Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 Nov 2003

Vol. 575 No. 4

Other Questions. - Proposed Legislation.

Eamon Gilmore

Ceist:

46 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for the Environment Heritage and Local Government the main provisions of the proposed national infrastructure Bill; if the heads of the Bill have yet been brought before Government; when the Bill is likely to be published and brought before Dáil Éireann; if it is intended that incinerators will fall within the remit of the national infrastructure board; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28428/03]

I intend to bring draft legislative proposals to Government in the coming weeks to streamline the consent process for major infrastructure projects. I will be seeking priority for the drafting of the legislation, once approved by the Government, to ensure the Bill is published at the earliest possible opportunity next year.

In advance of the Government considering these proposals, it would be inappropriate to elaborate on their details, including details on the types of national infrastructure that might be included in the proposed legislation. In general terms however, it is intended to reduce the time required for obtaining development consent for necessary major public projects and to co-ordinate and streamline the different procedures now involved, while respecting the requirements of environment and heritage protection and the need for adequate public consultation.

In general terms, will this legislation cover roads and waste management facilities?

As the Deputy is aware, I have not yet taken this to Government and I will not discuss in the House the contents of potential legislation at least until I go to Cabinet, as I am duty and honour-bound to do. While we could speculate forever, I have made it clear we are concerned with major public projects. It is clear what I am saying.

Clearly we are not talking about Vega City. We are talking about major public projects and we do not have to be geniuses to work out what they are. The future major public projects from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government are largely centred on roads, motorways and waste management facilities. This legislation for major infrastructure projects has been publicly announced. We are entitled to be told at least in general terms what the Government is planning. While it is a matter for the Government to decide on the detail of the legislation, the proposal has been announced by the Taoiseach and has been referred to on a number of occasions in the House. In view of this, the Minister, when asked, is obliged to tell the House in general terms the types of infrastructure projects involved. I am not asking him to list individual projects.

The Deputy is aware that every day, the Taoiseach is asked questions in this House that are ruled out of order as it is not possible to discuss the contents of a Bill. I am trying to be helpful to the Deputy. Given the obligations on me as a Minister, I am not in a position to discuss proposals in public before I bring them to the Government.

I may have taken the view that the areas to which the Deputy refers could be termed confined areas, but having started work on this, it is interesting to discover other people's definitions of what are major and strategic projects. I am very interested in some of the ideas that have been proposed and they must be considered, regardless of their source. Many different independent bodies involved in engineering, planning, etc., have submitted interesting views unsolicited. I am happy to consider any ideas that can improve the development of the national infrastructure. I have an open mind on all these matters.

The Bill in question is not far from being finalised. I hope to take it to Government before Christmas, when the situation will become clear.

When the Taoiseach announced this, his stated aim was to fast-track major projects. Would the Minister agree that since his announcement, this proposal has gone into the slow lane? From the hype surrounding the announcement, I had expected to see proposals on the table within weeks. However the Minister cannot give us any idea of the specifics of the legislation. Has the Minister consulted with his Cabinet colleagues? For example has he spoken to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, as to whether the Ringsend incinerator should be within the ambit of the legislation? While he says he has spoken to the business sector, has he spoken to representatives of the public who might have concern about bypassing the legal process on planning?

Nobody can do that.

What about the environmental impact studies that are required for major projects?

Nobody can do that. It is not possible to bypass environmental impact studies and heritage matters.

What is fast-tracking about then? This is why I am convinced this has gone to the slow lane and that the Taoiseach's announcement was nothing other than a comment off the top of his head. At this stage there is no substance to it.

This is the most significant work in which I have been involved in recent months. The legislation is extremely complex and the Deputy has rightly identified EU directives, EISs, Irish legislation, etc. Nobody would suggest it would be possible to sunder any of that. It is clear that bringing a major project to conclusion involves many different processes that do not necessarily run in parallel or in sequence. It takes years to get from the start of a project to delivery. All of us want that to stop.

We want proper practice, transparency and adherence to all the laws of the land. However the goal is to try to do this encompassing all the points the Deputy raised and in a more specific timeframe. This complex matter has greatly exercised my mind. There has been considerable interdepartmental discussion about it as it is necessary to consult with all the Departments to determine their views on any projects they have.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, has views.

I am well aware of his views. As the Deputy knows, that project is a matter for Dublin City Council.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform does not agree with that. He thinks it is a "ready-up" between the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Dublin City Council.

That is a highly regrettable statement.

Has the Minister spoken to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform?

Has the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform spoken to the Minister?

I will leave that between the two Ministers and perhaps the Taoiseach. Will projects which are to be considered for the national infrastructure Bill be audited for ecological sustainability? I presume the western rail corridor would score highly on that measurement while some others might not. Does the Minister agree that under international law that would be an obligation under the Amsterdam Treaty and the Kyoto Protocol? It is not an optional extra.

Does the Minister distinguish between infrastructural projects? What is the case with regard to one which is being built ostensibly for profit, in that it will be a business, for example, an incinerator? Regardless of what it is called, thermal treatment, mass burn, waste to energy, waste of energy, it would have to be on a stand-alone profitable basis. A charge would be levied against citizens on that basis. Does the Minister see a distinction between that type of project and one which is infrastructural in terms of road, rail or some other part of civic infrastructure? Will that inform the Bill or will it be used by people who are in a rush to make money—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy, we are way over time.

—to get their project up and running?

With waste management plans now being adopted courtesy of the managers—

Not in all cases.

Do all regional waste management plans which have been adopted include incineration? Will incinerators be built?

The Minister described as highly regrettable the statement by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, that the proposed incinerator on Poolbeg peninsula was a ready-up between Dublin City Council and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Has the Minister, Deputy Cullen, been in communication with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, about that statement? Has the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform agreed to accept that his public statement was highly regrettable?

I agree with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell. As I understand it, the Minister is against mass burn incineration. I have never been in favour of this type of incineration. I never proposed mass burn incineration as a solution to waste disposal, in the House or anywhere. The Minister is awaiting my proposals and, like all my Cabinet colleagues, I am sure he will have plenty to say about the various aspects of the proposed legislation when I bring it to Cabinet.

Before and after.

He will vote against it.

The Minister might issue a summons.

We know the mistake that is being made in Galway. I am afraid a serious mistake is being made.

We are not making any mistakes in Galway, we are leading the way.

Galway is leading the way by going in the direction of landfill, which the whole world has decided is the most damaging waste solution in terms of the environment.

It also says that incineration is the laziest of options.

Not at all.

Barr
Roinn