Jack Wall
Ceist:65 Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if Abbotstown is still under consideration by the Government as a possible location for a new national stadium; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22189/03]
Other Questions. - National Stadium.
John Gormley
Ceist:69 Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the progress which has been made regarding a final decision on a national stadium. [22417/03]
Bernard J. Durkan
Ceist:76 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the position in regard to the national stadia; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22392/03]
I propose to answer Questions Nos. 65, 69 and 76 together.
I refer the Deputies to my response to Priority Questions on this issue early this afternoon. As regards location, Abbotstown is among the options that remain under consideration as a site for the provision of stadium facilities.
I think I am right in saying that Abbotstown has been the Minister's first priority. He believes it is the best location. Does that still stand that Abbotstown remains the Minister's first priority?
Personally I believe Abbotstown is the most appropriate location for a new stadium. I have always indicated, of course, that this is my opinion. In truth, the priority for me would be the actual provision of a stadium. Abbotstown would remain my personal preference.
What specific options will be going to Cabinet in the memorandum? How many are there and what will the specific ones be? We want to know exactly what is ruled in and ruled out. We know from the Minister's answers that he favours the Abbotstown option. Have studies been carried out in support of this favoured option in terms of transportation infrastructure? Has the Minister received any correspondence from the IRFU, GAA or the FAI on their concerns and any potential threats to proceed themselves with previous options? I could certainly see the FAI seeking to resurrect Eircom Park.
Obviously I cannot go into any great detail about the options to be put before Government, other than to say that they will include the various geographical locations under consideration in the event that it decides to construct a new stadium. The costings will be put before the Government as well as options as regards the private and public sectors. With regard to infrastructure, where this is required it will be brought to the notice of the Government in the context of the memorandum. We have the Ove Arup report and now the Office of Public Works report, so there is plenty on which to base the memorandum for the Government's consideration.
I have not heard from the FAI, nor the IRFU for that matter, that they intend to proceed on their own with the construction of a stadium. I know the GAA has indicated that it intends to complete Croke Park, one of the finest stadiums of its kind in the world.
Could the Minister inform the House what is happening in reality on this issue which had taken on a life of its own a couple of years ago and seems to have stalled currently? The same urgency does not seem to be in evidence as was the case a couple of years ago. For instance, has the Minister initiated any discussions with the various sporting bodies? Perhaps he would inform the House which bodies he has had discussions with in the past 12 months, and what the outcome was, and when, or if, he intends to have talks with the other sporting organisations involved in the meantime.
I have had discussions with the IRFU, the FAI and the GAA on this and other issues over the last 12 months. It is my intention to have further talks with the three main field sports organisations in the coming weeks and months. The conclusion we require is a decision by the Government as regards the stadium. That is what I am pursuing. As I outlined to the House earlier this afternoon, while I strongly believe a stadium should be constructed – and I believe this view is shared by the sporting public which represents a considerable number of people in Ireland – I am only one member of the Government and in the final analysis it is a collective decision.
Could the Minister confirm that the estimated cost of the project at Abbotstown excludes further development costs – infrastructural costs – which were put at €353 million and can he give us a firm indication that we will not have serious cost over-runs? Could he give an estimate of the cost of the much needed infrastructural work that would be required to service the Abbotstown site and compare that with the cost of the Lansdowne Road site, which would be approximately €350 million, on top of which there would be contributions from the FAI and the IRFU? In his opinion, what would be the overall cost of Abbotstown in today's terms? That would be the combination of the cost of the construction of the stadium and the development of all necessary infrastructural work.
My estimate for the construction of a 65,000 seat stadium at Abbotstown at September 2003 costs, which would include construction, essential infrastructure, inflation and planning, would be of the order of €381 million. The FAI and the IRFU have indicated that if the project does proceed at Abbotstown, between them they would be able to contribute €118 million. Most of this, if not all, would arise from the sale of corporate boxes and so on. There is also the question of the sum of money offered by Mr. McManus, IR£50 million. That is a matter which will be discussed with Mr. McManus in the context of any new proposal that comes forward. It is important to note it would be possible to front-load the construction of a stadium with receipts from the IRFU and FAI in the shorter term. Major funding for the stadium would not be required until the third or fourth year. In other words, if one were to begin planning it now, I would envisage that the major funding of it would not become a drain on the Exchequer for about three to four years. The fourth, fifth and perhaps sixth years would be the most expensive periods for the project. It is contingent on a Government decision. We are completing the memorandum and will see where we go from here.
What about the infrastructure costs?
I estimate that the minimum infrastructural costs are included in this.
What about the transport infrastructure?
It all depends on what we are discussing. If we were speaking about a metro link or a new road, we would be talking about different money.
They are necessary.
I am talking here about the amount to provide a stadium and essential infrastructure. In other words this is the amount with which one could get by at the moment.
How would people get there?
In deference to my colleague, perhaps the Minister will elucidate further. The essential infrastructure will obviously be road and rail network, otherwise people would have to walk a couple of miles across a field, which would not be very edifying given the much vaunted structure about which we have heard.
Has the Minister established a price for the structure as opposed to what has been the norm here in recent years whereby the propensity to overrun is greater than the propensity to stick to the estimate? Will he take steps to ensure there are no overruns in this case?
I wish I could get to that stage first. I do not want to pre-empt the position. Obviously, every possible step will be taken to ensure the costs are minimised to the greatest extent possible. In that respect there will be contractual requirements, which will follow a very competitive tendering process regardless of whether the public or private sector is involved. The difficulty I have at the moment in making predictions into the future is that I do not have a Government decision on how this will proceed. Obviously I will not have such a decision until the Government discusses the memorandum, which is in the course of completion. When this is done I will bring it to the Government, which will take it from there.
Last night's "Prime Time" programme, which covered the issue of Celtic and Rangers, mentioned that some people believed that Celtic was an Irish club that happened to play in Scotland. We have already heard that the international soccer team might start to play its matches outside this country. Given the possible three or four year timeframe to get the stadium operational, would the Minister agree the decision should be taken as soon as possible to avoid the necessity of the national team having to play in another country for any length of time if at all?
This difficulty arose as a result of FIFA informing the FAI that it could not tolerate the use of temporary seating in Lansdowne Road in the medium to long-term. While the current capacity of Lansdowne Road is 49,000, there are only 24,000 seats. Some 11,000 temporary seats are brought in for every home international, which is untenable. In addition, many games hosted by the FAI in Dublin could command crowds of between 60,000 and 80,000. The best the FAI can hope for is a crowd of 35,000. We have reached the stage where the sporting public and particularly the soccer supporters who are there in large numbers have given up hope of ever getting a ticket for a home international because they feel the capacity is not there.
The IRFU made its position clear. It has a stadium with a capacity of 49,000, including those who stand. In its games against England up to 80,000 could wish to attend the games. The FAI and IRFU are losing massive revenue. People argue that Croke Park is the answer. It may form part of the answer, but it is certainly not the solution to the problem. There are several difficulties with Croke Park, including residents' objections, the need for floodlighting, midweek games, overlapping of fixtures and several others. The truth is that Ireland needs a new stadium, but the question is whether we can devise a method for doing so.
Cork needs a school of music too.
Would the Cork Deputy put his priority there?
As Deputy Allen said, Cork needs a school of music. This is the problem with so many competing demands for a purse that is not that large. Nonetheless I will put the proposals before Government and hope for the best.