Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 24 Feb 2004

Vol. 580 No. 5

Private Notice Questions.

Dublin Bus Accident.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call on the Deputies who tabled questions to the Minister for Transport in the order in which they submitted their questions to my office.

Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Transport about the circumstances surrounding the accident on Wellington Quay, Dublin, on 21 February 2004; the concerns raised with management of Dublin Bus which may have helped to prevent the accident; the investigations that have commenced and their timescale for completion; the measures being put in place to ensure that such a tragedy is not repeated; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Transport if he will report on the investigation being held into the accident in Dublin on 21 February 2004 which involved a Dublin Bus vehicle and left five people dead and many more injured; if a review of the location of or safety procedures at bus stops will be carried out; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Transport if he will report on the tragic events of 21 February 2004 in which five people lost their lives and many others were injured in Dublin’s city centre; the progress of the investigations; and if safety complaints had been received by Dublin Bus regarding the stops on Wellington Quay.

Minister for Transport (Mr. Brennan)

On 21 February 2004, an accident occurred at Wellington Quay, Dublin, which involved a bus operated by Dublin Bus. In the accident, five people lost their lives and a number of others were injured. Like everybody in this House, I extend my condolences to the relatives and friends of the deceased. I assure them that a full and thorough investigation is being carried out into the circumstances surrounding this tragic accident. The investigation will be completed in the shortest possible timeframe.

The primary immediate investigative role in the case of road accidents is vested in the Garda Síochána. Priority in such an investigation must be given to the determination of the causes of the accident and, in particular, to the determination of whether a breach of the road traffic law contributed to the occurrence. The Garda is the body empowered to make such a determination. Investigations by the Garda into the cause of last Saturday's accident have already begun.

Dublin Bus has launched its own company inquiry into the incident to determine its cause and the circumstances surrounding it. The inquiry will be chaired by Arnold O'Byrne, a board member of Dublin Bus, and will include Alan Westwell, managing director of Dublin Bus, Shane Doyle, chief engineer of Dublin Bus, Mick Matthews, operations manager of Dublin Bus, Joe Hogan, risk manager of Dublin Bus, Wolfgang Arnold, engineering and infrastructure director of Stuttgart Transport, Germany, Simon Brown, former group engineer of London Buses Limited, UK, Hugo van Wesemael, former director general of de Lijn Transport, Flanders, Belgium, and Dr. Richard Lambourn, lead investigator of the Transport Research Laboratory, UK. The team will investigate the circumstances of the accident to establish its causes and any contributory factors. It will also make recommendations to prevent a recurrence. It is expected that a preliminary report of the inquiry's findings and recommendations will be submitted to the board of Dublin Bus within six weeks. This will provide an opportunity to assess all the issues arising from the accident, including safety at bus stops.

Dublin Bus had received a small number of complaints relating to safety and environmental issues at the stop in question. These complaints related mainly to the night environment in the vicinity of Temple Bar, public lighting, bus shelters, vehicle noise and the pedestrian environment. Since the terminal was relocated to Wellington Quay, there has been no reported incident of personal injury associated with its location. It would not be helpful to speculate at this time as to the causes of the accident. I will await the findings of the two investigations before commenting in detail on the matter. In the meantime, I am assured by Dublin Bus that all reasonable safety measures are in place in the operation of its services. avail of this opportunity to thank the emergency services and the Garda for their speedy response to the events of last Saturday and pay tribute to Dublin Bus for the professional and compassionate manner in which it is trying to deal with this awful tragedy.

Mr. Naughten

This is the worst tragedy in the history of Dublin Bus which has had a good safety record and has improved in recent years. This was an awful tragedy for the families involved, which I saw at first hand on Saturday. I avail of this opportunity to extend my sympathy and that of the Fine Gael Party to the families and friends of the deceased. I avail of the opportunity also to recognise the role of the fire crews, the ambulance service and the Garda who acted swiftly.

Will the Minister agree it is critically important that the families are kept fully informed and updated on the progress of both the Garda investigation and the Dublin Bus investigation? Will he agree it is important that the Dublin Bus inquiry is seen to be kept at arm's length from the company? Is it advisable that the Health and Safety Authority and/or public transport user groups have an input into the investigation? What information has been provided to Dublin Bus concerning the safety of the bus stop? Much debate has taken place on this particular bus stop and the location of bus stops throughout Dublin. I acknowledge it is unhelpful to speculate at this point in time until a full investigation has taken place. Perhaps the Minister would elaborate further on it.

Mr. Brennan

I appreciate what the Deputy has said. Every effort is being made by the company and the Garda to keep relatives and everybody else fully informed as the investigations proceed. I do not know if it is necessary to ask that the inquiry by Dublin Bus be at arm's length. There are two parallel inquiries. The Garda is conducting its own inquiry which is the normal procedure in fatal accidents. That is a very thorough investigation and follows the usual procedure. The company has brought in three or four experts from abroad and its process will be entirely transparent. They will deal with it from a company point of view.

The Deputy asked about involving the Health and Safety Authority. I presume it can take advice and that it will be offered willingly in this tragic circumstance.

In regard to the safety of bus stops, it is not helpful to anybody at this stage to try to draw conclusions as to the safety or otherwise of the stop. The Deputy is not doing that but I have seen it in some commentary. The procedure for choosing bus stops has existed since 1961. Ultimately the Garda determines the location of a bus stop by a statutory notice. It does that in consultation with the bus company and the local authority. The Road Traffic Act 2002 provides for the transfer of that authority to a local authority some time in the future. That has not happened and that point of view has not been considered just yet. The law since 1961 to the present day is that the Garda makes that determination. It does so after an assessment of the safety aspect. I am assured by the Garda, the company and the local authority that the normal procedure for this particular location was fully gone through. There are standard procedures which had to be gone through. As a result, the Garda approved the location of the stop. There are many similar locations around the country, all of which have come through the same procedure.

I spoke with the Garda Commissioner a few hours ago. He assured me he has dedicated a substantial number of personnel to the case and said many people had come forward. He wanted to thank those who are being interviewed. He indicated to me that one witness had confirmed that the driver was in the seat of the bus that went forward. The Garda regards that as a very useful piece of confirmation. He pointed out that the interviews with the bus drivers which have taken place are preliminary and that full interviews will take place as soon as possible. Until such time as those interviews are concluded it is not expected that we will get a clearer view of what precisely happened.

Ms Shortall

On behalf of the Labour Party I express our deepest sympathy to the families and friends of those who lost their lives on Saturday and those who are seriously injured. Our thoughts are with them and the staff of Dublin Bus who were involved and their families.

I wish to be associated with the expressions of appreciation for the work of the emergency services in very difficult circumstances on Saturday and the admirable way in which Dublin Bus has handled this difficult and tragic situation. Dublin Bus expects a report from its investigation in about six weeks. When does the Garda expect to be in a position to complete its inquiries and to report to the Minister?

I appeal to the Minister to give consideration to the manner in which he will deal with releasing that information to the families. When they have buried their loved ones, their priority will be to find out exactly what happened. It is of the utmost importance that they be told as soon as possible the outcome of those investigations.

Since this incident on Saturday, I have had correspondence and calls from members of the public expressing concern about safety issues, including Wellington Quay, and other locations where bus stops, temporary bus stops, or temporary termini have been relocated as a result of the Luas works and various other construction works around town, including those on O'Connell Street. What are the criteria used for identifying locations for temporary or permanent bus stops and termini? We all appreciate the difficulties in finding a location. Can the Minister establish the criteria used by Dublin Bus, the Garda and Dublin City Council in identifying locations? As a result of the tragedy on Saturday and concerns raised in the public arena since then about other locations, will the Minister arrange for a safety audit to be carried out on all bus stops and, particularly, termini in the Dublin city area to ensure that, as far as possible, every effort has been made to ensure other tragedies do not occur in the difficult situation in the city centre?

Mr. Brennan

Certainly I will ensure that information is made available to the families in a sensitive and timely manner, whether from the company or the Garda. I know they will do that in any event but I will ensure it happens in a delicate and timely fashion. I do not know the timescale of the Garda inquiry in these matters. The Garda Commissioner assured me he has assigned a significant number of the force to this inquiry. Therefore, I expect good progress. As soon as the interviews with the drivers are concluded we should have a better view of what happened.

I have explained the criteria about the location of bus stops. It is a routine matter which goes on day in, day out. The local authorities, the Garda and the company discuss, almost on a daily basis, where bus stops should be located. The criteria used will be in regard to space, safety, patronage, the type of traffic in the area and similar issues. The Deputy rightly points out that the road space available often limits the options available to them. However, I know that the three authorities make every effort to put bus stops at very safe places.

I do not want to comment on the accident other than to say that the relevant diagrams and charts of what happened suggest it was unique in that a particular bus ended up on the inside of another bus when there was, apparently, only five or six feet between the stopped bus and the footpath. I have never seen anything like the unique situation detailed in the diagrams. The great unanswered question is why that second bus apparently found itself moving along the inside of a parked bus, with people on the left, and, in the course of that, causing such awful trauma and tragedy. It is unique and I will have more information when investigations are concluded.

I want again to be associated with thanks to the gardaí, accident and emergency services, ambulance personnel and members of the fire brigade who did a difficult but magnificent job. Dublin Bus was also tremendous. It appointed a dedicated person for each family involved and contacted and provided counselling for families. It has confirmed it will cover all necessary medical expenses and deal with the financial issues urgently and in a caring manner, and I thank it for that.

I am aware that bus drivers availed of counselling services over the weekend. It was a traumatic experience for other members of Dublin Bus who either observed the scene, heard about it or know those involved personally, and I thank them also.

Mr. Crowe

I take this opportunity to express my condolences to the families of the dead and injured. In particular, I pay tribute to the emergency services and Dublin Bus. A number of questions have been asked. As to whether it is unhelpful to discuss the location of the bus stop and so on, as the Minister stated, the media are running with many stories in regard to complaints about the location from Leixlip councillors to Dublin Bus. The Minister rightly states that we are concerned about the accident and do not want a reoccurrence. However, many listening to this debate or travelling home this evening to their families and friends want reassurances from the Minister that everything in his power will be done to ensure that a similar accident does not occur.

While the Minister says he is fully supportive of safety measures, which we all accept, does he not accept that many people see a contradiction in the sense that, on the one hand, we are talking about safety and, on the other, the budget for public transport safety was cut back by 28%. I am not trying to make a political point but people are worried and do not want a reoccurrence of such an accident.

As regards public safety, the Railway Safety Bill--——

An Ceann Comhairle

A question, please.

Mr. Crowe

The question concerns what the Minister can say or do to reassure the travelling public that a similar accident will not occur. Can he give assurances that he will do his utmost in this regard and, if it is a matter of spending more money, that more will be spent? Can the Minister reassure the public, in particular those who travel on buses and their families?

Mr. Brennan

Dublin Bus has an absolutely marvellous safety record. Findings from the UK in regard to accidents involving buses and coaches on urban roads show a rate of 4.3 fatalities per 100 million vehicle kilometres. The average for Dublin Bus over the past five or six years is 2.6 fatalities. Even one accident or fatality is too many but, by international standards, Dublin Bus has a marvellous safety record. That is the best assurance I can give.

In regard to this case, the driver principally involved in Saturday's crash had 20 years' experience. I can confirm to the House that he had clear blood and urine samples and had been fully rested before going on duty. Dublin Bus is a very safe company with high training standards, into which it puts much time and effort. The complaints about this particular stop referred mostly to the night-time environment, public lighting, noise and pedestrian access, rather than its precise architecture.

Mr. Naughten

I acknowledge the Minister's comment that the results of the investigation will be sensitively dealt with when presented to the families involved. It is critically important that those appointed to liaise between the families and Dublin Bus keep the families updated on the progress in regard to both investigations. While the focus of the families over the coming days will be on the burial of their loved ones, after that they will want answers and it is important they are kept updated. I ask the Minister to ensure this is done on an ongoing basis rather than having them wait until the end of the investigations.

Will the Minister ensure that a copy of the Dublin Bus report, when complete, is presented to the Oireachtas committee on transport? Will he give a commitment to the House that any recommendations which come from the Dublin Bus or Garda reports will be implemented by Government as swiftly as possible so that we can ensure there is not a similar incident in future?

Mr. Brennan

I reconfirm that the families will be kept fully informed. I appreciate that they want answers and, in particular, I take the Deputy's point that they should not have to wait until the end of the inquiries but should be kept updated on an ongoing basis. I will discuss that with the Garda and Dublin Bus to ensure it happens, as it should. The Dublin Bus report will be published as soon as it is completed. Recommendations which come forward will, of course, be implemented.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

On behalf of the Green Party, I extend our sympathies to the families of those who died in this terrible accident and to those recovering from it. I commend the emergency services and the staff of Dublin Bus on the manner in which they reacted at the scene of the accident and since then, which is to their credit in tragic and difficult circumstances.

There are genuine concerns in regard to traffic safety issues on the Quays in Dublin and the one-way system throughout the city centre. Questioning and discussion on that would be better served on another day and, therefore, I will not deal with general issues regarding speed on the Quays and elsewhere.

The committee which Dublin Bus set up to investigate this incident does not include a representative of Dublin City Council, which might have been wise given that the city council is responsible for the design of the street and traffic management. While we do not know the particular circumstances of this accident, does the Minister consider it would be wise for a city council official to be active on the committee, so that traffic management and road design issues are taken into account when the committee is carrying out its work. It might be a step in the right direction.

Mr. Brennan

I understand the Deputy's thinking here but it would be wrong to try to set up a commission with different bodies like the Health and Safety Authority, the city council, the Garda and possibly the NRA also. The company has decided, at my request, to have its own company investigation and it has brought in overseas experts to assist with that investigation. It is as well to leave them to carry out their inquiry and publish their findings alongside the Garda investigation. That is more appropriate. The company will of course have to consult fully with the city council, the Health and Safety Authority and any other agency which needs to be consulted. It is not that I have any objection to the involvement of the city council or the Health and Safety Authority; it is quite the opposite. Those bodies will be consulted and could be very helpful but it is more that Dublin Bus, with my support, wishes to have its own inquiry into what happened with its buses.

Ms Shortall

We all appreciate the difficulties in the city centre in recent years with the Luas works and major developments in O'Connell Street. There has been significant disruption of bus services in the city and I have had many complaints from people since Saturday about the condition of various bus stops around town. Calls to radio programmes bear out those complaints, as do photographs in today's Irish Independent which show the precarious conditions in Middle Abbey Street, with people queuing for buses between builders’ barriers.

Will the Minister consider reviewing the safety criteria used by the Garda, the city council and Dublin Bus when selecting locations for bus stops given the tight situation in town? Will he also arrange a safety audit of those city centre stops which have been moved on a temporary basis? Perhaps he should look at the possibility of additional safety measures, such as barriers, in order to cater for temporary arrangements which are potentially dangerous.

Mr. Brennan

I would be happy to have the Department review the safety criteria used by Dublin Bus, the local authority and the Garda. I laid out those criteria earlier and I will ask the Department of Transport to review them, which is something we should do in the normal course of business.

On the issue of an audit, I will ask the various agencies to satisfy themselves that existing bus stops are within safety limits. The Deputy knows that all over the country there are situations which could be improved, such as narrow streets with heavy traffic, including buses and trucks with big wing mirrors sticking out at the sides. When people all over the country saw this accident they probably thought of other dangerous places. I will ask all the agencies to review the locations and to satisfy themselves that the original decision to sign off on those locations still holds from a safety point of view.

I want to do this in a spirit of common sense so that those agencies can reassure themselves that their original decisions were good rather than doing so from the perspective of a major investigation. I do not want to alarm people. Current bus stop locations have gone through the process I mentioned and have been deemed safe, but with increasing traffic and narrow roads in certain areas, everyone must be continually vigilant.

Mr. J. Higgins

While this appalling tragedy occurred at a bus stop and might be considered a freak accident, does the Minister agree that it raises the question of the safety of thousands of pedestrians on crowded sidewalks in busy parts of Dublin and other built up areas around the country? This terrible event happened at a bus stop, but does the Minister agree that in a situation where one has fast-moving traffic — trucks, buses and cars — moving one or two feet away from crowded footpaths, with no protection for pedestrians apart from a raised sidewalk of a few inches, there is the potential for similar or worse tragedies occurring at any time? Does he agree that the new features coming to Dublin's streets, Luas and on-street trams, unfortunately mean more hazards for pedestrians? Does he agree that the question of the safe separation of areas frequented by large groups of pedestrians, particularly sidewalks, from fast-moving traffic is a very urgent matter? Will his Department give this problem urgent consideration with a view to action?

Mr. Brennan

The Deputy raises issues which concern us all. I am sure there are many locations around the country where people are worried about their safety. The Deputy echoed my comments on the extent of traffic and the significant increase in the number of vehicles in the country. Some design features on these HGVs and buses, such as extended side mirrors, combined with narrow streets and the fact that everybody is rushing around, mean that there will always be dangerous situations.

In response to Deputy Shortall, I have undertaken to ask the Department of Transport to review the safety criteria for the location of bus stops and whether it is still satisfied with the criteria used to choose those locations. Pedestrian fatalities are increasing, which is worrying, particularly the number of such fatalities among road death figures. Analysis of any period, whether one month or six, shows a growing trend of pedestrians being injured as opposed to the head-on car crashes on country roads that we used to think of. I am conscious of this and we will review this matter in as far as we can with the Health and Safety Authority and the various other agencies.

I also take the point about Luas, which will be another consideration. The Luas will be passing every five or six minutes and people will have to be vigilant. We will make every effort to inform them about the safety aspects of Luas and I take the Deputy's point.