It is proposed to take No. 11, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Employment Equality Act 1998 (section 12) (Church of Ireland College of Education) Order 2003; and No. 1, the Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland) Bill 2002 [Seanad] – Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 11 shall be decided without debate. Private Members' business shall be No. 33, motion re disadvantaged communities.
Order of Business.
There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 11, without debate, agreed to?
I would like to propose an amendment to the sitting time of the Dáil.
This proposal deals with a referral to a joint committee.
I wish to make a point about that. I have not received any information on this proposal. There has been a number of such proposals in recent months. No information has been given in advance of referring this matter to the committee, so we do not know what is the proposal. It is unfair to do business in this way.
I propose an amendment to the effect that the Dáil should sit until 10 p.m. in view of the crisis in education and the spilt in the Cabinet on the issue of third level fees.
There is no proposal on sitting time before the House.
We should have statements and an opportunity for clarity on this matter which is of grave concern to thousands of students.
Is Deputy Kenny opposing No. 11? The only item he can oppose is No. 11 as there is no other proposal before the House.
No. 11 relates to section 12 of the Employment Equality Act. The Church of Ireland wanted to keep part of the quota in the Church of Ireland College of Education for members of its own church. I do not think it is an issue to which Members would object. This is an important issue for the Church of Ireland, that is, to retain a small quota for its own members. I do not think we need to divide on that issue, whatever about any other one.
I am sure the Taoiseach wishes to run business efficiently in the House. I suggest to him that in respect of items such as this being referred to committees, perhaps the Government Whip might inform Opposition Whips of what are the proposals in order that we would be aware of them in advance. I do not want to cause ructions but Government time should be made available for a clear discussion on the issue of third level fees in view of the crisis—
Sorry, Deputy, we are dealing with No. 11.
—and the spilt in the Cabinet. I do not want to cause a division on this issue, Sir, but I want confirmation from the Taoiseach that Government time will be made available to discuss the issue of third level fees.
Deputy, there are other ways of raising that matter. You cannot raise it at this stage.
The Ceann Comhairle ruled out of order a private notice question.
The Taoiseach arranged the business and any business which needs to be put to a proposal before the House—
On a point of order—
A point of order.
Deputy Kenny raised the question of extending the sitting time of the House.
That is not a point of order, Deputy.
Hold on.
The Chair has ruled. Is the Deputy pressing the question?
How else can Deputy Kenny raise that issue?
Sorry, is Deputy Kenny pressing the question?
The Ceann Comhairle ruled out a private notice question on this matter. The Tánaiste in Brussels—
Sorry, we are discussing the proposal on No. 11.
The Tánaiste said the Cabinet was not briefed on this matter.
Does the Deputy agree to the proposal?
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform disagrees with the Minister for Education and Science. Thousands of students face an uncertain future.
Deputy Kenny, do you agree to this proposal?
All I want is for the Taoiseach to allocate Government time for a discussion on third level fees. I do not want to vote on the Church of Ireland issue but I want confirmation from the Taoiseach that Government time will be provided to discuss third level fees.
That does not arise at this time. It may arise-—
The Ceann Comhairle refused a private notice question on this matter.
On the proposal before the House, Deputy—
Does the Taoiseach not understand that this is of the gravest concern to thousands of students and parents?
Does the Deputy oppose the proposal?
I do not want to call a vote on the issue of the Church of Ireland.
Then the proposal on No. 11 is agreed to.
Can I get confirmation from the Taoiseach that we will have a discussion on third level fees during Government time?
I must put the question.
Question, "That the proposal to deal with item No. 11 be agreed to", put and declared carried.
On a point of order, a precedent was set in this House some time ago when a Member of the Opposition asked if there could be an extension of the sitting hours on that day. The Taoiseach agreed to an extension of the sitting for that day. The precedent has already been set.
Deputy, that does not arise out of a proposal—
It will never arise unless the Ceann Comhairle allows it to. Deputy Kenny has sought an extension to the sitting hours for today. The Taoiseach wants to answer the question.
I will allow the Taoiseach to answer the question but it did not arise on the business the House was discussing which was the proposal to deal with an item of business.
It arises now.
It did not arise under the business.
It arises now.
Deputy Kenny stated we did not give information on this issue. I understood we gave it last week but I do not want to get into an argument about it. On the other matter, when I agreed to the time change last week, I agreed to it on the basis of a time motion where there was a guillotine. I was asked by Deputy Gilmore if I would extend the time. That is entirely different to what I have been asked today. When there is a decision on the matter, I will have no problem with a debate.
Does the Taoiseach anticipate any resignations from his Cabinet on the reintroduction of the issue of the third level fees or is it unthinkable that Ministers would behave honourably? They cannot both win. What are the focus groups saying about it?
Is the legislation on curbing alcohol advertising, proposed at the weekend, at an advanced stage of preparation? When will it be brought before the Dáil? Will the Taoiseach be imposing a pub-opening purdah on himself pending this legislation?
The first question is in order.
Since there is hardly a pub without a plaque proclaiming that the Taoiseach opened it, thus making him a significant advertiser for the alcohol industry, it would be interesting if he proclaimed that he will now desist from this—
The first question is in order, but the Deputy will have to find another way of raising the second issue.
The legislation is being drafted and the heads of the Bill will be ready shortly. I will be very glad to bring Deputy Joe Higgins to a pub and buy him a pint. I gather he is not too good at buying them himself.
I call Deputy Olivia Mitchell.
(Interruptions).
Since I live on an average worker's wage I will have a pint, but if I was living on €200,000 per year, like the Taoiseach, I would buy drink for everybody.
I am not sure if the Taoiseach has heard today's news about the cutting of 163 whole-time jobs in the Mater Hospital. If he has heard it he will know it is far more serious—
That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
—and has far more long-term consequences than the mere closure of wards. It amounts to a dismantling of the health service in the longer term. Will the Taoiseach consider revising the Estimate for the Department of Health and Children, Vote 33, to retain those jobs?
The content of the Estimate cannot be discussed now.
Will the Taoiseach agree that there is a crisis in the health service?
On the same issue, will the Taoiseach ensure that there is a Supplementary Estimate to deal with the crisis in the Dublin teaching hospitals in particular? Is he aware—
The Supplementary Estimate—
—that this is only the first of a number of announcements of job cutbacks?
No Supplementary Estimate is promised.
This will impact directly on patient care.
I call Deputy Michael Higgins.
Surely the Taoiseach is familiar with the Mater Hospital—
Sorry, Deputy, we cannot have a debate on the issue.
—and the requirements of that hospital to deliver to the constituents he represents. Surely he has something to say about this.
Allow Deputy Michael Higgins to speak, please.
One hundred and sixty-three people have been laid off in a hospital that serves the Taoiseach's constituents.
Deputy McManus, I ask you to allow your colleague, Deputy Michael Higgins, to speak.
They are not part-time jobs, they are full-time jobs.
Will the Taoiseach state when the legislation to amend the Defence Act 1954 will be introduced to the House, as announced by the Minister for Defence in the past few days. It will facilitate non-UN-mandated military action by Irish forces. Has that legislation been discussed by the Cabinet and has it the support of the Cabinet?
There is no amendment proposed to the Defence Act 1954 at this stage.
Can I take it that there is no basis whatsoever to the announcement made in Brussels by the Minister for Defence?
I suggest that the Deputy table a question on the matter.
To the Taoiseach?
To the appropriate Minister.
That is the kind of academic—
To an appropriate member of Government.
Is it just another rush of blood to the head of the Minister for Defence?
The Deputy has made his point.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach about promised legislation given that 40% of crashes are associated with alcohol consumption. It is not a joking matter. With reference to the Intoxicating Liquor Act, will he tell his friends that he will not be opening any more pubs given the seriousness—
That does not arise.
He can do it himself and he does not have to preach to anybody else about it.
I call Deputy Enright.
He can decide that himself. It is in his gift to—
The Deputy is out of order and he knows it.
—open pubs. I asked when the Intoxicating Liquor Act will be dealt with and want an answer to my basic points.
Next year.
Next year, Deputy. I call Deputy Enright.
The Taoiseach is pushing drugs as well.
As we do not know if fees will be introduced, for whom they will be introduced and the impact this will have on the Department—
Deputy Sargent's remark is disgraceful.
I think we have all agreed that alcohol is a drug, and to advertise it through opening pubs—
That is a disgraceful remark.
—is to promote it.
I ask the Deputy to withdraw the remark.
I will change the word "push" to "promote".
I ask the Deputy to withdraw it.
What is incorrect about saying that the Taoiseach is promoting the consumption of a drug when he is opening pubs?
They were not the words the Deputy used.
They are not the words the Deputy used. He should withdraw the word "push".
I withdraw "push" and substitute it with "promote".
I will start again. We do not know if third level fees will be introduced, for whom they will be introduced and the impact this will have on the Department's budget. We do not know where the Government stands and whether the Progressive Democrats, who oppose the fees, will oppose loans and whether they will oppose increases in registration fees.
The Deputy should ask a question on legislation.
I have a question on the Order Paper. Will this have an impact on the Estimates as agreed by the Select Committee on Education and Science and will a Supplementary Estimate be required?
We cannot discuss the content of the Estimate.
The Taoiseach can answer the question.
The Taoiseach would be out of order if he answered the question.
The Deputy asked about a Supplementary Estimate.
On secondary legislation, has the Government determined to amend the Groceries Order and, if so, when will it be before the House?
There is no proposal to amend the Groceries Order.
What about what spin doctors are saying?
The contraction of services to expectant mothers was highlighted this afternoon. When will the Maternity Protection (Amendment) Bill 2003 come before the House?
The Maternity Protection (Amendment) Bill 2003 has been published and is on the Order Paper of the Seanad. It is a matter for the other House—
When will it come before this House?
As soon as it is dealt with in the Seanad.
Recently, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform announced a reserve force of gardaí. Last Thursday, he was unable to say in the House whether secondary legislation would be required in respect of the role and responsibility of the force to be appointed. Will the Taoiseach state if secondary legislation is required? Has the matter been discussed by Cabinet? Has a definition of the responsibilities of the reserve force been established and when can we expect to see it in operation?
The Minister has answered questions in the House and outlined his proposals. There is a legal opinion required as to whether legislation is necessary. As the Minister announced last week, the results of the review taking place have not been announced. I do not think legislation is required but the Minister has to wait for clearance. That would be part of whatever proposal he makes.
Will the Taoiseach state whether there are plans for the Planning Act to be amended to allow for increased retail—
On promised legislation.
Secondary legislation.
Square footage.
On which issue?
The planning regulations to allow increased—
There are no proposals or secondary proposals.
An entire file has been made available on this issue in the past week.
We cannot discuss the issue on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Boyle.
May I ask the Taoiseach if there is not—
Questions must be appropriate.
It is very much appropriate.
You have asked a question and the Taoiseach has answered it.
Why are the spin doctors saying there will be changes?
Has the Deputy another question on legislation?
If retail superstores—
We cannot have a debate on it.
I wonder whether we will continue to have government by headline.
The Deputy knows she is out of order.
From where exactly are these stories coming?
Will the local government (rates) Bill come before the House and be processed in time for the last set of estimates to be done by local authorities before next year's local elections, to which the Taoiseach is looking forward?
The local government (rates) Bill seeks to standardise, modernise, streamline and consolidate the rating law. The heads of the Bill are expected within the next two weeks and the legislation will then go for drafting. Hopefully, it will be ready and passed this year.
Will the Taoiseach bring forward for early debate legislation on the pink list, in view of the alarming finding that only 267 houses are in the affordable category in the Dublin, Meath, Wicklow and Kildare area? That represents less than 1.5% of houses falling into the affordable category.
Hear, hear.
The Deputy must ask a question on legislation.
Can the residential tenancy Bill, which is forcing people who would like to buy a home of their own into the rental sector, be brought forward for urgent debate?
The legislation will hopefully be published in the next week or so.
In view of a report today in one of the national newspapers that it will take €740 million to provide the necessary infrastructure to provide a stadium at Abbotstown, will the Taoiseach now abandon the Abbotstown sports centre authority Bill, given the cost involved?
The legislation is being drafted and will come before the House.
Is the Taoiseach wasting parliamentary time?
The Deputy knows that the legislation must cover the aquatic centre regardless of any other section.
I welcome the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to the House. In view of her statement that the rich should pay tax, does the Taoiseach have any proposals to introduce special legislation to reduce tax avoidance, particularly among the many wealthy Irish people moving funds offshore to Switzerland and to Swiss banks?
Has the Deputy a question on legislation?
Their agents are in town at the moment.
These matters come up in the Finance Act every year.
The Taoiseach should ask the Minister to come down.
She said the rich should pay taxes.
The Minister is behind the Taoiseach.
When will the drug offenders Bill come before the House? Will it include a provision for the ring-fencing of the €16 million currently held by CAB which was taken from drug barons, in order that the money can be used for communities most affected by the drug barons?
The first part of the question is in order but the content of the Bill cannot be discussed.
Work is at a preliminary stage on the drug offenders Bill. It will cover the drug dealers and the penalties for those involved in the supply of drugs. I do not have a date because the Bill is at an early stage.
Last Thursday morning the Tánaiste dodged the Order of Business and scurried out of the House after introducing the Redundancy Payments Bill. She had accused me a week earlier of telling an untruth to the House in the matter of the promise she made to the Comerama workers in Castlecomer. Can I invite the Tánaiste to come on down and deal with this?
If the price is right.
Has the Government any intention of doing anything for the Comerama workers to whom the Minister made the promise, as was borne out by the other Deputies who attended the meeting?
The Deputy should address the question to the appropriate Minister. I call Deputy Stanton.
A Cheann Comhairle, the point is that the Tánaiste accused me of telling an untruth. The other Deputies who attended the meeting—
The Deputy has just accused the Tánaiste of telling an untruth. I call Deputy Stanton.
Deputy Rabbitte is not George Washington.
I want to make the point that the other Deputies bore out what I said and they attended the meeting. Will the Tánaiste take the opportunity to put the record straight?
The Deputy will have to find another way of raising the issue. It is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
It is perfectly in order.
Will the Tánaiste correct the record and, in the process, say what she will do for the Comerama workers?
I suggest the Deputy submit a question on this to the appropriate Minister.
Does the Tánaiste intend to be reunited with the Taoiseach?
The matter does not arise at this stage. I call Deputy Stanton.
I have a brief question.
The Tánaiste is nursing the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who is very hurt. He almost burst into tears on Questions and Answers last night.
Would Deputy Higgins allow Deputy Stanton to ask his question without interruption please? He is entitled to make his contribution without interruption.
It would be some sight to see the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform crying. Is it the intention of the Government to pass all stages of the Protection of the Environment Bill in this session?
Yes, it is hoped to do so.
I call Deputy Connaughton.
A Cheann Comhairle, you have forgotten me again.
Why is the Minister for Agriculture and Food not centrally involved in trying to settle his Department's dispute at the five DVO offices around the country? If he will not do it, will the Taoiseach try to do it?
The Deputy must refer to legislation. I call Deputy Crowe.
I did.
No, no. The Taoiseach got a name for that kind of thing. He has an answer to everyone's problem when no one has a problem.
Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Is the Taoiseach aware of the hardship this is causing? The Minister for Social and Family Affairs may smile, but if it was in Donegal it would be a different matter.
The Deputy will have to find another way of raising the question. I call Deputy Crowe.
In view of the loss of 201 jobs in Gallagher's factory in Tallaght and the disastrous effect this will have on unemployment in the area, the second largest jobs black spot in Dublin—
Has the Deputy a question on legislation? I call Deputy Ring.
In view of the disastrous effect this will have on industrial relations, when will the industrial relations (amendment) Bill come before the House?
I would like to ask—
Deputy Ring is not there yet.
The draft heads of the industrial relations (amendment) Bill 2003 are expected within the next two weeks.
We now move on to No. 20.
What about Deputy Ring?
I forgot him again.
A Cheann Comhairle, you have an awful set on me. You do not see me morning, noon or night.
Keep the good wine until last.
The next night the Taoiseach visits Fagan's Bar he might walk from O'Connell Street to the bar to see the violence on the streets of Dublin. Last week, two tourists came into this town and were attacked.
The matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business. Has the Deputy a question on legislation?
What is being done in terms of legislation about this serious situation? Has the Taoiseach walked the streets of Dublin recently?
Hear, hear.
He is afraid to walk them.
I call Deputy Tom Hayes.
He drives to Croke Park and to Lansdowne Road. Has he walked through the city of Dublin recently?
I ask the Deputy to restrain himself.
The last time the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was on the streets of the city was last year when he was up a pole on O'Connell Street putting up his posters for Independent Newspapers.
The Taoiseach wants to answer.
On the land Bill, in view of the impact the Fischler proposals will have on the farming community and business people, suppliers and everybody in rural Ireland associated with it—
Has the Deputy a question on legislation?
Will this Government assess the impact the proposals will have in the context of the land Bill 2003?
The Bill will be published next year.
I and several other Members have received repeated correspondence, e-mails and letters inquiring how unauthorised development is allowed to take place on a very large scale throughout the country.
Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?
I have a question if the Ceann Comhairle will let me finish.
What legislation?
I will tell you, Sir, when I finish my question. These are not minor deviations from planning permissions but are developments without any approval whatsoever.
The Deputy is making a statement. There can be no preambles on the Order of Business.
Architects, planning consultants and local authorities are seeking the publication of the building control Bill. What is holding it up and why is it being held up?
The Bill will be published later this year.
Next week.
Later this year.
Allow the Taoiseach to answer.
He is only giving me monosyllables.