Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 12 Nov 2003

Vol. 574 No. 2

Adjournment Debate. - Community Employment Schemes.

I am grateful for the opportunity to raise this matter on the Adjournment. It is important that a new category is introduced which would allow people with disability, those over 55 and the long-term unemployed, to remain on their community employment or FÁS schemes. Is the Minister in favour of this, especially in the light of the review of the existing criteria for FÁS schemes? FÁS is wonderful, the people who run it are magnificent and the participants are real heroes. FÁS has changed the face of Ireland in so many positive ways.

I know that FÁS numbers were cut from 40,000 to 25,000 and that they are now down to 20,000. This is because the Government felt there were so many non-nationals looking for work that the Irish workforce should be engaged from FÁS numbers. A section of FÁS participants will never be re-trained sufficiently for them to enter the general workforce. These are the groups to which I refer.

At present, under FÁS rules someone under 35 years of age can work for only one year on a scheme. In exceptional circumstances they are allowed to remain in employment for a second year. It is, however, very much the exception rather than the rule that a person would get two years. Even an individual with a chronic disability does not usually get more than a year on a FÁS scheme if they are under 35 years of age. Those over 35 years are entitled to work for three years on a FÁS scheme; after that they must finish, without exception. The aim of FÁS is to re-train people for the workforce but those over 55 years of age, those with chronic disability or those in long-term unemployment are unlikely ever to get back into the workforce.

A multiple sclerosis community employment scheme covers counties Mayo, Galway and Roscommon. It is a magnificent scheme which does wonderful work. I am glad to say this project will be renewed for a further year, but half its participants are due to be let go. All the participants suffer from multiple sclerosis, which is a lifelong illness. As they come from the most deprived rural areas, there is no alternative employment for them. I met with these people and was most impressed by them. They perform valuable work in a supported environment. The scheme allows them to earn an honest living. Cutting back this scheme will mean insufficient staffing for it, thereby bringing about an inadequate service. This will result in the failure to provide essential services to this vulnerable group of people who suffer from multiple sclerosis.

The following is an extract from an article written by an MS sufferer which appeared in the autumn 2003 copy of Health Links, a publication of the Western Health Board, which spells out the position in which such people find themselves:

I had to tell my employers about my MS and I was told I had to leave my job because their insurance would not cover me. That news really cut me up. I felt useless and depressed and could see no way out.

That is a true reflection of the dilemmas such people face.

I have talked to those people and they say that FÁS is a lifeline. The Minister can light a candle which will become a flame. It might be a small matter in the scheme of things but it means everything to them.

The seven participants who are about to be laid off are all MS sufferers who do not have any other hope of employment. How could it be justified to lay them off? According to the rules, they have to be laid off after one year if they are less than 35 years of age and after three years if they are aged over 35. The cost to the State of keeping a long-term unemployed person on a FÁS scheme is only €20 to €30 extra per week, yet people are laid off to go back on the unemployment scrap heap. This does not make sense. Some €30 per week is a small price to pay for the dignity and everything else which employment gives to these people. Why not leave them on the FÁS scheme? It is time to create a new category of scheme.

This scheme provides a lifeline to these MS sufferers whom I have met. It is a tragedy that they are being laid off because many of them were previously laid off from regular employment because of the onset of illness. As I said, employers said they would not be covered for insurance purposes. This scheme does great work, including visiting people affected with multiple sclerosis in their homes. It also operates a day club for MS sufferers which operates during the week with, on average, up to 20 participants. The scheme also organises physiotherapy for MS sufferers. The work includes bringing people from Belmullet for physiotherapy and day-trips.

Last year the scheme received support from the Western Health Board but this year no extra funding was given as it was not available. The participants had to raise €3,000. These people are heroes doing good work under the auspices of FÁS. Does the Minister of State not agree that it would be better to put the long-term unemployed, those over 55 years of age and those with chronic disability, regardless of age, in a special category so that they can be retained long-term on community employment schemes? FÁS has given these people new dignity and a purpose in life. It seems perverse that a review of the present criteria for community employment programmes should not include the making of a special category for those groups I have mentioned.

Will the Deputy confirm how many people were let go from this scheme, or how many will be let go? I did not catch exactly what he said.

At what stage are they being let go?

The scheme will be renewed in January and the seven will be let go from that point.

I am surprised at that because all those being let go from schemes should have finished at this stage. I am not aware that additional people are to be let go. We are down to 20,000 at this stage. I will look at this case. I would be concerned, as the Deputy is, about people who have disability.

The essence of the community employment schemes since their inception, going back to the days of the social employment scheme, was that the maximum period of employment was for three years, after which people could no longer remain on the schemes. This has always been the case and it is no different now from for many years.

I find this matter somewhat strange in that I announced in the House on a number of occasions my intentions in regard to community employment schemes. I am surprised the Deputy is not aware that, on at least three occasions, I told the House that it is my intention in the new community employment scheme – subject to Government approval and finance being made available – to have a new category for people over 55 years of age who would be given an opportunity to go back on schemes after they had concluded a period on unemployment assistance and also that we should have a special category for people on disability payments and those with special needs.

I am, therefore, rather surprised that the Deputy should ask us to consider a new category when that has been flagged on a number of occasions. It strikes me as if—

We need reality, not just aspirations.

Allow the Minister of State, without interruption.

The Deputy's reality, on a couple of occasions that I have heard him, seems to be that he reads things in the paper and then calls for them or makes announcements on them. This strikes me as political opportunism.

The Minister of State should withdraw that comment.

We had an old-style politician in Galway a long time ago—

I ask the Minister of State to withdraw that comment. It is unworthy of him.

If the Deputy is telling me to face reality—

If the Minister of State would address his remarks through the Chair, perhaps he would not invite interruption.

A Cheann Comhairle—

On a point of order, I ask the Minister of State to withdraw that comment. It is unworthy to make such a remark. I am undeserving of that. I am here doing my best and I resent that type of inane comment which does not serve anybody.

The Deputy has made his point.

The Deputy is telling me to face reality. This matter strikes me as the height of political opportunism. As I said, there was an old-style—

This is not opportunism. I am representing my constituents. There are rules in the House. How can it be called opportunism to represent the electorate?

The Deputy has a handy knack of reading announcements in the papers and then calling for them to be expedited the following week. That kind of old—

It is very poor if that is the only answer the Minister has. It is unworthy of the Minister of State to make such remarks.

Sorry, Deputy. I ask you to allow the Minister of State to continue. The Chair does not have a facility for forcing a Deputy to withdraw a political charge. Political charges are made all the time in the House. They are part of the debate.

On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle, with respect, it is unworthy to personalise a comment like that.

Sorry, Deputy—

That is unacceptable. I ask the Ceann Comhairle to use his powers to castigate the Minister for the—

The Chair has no control over a political charge.

I am responding to the Deputy's charge – to face reality – while I making my contribution. In facing reality, I want to tell him that that kind of parish pump political opportunism went out of this House a long time ago. There were several fine debates in this House when Fine Gael and the Labour Party made useful contributions on ways in which to improve community employment schemes.

That is the only thing the Minister of State can say.

I accepted a number of proposals from Opposition Members as well as from my own backbenchers and Members of the party of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

That is very poor. The Minister of State should resign for saying that.

We have come up with a very good community employment programme. While it has yet to be approved by Government, I am confident—

Will the Minister of State do what I say then?

There is no convention to allow questions.

The new community employment scheme will be capable of ensuring that the long-term unemployed will have a better chance to retrain.

Will they be allowed to go on schemes?

I know Deputy Cowley does not like to be found out trying to pull a stroke.

The Minister of State has let himself down.

Deputy Cowley will not be pulling any stroke with me. He has codded the people of Mayo since he was elected, but he will not cod me. The people of Mayo will soon realise the "codology" the Deputy comes out with on issues such as Corrib gas in respect of which he spoke of thousands of jobs. He told Members of this House that he would ensure there would be a drilling platform in the Atlantic. It is about time the Deputy saw a bit of reality.

It would be more in the Minister of State's line to answer the question I put down rather than try to gain political capital from a personal attack.

The Deputy put down a question and he should allow me to answer it.

There will be an improved focus on the training of the long-term unemployed to ensure they have employment opportunities. In addition, a comprehensive service will be provided to communities across the country and a special effort will be made to ensure that those people who are not capable of progressing into full-time employment will have a better opportunity to participate in community employment programmes. Deputy Cowley should not take any credit for that.

That was a very poor performance.

Barr
Roinn