Interruptions).

I call Deputy Durkan.

I wish to ask the Tánaiste one brief question.

I will call the Deputy again.

Perhaps, a Cheann Comhairle, you will also call me twice to keep everything even. I have a query about legislation most likely to be of assistance to those who wish to acquire a home of their own in the foreseeable future. As legislation has been promised in this area, perhaps the Tánaiste could elucidate the House further on it.

To what Bill is the Deputy referring?

I refer to legislation on rented dwellings. The permanent resolution of the housing crisis is the issue which needs to be addressed. Perhaps the Tánaiste could give the House some up-to-date information on what is likely to happen in this area.

Legislation on the private rented sector will be ready by the end of the month.

Members asked several times this week and last week for time to be allocated for a proper and full debate on the Iraqi conflict. Question Time yesterday had been considered as an opportunity, but proved unsatisfactory in so far as we did not reach a number of the questions on Iraq.

The issue has already been discussed twice this week.

It was decided to hold a debate on the Iraqi conflict if circumstances changed. Most Members on all sides would agree a change has taken place. We should have the debate next week as the matter is urgent and we plan to go into recess for a couple of weeks thereafter. While I do not wish to dwell on the issue now, there is an obvious humanitarian need.

As of now, there is no plan to have a debate next week.

I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

On a point of order—

I will return to the Deputy once we have heard Deputy Joe Higgins on a matter appropriate to the Order of Business.

It is appropriate. Will the Government allocate time next week—

The question is not in order. Deputy Michael Higgins has already asked that question.

I want to join the Deputy in calling for a debate. We are in a new situation. I ask the Government to allocate time for a debate next week.

On a point of order, in case the Tánaiste has inadvertently misled the House, there was a tentative agreement at the Whips meeting last night, which I was not able to attend but on which I received a report, that time would be made available on Wednesday between 8.30 p.m. and 10.30 p.m. if the situation changed, which it has, for a debate on the Iraqi conflict.

I call Deputy Sherlock.

I intend to raise this matter later today. It is absolutely scandalous. People have not been fed—

That is a matter for the Whips. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. The Chair was generous in allowing him to raise the issue.

The Chair suggested this matter was affected by Question Time yesterday. Question Time did not provide answers that were—

I did not suggest anything yesterday about Question Time. The Chair did not intervene.

My memory is clear. The decision as to whether we would have a debate was affected by the fact that the Minister for Foreign Affairs was taking Question Time.

The Chair has no say whatsoever. The Chair will fall into line with what the House decides.

The Government is hopeless.

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. The issue has been dealt with. I called his colleague, Deputy Sherlock.

I will raise it another way.

The Taoiseach made clear yesterday that if there was a change we should come back to the issue after Question Time with the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

There is his humanitarian aid now. This is pure hypocrisy.

The Chair has no control over the answers to questions.

The suggestion being made by my colleagues is that there has been a change. There is a necessity to discuss this issue and we are merely asking the Tánaiste what is the position of the Government now.

I call Deputy Sherlock.

Sir, you—

The Tánaiste has answered the question. We are being repetitive

You are being entirely unreasonable, a Cheann Comhairle.

I do not accept that.

The Tánaiste is the head of Government this morning. The Taoiseach yesterday—

The Tánaiste was asked a question which the Chair was generous enough to allow because it should have been discussed by the Whips.

This is a new question.

The Chair ruled yesterday that only the party leaders were entitled to ask questions.

Deputy Stagg has put a new question to her. Is there a basis for that as a result of the Whips meeting last night?

Well, shame on the Government.

Given the increased crime rates among young people in towns, as opposed to cities, when will the enforcement of fines Bill be introduced to prevent people from being jailed for failure to pay fines, which happens frequently?

Work is at a preliminary stage and it is not possible at this stage to say when the legislation will be introduced.

The money in dormant accounts in various financial institutions would be useful in fulfilling the promise made on school buildings prior to the last general election.

A question on legislation.

We had an extensive debate on this issue over the past number of days and money is needed. When will the dormant funds Bill be introduced? Can it be treated with more urgency because it could be used to address the problems in schools?

We cannot discuss what might be in the Bill.

The Bill will be published later this year.

On a point of order, apropos the debate on the aftermath of the war, general agreement was reached at the Whips meeting. The arrangement was left rather fluid in that the time would be allocated on Tuesday or Wednesday.

This has been dealt with.

That needs to be confirmed, lest there be a change of mind on the part of the Government.

I understand from the Government Chief Whip that the Opposition requested a debate but there was no agreement to have such a debate.

There was no disagreement. The understanding is quite clear. It was agreed that if it was necessary, the House would sit until 10 p.m. on the subsequent night.

We cannot have a debate on the matter.

On a point of order, my under standing was clear that there would be a debate on Iraq at 8.30 p.m. on Wednesday.

The Tánaiste has replied. We must move on.

It was agreed there would be consultation with the Minister and we would have a debate.

That is true.

What value has a commitment of the Taoiseach to the House? The Taoiseach gave us a firm commitment yesterday that there would be a debate next week if the situation changed.

That matter has been dealt with.

I refer to the preponderance of criminal activity around the country, which has been raised by one of my colleagues, and the need for more effective policing in local communities.

A question on legislation.

I am about to reach the question.

It would be useful if the Deputy reached it. We do not want repetition every morning of the week. Members complain that there is not sufficient time to discuss legislation but if the same questions are repeated every morning with a preamble, no business will be conducted.

The Deputy is asking the Government to do something about crime.

If the Deputy has a question on legislation—

Let the Deputy explain what he means.

This question has not been asked for quite some time. I am 16 years in the House and it was always possible on the Order of Business to raise—

The Order of Business lasted 20 minutes and that was the end of it.

No, Sir. I have been in the House when the Order of Business has lasted three hours with disruptions and so on.

The Ceann Comhairle was also here.

The Chair can have adjournments and everything else if that is the attitude.

The Deputy should ask a question on legislation.

The questions would be answered if the Chair allowed Members to put them. I referred to the frustration in communities about policing. We need an opportunity to debate policy. When will the Garda inspection and complaints Bill be published?

The Bill will be published later this year.

I do not know if the Tánaiste received a detailed report on the moving meeting held in the Mansion House by up to 1,000 people representing families that have a disabled child or adult and their concern about the promises the Government made to bring in a rights-based disability Bill.

Has the Deputy a question on legislation?

I am getting to it.

I am moving on if the Deputy does not want to ask about legislation.

A Cheann Comhairle, some of your colleagues were at the meeting and you should have heard the parents' stories.

The Chair, unfortunately, does not have colleagues. Everybody is a colleague in the House.

When will the disability Bill be introduced? It is listed.

I received a first hand report from the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Tim O'Malley, who attended the meeting. Both Bills will be published before the summer.

Given the insurance burden on small family funeral undertakers, when will the coroner's (amendment) Bill be introduced so that we can discuss the crisis?

Later this year.

Recognising the Minister for Finance's success in pushing women out of the home and into the workplace and, equally, that women are more inclined to become more involved in society in all its aspects, when will the parental leave Bill be introduced?

The Minister for Finance and the Government want to give women a choice to participate in the workforce and I am delighted that we have one of the highest participation rates in Europe. Women are no longer chained to the kitchen sink. The Bill will be introduced this year.

The Tánaiste should deal only with the question that was appropriate to the Order of Business.

The lack of provision of support services such as child care does not give them a choice.

Government Deputies in Cork are paralysed with regard to the school of music, which has reached crisis point, given that Cork will be the European City of Culture in 2005. It will be a national embarrassment if the school does not go ahead.

A question on legislation.

The Higher Education Authority Bill might help to sort out this issue.

I understand the Bill will be published later this year.

That will be too late. This is a national embarrassment with thousands of students being discommoded.

I am delighted to hear from the Tánaiste that the housing (private rented sector) Bill, about which I have been asking for the past three years, will finally be published before the end of the month. In which House will be the Bill introduced?

No decision has yet been made on that matter.

I ask that it be introduced in this House since virtually all environment legislation during the lifetime of the Government has been introduced in the Upper House, for some reason that I cannot fathom.

One can bet one's life there is a reason.

They are more effective and efficient in the Upper House.

They are a pushover.

I refer to the legislative programme following the Easter recess. I thought we had a commitment from the Chief Whip that the Opposition parties could indicate the most urgent legislation we considered should be brought forward. I thought I had an indication of that. However, was it the same kind of promise as that regarding a debate on Iraq – that the issue would be run past the Minister for Foreign Affairs and we have a debate.

I call Deputy Gormley.

I want to establish if these meetings have any meaning or if we are just wasting our time and being smooth talked.

The Deputy will have to find another way to raise the matter. I call Deputy Gormley.

Over the last three years I have asked about the control of roadworks Bill, which has been postponed at all stages. I hope the Tánaiste realises this is urgent legislation because of the chaos regarding roadworks

The Bill is expected to be published next year.

I wish to refer to legislation under the heading, "Bills in respect of which heads have yet to be approved by Government." The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has 31 Bills under that heading. Four further Bills are tentatively before the House.

The number of Bills is rising almost in line with the crime rate.

Almost – it is palpable at this stage. What time span is envisaged for the introduction of that legislation, given the serious concerns in this country regarding crime at present?

As Deputies are aware, there is a large volume of legislation promised by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and there are different time scales for different Bills.

We now move on to Nos. 13 and 14, motions re appointment of Ombudsman and Information Commissioner.

Barr
Roinn