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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 2 Dec 2003

Vol. 576 No. 1

Private Members' Business. - Community Employment Schemes: Motion.

I move:

"That Dáil Éireann:

noting the success of Community Employment (CE) as recognised by all parties in this House in:

– providing opportunities for the long-term unemployed to re-enter the labour market,

– providing useful training and upskilling of long-term unemployed people,

– providing essential support to community and voluntary organisations to undertake vital work in communities throughout Ireland,

– believing that there is now majority support within this House for the expansion and development of the Community Employment scheme;

– calls on the Government to:

– reverse the cuts in the number of CE places,

– approve the creation of an additional 5,000 CE places for next year,

– ensure the retention and development of Jobs Initiative (JI), and

– instruct the Minister for Finance to arrange for the necessary extra funding."

I propose to share my time with Deputies, Costello, Stagg, Penrose, O'Sullivan and Moynihan-Cronin.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

This motion deals with community employment schemes. There have been many questions, debates and motions in the House on the issue for a good reason. There is widespread acknowledgement of the value of these schemes to communities throughout Ireland. Every Deputy in the House knows from first-hand experience that terrible damage has been done to vulnerable groups by the savage cuts in the schemes which have taken place over the last two years.

After months of attempting to defend the indefensible, the Minister of State with responsibility for labour affairs, Deputy Fahey, has finally broken ranks and admitted the truth. In his own words, these cuts are wrong. They were forced on him, according to himself, by the Minister for Finance. When a member of Government reaches the point of publicly declaring that a policy of Government is wrong, under the doctrine of collective responsibility he must either accept responsibility for these actions or remove himself from the responsibility. Deputy Fahey seems to want to do neither. Instead he is leading his backbenchers in a revolt against his own policy. This Alice in Wonderland situation saw 33 Fianna Fáil Deputies demand a change of policy last Tuesday – they are probably not here tonight because they are still demanding it – and a full restoration of the 10,000 places that have been cut in the last two years on the CE schemes. Of course the Minister for Finance was in Brussels last Tuesday – when the cat is away the bravery of Fianna Fáil backbenchers is increased.

This week it is time for those Government Deputies who agree with the Minister of State to make their minds up. They must either vote with this side of the House to restore vital community employment or give up their pretence at concern. I am talking about Government Deputies because the Progressive Democrats are also publicly disagreeing with one another over CE cuts, despite the fact that the political head of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is the leader of the Progressive Democrats and the Tánaiste. Deputy Sexton criticised Deputy Fiona O'Malley for her attack on the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey. Deputy O'Malley accused her colleague Minister of giving politics a bad name – that is what the Minister of State is doing, according to his own – and playing to the public gallery. Deputy Sexton rounded on Deputy O'Malley and promised on RTE television to make her views on community employment cutbacks known during this debate. We wait with bated breath.

The issue of community employment should not be dealt with through posturing or phoney wars. When Deputies come to vote on this motion tomorrow, Dáil Éireann may vote to acknowledge the value of the thousands of schemes up and down the country, of the 20,000 people who are serving their communities doing essential and vital work and of the thousands of community and voluntary bodies which sponsor CE schemes. Alternatively, it may vote to reduce all their efforts to a mere labour market strategy of limited intrinsic value and therefore open to be cut or ended when labour market conditions improve. Few issues give a clearer insight into the difference between a conservative understanding of how communities work and the progressive view of development at local level. The issue cannot be fudged. Deputies must either vote to restore these schemes because they are worth the investment – because they have intrinsic value – or vote to register their satisfaction with the cuts of the last two years.

When CE was introduced by the former Minister for Finance, Deputy Quinn, few expected it to become the success story it subsequently did. It has supported sports organisations, the elderly, the disabled, arts groups, environmental protection and community development. Over the years it has become the glue that holds together quality of life in communities. The Government has lost the plot. Whatever CE was originally intended to do, it has become much more. When the Minister of State – or as we saw earlier, the Taoiseach – quotes the reduction in numbers of the long-term unemployed as justification for cutting CE, of which we will hear more tonight, he misses the point. He fails to understand that these schemes do essential work. Without the schemes the work will not be done and we will all become impoverished.

It is interesting that the first sentence of the Government's proposed amendment to tonight's motion says that Dáil Éireann, "reaffirms that the primary role of community employment is that of an active labour market programme". The Government has no concept of how it is much more than a labour market programme – it is the value added that sustains community activity and community groups and provides support and a better quality of life for thousands of our citizens. Another falsehood began to be peddled today when Government representatives compared the numbers on one scheme, community employment, with the numbers on three schemes, the community employment scheme, the jobs initiative and the social economy programme. The criteria for participation in each scheme are different. It is nothing more than a patent attempt at deception to roll three schemes together and pretend they can be compared to the numbers on one scheme. The people are not to be taken as fools.

A third falsehood is the empty promise made again and again on Question Time by the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, and others that the disabled would be unaffected by these cuts – that they would, in the phrase of the Minister of State, be ring-fenced. Last week every Member of this House was lobbied by campaigners on behalf of the Centres for Independent Living – disabled people seeking a measure of independence for themselves. They brought to each of us first-hand testimony of how their quality of life had been adversely affected by the CE squeeze. Not only are the numbers being cut, but the terms of qualification for CE participation have also been changed. No longer can the long-term unemployed return to CE after a period away from it. The Minister has introduced three-year term limits which is having a hugely negative impact. This is deliberate policy – it is not by accident. The leaked Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment report of senior officials to the Cabinet committee on social inclusion states that while places may be ring-fenced, individual personnel are not. They are being squeezed out one way or another.

Another famous promise was based on mainstreaming. Although it was mentioned this afternoon by the Taoiseach, this is also being abandoned. There is no hope left for people who are losing their personal assistants or who depend on any of the vital work being done in the health area by those in community employment. If they lose out under one of the mechanisms of squeeze that the Minister and the Minister of State have introduced, there is no prospect of replacement with mainstream money. I quote from the report of senior officials to the Cabinet committee on social inclusion which states: "In the light of the experience of mainstreaming in the education sector, it has been decided not to pursue mainstreaming in the health related areas of community employment." All of this havoc is being wreaked on communities and individuals and on the prospect of people getting back to a decent standard of living. For what purpose? That is the question I repeatedly put to the Minister of State. Why is it being done? Surely it is not to save the miserable few bob.

The core cost of community employment is the difference between what a person would receive on social welfare and what he or she gets on community employment. The basic personal rate for those on community employment schemes is €149.20 per week. Persons with a qualifying dependent get €232 per week while the child dependent allowance is €16.80. By comparison, a person on unemployment assistance gets €124.80 per week, or €207.80 per week with a qualified dependent. The child dependent allowance is again €16.80. The core cost per participant of maintaining somebody in community employment is €24 per week. That is what this is about. In a budget of billions of euro are we going to rob communities of vital participation and vital work? Are we going to rob people of the dignity of labour and put them back on unemployment assistance to save a lousy €24 per week?

We have heard the published figures tonight. Miraculously, like last year, they are much better than we were led to believe when the Estimate process was going through. There can be no justification for the savagery that has been unleashed on communities and individuals by the reduction of 10,000 places on community employment schemes over the last two years. Since there is no logic from the financial perspective in throwing somebody off a community employment scheme for €24 per week, it can only be explained by the Government embracing an ideology which is foreign to this country – an ideological view of community and of people. It is a view which places value only on what can be deemed to be economically productive. It has no wish to understand what adds value to lives among ordinary communities – among those who want to play sport, who want to live independently, who want to enjoy or be exposed to the arts for the first time. If one is not an economically productive unit in this new economy one has no place and must be crushed. This is a view of Ireland that is alien to our traditions.

This House will have the opportunity tomorrow to decide whether this is a vision of our tomorrows that we want. Those who are currently wrestling with their consciences on the far side of the House can decide to reject this narrow economic vision of Ireland and show that they place value on the people in communities and the work done by participants in community employment schemes and the voluntary and community organisations who sponsor them through their efforts to give a leg up to vulnerable people throughout the country.

The community employment scheme cut that has been proposed and accepted by Fianna Fáil is the ultimate attack on the old, the weak and the ill. It Is something that Fianna Fáil in the past would have stood steadfastly against. However, the new Fianna Fáil can only raise a hypocritical voice, in some kind of residual memory of what it stood for in the past as the dog now being wagged by the PD tail.

Community employment schemes are a valuable contribution to the quality of Irish life. They provide services which would not otherwise be available. They give employment to people who would otherwise not have it. The Government has embarked on a huge attack on those services and on the lives of those involved – the long-term unemployed, lone parents, those involved in the meals on wheels service, in assistance for the aged and in caring, indeed all of the elements that provide quality of life in society.

A couple of years ago a commitment was made to the RAPID programme by which funding of €2 billion was to have been provided for structured programmes and projects that would target the most disadvantaged communities. That has gone by the board. Approximately €5 million has been spent in deceiving communities into thinking much would be delivered towards eliminating levels of deprivation in up to 37 of the most disadvantaged areas. Little hope is left if what is currently in place, the community employment schemes, is eliminated. They have been drastically reduced already during the six years this and the previous Government has been in office. The Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, is determined to get rid of them, as is the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, despite his fine words behind closed doors, when the cat was away in Brussels. It will be interesting to see what he now has to say and to note the position taken by the 40 staunch supporters who apparently signed their name in support of his views when the votes are counted tomorrow.

Deputy O'Connor is one of them.

They will hardly be in the House or if they are they will not be supporting the Minister of State. It will be interesting to see whether he will stand over what he said.

In my constituency of Dublin Central, the Taoiseach's constituency, traditionally one of the most deprived and under-developed areas in the country, the community employment schemes have been a tremendous advantage to local communities in the services they have provided. In the summer when the rumours started and FÁS was indicating the schemes were going to be cut again, a number of people on the schemes and on the jobs initiative programmes went on hunger strike outside the GPO for 24 hours to highlight the good work being done and the loss of services being threatened. That happened in the Taoiseach's constituency, so perhaps he might look into his heart and decide that some continued support is required.

The cutbacks do not only affect this area. The Estimate for the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform proposes to slash funding for awareness in education programmes for asylum seekers and refugees by 76%. Across the board, the Government is prepared to slash funding which is necessary to improve the quality of life and assist communities that might be under threat. This is a disgrace. We hope that the Minister of State will stand by his fine words and stand up and be counted when the opportunity arises.

The dual success of the community employment schemes is highly visible. It has taken people out of long-term unemployment and given them work cleaning and beautifying villages. The physical and social benefits are there for all to see. That is what the editorial in today's Irish Independent has to say. While it sums up the value of the community employment schemes, I wish to expand on what it had to say. The CE schemes restored the dignity of regular work to the marginalised in our society. It restored a pride of place to communities that had lost that pride. It provided essential basic training for those who were long out of the work ethic or who had never been in the workforce. The scheme organisers were also highly successful in placing participants in full-time jobs. The CE schemes also catered for a number of special people, those with low self-esteem and those with low or no employment prospects. These special people were transformed by their participation. They are particularly and harshly dumped on the scrap heap with no prospects, by the cruel decision to introduce these cuts.

What has been the effect of the decision of the Fianna Fáil revolutionaries, those on the Front Bench and the Progressive Democrats to slash the community employment schemes? Let us take Celbridge as a typical example. That scheme began in 1993 and was chopped at the beginning of 2003. It employed 12 trainees and one supervisor. They transformed the village of Celbridge and brought pride of place to its new citizens, and dignity and self-worth to the participants in the scheme. New trees were planted, walls were built, flowers were sown and street furniture was put in place. The GAA grounds were maintained, as were the grounds of the Church of Ireland. The old graveyard at Donacomper was restored to a level that afforded dignity to those who lie there. It meant much more. A sense of community and a sense of pride of place was created in Celbridge by the scheme. In January this year, the PD-Fianna Fáil axe fell. The local Progressive Democrats Senator, Kate Walsh, never lifted a finger or opened her mouth in support of the scheme. When I challenged her publicly on the matter she sent me a solicitor's letter. As a result, 13 people are back on the dole without hope. The weeds are again in evidence. The flowers are neglected. All the good work has been set to naught. There is now nothing to be proud of, there is just shame.

I want to address a few remarks directly to the Fianna Fáil and Progressive Democrats backbenchers. We saw them vote in the Dáil repeatedly over the last two years to cut 15,000 community employment scheme places. We saw them vote for the Estimates on Wednesday, 19 November, for the last round of cuts in community employment schemes. This will mean 5,000 less places than in January 2003 – no doubt, no mirrors, no magic. We witnessed their crocodile tears and well publicised tantrums against the decision they made on 19 November when their parliamentary party met on 25 November, less than a week after they voted for the cuts. Their crass, brass-necked hypocrisy, bare-faced lies and treatment of the public as fools—

The Deputy must withdraw the word "lies".

I withdraw the word. The Ceann Comhairle will know what I mean. Their brass-necked untruths and treatment of the public as fools will rebound in their collective faces. They are feeling the heat and there is evidence of this from the people they have punished and abused. They will be given one last chance to redeem themselves when this motion calling for 5,000 new places in the CE schemes will be voted on in this House tomorrow. This is their chance. This is when they can show their mettle or else either put up or shut up.

The cutting back of community employment schemes throughout Ireland is a calculated attack on the living standards and needs of urban and rural communities. Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats have effectively dismantled much of the vital work carried out throughout the country under these schemes. A deal between the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Department of Finance – two Departments driven by right-wing ideology and as close to Thatcherism as possible – has seen the budget for community employment schemes slashed and many local initiatives go to the wall.

I salute my colleague, Deputy Quinn, and the Labour Party Ministers of 1985 for what they did in regard to the Royal Canal, which runs through Deputy Sexton's constituency. Westmeath and Wexford county councils adopted the social employment scheme model. They released a skilled carpenter. When many fools were talking about blocking in the canal and putting a road through it, they encouraged the Royal Canal amenity groups, voluntary groups and those involved in inland waterways to re-open this vital infrastructural and tourist facility. Westmeath County Council participated by providing a carpenter, young apprentices and community employment type people. They set about manufacturing lock gates for the Royal Canal to ensure it would become navigable right through to the Shannon, provided for by national development plan funding. However, I doubt if sufficient money is provided.

This is just one project in the recreational and tourism area which will bring people to an area which depends for the most part on agri-tourism and agriculture. It will embrace and widen recreational projects in the area, beginning in Dublin and travelling through Kildare, Meath, Westmeath and down to Longford and the Shannon. This is the type of scheme the Government is cutting.

Let us get down to brass tacks in regard to another scheme in Mullingar. MSCO was founded in 1995 to provide facilities for nine clubs and organisations. As a result of the cutbacks it was amalgamated with eight clubs which meant it was catering for 17 organisations. Some 20 people were employed, including a supervisor and assistant supervisor. These people had to travel a 60 mile round trip. The news is now coming through that the numbers employed will be slashed from 20 to 13. As the assistant supervisor will no longer be needed, the scheme will become inoperable. The Government parties cannot say they do not know what is happening. They know well what is happening. The Progressive Democrats dread the community employment schemes. I am surprised at the Fianna Fáil backbenchers. I salute Deputy O'Connor for coming here but where are the missing 39 Deputies?

The savage cuts have had a devastating impact on communities throughout the country, particularly on the community and voluntary sector. Under the cuts, many vital areas such as adult education classes, youth and employment services, day centres and health services for the elderly must be either jettisoned or reduced as local communities suffer from the Government's lousy economics. The changes introduced by the Tánaiste on behalf of the Government have already begun to reduce the numbers of participants in the schemes, with the consequent knock-on effect on the provision of essential services.

Confidence among communities has been undermined as the progress that was being made to regenerate certain areas and give people access to vital services has come to a sudden halt. Years of valuable work throughout the country will be lost if the Government imposes further CE cuts. Community employment schemes are central to the confidence and morale of many people in urban and rural communities. Are the windows blackened in State cars travelling throughout the country so that Ministers do not know what is happening? One should look at villages throughout the country, the Tidy Towns awards and the marks villages have obtained. The Government does not support the council workers by providing sufficient money. As Deputy Howlin said, councils must set up jobs initiatives to try to clean up graveyards as people searched for the graves of their ancestors. The jobs initiative schemes were put in place because the CE schemes did not cover this type of work. This has now been discontinued. If the Government is in office for much longer it will wipe out rural Ireland.

This type of ideologically-driven penny-pinching is foolhardy economics. It undermines the ethos of the schemes and people's confidence. People give up when their morale hits the floor. Participants who have carried out extremely important and valuable work in their communities must now go on the live register. Is anyone able to count? I recently heard Deputy Ring ask if anyone in the Department of Social and Family Affairs is able to count because they made such a cock-up regarding the pre-1983 estimate. They have now made another cock-up because they could not count how many children would qualify for child benefit and a Supplementary Estimate had to be introduced. Can anyone anywhere count?

There are no savings involved for the Exchequer. The proposal is just ideologically driven. When schemes are reduced and amalgamated the people who suffer are the disadvantaged. These people are being asked to foot the bill for the economic problems that have been created by Government mismanagement and incompetence. When given a choice, it is always the same as the poor have to carry the cudgel but the financiers and the well-heeled stallion owners never have to carry any trouble while the Government perpetuates its right-wing views across the country.

My colleague, Deputy Howlin, made the point well when he said this was more than an active labour market programme. That is the point the Ministers in the Government appear to have missed. This is much more than a labour market programme, it is about human lives. The wrecking of the community employment schemes will cause a huge level of disturbance and loss within our communities and for the most vulnerable in society. My colleagues have rightly said this is driven by ideology and that it is about an ideology that ignores the human element of what is being decided. It is no accident that the lone ranger, Deputy O'Connor, has left the House. There is not a single Fianna Fáil backbencher in the Chamber. That is an indication of how ashamed they are of what is being done in Government and the fact that Ministers appear to have lost touch with reality. They are so arrogant and divorced from reality that they have not been able to take on board what the backbenchers have said. Obviously the backbenchers will not have the guts to come in and stand up for what they have said either. Unfortunately the most disadvantaged communities have to suffer because of the breakdown in communications in Government, the alienation of Ministers from what is going on in communities around them and the effects of the cuts.

Recently the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Dea, the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Tim O'Malley, and I attended a meeting in Limerick at which we met the PAUL Partnership in Limerick city. Also present were representatives from four communities which, unfortunately, Members have heard of even if they have never stepped into them – Moyross, Southill, St. Mary's and St. Munchin's, who argued vehemently against the cutting of the schemes. They referred to the loss of care workers in the home, the loss of crèche workers, the loss of those who man security cameras in Moyross where I would have thought the Government would have wanted to encourage community effort in the prevention of crime, and the loss of a wide variety of other workers doing essential work in their communities. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, told the meeting that the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Fahey, had a proposal that would solve the problem and not to worry. The Minister of State, Deputy Tim O'Malley, agreed.

Mickey Mouse.

Everybody went away thinking this was grand, that the Government knew what was going on and would do something about it. Unfortunately what we find today is that nothing is being done and no money has been found. It is worthy of note that when the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Noel Dempsey, was in trouble in regard to funding for third level institutions, the Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, was able to find money in her Department, yet she cannot find the paltry sum required to maintain these vital services in communities throughout the country. This is not just in urban communities. I speak vehemently on behalf of those deprived urban communities which I represent where there are huge problems and where these schemes have made a difference.

I have received letters also from rural communities. The following small areas in County Limerick have completely lost their community employment schemes: Caherconlish, Lough Gur, Kilteely, Herbertstown, Old Pallas, Templebraden, Cloverfield and Nicker – the heart of Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea's territory. As Deputy Howlin said this is for the miserly sum of €24 per person per week. I have been given information by the South Hill community services community employment scheme which states that eight home care visitors earned €149.20 per week per person. On the dole they will receive €124.80 per week per person. Some 60 people will lose home carers for that paltry sum in one of the most deprived communities.

It is a disgrace. It is outrageous.

The Government should be ashamed of itself. Even at this late stage it should rethink what is happening. Those in Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats – I note Deputy Sexton is present – should get their act together and implore their Ministers to realise what is happening in the real world. We are talking about the most deprived section of the real world and the voluntary effort of communities. They will have their opportunity. We will vote tomorrow and I hope they will all vote with us.

Hear, hear.

One of the groups which has been devastated by the cuts in community employment schemes is lone parents. Since the inclusion of single parents in community employment schemes they have been enabled to avail of education, training and updating their skills, while at the same time accessing affordable child care. Another aspect of the benefits of bringing the marginalised – single parents – into our communities is that many became active members. Already we have witnessed the effects of the constant cutbacks in community employment schemes on the marginalised. It is important to stress it is the marginalised who are affected. Community programmes have been lost and essential services decimated. We may be repeating ourselves but the more times we say this the better the chance the Government might eventually realise the seriousness of the position.

Community employment schemes have provided a main focus for community initiatives such as care of the elderly and the provision of child care, initiatives which ordinarily would have been ignored. This flies in the face of common sense and is directly contrary to the Government's so-called commitment to social inclusion. There is no social inclusion when the cutbacks affect the most marginalised and the consequences can be felt all over the country.

Community employment schemes have made a positive impact on society and have provided opportunities for those who would otherwise have found it difficult to get into the workplace. If the Government is serious about tackling social disadvantage and the needs of the marginalised, it needs to reinstate the community employment schemes immediately. However, in recent years it has chipped at this programme and the numbers have dropped by 10,000. The length of time a person could spend on the scheme has been reduced. In addition, lone parents were dealt more devastating blows by the Government when the savage 16 cutbacks were announced recently. Not only has the Government reduced lone parents' social welfare entitlements but it has closed off one of their best entry routes back into education and the workplace.

Community employment has also become an effective and successful training mechanism for those with disabilities. Time does not permit me to deal with the issues concerning those with disabilities. They are marginalised. The various groups dealing with disabilities have a difficulty because the criteria have been changed. Many organisations have found that without adequate trained staff, they can no longer provide essential services for those with disabilities. Is this social inclusion? It is for Fianna Fáil.

What fascinates me is that the Taoiseach does not understand what is happening. Today in the House he claimed there were no cutbacks because there were 25,000 people on the scheme. The Taoiseach is an accountant and there is nothing as good as creative accounting. One thing I want to do is to advise the Taoiseach that a community employment scheme is not the same as a jobs initiative or a social economy programme. Let us be clear – and I hope the Taoiseach is listening – that these are three separate and distinct schemes, each of which has its own objectives. This is a three-card trick by the Taoiseach who has shuffled schemes and tried to create the impression that there have been no cutbacks when clearly there have been cutbacks. Fianna Fáil fooled the people in the last election but it will not fool them again. I hope that when the Taoiseach speaks about CE schemes in future he speaks about CE schemes and not any other schemes. I urge all Members to support the marginalised in our society and to support this motion. Can we send a message out of this House this evening that we will not stand by while they are victimised by the Government's mismanagement of its own resources?

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"– reaffirms that the primary role of community employment is that of an active labour market programme which through the provision of work experience and training opportunities can progress disadvantaged persons from a position of long-term unemployment into work in the open economy;

– acknowledges the positive impact community employment schemes have had in disadvantaged communities and recognises that the work and commitment of participants in the scheme has played a significant role in community activity and has been essential to the viability and provision of many voluntary, youth, sporting, disability and many other important services in the community;

– welcomes the decision of the Government in a more uncertain economic climate to maintain combined participation levels on community employment, jobs initiative and social economy programmes at 2003 levels with no further reductions in numbers envisaged in 2004 as a recognition of the invaluable contribution these programmes make to local communities all around the country and that the substantial level of funding provided for next year reflects this;

– commends the policies of the Government that have resulted in a very low level of unemployment and have, in particular, brought about a substantial reduction in long-term unemployment in recent years;

– notes that the review of the CE programme takes place not only in the context of a dynamic labour market, with jobs growth and historically low levels of unemployment being maintained, but at a time when Government has given huge priority to implementing a twin-track strategy of trying to prevent market, with jobs growth and historically low levels of unemployment being maintained, but at a time when Government has given huge priority to implementing a twin-track strategy of trying to prevent long-term unemployment while proactively assisting persons who are long-term unemployed to get jobs;

– recognises the substantial allocation of resources the Government is making available in the Estimates for 2004 for the provision of employment programmes, and notes that this will permit a very high level of activity in 2004 in support of local services and local communities;

– notes with satisfaction that the total allocation for employment programmes has been fixed at €351 million which will support up to 25,000 places across three employment schemes, that is, community employment, jobs initiative and social economy and will ensure that there will be no reduction in overall participation levels in 2004;

– notes that the Government is providing, in addition, some €308 million for training and integration supports, within FÁS, in 2004;

– notes that the overall FÁS budget has increased from €605 million in 1997 to €837 million in 2004; and

– welcomes the continuing review of the operation of these schemes to maximise the benefit to participants and to the organisations and committees with which they work."

Listening to the Labour Party Deputies it strikes me that their argument is based on a false premise. In this year's Estimate €351 million was provided for community employment schemes, that is for the retention of 20,000 places in addition to 5,000 places for the jobs initiative and social economy programmes.

Why is the Minister of State leading a revolt?

I did not interrupt any of the Labour Deputies.

We are going to interrupt the Minister of State.

I listened to their insults.

Please do not interrupt the Minister of State. He is entitled to the same courtesy that the Deputies had.

Listen to the Santa Claus.

The Deputies must put up better opposition than this nonsense.

Please allow the Minister of State to speak without interruption. Six Members were allowed make a contribution without interruption and the Minister of State is entitled to respond.

There have been no cuts made in this year's Estimate for CE schemes.

Next year.

The cuts were made last year.

This year.

We reduced from December last year—

the number of places from 25,000 to 20,000 this year.

He wants to restore it.

This Estimate provides for a continuation of 20,000 places in addition to 5,000, making a total of 25,000 places.

He is not satisfied with that.

What is the additional cover?

Let me put into perspective the background to this issue. In 1999, following a review—

The Minister of State need not give us any history. He should tell us what he is going to do about it.

Allow the Minister of State speak.

We know the history.

Following a review of community employment schemes – the then figure was the maximum CE figure of 37,500 – it was decided because of the changing unemployment pattern to review and reduce that. This was done in consultation with the social partners at a time when unemployment was coming down from a high of 17% to 4%, or 4.4% as it is now. My Department gave out 6,000 work permits in 1999. As of the end of this year, it will have given out 47,000 work permits. The labour market has changed drastically from the time when we had long-term and high levels of unemployment. When CE was introduced it was an active labour market programme to provide an opportunity for people to get work experience and training.

This does not sound at all like a revolt. The Minister of State is reading from a script prepared by the Taoiseach or the Minister for Finance. It is a damp squib.

The Labour Deputies do not seem to have realised it yet but it is a damp squib on their part.

There are three of them out there.

Where was Deputy McCreevy wrong?

It was necessary.

Why was the Minister of State thrown out of Deputy McCreevy's office?

Please allow the Minister of State to speak without interruption.

Give the Minister of State a chance.

Deputy McCormack is biased towards him because he comes from Galway.

The Chair insists that the Minister of State is allowed make his contribution without interruption. If Deputies accept that this is a serious debate which it is—

Not for the Labour Party.

Each side of the debate is entitled to make its contribution in such a way that it will not be interrupted and will not be frustrated in doing so. If it is necessary to ask somebody to leave the House, the Chair will have no option but to do so. The Minister of State is to continue.

The Ceann Comhairle should give him water to wash down his humble pie.

We came from a position of 17% unemployment and it was necessary over the last four years to reduce the number on CE schemes. However, as of this evening 25,000 people are on CE or related schemes plus 4,500 who have been streamed into education. That is almost 30,000, a reduction of 7,500 from what it was at its height and when unemployment was at its worst. Over the last 12 months I have been engaged with senior civil servants and FÁS in a review of CE and recently presented a new policy on CE to the Cabinet committee on social inclusion.

For all the notice it took of the Minister of State.

It has two main objectives. First, the continuing objective of an active labour market programme but with greater focus on a comprehensive and improved system of training, which will be geared towards ensuring that those on CE and who are capable of progression into employment, are given an opportunity to progress. The second provision is for a structured and expanded—

The Chief Whip is giving the Minister of State a note.

He should put more feeling into the speech.

It might be good news. Let him open it.

He could give it more feeling.

—community service provision instead of the ad hoc stop-start community service provision—

The note says: "Notwithstanding what I have just said I am now about to announce an additional 5,000 places."

Please allow the Minister of State to speak without interruption.

He better read the note just in case.

He should tell us what is in it.

His car is double-parked. There is nothing worse than one's car being double-parked.

Yes there is: double-clamped.

The second objective is an important one and I am going to repeat it. This is to provide a structured and comprehensive community service across the community as an essential part of CE which up to now operated on an ad hoc stop-start basis. The priority is to expand CE to cater for a sector of the community which up to now has not been able to find sustainable employment or benefit from progression in CE and live in areas where it is not possible for them to find employment. Those people are over 55 years of age and are either in receipt of disability benefit or have other special needs. The new CE programme is much improved on that which existed to date. The cost of expanding that programme is low because it will be funded out of the savings of people who would otherwise be on social welfare, plus the top-up—

On a point of order. If the Minister of State has a script would he kindly refer to it.

I do not have a script.

It does not sound like he has one.

As the Labour Party speakers said, the top-up is a small sum plus an amount for the material requirement. I have very strongly supported the acceptance of this project because I have met communities around the country over the last 12 months

He can fight back.

I have listened to Deputies here and in the communities and I accept that the reduction has caused problems.

Now is the chance—

The Deputy is not going to intimidate me.

The Deputy should be sensible.

The Deputy can vote tomorrow.

Deputy Stagg, the Chair insists on order for the Minister of State.

The Minister of State is beginning to sound like a CE minister.

I respect the fact that there must be a change given the labour market and that CE has contributed significantly to community services. The Minister for Finance and I have differed on this. It is healthy that I can have a disagreement with the Minister—

He is giving Deputy Harney's viewpoint now.

—and put my point of view and hold it. I respect the views of the Minister for Finance.

The Minister does not respect the Minister of State.

If we did not have the kind of financial control and macro-economic and fiscal policy that this Minister has applied over recent years, we would not have the growing economy we have today.

I would not get carried away.

Only a small amount of money is required to increase this scheme.

The Minister of State should share his time with Deputy O'Connor.

I will get my chance tomorrow.

I have told the Minister for Finance that I believe he should agree to the proposals and their financing. This matter is still under review. It was not a matter for the Estimates and it is not a budgetary matter, therefore this review goes on.

And on and on.

I am quite confident—

It is like a Duracell battery.

I am quite confident that at the end of the day we will get the improved and expanded CE we are seeking.

There has been robust discussion of the issue in the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party in the last 12 months and, yes, last week there was a motion passed in support of the policy that has been agreed and the financial plan for it. This is the seventh Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party I have been privileged to be part of and there is little doubt in my mind but that it is the best because it is prepared to make a critical analysis of Government policy—

And then support it.

—it is prepared to be open and honest within the party rules—

Within party rules.

—about the concerns of members. Previous Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Parties have not always been honest in this respect.

The party had a good chairman for a long time.

That is a good thing. The Labour Party returned here with so few Members that it does not even have to worry about backbenchers.

We are all frontbenchers.

If the Government keeps going this way, Fianna Fáil will not have any backbenchers.

The Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party has expressed its view and, as democrats, we accept that if that point of view is not acceptable, we will fight on.

They will vote for the opposite.

I make no apologies to the Labour Party or anyone else for the case for the new programme that will be introduced.

Here is my opinion but I will support the opposite.

The Labour Party tabled this motion to embarrass Fianna Fáil backbenchers and myself but they will not succeed in that cynical objective.

If the Minister of State does not know he is embarrassed now, he never will know.

The Labour Party will not succeed.

We have succeeded already.

It has provided an Opposition in this House in the last 16 months based on sound-bites, cynical humour, a smart alec approach and trying to be entertaining.

The Minister of State will have his chance to lead the revolution at 1.30 p.m. tomorrow.

That might have been good enough when Deputy Rabbitte and I were students in UCG and he was president of the students' union, but it is hardly good enough for a main Opposition party in this House.

The Minister of State should tell that to the people on community employment schemes.

At least then people knew how the Minister of State voted. He said one thing and voted for it, the old fashioned way.

We should look at the record of the Labour Party, and that of Deputy Michael D. Higgins, since he is prepared to contribute.

I do not recommend that, it will be dangerous for the Minister of State.

Looking at his record in Galway, in his five years at the Cabinet table, the working class areas of the Westside, Ballybane and Ballinfoyle did not see one brick laid for any community or sports facility.

That is nonsense.

Deputies

Nonsense.

Compare that with my record in five years.

I was working for my constituents when the Minister of State was holding planning meetings. Has he held any more?

I ask Deputy Michael D. Higgins to allow the Minister of State to continue without interruption. The Deputy will get his opportunity to contribute to the debate.

If the Minister of State makes unsubstantiated remarks, I am entitled to respond.

The Deputy is out of order, the Minister of State is in possession.

I did not have time to attend to the men in suits.

The Deputy is out of order.

We will give Deputy Michael D. Higgins an opportunity to tell us about the facilities he put into the working class areas of Galway while he was Minister.

Absolutely. The Minister of State bought all the bricks himself.

Compare the record of Deputy Michael D. Higgins to my record as Minister of State in the Department of Education and Science, at the Department of Health and Children and at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

What about the revolution?

In all three Galway estates to which I referred, significant facilities were provided for the first time. Millions of euro have been spent. The most recent facility is a family resource centre in Ballinfoyle that was opened by the President last week.

What about the community employment schemes?

Compare the record of the Government to that of the Labour Party in Government when Deputy Quinn was Minister for Finance and Deputy Rabbitte and Mr. Proinsias De Rossa were in the Cabinet. What interest did the Labour Party have in the working class estates of the cities throughout the State?

We established the community employment schemes.

What facilities did they make available in Ballymun, Darndale and Ronanstown in Dublin?

We provided lots of facilities.

We established the Ballymun regeneration plan.

Deputy Quinn must allow the Minister of State to speak, he will get an opportunity to contribute.

The Minister of State asked a question, will he give way to a reply? That is the rule.

Will the Minister of State give way?

The Minister of State is continuing and it is his right not to give way if he so wishes. The Deputy will get an opportunity to contribute to the debate.

The Minister of State does not even know where these areas are.

I am asking a rhetorical question.

Did they not give the Minister of State a script? Or will he not read it?

When the Labour Party Members do not have the good manners to listen to the facts, it shows what a bankrupt Opposition party it is.

The Minister of State asked me a question and he does not want to hear the answer. We established the Ballymun regeneration plan.

The Minister of State should get out of it.

I will have to ask Deputy Stagg to leave the House if he continues to interrupt.

We are being provoked.

That is not sufficient reason not to allow the Minister of State to make his contribution.

They are easily provoked.

We are listening harder to him than the Minister for Finance.

If Deputy Burton wants to leave the House, she should continue the way she is going.

We are demonstrating the same respect for the Minister of State as the Minister for Finance.

The Minister of State can join the revolution. He can be Ché Guevara.

It is obvious the Labour Party is unable to accept the facts that are clear to everyone about its position in Government when it came to looking after the less well off in this State. In the working class areas of Dublin like Ballymun, Darndale and Ronanstown, key Labour Ministers did little or nothing in these estates.

We rebuilt them.

We started all the schemes.

In Moyross and Southill in Limerick, nothing was provided when the Labour Party held the reins of financial power.

Will the Minister of State accept an answer?

In Muirhevnamore in Dundalk—

Will the Minister of State accept clarification?

Does the Minister of State want to give way to Deputy Quinn?

The Minister of State raised three areas specifically, Ballymun, Darndale and Ronanstown.

No, I will not give way.

The Minister of State wishes to continue. Deputy Quinn cannot continue to interrupt.

So the Minister of State does not want the answer to his question.

We will give him the facts tomorrow.

In Muirhevnamore in Dundalk, in Ballybeg in Waterford, in Mahon and Togher in Cork, nothing was done. The most deprived areas in this State were ignored by the Labour Party when it was in Government because the Labour Party never cared about those who are less well off.

That is rubbish.

The Labour Party Members come into this House this evening with the audacity to table a cynical motion—

Which will catch out the Minister of State.

—when they have no interest in the people who are on community employment schemes in the country.

The Minister of State has been caught.

They are trying to make a cheap political point and embarrass people in our party.

It appears that is not possible.

There will be no embarrassment because of this cynical motion. When reform is suggested by the Government, particularly in the labour market, in which I am pleased to have been involved in the last 12 months, the Labour Party Members are the first up to fight the reform.

What reform?

When there are new realities and changing circumstances in the labour market and we have to make difficult decisions, the Labour Party Members are the first to object to any good decision.

This is not a good decision.

We have heard the arguments from the Labour Party in this Chamber in recent months at Question Time and on the Adjournment. I have asked Deputy Howlin on a number of occasions to put a price tag on the argument he makes time and again. When the Labour Party had the opportunity to do something for the less well off, it neglected it

We took it.

We invented the community employment schemes.

That was clearly demonstrated by the miserable social welfare allocations given out during its period in Government.

The Government wants to get rid of community employment schemes because the Labour Party invented them.

The Estimates for this year provide for significant funding for community employment schemes. There will be changes and improvements during the year. It is my intention that there will be increases. I am satisfied to fight the case and if that means having to stand up publicly and agree with the Minister for Finance, I am happy to do that.

What will the Minister do if he does not agree?

If the Labour Party thinks for one moment that the electorate is foolish enough to accept the cynical exercise in which it is involved tonight, it should look across at the Sinn Féin representatives who will show it a clean pair of heels. Sinn Féin is doing so at the moment because the Labour Party has neglected the constituency it is supposed to represent.

I thought the Minister's party represented them.

The Labour Party came back here in a large mini-bus because it neglected the people it is supposed to represent. Its members should not come to the House preaching about what is good for the less well off because I will not take preaching from anybody.

Charvet shirts.

In my 22 years in politics I looked after the less well off, and there is a record to show that in each of my ministries, in particular as Minister of State with responsibility for children. I followed a Labour Minister for Finance who cut the money for children's schemes. We saw on television last night the results of the policies Deputy Quinn espoused when he was Minister for Finance.

That is completely untrue.

It is completely untrue.

In moving this amendment, let us make it clear that there is one party interested in the less well off and in people who are in community employment.

Is that the Fianna Fáil Party?

We will ensure that those people are properly looked after and supported, and we do not need any cynical motions from the Labour Party to do that.

The Minister's party ditched the Progressive Democrats,

I wish to make a point of order.

There is no need for that.

I will make my point of order and will not take instructions from the Deputy. I understood that there is half an hour of Government time for this issue. Is there no other Government Deputy offering to speak in support of this issue?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

There is no other Government member offering on this issue. The Government cannot even fill its own half hour.

I wish to share my time with Deputies Murphy, McCormack and Ring.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Agreed.

I support the Labour Party motion on community employment schemes. The Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, provoked this motion by stating last Wednesday that 5,000 more places were required for community employment schemes in fulfilment of the will of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party.

I did not. That is incorrect. I never mentioned anything about that.

The Minister of State wants to restore the number of places. He stated that he needed to restore to 25,000 places the number of people on CE schemes. The Taoiseach attempted to manipulate the figures today by amalgamating the places in the jobs initiative scheme, the social economy scheme and the community employment scheme to cloak the difficulties that have emerged in his parliamentary party last week.

No amount of disguising the fact can make us doubt that the Fianna Fáil Members, including the Minister, have failed to convince the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, and the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, to increase the necessary number of places on community employment schemes. If there was no problem with this scheme, what was the difficulty last week when 40 members of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party felt that they had to put down a motion to deal with this matter, and the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, felt that he must publicly state that he disagreed with the Government policy and the Estimates which he helped vote through the previous week?

The community employment schemes have carried out a very important function for many communities regarding sports fields, community halls, resource centres and help for the disabled. Even the commitments on ring-fencing the funding for RAPID throughout urban areas have not been kept. People and communities feel let down by the cuts in 2003 which will continue as a result of the publication of the 2004 Estimates.

I know it is difficult for Fianna Fáil and Progressive Democrats Deputies because they are getting it in the neck in their constituencies on these issues. They are caught out by their own parliamentary party motion, while the Labour Party has wisely introduced this motion this evening to show the legitimate aspirations of people in their communities, but also to reveal the hypocrisy of Fianna Fáil and Progressive Democrats Deputies who have been trying to cloak their difficulties with this issue by promoting a new scheme. Deputy Sexton did not feel it appropriate to tell us tonight exactly what she had in mind, and I look forward to her contribution whenever that comes. She can explain to us the changes she regards as important in the present scheme to fulfil the commitments to communities and various organisations around the country.

This motion is important and timely. We must free the Fianna Fáil 40 from their consciences. They have gone to their constituencies and said they would do the business for communities where schemes have been drastically cut back. We will have the opportunity on Private Members' Business tomorrow, and again during the budget debate, to see who is running this country and if the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party has any clout with its Ministers.

The issue of community employment schemes has been running since the formation of the Government. It has been the subject of Dáil debates, Adjournment debates and every Question Time for the Ministers involved. Looking at all the answers from both the Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, and the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, there is one thing that is consistent – no matter what questions they were asked, they were awaiting the review of the FÁS schemes, which was always due shortly but has not yet been published.

The history is simple. The Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance came to the conclusion that unemployment figures were down, and as figures and statistics are far more important to these Ministers than people or communities, these cuts were implemented. This was despite the fact that it was regularly pointed out to the Government that the difference between paying community employment scheme worker rates and unemployment benefit would have little or no effect on overall Government finances. As Deputy Howlin pointed out, the difference is only €24 per person per week.

No consideration was given to the disabled who participated in the schemes, to single parents or to the over-50s. The Minister continued to argue that participants must progress to the labour market, though every statistic indicated that most people in these categories would progress only to the live unemployment register.

Hear, hear.

Cuts were implemented without taking into account the varying job opportunities available in different parts of the country. No consideration was given to the fact that there were no suitable jobs available in small towns, villages or rural areas.

Precisely.

Another famous piece of jargon used to confuse the issue was the mainstreaming into health and education. The facts are simple. CE schemes were far more efficient and community-friendly than mainstreaming the small budget transfers into health or education. The success of that programme was jeopardised. The Minister then said that the environmental CE jobs would also be mainstreamed, presumably into local authorities. Thankfully, this never happened. Local authorities are now underfunded to the extent that they too are no longer any help to the communities they seek to serve.

The Tánaiste then came up with the idea of having discussions with the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, to devise a scheme to support community projects. In a Dáil reply the Tánaiste told me she had entered these discussions in November 2002, but they must be continuing 12 months later as no scheme has emerged to help local voluntary groups. Shortly afterwards, the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, in a reply to a request to set up a social employment scheme to facilitate in particular the over-50s, lone parents and the disabled, told the House that he had recently entered into discussions with the Minister for Social and Family Affairs on further options for this category of workers. A year later, we must presume that the Tánaiste's discussions with the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and these discussions with the Minister for Social and Family Affairs are still ongoing.

Despite these studies and discussions, cuts were implemented in the Estimates. On numerous occasions in the Dáil, Fianna Fáil backbenchers voted for cutbacks in community employment schemes and will do so again tomorrow. This seems to be some sort of joke for Fianna Fáil. Its members seem to think they can fool the electorate into believing they are against the cuts while at the same time voting repeatedly to support the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance, thus enabling them to implement these cuts. It might be a joke and a stunt for Fianna Fáil but it is a serious issue for voluntary community groups trying to help the disabled, the elderly and the young. It is no joke for participants being dumped back on the dole queue or community environmental groups trying to improve their towns and villages. It is a sorry mess and a disservice to politics.

I am sorry my constituency colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, had to leave before the debate was concluded. He must be under pressure. He gave a rambling speech which was a diversion from the problem he faces. He even went so far as to attack the Government record of our constituency colleague, Deputy Michael D. Higgins. The Minister of State and Deputy Higgins were in Government together for a while so I do not understand what the Minister of State could have been talking about. He did a disservice to the debate by giving such a peremptory speech and then leaving the Chamber. However, we must get on with the debate.

During Leaders' Questions I heard the Taoiseach say that community employment schemes were working well. If that is the case, why is it necessary to cut 5,000 places from such schemes? Do the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste not realise the valuable work carried out by community employment schemes? How can the Government cut back the schemes when their good work can be seen in every town, village and parish? Community employment schemes do much necessary work, both visible and invisible.

Participants in community employment schemes work with disadvantaged people. In the Galway area alone 15 such people are employed in CE schemes working with people with physical disabilities. At the end of this year seven of these will have served three years and, according to the new regulations introduced by the Government, will not be eligible to continue on the schemes. The assistance participants give to people with disabilities, for example, in the 19.5 hours per week which they worked, enables these people to lead independent lives in their own homes. That will be impossible if they lose the personal assistants they have had for the past three years. That is what will happen, whether Deputy Fahey likes it or not.

In my constituency some people with physical disabilities are employed on community employment schemes. Any of these people who are under 35 years and have completed one year on a scheme will no longer be eligible for a scheme at the end of this year. Such people will no longer be able to live an independent life or have the means to employ a personal assistant for themselves. This is the reality of cutbacks in CE schemes.

All this is being done for almost no advantage. A single person on a CE scheme earns €149 per week. If such a person loses a place on a scheme, he or she will receive €124 per week unemployment assistance. A person who has pride in his work and is doing useful work in his community is condemned to go back on unemployment assistance for the sake of €25. Can no one at ministerial level see that this is the reality of cutbacks in social employment and community employment schemes?

The cutbacks also rob participants of the pride they had in working for their communities instead of receiving unemployment assistance. In many schemes in villages, towns and rural areas skills such as traditional stone building have been acquired, with professional advice, by people on community employment schemes. Monuments to such schemes will be seen for many years and the people who took part in them will take pride in what they built. Participants in community employment schemes are being robbed of this pride in their communities, work and spirit and of their ability to work instead of drawing unemployment assistance, all for the sake of €25 per week. I do not understand it.

It is all very well for the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, to shed crocodile tears, as he did last week, about cutbacks in CE schemes and leading the Fianna Fáil backbenchers in revolt against them. The real test of whether the Minister of State believes what he said last week or what he was told to say tonight will be when he is asked to vote at 1.30 p.m. tomorrow. Our constituents are not fools. They see what is happening, as does Deputy Fiona O'Malley. In a courageous speech she pointed out the hypocrisy of the Minister of State. He will be tested tomorrow at 1.30 p.m.

I cannot overemphasise the value of working rather than drawing unemployment assistance or the value to communities of seeing people who were on long-term unemployment assistance working and adding to the structure and value of the community in which they live. A person could have no better or prouder task than to add to the value of work in his or her community. I support the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, in his call to the Minister for Finance to see common sense and restore the opportunity to the 5,000 people who will be deprived of the opportunity to work in their communities in the next two or three years.

I compliment the Labour Party on proposing this motion. Like Deputy McCormack and previous speakers, I hope RTE, the Irish Independent and all those who interviewed Fianna Fáil backbenchers last week will be present in the Chamber tomorrow to show on television how these people vote. The Labour Party motion is identical to that proposed at the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting last week. I call on Fianna Fáil backbenchers to vote with us tomorrow and show the Minister for Finance, Tánaiste and Taoiseach that they are serious in their support for CE schemes. If they do so, by tomorrow afternoon we will have all the places on CE schemes replaced. Fianna Fáil backbenchers should put up or shut up and vote with us tomorrow. The media were taken in last week by their claims that they would change this Government measure.

For the first time ever I have been invited to a funeral in my constituency next weekend. The Linenhall arts centre in Castlebar has a number of people working on a FÁS scheme, which will finish on Friday next. There will be a wake and a funeral and they will be buried. That is what the Government wants to do with the living. In Belmullet, the Irish Wheelchair Association had trained people to work with the wheelchair-bound. The elderly people became very fond of them. I ask why these people cannot be retained on FÁS schemes until the Department of Health and Children appoints them on a full-time basis. As Deputy McCormack stated, it is saving the State a fortune. The health board should be providing care assistants but instead the FÁS schemes are being taken away and uncertainty is being created. That is wrong.

There are other communities waiting for FÁS schemes to re-train people and keep them working. These schemes have been a great success, yet the Government has imposed cutbacks of €58 million on the poor. The Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, will not have the courage tomorrow to tax the millionaires.

I am open to correction but I believe that in 1999 there were approximately 200 who earned more than £200,000 per year. There are now over 200,000 people earning that amount. That is a sign of what is happening. The rich have become richer, the middle class are being squeezed and the poor are being taken out by this Government.

I am sick and tired of the hypocrisy of the Progressive Democrats, but they are consistent. They have no understanding of rural communities and of poor people. They were elected to this House by the middle class and the rich to protect those interests. It is the duty of the Opposition to protect the poor, the weak and the sick. Fianna Fáil used to pretend it was the party that looked after the sick, the weak and the poor. I will continue to declare in this House that Fianna Fáil now looks after the Alex Fergusons of this world and Rock of Gibraltar. The animals are better off in this country than the people. It is a disgrace that the Minister allows that to happen and allows the poor, the sick and the weak to be treated in such a fashion. The dietary allowance and the supplementary rent allowance have been taken away. The Government Members then tell the media from the plinth that they will vote against the measures. Fianna Fáil has its opportunity tomorrow to vote with us and protect the FÁS schemes. I am tired of the hypocrisy of this Government and I am sick and tired of how it treats the poor.

We can give the Deputy a literacy grant.

Deputy Ned O'Keeffe said this Government was the most right-wing Thatcherite Government that ever was. At least he is decent and honest enough to say it. He tells the truth. I ask the Fianna Fáil backbenchers to vote to save the FÁS schemes and not to bother with their parliamentary party meeting. I cannot understand how the Minister of State, as a rural Deputy, is allowing this to happen.

I see what is happening to the poor and the underprivileged and they are the ones who should be protected. Agencies such as CORI, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and Barnardos deal with children and with the disadvantaged. The Government wants to see them live in ghettos again. The "Prime Time" programme last night showed what is happening. People should be helped rather than kept down.

I wish to share my time with Deputy Cowley tonight and with another speaker tomorrow. I had the misfortune to become economically active in the 1980s when many of my friends and compatriots chose to emigrate. I chose to stay and my options were various employment schemes such as the national manpower scheme which paid £30 a week. I had no incentive to come off unemployment assistance which at the time was £32 a week. Other schemes at the time were the Youth Employment Agency and the AnCO teamwork scheme which was the precursor of social employment. I was given the opportunity of being active in the economy, gaining work experience and eventually finding full-time employment within my chosen field of community and youth work.

Later in my employment career, I was a community employment scheme supervisor. I have experience from both sides of how participants and organisers of schemes have benefited from the operation of this policy by successive Governments. As a result of my activity in voluntary organisations I have been involved in the supervision of such schemes. I have had a threefold benefit from employment schemes, as a participant, as a supervisor and as someone involved in voluntary organisations. I have seen the benefits in communities and to individuals. I am becoming more angry as I see this Government progressively run down what has stopped being an employment promotion programme and has become a community service programme.

The Green Party argues that the time has come to consider taking the administration of the community employment schemes away from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment because its agenda does not meet the needs of what the scheme is currently used for and its potential—

The Deputy will make them very happy bureaucrats.

This is a Department that for two consecutive years has handed money back to the Exchequer. It has handed back €37 million every year while at the same time cutting down community employment schemes. It has not only cut down the numbers, it has emasculated the criteria by which people qualify for these schemes, making it all but impossible for people who are available but are suddenly deemed not qualifiable in terms of the schemes.

This Government has gone beyond caring about the idea of society. Fianna Fáil was born out of the image of the cumann membership, the party of the small farmers and workers as it claimed at one stage. It is now a party that is not even the mirror image of the Progressive Democrats because they have blended into one party. They sing from the same hymn sheet and they have but the one ethos.

The Deputy may like to believe that but it is not true.

If the Minister of State does not wish to listen to the Opposition Members, he should look at the example of his own constituency and ask himself about Carrigtohill community centre, Youghal resource centre and Killeagh.

They are doing very well under this Government.

If the Minister of State cannot see it in his own constituency, then this Government has lost all hope.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please. Deputy Boyle without interruption.

We have developed a system, even if accidentally, that has filled the void created by the individualism which is sponsored by this Government. At one stage when this country was economically poor, we at least had a system of community support, of a healthy volunteerism which has all but disappeared due to the rampant individualism being practised by this Government. If our social services are to survive and provide the services which the Government is unwilling or unable to provide, then it must continue to support community employment schemes and must do so in a manner that takes the responsibility away from a Department that cares neither for the scheme nor the participants.

On these grounds alone, I argue that the time has come for another Government Department. I would suggest a Department of Community, if it did not have a Minister so obsessed with himself, which would be more focused and with a belief in the idea of community. There must be a change in Government focus. This is a system in which the people of the country believe. They want greater participation in it and they want it to have more resources. If such support is given, there will be not just social benefits but long-term economic benefits also. If those lessons are not learnt by the Government, whatever hope I ever had for it will disappear. I cede to Deputy Cowley.

I am pleased to speak on the motion. Tá áthas orm labhairt ar an rún tábhachtach seo. It is very regrettable that there are cutbacks in community employment schemes. I have lived in rural Ireland for many years and I am a sponsor of a community employment scheme. I can testify to the good work done by CE schemes all over Ireland. The effects of CE schemes are to be seen in every town and village. It has been beneficial to so many people right across Ireland. It has achieved magnificent work in upskilling people and allowing them to take a new pride in their work. For €20 to €30 more, people can be gainfully employed on a community employment scheme.

Debate adjourned.
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