Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Jun 2003

Vol. 569 No. 4

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be No. 12a, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a proposal for a Council regulation to amend the Sirene manual; No. 13, motion re Revised Estimates for Public Services 2003 – Votes 1 to 43, back from committee; No. 20, statements on European Council, Thessaloniki No. 2, Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003 [Seanad] – Second Stage (resumed); No. 14, motion re Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998; No. 21, Digital Hub Development Agency Bill 2002 [Seanad] – Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 22, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Bill 2002 – Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m.; Nos. 12a and 13 shall be decided without debate and, in the case of No. 13, Votes 1 to 43 shall be moved together and shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; the proceedings on No. 20 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes, and the statements of the Taoiseach and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; Members may share time; immediately following the statements, the Minister for Foreign Affairs shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes; the proceedings on the resumed Second Stage of No. 2 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 5.50 p.m.; the proceedings on No. 14 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 70 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the speech of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; Members may share time; the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; the proceedings on the Report and Final Stages of No. 21 shall be taken today and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources; the proceedings on the resumed Report and Final Stages of No. 22 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; pursuant to Standing Order 80(3), the Dáil shall waive its instruction that not more than two select committees shall meet to consider a Bill on any given day in the case of the proposed meeting of the Select Committee on the Environment and Local Government to consider the Protection of the Environment Bill 2003 [Seanad] today; Private Members' business shall be No. 8 – Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2003 – Second Stage (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are eight proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 12a and 13 without debate agreed?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

It is not agreed.

Mr. Kenny

No. 12a refers to the Schengen information system and I understand it has only been put on the Order Paper this morning. Why are we not in a position to implement this before the end of 2004-05? I am opposed to the taking of the public services Estimates in this way for a variety of reasons.

Mr. Stagg

The practice of lumping unrelated matters together and putting them to the House as one vote is being followed again this morning. There is no relationship whatever between Nos. 12a and 13, yet we are being asked to vote on them together. I ask that this practice cease. We can have eight votes this morning if the Government wants; if it is a device to prevent votes it is not working.

On No. 12a, we received an assurance from the Taoiseach previously that the practice of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform – that seemingly holds this House in some degree of contempt – offering serious motions like this with constitutional implications for passage at the 12th hour would cease. The Department signed off on this on 16 May and there is no good reason why it did not bring this to the House before this date. I ask the Taoiseach to again give an assurance that he will reign in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and ensure it complies with the normal rules of the House.

Mr. Sargent

No. 13 deals with the Revised Estimates coming back from committee and con tains a number of issues that need to be more fully debated. These are areas in which there are cutbacks and the public needs to know what this House will do and how it will respond to issues of expenditure. I ask that it not just be voted through without debate.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I also object to the linking of these items, they could not be more diverse.

An Ceann Comhairle

The linking of items has been a long-standing practice in the House.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The linking of matters that are poles apart is unacceptable. The argument has been well put. Members may wish to support one item but not another and are forced into making a judgment call.

Regarding No. 12a, the connection between the Sirene manual and the Schengen information system, part of the apparatus of fortress Europe, clearly has civil liberties implications yet we have insufficient information to make a judgment call as to whether this should proceed without debate. It clearly should not. We do not know what is actually proposed or what amendments to the manual are being proposed. Nor do we know of the implications in terms of the Schengen information system or what supplementary information on EU citizens and non-EU citizens will be required. I strongly oppose 12a and oppose in principle the linking of such diverse matters into a single proposition.

The Taoiseach

While I have heard what Members have said about linking matters, the proposal was only that they would be taken without debate. The motion on the Sirene manual only asks that it be referred to committee for discussion. It will come back from the committee to the House and, if it is approved, it can be discussed and people will get more information about it.

I note the points made by Deputy Stagg about more notice being given on these issues.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 12a and 13 be agreed to.”

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Niall.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Seamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.

Cassidy, Donie.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Cullen, Martin.Curran, John.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank. Fitzpatrick, Dermot.

Tá–continued

Fleming, Seán.Fox, Mildred.Glennon, Jim.Grealish, Noel.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M. J.

Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Donovan, Denis.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Malley, Fiona.O'Malley, Tim.Parlon, Tom.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.Boyle, Dan.Breen, Pat.Broughan, Thomas P.Bruton, Richard.Burton, Joan.Connaughton, Paul.Connolly, Paudge.Costello, Joe.Crawford, Seymour.Cuffe, Ciarán.Deasy, John.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J.English, Damien.Enright, Olwyn.Ferris, Martin.Gilmore, Eamon.Gogarty, Paul.Gormley, John.Harkin, Marian.Healy, Seamus.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Phil.Kehoe, Paul.

Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Padraic.McGrath, Finian.Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20, statements on the European Council, agreed to?

Mr. Gormley

Last week I asked the Taoiseach for a full Dáil debate on the new EU constitution. Many Parliaments throughout the EU have already had such a debate. The proposal to hold an 80 minute debate on the recent European Council summit is insufficient, especially as the EU constitution was discussed there. We will have a total of five minutes to contribute to the debate, which is inadequate. I suggest, therefore, that the time allocation to the debate be extended so that the House can properly debate the EU constitution.

It is important to hold such a debate before the Intergovernmental Conference because the Taoiseach needs to get the message that if the constitution is accepted, Article 40.3 will result in higher military spending, which is totally unacceptable. The Taoiseach cannot pretend to be opposed to Sellafield and accept the EURATOM Treaty as part of the constitution. That is why we need more time for debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can raise that matter during the debate if he wishes.

The Taoiseach

I am in favour of a debate on this issue. Those who served on the presidium and on the European Convention should have the opportunity to participate. I indicated last week that we would hold a longer debate before the Intergovernmental Conference, and we will do that. The Intergovernmental Conference will not start until the end of October.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 2, conclusion of Second Stage of the Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003, agreed?

Mr. Stagg

The Order of Business proposes five guillotines, of which we object to four as the Bills have not taken their normal course. Rather than call four separate votes, I will, with your indulgence, Sir, deal with the four together. We asked for additional time with regard to No. 22, resumption of Report Stage of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Bill 2002, to which the Government agreed, so that there would be a high degree of consensus on the Bill, yet only 30 minutes additional time has been granted. We object to the principle of having Bills guillotined without full debate and we will, therefore, oppose this proposal.

Mr. Sargent

The proposal to deal with No. 2 requires far more time than that allocated and we therefore oppose it. There is also uncertainty about the conclusion of the debate. For example, if the holding of votes encroaches on the time allocated to following debates, will the time allocated to the various affected debates, such as, for example, on Private Members' Business, be extended?

An Ceann Comhairle

Under Standing Orders, a vote called at 7 p.m. takes from Private Members' time.

Mr. Sargent

If that is the case, Private Members' Business will need to be extended.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I object to the proposal to guillotine the Second Stage debate of the Intoxicating Liquor Bill. It is being rushed to committee tomorrow and the deadline for the receipt of amendments is midnight tonight. The committee that will deal with the Bill is currently in session dealing with other legislation and will continue its deliberations at 7 p.m. Yet, it is expected that the same committee members will be central to the preparation of amendments to the Bill before midnight, and they will be required to discuss it tomorrow. This is absurd and it is being done to feed the agenda of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in terms of his PR exercise on this legislation. It is an outrage and we will oppose it. It is not the way to treat Members, nor legislation.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 2 be agreed to."

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Niall.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Seamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Cullen, Martin.Curran, John.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Fleming, Seán.Fox, Mildred.Glennon, Jim.Grealish, Noel.

Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M. J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Donovan, Denis.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Malley, Fiona.O'Malley, Tim.Parlon, Tom. Power, Peter.

Tá–continued

Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.

Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.Boyle, Dan.Breen, Pat.Broughan, Thomas P.Bruton, Richard.Connaughton, Paul.Connolly, Paudge.Costello, Joe.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Cuffe, Ciarán.Deasy, John.Durkan, Bernard J.English, Damien.Enright, Olwyn.Ferris, Martin.Gilmore, Eamon.Gogarty, Paul.Gormley, John.Harkin, Marian.Healy, Seamus.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Phil.Kehoe, Paul.Kenny, Enda.McGrath, Finian.

McHugh, Paddy.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The board shows 55 opposed but the Ceann Comhairle announced a figure of 54. Will he check the returns as there seems to be a discrepancy?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has already checked and the division has been signed by the four tellers.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

It certainly says 55.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 14, motion re Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 21, conclusion of Report and Final Stages of the Digital Hub Development Agency Bill 2002, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 22, conclusion of Report and Final Stages of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Bill 2002, agreed to? Agreed. Is No. 8, the proposal to allow for more than two select committees to meet today, agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Timmins

In view of the fact that a small minority in the media have no interest in truth or fairness while most, although not all, of their colleagues choose to ignore this, can the Taoiseach confirm that he has no intention of loosening the libel laws as long as this culture obtains despite the appearance of a draft defamation Bill on the website of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised?

Mr. Timmins

A defamation Act appears on the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform website. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is in the Chamber and may be able to confirm this for the Taoiseach. I call on the Taoiseach not to loosen the libel laws while such a culture exists.

The Taoiseach

The defamation Bill contains 37 heads. The Government approved the publication of the report of the advisory group on defamation on 17 June and it is being discussed.

Mr. Rabbitte

I draw the Taoiseach's attention to the report in this morning's Irish Independent in which the abolition of the means test for carers was announced. I welcome the announcement made by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Callely, yesterday. When will the legislation to make the necessary provisions be brought forward?

The Taoiseach

There is no legislation.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister of State, Deputy Callely, has said the heavily restrictive means test for carer's allowance will be abolished.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach has answered the Deputy's question.

Mr. Rabbitte

Unless the Minister of State was trying to do a Donogh O'Malley on this, there is no basis for what he says.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy Rabbitte to allow Deputy Joe Higgins to contribute.

Mr. Rabbitte

This is an important issue. A Minister of State announced yesterday at Citywest—

Mr. Neville

I was there.

An Ceann Comhairle

Of course the issue is important. I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the appropriate Minister. I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Opposition has rights.

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, they are laid down in Standing Orders.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister announced yesterday the abolition of the means test.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on the matter.

Mr. Rabbitte

I do not want a debate.

Ms Burton

This is promised legislation.

Mr. S. Ryan

It was promised yesterday.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte submitted a question to the Taoiseach who answered that there was no promised legislation. That is the end of the matter on the Order of Business. There are other ways the Deputy can raise it. He can submit a parliamentary question or he can raise it on the Adjournment.

Mr. Kenny

We have just dealt with a motion on the Schengen information system which is to go back to committee. A Minister of State promised legislation in person yesterday in the presence of Members of this House.

Mr. S. Ryan

There were 800 delegates at the meeting.

Mr. Neville

I was present.

An Ceann Comhairle

I suggest the Deputy submits a question on the matter.

Mr. Coveney

It is in order to raise the matter here if legislation has been promised.

The Taoiseach

I was not at the conference yesterday. I understand the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Callely, outlined progress and developments being made by his Department and the Department of Social and Family Affairs. A question should be put down. I am answering on legislation which has been listed. This is not listed. I understand—

Mr. Stagg

On a point of order, Standing Orders require the Taoiseach to answer questions on legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach has answered the question. If the Deputy is not satisfied with the answer, there are other ways to raise the matter.

Mr. Stagg

I ask the Ceann Comhairle to allow me to make my point of order. Standing Orders require the Taoiseach to answer questions on promised legislation, whether the promise is made inside or outside the House. Questions do not have to be confined to the circulated list, which is now months old. Therefore, the promise of legislation yesterday by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Callely, is relevant.

Mr. J. Higgins

The Taoiseach told me a few weeks ago that the Government had no plans to amend before the end of the session the Air Navigation and Transport (Amendment) Act 1998 and the Aviation Regulation Act 2001. However, in today's Irish Independent, the Minister for Transport—

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a question on promised legislation? Perhaps, if he hears the Taoiseach on the promised legislation. I call the Taoiseach.

Mr. J. Higgins

Honestly, Ceann Comhairle. It takes only a minute. I am dealing with the same—

Mr. Quinn

Unfortunately, Ceann Comhairle, you will pay for that. It is very frustrating.

Mr. J. Higgins

I am dealing with the Minister's statement that he intends to proceed with a private terminal at Dublin Airport and that the builders would be on site by the end of the year.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is this a question on promised legislation?

Mr. J. Higgins

Yes, it is.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to answer it.

Mr. J. Higgins

Allow me to clarify my point. The Minister says he is to reconvene the Mullarkey commission, which is precisely the com mission that said the two Acts I mentioned would have to be amended to permit the construction of a private terminal.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should allow the Taoiseach to answer his question.

Mr. J. Higgins

Is the Minister for Transport to assume executive powers over the summer? Is he to adopt plenipotentiary powers while the Dáil is in recess?

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to answer the question on legislation.

The Taoiseach

There are three prospective air navigation Bills. The heads of the air navigation (Eurocontrol) Bill are expected in the middle of this year. Legislation should be available in the autumn. The air navigation and transport (Capetown Convention) Bill is in its preliminary stages and its heads are expected later in the summer. The legislation is due in the autumn. The heads of the air navigation and transport Bill are also expected and should be in the House in the autumn. As I stated previously, no Bills will be passed here before the end of the summer.

Mr. J. Higgins

Is it now to be common practice for Ministers to make announcements which will not be backed up by legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

Please allow Deputy Neville to contribute.

Mr. J. Higgins

I raise the same subject as Deputy Rabbitte. It is incredible.

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order, I protest at something which has been happening on a regular basis. Deputy Joe Higgins is correct in the point he raises. The matter was raised previously by the Fine Gael leader and by Deputy Rabbitte. We receive information from outside the House constantly by way of ministerial announcements, which clearly indicate legislative intent. When we come into the House and ask about the legislation, we are told there is no legislation. Either the Ministers are out of control outside the House or Members of the House have a right to get answers to their questions. Which is it?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point.

Mr. Neville

When will all Stages of the Criminal Law (Insanity) Bill, currently before the Seanad, be completed as promised?

The Taoiseach

The Bill is in the Seanad. When it completes all Stages in that House, it can be dealt with here.

Mr. Costello

Last year legislation was promised to establish the Dublin Institute of Technology on the Grangegorman campus. The Taoi seach is intimately involved with that. When will the legislation be introduced? It has been delayed for more than 12 months and the institute of technology has gone through a number of sets of plans at this stage. It is time to get the show on the road.

The Taoiseach

The Bill will be brought before the Government shortly, probably at its next meeting.

Mr. Gormley

My question relates to another case of a Minister promising outside the House that legislation will be introduced. The Minister for Defence indicated that the need for a UN mandate for future missions would be examined. Will such legislation be introduced?

The Taoiseach

Is the Deputy referring to the Defence Acts?

Mr. Gormley

Yes.

The Taoiseach

No legislation is listed under the Defence Acts.

Mr. Boyle

That is three.

Mr. J. Higgins

That is three hits this morning. The Taoiseach should be out.

Mr. Quinn

Three strikes.

Mr. Coveney

I have previously raised with the Taoiseach my concern about our preparedness for a major environmental accident at sea. Four Bills are promised in this area. Two Bills were due to be dealt with before the summer but the Dumping at Sea (Amendment) Bill is on Second Stage and the Sea Pollution (Hazardous and Noxious Substances) Bill is awaiting Committee Stage. Two further Bills, the Oil Pollution of the Sea (Civil Liability and Compensation) (Amendment) Bill and the Sea Pollution (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, were due to be published before the summer break. All four Bills appear to be stalled and there has been no progress on any of them over the last two or three months. Can the Taoiseach update the House on when it will receive the latter two Bills and when will the former Bills come before the House again? Obviously, at this stage it will be in the autumn.

The Taoiseach

The first two Bills have been published and are before the House. With regard to the other two Bills, one was cleared by the Government yesterday and the other is due to be approved next week. They will be published and the full set can be taken in the autumn.

Mr. Broughan

The fishery harbour centres Bill is due to be published next year. However, the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, has raised harbour charges and dues from 1 July by up to 2,300% at the five ports of Howth, Rossaveal, Castletown, Killybegs and Dunmore. This will seriously endanger the viability of the seafarers.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point. We cannot discuss what might be in legislation.

The Taoiseach

The heads of the Bill are expected in September and the Bill should be published next year.

Mr. Allen

When the Local Government Bill was passed recently by the Dáil, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government promised that regulations governing the relationship between Oireachtas Members and local authorities would be introduced. I had hoped those regulations would be published before the Dáil rises. Will they be published? On a second matter, during a debate on a Fine Gael Private Members' motion some months ago on the disabled persons grants, the Government promised a review of the three schemes – the essential repairs grant, housing aid for the elderly—

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise at this stage. The Deputy will have to put a question to the Minister.

Mr. Allen

When will we see the regulations that will result from the review? Those schemes are in crisis at present—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy does not have to discuss what he might say during the debate on the secondary legislation. I call the Taoiseach on the first question regarding promised regulations.

Mr. Allen

The schemes are in crisis and we are still awaiting the regulations following the review.

The Taoiseach

With regard to the first question, the regulations are to be published but I do not know whether that will happen before the House rises. They will be published shortly. I will try to get a definite date for the Deputy.

Mr. Allen

What about the second question?

An Ceann Comhairle

Were regulations promised on the second issue?

Mr. Durkan

They were promised in the House.

The Taoiseach

I will have to check it. I do not know.

Mr. Boyle

When are we likely to see the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority (No. 2) Bill? Publication was expected in mid-2003 and it is now the end of June.

The Taoiseach

It will be ready in the autumn.

Mr. Durkan

Given the chronic congestion in the courts, particularly the family law courts, when will the courts and civil liabilities Bill be progressed? May I also inquire about the present whereabouts and condition of the Grangegorman development Bill?

The Taoiseach

I answered the last question earlier. The heads of the courts and civil liabilities Bill are expected next month and the Bill should be ready for the autumn.

Mr. Durkan

What about the other one?

The Taoiseach

It is before the Government next week.

Ms Shortall

This morning the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, announced his intention to establish a statutory bus regulator. There is no mention of that legislation in our list. Is that legislation on the Taoiseach's list and, if so, what is its title and when might it be published? Second, what is the timescale for the promised transport Bill to provide for the break up of CIE? Have the heads been agreed and when will we see the Bill?

The Taoiseach

It is in the public transport Bill which is being prepared and will be before the House shortly.

Ms Shortall

This morning the Minister, Deputy Brennan, said there are two Bills. One will provide for a regulator and the other will provide for the break up of CIE.

The Taoiseach

That is correct. There is a transport reform Bill to provide for the reform of public transport. Work on the draft heads of that Bill is ongoing and the Bill is expected to be ready next year. The transport companies Bill will establish Bus Éireann, Bus Átha Cliath and Iarnród Éireann as separate autonomous companies. Preliminary work has started on the draft heads and the heads are expected in 2004.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Gilmore.

Ms Shortall

What about the legislation on the bus regulator which the Minister is promising in the autumn? Has that Bill been brought forward?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should allow her colleague, Deputy Gilmore, to ask his question.

Ms Shortall

A Cheann Comhairle it is hard for us to do business when conflicting information is coming from different parts of the Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is difficult to do business for a simple reason. The Deputy is entitled to ask about legislation—

Ms Shortall

I am also entitled to ask about its timing.

An Ceann Comhairle

She asked about legislation and the Taoiseach answered her. We cannot talk about the content of legislation.

Ms Shortall

Can you assist me, a Cheann Comhairle? This morning the Minister, Deputy Brennan, announced his intention to bring that Bill forward in the autumn.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach has already answered the question.

Ms Shortall

Now the Taoiseach is talking about next year. Which is correct?

Mr. Brennan

The autumn, if possible.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should submit a question to the Minister. I call Deputy Gilmore.

Mr. Gilmore

Second Stage of the Residential Tenancies Bill started in the House last week and is not scheduled for this week. Is it the Government's intention to complete Second Stage prior to the summer recess so it can proceed to Committee Stage?

The Taoiseach

There is enormous interest, in terms of the number of speakers, in that Bill. On that basis I doubt that it will be possible to conclude Second Stage. We would have to guillotine it and Members do not want that.

Mr. Gilmore

There is a problem with the Bill. As there is no commencement date for its provisions, the longer it takes to enact the Bill, the longer landlords will have to evict tenants and raise rents.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask the Whips to discuss it.

Mr. Sherlock

When is it proposed to bring the Voluntary Health Insurance Board (corporate status) Bill before the House? What is the purpose of that Bill? The forestry update Bill is also listed. When is it intended to bring the forestry update Bill – which I understand is listed – before the House?

The Taoiseach

The heads of the Voluntary Health Insurance (corporate status) Bill are expected in the second half of 2003 and we will see the legislation next year. The Department is preparing the heads of the forestry (amendment) Bill to update the Forestry Acts, and these are expected in early 2004.