Vol. 575 No. 5
7 Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the audit procedures in place between his Department and a company, ADM Limited, in relation to the funding administered by it to the local development social inclusion programme, RAPID, and the PEACE II programme on behalf of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28646/03]
ADM Limited is audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General.
The question relates to the audit procedures in place in the Minister's Department. Is the report made available to him? Is he satisfied that all of the companies concerned are audited? Do they not report to him?
Auditing is not a ministerial function.
I understand that. Is the Minister satisfied that all of the money his Department is spending on organisations linked to ADM Limited—
The question does not read that way. It relates to the audit procedures in place between the Department and a company, ADM Limited, in relation to the funding administered by it. We understood it to mean that the Deputy wanted to know what the auditing procedures of ADM Limited were. He was not questioning the auditing procedures of ADM Limited but wanted to know what control procedures we had in place for partnerships, community development support programmes and so on.
Are there any problems with any of them?
I am not happy that all of the procedures in place for the voluntary and community sector are as tight as I would like them to be. I am examining that issue as part of the review being carried out. Some partnerships, CDSPs and other bodies are funded directly from the Department and some from ADM. I agree that we must ensure that each of those bodies has a proper auditing and control system in place to ensure the money they get is spent properly and there is full accountability.
Is the Minister saying that those auditing procedures are not in place?
There are auditing procedures but I still—
Has any matter been brought to the Minister's attention which might indicate they are not in place?
Not specifically. Has the Deputy a particular case in mind?
No.
There is a general feeling that we need tighter procedures. That is part of this review and will form part of the recommendations arising from it. I must be sure that these bodies, some of whom get considerable sums of money from the Government, have proper accounting procedures, that there is openness and transparency about what happens to the money and that there are no whispering campaigns, true or otherwise, which will not be followed up. We are examining the matter as part of the review. The Deputy may take it that whereas I have no specific complaint with regard to financial irregularities, a general question has been raised as to whether our procedures are tight enough to ensure nothing can go wrong.
The question refers to the auditing of particular programmes concerning the PEACE II programme. Is the Minister satisfied that the use of all such moneys is appropriate to the programme? I have been informed that PEACE II money has been used to develop a car park in Letterkenny, County Donegal. I am not too sure whether the moneys came through the town council or the county council. If such practices are occurring through the use of this fund, what is the rationale that says such a development is consistent with peace and reconciliation work?
This question is way beyond the remit of the question asked. If the Deputy wants to write to me to check whether a specific matter is within the terms of a certain scheme, I will follow that up. In general, I accept we need to ensure that bodies have proper procedures in place to ensure that all money is expended within the terms on which it is given and that it is properly accounted for. This issue will form part of the review process taking place at the moment on the partnerships, CDSPs, etc. and will also form part of the recommendations which I hope to have soon.
Will the Minister make available information he has on the organisations under his remit that have audited accounts and those that do not? Has a situation been brought to the attention of his Department concerning an irregularity at any stage in one these bodies? If so, will he make the information available to us and if not, will he go on the record as saying "no"?
One is always wary but I genuinely cannot remember a case of a complaint of substance. What I mean by that is that, whereas people might often pass a general comment that a group is a waste of time, I have not known a case of where someone has said money has been wrongly spent. I am quick to act if someone writes to me or makes a substantial case about that.
I acknowledge that.
The Deputy knows of another issue raised recently which was the subject of some public comment. It was raised with me on a Saturday and, when I came to Dublin on the following Tuesday, I immediately informed my Secretary General, the Accounting Officer, of the issue. We immediately set in train steps to ensure that the matter would be fully investigated.
ADM handles partnerships. Therefore, if an issue concerning it is raised with me, the Department tells ADM to investigate it. A small amount of extra money was made available to ADM this year but, before any further moneys were given to keep breakfast clubs and such things going, I asked that those bodies in ADM which were overspending to carry out a thorough investigation of how they operated to ensure that unnecessary waste, etc. would be eliminated.
