Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 1 Jul 2003

Vol. 570 No. 2

Immigration Bill 2002 [ Seanad ] : Motion to Recommit.

Mr. Costello:

I move:

That in accordance with Standing Order 128(1), the Immigration Bill 2002 be recommitted in its entirety.

The aeroplane should not have been on the runway in the first instance. That is why I propose that the Bill, in its entirety, be recommitted. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, formerly the Attorney General, should know that the aeroplane should not be on the runway in this condition. It is not in proper condition, nor is it airworthy and I advise the Minister to take the Bill off the runway and he might come back with a better flying machine.

Mr. Naughten:

There are no wings on it.

Mr. Costello:

This Bill was introduced in February 2002 by the Minister's predecessor, Deputy O'Donoghue. It has been around for a long time. It was fully dealt with in the Seanad and completed before the Minister decided to introduce substantial amendments. He obtained permission from Cabinet to introduce them last December. The amendments did not appear until two weeks ago and were two to three times the size of the original Bill. They are substantial amendments indeed. Last night, the Minister returned with a further ten pages of amendments.

The Minister should know better. One should not introduce legislation in this fashion. The Bill had already been gutted to some extent by his colleague, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, when a major section of the Employment Permits Bill 2003 regarding migrant workers was removed. There will not be any opportunity for the amendments to be discussed in the Seanad, nor will we have an opportunity to discuss the amendments properly in this House. The Minister should have introduced the amendments as part of the substantive Bill and then we could have dealt with it in a proper fashion.

I am not the only one who is looking for a recommittal. Opposition spokespersons and Members have also done so, as have civil liberties groups, including my former Seanad colleague, Mr. Maurice Manning, who is now chairman of the Human Rights Commission.

Mr. Quinn:

He was appointed by the Minister.

Mr. Costello:

He was appointed by the Minister to this organisation which was set up in the context of the Good Friday Agreement to ensure that human rights on both sides of the island were properly underpinned. Mr. Manning has expressed grave concerns in regard to the legislation and asked for a deferral so that it can be properly examined. He also asked that his organisation could make oral submissions in regard to the Bill. A number of other organisations have also made this request. These include the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, the Irish Refugee Council, Comhlámh and Amnesty International. The Minister in his wisdom, however, has decided that he is the only one that is right and therefore he is not going to listen to anybody.

Before the last general election, the Minister accused the Taoiseach of acting in a Ceaucescu-like fashion in trying to establish monuments to himself as though he was some right-wing dictator. I have a feeling the Minister is going down that road very fast himself.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Mr. Durkan:

Don Quixote.

Mr. Costello:

When the Minister climbed those poles in Dublin 4 asserting that the electorate should elect him to keep an eye on Fianna Fáil—

Mr. Naughten:

He should have stayed up them.

Mr. Costello:

—I think it has come close to a situation where Fianna Fáil will have to keep an eye on him in respect of some legislation.

Mr. S. Ryan:

Where are the backbenchers now?

Mr. Costello:

The Minister should withdraw the legislation in order to give us a chance. It is important legislation and there are serious principles at stake regarding asylum seekers and refugees. We should also not forget the international commitments to which we are bound in this regard.

I urge the Minister to withdraw the legislation and recommit it so that it can be fully and properly debated.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Mr. McDowell:

I am opposed to this proposal in regard to the Bill. The Deputy has cited a number of groups which have objections to the way in which the Bill is being handled. The vast majority of people – including the great majority of public opinion – know that I am doing the right thing and fully support me in what I am doing.

I invite the Deputy to submit his case to the people as to which of us is on the right track. I think he will find out—

Ms Burton:

The Minister is on the right track all right.

Mr. Stagg:

There is no doubt but that the Minister is on the right track.

Mr. McDowell:

—what the position is in that regard. I am fascinated by the new-found inability on the part of the Deputy to distinguish between the right and the left. Nicolai Ceaucescu, for all his grandiose plans, was a left-wing dictator. He was a communist.

Mr. Costello:

That is the way the Minister described the Taoiseach.

Mr. McDowell:

He was a communist. He came from the same origins as some of the members of the Deputy's party.

Mr. M. Higgins:

That is an old record.

Mr. McDowell:

I know it is an old record but sometimes it has to be repeated because some of the members of the Labour Party forget their own past.

Mr. M. Higgins:

The Minister should listen to himself, he would outdo him any day.

Mr. S. Ryan:

The Minister was also a soldier of destiny. He should not forget that.

Mr. McDowell:

Who?

An Ceann Comhairle:

Allow the Minister without interruption, please.

Mr. McDowell:

I was never in that party.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Minister should address his remarks through the Chair, so as not to invite interruption.

Mr. McDowell:

I suggest, through the Chair, that Deputy Michael D. Higgins should not get too excited about my past. I know exactly about my past. Some of the Deputies surrounding him, including those who have joined him in relatively recent times, know what it is to use the term communist and left wing. Others, including Deputy Higgins, if they go back to their own past—

Mr. Stagg:

The Minister should address the issue.

Mr. Costello:

The poor Taoiseach.

Mr. McDowell:

—might remember the time when he postured as a member of Fianna Fáil—

Mr. Stagg:

The Minister should address the issue for a change.

Mr. McDowell:

—against the godless atheists in the Union of Students in Ireland.

Mr. Stagg:

The Minister should address the issue of the proposal before the House.

Mr. M. Higgins:

The Minister is wrong again. It was the student council at UCG.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Allow the Minister without interruption.

Mr. McDowell:

We know about Deputy Higgins.

Mr. M. Higgins:

The Minister should get his section of the communications unit to dig it out. He can get one of the 80 or 90 staff to research it properly.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Once again, I appeal to the Minister to address his remarks through the Chair so as not to provoke interruption.

Mr. Rabbitte:

By the way, that was a terrible allegation against the Taoiseach.

Mr. McDowell:

We should put some basic facts on the record about the Bill.

Mr. M. Higgins:

That is a change.

Mr. McDowell:

In the select committee, we debated at considerable length and in considerable detail the content of the Bill. We also discussed the content of the Government and certain Opposition amendments to the Bill that are now incorporated in the text before us, which I have accepted – as I hope Deputy Costello will acknowledge – as well as Opposition amendments that were not accepted by the committee, all of which are now before us on Report Stage.

Mr. Costello:

Plus another ten pages.

Mr. McDowell:

I brought forward a small number of amendments, 13 in all, most of which relate to technical matters arising out of the Committee Stage debate, some of which, although signalled in that debate, I acknowledge as having new material. I said that on Committee Stage.

I contrast what I have done with what Deputy Costello did, which was to go on the radio and complain about the absence of notice—

Mr. Rabbitte:

In fairness, that is not something the Minister would do.

Mr. McDowell:

—and to table 114 amendments—

Mr. Stagg:

Imagine going on the radio to complain.

Mr. McDowell:

—including 30 amendments to my amendments—

Mr. Stagg:

Imagine a Deputy complaining on the radio.

Mr. McDowell:

—giving me exactly 24 hours notice of these amendments and then saying that he was not being given enough time to consider my amendments. He has 30 amendments—

Mr. S. Ryan:

The Minister said we had all the time in the world.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Allow the Minister to conclude his remarks.

Mr. McDowell:

He had, a Cheann Comhairle, the opportunity to so research my amendments that he could put 30 amendments to my amendments on the Order Paper.

Mr. Stagg:

The Minister tried to block them.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Allow the Minister to conclude his remarks.

Mr. McDowell:

I think I am right in saying that only a short speech is in order, a Cheann Comhairle. We have bent over backwards to accommodate the Opposition on this matter. The Department's officials offered briefings and prepared explanatory documents—

Mr. Costello:

On the morning we got the amendments.

Mr. McDowell:

—and produced a consolidated text. I know what is going on here. There is a concerted effort on the part of the Labour Party to satisfy their pals in the trendy minority who think they are right on this issue—

Mr. Stagg:

The Minister obviously represents the majority view.

Mr. McDowell:

—by getting across the notion to the public that it can, by an elaborate filibuster, bring this matter to the autumn and not have it decided now.

Mr. Costello:

What about Maurice Manning and the Human Rights Commission?

Mr. McDowell:

The time has come for this House to face up to its responsibilities. If the Labour Party cannot stick the pace of my legislative programme, let it—

(Interruptions).

Mr. McDowell:

It is lagging behind. I am content to go on, and I believe the majority of the Members of this House are content to proceed with this now.

Question put.

Tá

Boyle, Dan.Breen, James.Broughan, Thomas P.Burton, Joan.Connolly, Paudge.Costello, Joe.Crowe, Seán.Cuffe, Ciarán.Ferris, Martin.Gilmore, Eamon.Gormley, John.Gregory, Tony.Harkin, Marian.Higgins, Michael D.Howlin, Brendan.McGrath, Finian.

McManus, Liz.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Quinn, Ruairi.Rabbitte, Pat.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.

Níl

Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Allen, Bernard.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coveney, Simon.Cowen, Brian.Crawford, Seymour.Cregan, John.Curran, John.Davern, Noel.Deasy, John.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dempsey, Noel.

Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J.Ellis, John.English, Damien.Enright, Olwyn.Fahey, Frank.Finneran, Michael.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Fleming, Seán.Gallagher, Pat The Cope.Glennon, Jim.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Hayes, Tom.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kehoe, Paul.Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Lenihan, Brian. Lenihan, Conor.

Níl–continued

McCormack, Padraic.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McGuinness, John.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Nolan, M.J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.

O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Malley, Fiona.O'Malley, Tim.Parlon, Tom.Perry, John.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Eoin.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Michael.Stanton, David.Wallace, Dan.Walsh, Joe.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael.Wright, G.V.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Stagg and Costello; Níl, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher.

Question declared lost.