Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 24 Feb 2004

Vol. 580 No. 5

Order Of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 11, the Finance Bill 2004 — Financial Resolutions and No. 12, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a proposal that section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966 shall continue in force for the period ending on 8 March 2005; No. 17, the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licence) Bill 2004, Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 18, Public Service Management (Recruitment and Appointments) Bill 2003, Second Stage (Resumed); No. 19, International Development Association (Amendment) Bill 2003, Second Stage (Resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 11 and 12 shall be decided without debate and in the case of No. 11, Financial Resolutions Nos. 1 and 2 shall be moved together and decided by one question, which shall be put from the Chair. Private Members' business shall be No. 38, motion re the Irish language.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 11 and 12 without debate agreed?

Mr. Kenny

In respect of No. 12, the Minister for Agriculture and Food in reply to Deputy Timmins on a number of occasions has stated he would be happy to look at a code of practice being introduced for the special investigations unit which is central to the implementation of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966. We are not objecting to the issue being taken without debate. However, as the Minister for Agriculture and Food has agreed with Deputy Timmins on a code of practice will the Taoiseach ensure that such a code of practice is introduced in that regard?

Mr. Rabbitte

On the same matter, a Cheann Comhairle, I think it is a matter of the utmost importance that the Taoiseach would give an undertaking to the House on the matter of a code of practice for the special investigation unit at the Department of Agriculture and Food. I believe there are matters——

An Ceann Comhairle

It does not arise at this stage.

Mr. Rabbitte

It does, Sir, on No. 12 because matters ———

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, it does not arise under No. 12.

Mr. Rabbitte

——-will come to attention concerning the method of operation of that unit, founded on emergency legislation without the——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order, we are discussing a proposal on No. 12.

Mr. Rabbitte

I am telling you, Sir, why I am opposed to it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The proposal is that section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966 shall continue in force for the period ending on 8 March 2005. The issue the Deputy is raising now does not arise.

Mr. Rabbitte

I am explaining, Sir, why I am opposing it being taken without debate.

This legislation was introduced in emergency circumstances at the time of the foot and mouth disease. It is a matter of public interest that there be the kind of protocol that Deputy Kenny has raised for the continued workings of the special investigation unit. Many citizens are making complaints to Deputies on all sides of this House about the absence of such a protocol and for that reason I am grateful for being permitted to say that much.

Mr. Boyle

No. 11 allows the Minister for Finance to introduce measures on Committee and Report Stages that he would not otherwise be able to do because of Standing Orders. There is a large area of disagreement among Opposition spokespersons in allowing the Minister to do this without Opposition spokespersons being given the same opportunity to introduce further measures that have been ruled out of order on Committee Stage. On the grounds that we as Opposition spokesperson should be able to properly assess the Finance Bill, this matter should be debated and decided upon by the whole House and not put through on the nod. Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Finance to come in and make those arguments against such a statement in the House rather than rely on the Chairman of the finance committee to ensure the Opposition spokespersons are allowed to make arguments we feel we should make on the Finance Bill.

The Taoiseach

I will raise with the Minister for Agriculture and Food the point that Deputy Kenny made and I will make him aware of Deputy Rabbitte's point also.

On the question of the Finance Bill 2004, financial resolutions, what always happens is that if the Minister for Finance on Committee or Report Stages wants to bring forward an amendment, this provision allows the Minister to bring in a resolution, but that amendment has to be debated. It allows the Minister——

Mr. Boyle

The Opposition is not allowed the same facilities.

The Taoiseach

On the Finance Bill, it has always been the practice that if a Minister wishes to bring forward an amendment — admittedly it is being brought in late — it does allow for it. It must still be debated and Members may have a Second Stage debate on it on Committee Stage, as happens regularly on the Finance Bill.

Question put and declared carried.

Mr. Stagg

On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle, I wish to draw attention again to the difficulty for the Opposition if two unrelated matters are taken together in a vote, where there is no debate. In this case there was agreement on one and not the other but the Opposition is forced to oppose both together.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is currently only one proposal before the House.

Mr. Stagg

I know, that is the point I am making.

Mr. Howlin

We only get the chance to debate one matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Those matters are not being voted on at this stage; they will come before the House separately in due course.

Mr. Howlin

There could be six proposals on one issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, but they will come before the House independently.

Mr. Kenny

I acknowledge that the Government Whip and the Government have seen the light in that applying the guillotine to legislation will no longer be a feature of the Order of Business.

Mr. Stagg

Due to pressure.

Mr. Kenny

When will legislation in respect of electronic voting be published? That legislation is——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point.

Mr. Kenny

I am not sure what tablets the Cheann Comhairle took this morning but he is out of the blocks faster than Carl Lewis ever was.

Mr. Durkan

The Ceann Comhairle got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.

Mr. Kenny

I ask that no guillotine apply to this legislation which Deputies from all sides wish to tease out and so that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, will have an opportunity to answer all technical questions which need to be answered.

The Taoiseach

As I stated earlier, the heads of the Bill are currently being prepared in the Department and will be given to the Attorney General. I hope we can bring the Bill forward as soon as possible.

Mr. Rabbitte

We need to know from the Taoiseach if the Cabinet has decided to proceed, when the Bill will be published, when it will be introduced in the House and if it will have the support of both parties in Government? The Progressive Democrats, at all levels, from the Leader to Deputy Fiona O'Malley, have expressed the same reservations as parties on this side of the House. Deputy O'Flynn and several other prominent Deputies are not here——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order.

Mr. Rabbitte

——but they are watching their monitors in their offices. They are as concerned about this issue as are the Opposition.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte will have an opportunity to debate the matter when it comes before the House.

Mr. Rabbitte

That is what we are trying to establish.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not appropriate for the Deputy to raise the matter on the Order of Business.

Mr. Rabbitte

We are trying to clear our diaries so we will be here for the debate. When will the Bill be brought before the House?

The Taoiseach

As I stated earlier, it will be introduced as soon as possible. I hope not only Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats but other parties will remain consistent in terms of what they supported in the past.

Mr. Quinn

That is dependent on what is in the Bill.

Mr. Timmins

What about directly elected mayors?

An Ceann Comhairle

Please allow Deputy Sherlock to speak.

Mr. Sherlock

When will the pharmacy Bill be introduced to allow us to vent the issues being raised by the Pharmaceutical Society? Is it the Government's intention to introduce a ground rents Bill? If so, what progress has been made in that regard?

Mr. Connaughton

The Government is sure to introduce it this year.

The Taoiseach

Work on drafting the heads of the pharmacy Bill is currently under way. It is expected it will be published during 2004. There is no change in the Government position on the ground rents Bill.

Mr. Stagg

It will be introduced immediately after the——

Mr. Gormley

Does the Taoiseach agree it is disgraceful that Mr. Donald Rumsfeld——

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, that matter is the subject of a question.

Mr. Gormley

——was pictured addressing American troops in Shannon in our neutral place——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order.

Mr. Gormley

I am asking about promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

No, the Deputy is not asking about promised legislation. I am calling Deputy Durkan.

Mr. Gormley

Given that there are a bunch of crazies in the White House, when are we going to bring——

An Ceann Comhairle

I have called Deputy Durkan. I will call Deputy Gormley again in regard to promised legislation.

Mr. Gormley

May I ask a question on promised legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

I will call on the Deputy again later.

Mr. Gormley

A Cheann Comhairle, I do not believe you will call me again.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask that the Deputy resume his seat. I will call on him again regarding promised legislation.

Mr. Gormley

When?

An Ceann Comhairle

Later. I am calling Deputy Durkan now.

Mr. Gormley

The Chair will call me again later?

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, I will call the Deputy on promised legislation.

Mr. Durkan

On promised legislation and, in the context of the proposed legislation on electronic voting, will the Taoiseach say how much has been spent on the promotion of electronic voting?

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business. I am calling Deputy Moynihan-Cronin.

Mr. Durkan

Yes, it does. How much money has been spent on the promotion of electronic voting?

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Durkan

Has sufficient money been allocated for its promotion or will further legislation be introduced to provide for more funding in that regard?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Durkan, please resume your seat.

Mr. Connaughton

It is a touchy subject, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Durkan should resume his seat or I will have to ask him to leave the House.

Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin

Will the Taoiseach advise the House of the up to date position of the Disability Bill? Has it been put on the back burner? It was to be a priority when we returned from the Christmas recess.

The Taoiseach

It is a priority. A meeting took place last week between officials and the disability legislation group.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Joe Higgins.

Mr. Quinn

The Cheann Comhairle might allow the Taoiseach to finish his reply.

The Taoiseach

A number of points made at that meeting are now being taken into account.

Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin

When will the Bill be published?

Mr. J. Higgins

While the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, was getting the hang of his chopsticks in exotic locations last week——

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. J. Higgins

We hope he did not fumble as badly over the chopsticks as he has on electronic voting.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must ask a question appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. J. Higgins

More local councils are lining up to vote down the draconian stealth tax called development levies. Is it the Government's intention to bring forward an amendment to the planning Act to provide proper financing from the Exchequer for the necessary infrastructure for new housing areas.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised?

The Taoiseach

No.

Mr. Deenihan

We were all shocked during the week to learn of the resignation of Mr. Pascal Taggart, one of the most successful chairmen of any State board here. His chairmanship led to unprecedented success in this industry——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must ask a question appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Deenihan

Will the Taoiseach or the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism make a statement in this House this evening——

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business. I am calling Deputy Howlin.

Mr. Durkan

It is relevant.

Mr. Deenihan

The Taoiseach wants to reply.

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the Minister responsible. I am calling Deputy Howlin.

Mr. Deenihan

This is entirely unprecedented.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is unprecedented for a Member to remain on his feet to raise a matter not appropriate to the Order of Business. Please allow Deputy Howlin to speak.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Deenihan should resume his seat. The matter raised is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Deenihan

I will have an opportunity to raise it tomorrow.

Mr. Howlin

I wish to ask about two separate matters. First, the Tanáiste gave a commitment that promised health and safety legislation would encompass the most recent Law Reform Commission report to provide for a new offence of corporate manslaughter. When will such legislation be introduced? Will one Bill be the vehicle by which the new offence is created and when will it come before the House?

The Taoiseach indicated there may be an alteration in the social welfare code regarding the rights of citizens of new members states joining the EU on 1 May 2004. Has a decision been taken in that regard and if so, what is that decision?

The Taoiseach

The safety, health and welfare at work Bill will be published soon.

Mr. Howlin

When?

The Taoiseach

It will be published this session. On the second matter, the changes will be part of the social welfare Bill currently before the House.

Mr. Howlin

Have the changes been made?

The Taoiseach

No, not yet.

Mr. Connolly

Due to pressure of space at Cavan General Hospital, a by-room is used as a recovery area——

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business. I am calling Deputy Crawford.

Mr. Connolly

When will the nurses and midwives Bill be introduced?

The Taoiseach

It will be introduced some time this year.

Mr. Crawford

We were promised a health ombudsman or health complaints Bill during the last session. What is the current position in this regard given the serious problems being experienced in the Cavan-Monaghan area?

The Taoiseach

The matter will be covered by the health Act.

Ms Shortall

Last week, I asked the Taoiseach about the State airports Bill and he said he understood it was ready for publication. Media reports emanating from the Department of Transport at the weekend indicated there were major legal obstacles to implementing Deputy Brennan's hunch about Aer Rianta. Will the Taoiseach give a realistic time frame for the introduction of that legislation?

The Taoiseach

As I told Deputy Shortall last week, as I understand it the legislation is ready but discussions between the Department of Transport, management and the relevant unions are ongoing, and the legislation will not be published until those talks are finalised.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Gormley.

Ms Shortall

On a point of order, the Taoiseach has said the legislation is ready while the Minister has said the legal obstacles are being worked through.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach is answering on the Order of Business.

Ms Shortall

May I have clarification? There are two different answers coming from the Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach answers on the Order of Business.

Mr. Gormley

I wish to ask a question about the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty in the context of the disgraceful visit of Mr. Rumsfeld to address troops over the weekend.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach to reply on legislation.

Mr. Gormley

Does the Taoiseach agree with me on that? Does he also agree that our neutrality is gone at this stage?

An Ceann Comhairle

The first question was in order.

The Taoiseach

The draft heads of the Bill are being prepared in the Department and it is expected they will go to Government in March.

Mr. M. Higgins

When will the national monuments legislation be brought before the House? Will the Taoiseach use his influence with the Minister for Foreign Affairs to get him to read the letter he wrote to The Irish Times to the House or the Committee on Foreign Affairs to allow us to comment on it?

The Taoiseach

The national monuments Bill is due later this year.

Mr. M. Higgins

What about persuading the Minister for Foreign Affairs to read his letter?

Ms O. Mitchell

It emerged some months ago that existing legislation would not allow health and safety officers to enforce the smoking ban. It was suggested at the time that the Tánaiste would bring forward legislation to enable them to do so. Is that legislation forthcoming or will enforcement of the ban to be left to the 40 environmental health officers?

The Taoiseach

There is just one health and safety Bill to be brought forward during this session.

Ms O. Mitchell

Does that mean only environmental health officers will enforce the ban?

The Taoiseach

I am not dealing with the detail. All I am saying is that there is only one health and safety Bill coming forward.

Mr. Gilmore

Committee Stage of the Residential Tenancies Bill 2003 was completed last week and Report Stage is due to be taken. Given that private tenants have been waiting for this legislation for almost four years, will the Taoiseach assure me that the Bill will be given priority over any other being brought forward by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government?

The Taoiseach

While the Bill is priority legislation, the House must deal with those Bills which have fixed time constraints, such as the Finance Bill and the Social Welfare Bill.

Mr. Gilmore

What about the rights of tenants who have been waiting four years for this legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Gilmore is out of order. The Taoiseach has already replied. I call Deputy Gay Mitchell.

Mr. Cullen

It is already established on a non-statutory basis and functioning.

Mr. Gilmore

The Minister should not tell me about the rights of tenants who have been waiting four years.

Mr. Cullen

Deputy Gilmore should not mislead the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Minister to allow Deputy Gay Mitchell to ask his question.

Mr. G. Mitchell

I have never said anything of a racist or anti-immigrant nature in this House, nor do I intend to now. I have a question on the Health Act which concerns the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Health and Children. Maternity hospitals have expressed concern about overcrowding as a result of people coming from abroad to have babies here. It is an issue which must be addressed in a balanced and considered manner.

The Taoiseach

Legislation is due this year, but it does not deal with this issue. There is an issue to be dealt with and the Government has given it consideration. We will have to come up with a resolution on it. I agree with the Deputy who is aware that substantial numbers of people are coming here. Almost 25% of mothers giving birth in maternity hospitals in the State come here from abroad. They come here purely for the birth before returning to their countries of origin. People can only conclude that this is an issue related to citizenship. We must try to deal with it.

Mr. Crowe

Given the obvious public concern about safety on public transport, when will the Railway Safety Bill 2001 again come on stream?

The Taoiseach

The Bill is awaiting Report Stage in the House.

Mr. Naughten

It has been waiting for 12 months.