Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Feb 2004

Vol. 580 No. 6

Order Of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be No. a1, Civil Registration Bill 2003 — Amendments from the Seanad; No. 20, Private Security Services Bill 2001 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages, to adjourn at 1.30 p.m. if not previously concluded; and No. 3, Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2004 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m. Private Members' Business shall be No. 38, motion re Irish language, resumed, to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Kenny

I am pleased the Government Whip has continued the process of not guillotining legislation, for which she is to be commended. On the Government's announcement yesterday to proceed with electronic voting, I ask the Taoiseach about the legislation proposed. Will the Government consider consulting the Leaders of the Opposition parties about appointments to the independent panel, if it is to have any measure of independence and trust? Second, if the panel were to recommend, on the basis of its assessment of the proposal——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order. He is going well beyond what is appropriate on the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny

I will finish in 15 seconds.

An Ceann Comhairle

I suggest that the Deputy submit a question on the matter.

Mr. Hogan

The Taoiseach might like to answer the question.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have an Order of Business where people ask questions about everything.

Mr. Kenny

The Taoiseach can make a recommendation, based on his best assessment, that the matter should be deferred. Will the Government accept the recommendations of the panel whatever they may be?

An Ceann Comhairle

That issue may be raised when the Bill comes before the House or it can be raised by way of a question to the Taoiseach. It is not appropriate to the Order of Business which just deals with when legislation comes before the House. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Allen

The first question is reasonable.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is a reasonable question, which is why I suggest it should be submitted in a structured way. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Kenny

I am asking the Taoiseach——

(Interruptions).

Mr. Durkan

The Taoiseach wants to answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on the matter. Leaders' Questions was introduced in this House to facilitate Members who have questions such as the Deputy's. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Kenny

On a point of order, is it in order that the Taoiseach be consulted by Opposition parties?

An Ceann Comhairle

Of course it is in order as long as it is done at the right time and in the right place.

Mr. Kenny

Why am I being ruled out of order then?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Allen

A Cheann Comhairle, you have not allowed my leader——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must not interrupt his leader.

Mr. Durkan

The Taoiseach wants to answer.

Mr. Kenny

Why am I being ruled out of order?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am ruling the Deputy out of order because the matter is not appropriate on the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny

It is.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Allen

On a point of order, legislation is promised regarding electronic voting which will incorporate the appointment of an independent electoral commission.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Allen

A Cheann Comhairle, you have not heard my point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not a point of order. A point of order deals with Standing Orders and how they are implemented. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Allen

Please listen to my point of order. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will be announcing the appointees to the commission before the legislation is introduced.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order, Deputy. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, we cannot go on in this fashion.

Mr. Durkan

I do not intend to go on. I am trying to make a point. The point raised by Deputy Kenny is a valid question pertaining to——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has ruled on the matter. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Mr. Durkan

The Chair may be wrong.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is not wrong in this instance. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Mr. Durkan

The Chair may be wrong when the Taoiseach wants to answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. If there is an orchestrated——

Mr. Durkan

I ask for your assistance, a Cheann Comhairle, to make one last point. If this is how you intend to run the business, you are essentially ruling the Opposition out of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

No, Deputy——

Mr. Durkan

You are impeding us in our job as an Opposition.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is obliged to implement Standing Orders. The Deputy is a party Whip and if he wishes to change the Standing Order, the Chair will be only too delighted to implement the new Standing Order. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Durkan

The Taoiseach wants to answer the question and you, a Cheann Comhairle, are refusing to allow him to do so.

Mr. Allen

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

If it is not a point of order, the Chair will have to take action.

Mr. Allen

It is a point of order. How can a commission appointed by the Government be independent?

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not a point of order. The Deputy must resume his seat.

Mr. Allen

How can it be independent?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume his seat or leave the House.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume his seat. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Rabbitte

Will the Taoiseach say when the Bill to facilitate the implementation of electronic voting will be before the House? If it is the case that the Government is supporting the Labour Party motion introduced last night and endorsed by Fine Gael, I thank the Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, that does not arise at this stage.

Mr. Rabbitte

I am trying to establish this because the record is difficult to follow. It shows that the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, proposed the Sinn Féin amendment but, unfortunately, it does not record the Minister. I was here and I had great difficulty following him anyway. I am trying to find out whether the Government is supporting the motion to have Irish enshrined as an official language of the European Union? If so, will the Taoiseach say when he intends to initiate that procedure with the Commission?

The Taoiseach

On the first question, the legislation is being given priority. Obviously we want to introduce the Bill as quickly as possible. I do not have the date, but it will be dealt with as quickly as possible. It is a very short Bill, the heads of which are being prepared this week in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I hope it will be with the Attorney General before the end of the week.

On the second question, there is no Government amendment to tonight's motion.

Mr. Rabbitte

Does that mean the Government is supporting the motion endorsed by the three parties? Why is it so coy? We spent all night last night trying to find out from the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, where he stood and at the end of 30 minutes we did not know.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on the issue now. Perhaps on Private Members' Business tonight——

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister of State, Deputy Tim O'Malley, came in and said that he thought they were voting against the motion.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Sargent.

Mr. Rabbitte

We are entitled to know whether there will be a division.

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter would normally come up on Private Members' Business. It is not a matter for the Order of Business.

Mr. Rabbitte

I accept——

An Ceann Comhairle

I allowed the Deputy's question. The Taoiseach answered it and I have now called Deputy Sargent. We cannot have a debate on the issue because time has been allocated for debate later tonight.

Mr. Rabbitte

I do not want a debate. I merely want to ask the Taoiseach if he and his Government are supporting the motion.

An Ceann Comhairle

That question has been asked. I call Deputy Sargent.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Sargent

Tá cuma ar an scéal nach mbeidh vóta ar an gceist anocht. Is cúis áthais í sin agus, le cúnamh Dé, beidh an Rialtas ag gníomhú dá réir. May I ask about promised legislation? During Taoiseach's questions we discussed a number of issues related to the cross-departmental body on infrastructure. I hope the buildings control Bill will ensure that building regulations can become more energy efficient. More than 60,000 units were built last year without the energy efficiency required.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a statement on that matter now.

Mr. Sargent

I want to highlight the urgency of the Bill and the action needed.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point.

The Taoiseach

There are 55 heads to the buildings controls Bill and they have been approved. The Bill has been passed for drafting and it is hoped it will ready in the summer depending on other priorities.

Mr. Gilmore

I heard the Taoiseach say the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is giving priority to the promised Bill on electronic voting. Am I to understand from that, that the Minister is giving priority to that Bill over the drafting of Report Stage amendments to the Residential Tenancies Bill to give rights to private sector tenants? The Bill was published last May and it has only now completed Committee Stage, some three years after the Commission on the Private Rented Sector reported. Do I understand the Taoiseach correctly that the Minister's priority currently is to draft legislation on electronic voting rather than address the four year wait for legislation to provide for the rights of tenants?

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not promised legislation.

The Taoiseach

The Residential Tenancies Bill has been ordered for Report Stage. I understand the Bill is to be taken in the House some time in March.

Mr. Gilmore

Arising from that, if that Bill is to be taken some time in March, can the Taoiseach indicate if the Bill on electronic voting will be taken before or after that Bill?

The Taoiseach

The Bill is not published yet so I cannot indicate that.

Mr. Gilmore

What is the answer?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy got an answer to his question.

Mr. Durkan

The Ceann Comhairle might be able to help me out on this occasion. I tabled a question to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government apropos of electronic voting and other matters asking about contracts or procurements funded by his Department to which I got a reply which states that it would take a disproportionate amount of time to compile this information——

An Ceann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question appropriate to legislation?

Mr. Durkan

This question is appropriate to legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not and neither is it appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Durkan

The reply goes on to state that it would necessitate examination of material over a seven year period.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Durkan

How can I get an answer to that question? The Ceann Comhairle might be able to help me out to stop my blood pressure going up.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy wishes to contact the office of the Ceann Comhairle, I will be glad to assist him——

Mr. Durkan

Has the Minister taken a vow of silence or is he sulking?

An Ceann Comhairle

——but as of now I cannot under the provisions of Standing Orders.

Mr. Durkan

Why does the Minister not want to answer the question? It is a simple one.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Lynch.

Mr. Durkan

I am sure that with a little encouragement from the Ceann Comhairle, the Minister might be prevailed upon to answer that question.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is obliged to implement Standing Orders.

Ms Lynch

The Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs announced this morning that she will introduce regulations regarding the accession countries, which mark the latest expansion of the EU. Will she include in those regulations——

An Ceann Comhairle

The content of the regulations are not appropriate to the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy submits a question directly to the Minister. Are regulations promised?

The Taoiseach

There are amendments to the Bill.

Ms Lynch

If the regulations are to be introduced as an amendment to the Bill, will the Taoiseach encourage the Minister to amend the Bill in regard to rent allowance——

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business and the Deputy knows that. I call Deputy Michael Higgins. If Deputy Lynch does not resume her seat and allow her colleague Deputy Michael Higgins to speak, I will move on to the next business.

Ms Lynch

——to take the people off the streets whom she has forced on to the streets? Will she ensure that what the Tánaiste wanted will not be part of the legislation——

An Ceann Comhairle

I will have to move on to No. 10.

Ms Lynch

——whereby people who cannot afford private rented accommodation will have to stay at home with their parents?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am moving on to the next business. I call Deputy Michael Higgins.

Mr. M. Higgins

With regard to the amendments to the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, to which the Taoiseach has referred, will a parallel amendment be made to the legislation governing the European Convention on Human Rights, which would appear to be necessary, if what the Minister for Social Welfare announced this morning is to have legal effect?

The Taoiseach

I do not think so, but the amendments will be brought forward in the next few days.

Mr. J. Higgins

On secondary legislation, a major problem has arisen with the rapid growth of new communities around the suburbs of Dublin where thousands of eligible voters who are not on the initial Register of Electors——

An Ceann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mr. J. Higgins

I have to explain very briefly the issue; it is an important one.

Mr. M. Higgins

It is important.

An Ceann Comhairle

What promised legislation is the secondary legislation?

Mr. J. Higgins

It relates to secondary legislation. To get on the supplemental Register of Electors before the local and European elections, thousands of people would be required to make a pilgrimage to the Garda station to get their applications stamped, which is not a requirement to get on the first phase of the register. That requirement is a major barrier to thousands of people registering on the electoral register.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am moving on. I call Deputy Costello.

Mr. J. Higgins

I am asking a perfectly valid question.

An Ceann Comhairle

About what promised secondary legislation is the Deputy asking?

Mr. J. Higgins

I am asking the Taoiseach if he will examine the secondary legislation to change that requirement.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business; only promised secondary legislation is appropriate. I call Deputy Costello.

Mr. J. Higgins

In view of the Taoiseach's programme for Government, an objective of which is to increase electoral participation, will he look into this and bring forward legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the appropriate Minister.

Mr. J. Higgins

The Taoiseach is responsible for the overall——

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy wishes to submit a question it will be directed to the appropriate Minister. I call Deputy Costello.

Mr. J. Higgins

Will the Ceann Comhairle allow the Taoiseach to make a brief response?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, because if I do, I will have to allow every Deputy in the House to ask about any matter that is not promised legislation.

Mr. J. Higgins

Is legislation promised in that regard?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised?

The Taoiseach

Legislation is not promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

Legislation is not promised. I call Deputy Costello.

Mr. Costello

I refer to the proposed programme of Bills that will be published this session. I note the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has five new Bills to be published — that is in addition to his 30 plus Bills listed on the paper.

Mr. McDowell

We are not debating them now.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Minister to allow Deputy Costello to make his point.

Mr. Costello

We will shortly discuss Report Stage of a 2001 Bill from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, which is two and a half years old.

An Ceann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mr. Costello

Can the Taoiseach indicate when the corpus of justice legislation will be addressed?

The Taoiseach

There is always a number of the justice Bills before the House. I agree with my constituency colleague that if we spent more time here discussing legislation, we would not have all these outstanding Bills.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister and his colleagues appear to have forgotten completely what they were like when they were on this side of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to allow his colleague, Deputy Seán Ryan to ask a question appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Gilmore

They will return to this side of House the very soon.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Seán Ryan should not be deflected by the interruptions.

(Interruptions).

Mr. S. Ryan

I wish to ask the Taoiseach two pertinent questions. I am speaking on behalf of blind people and those who are visually impaired.

Mr. Costello

The Deputy is talking to the right people.

Mr. S. Ryan

In the context of electronic voting and the preparation of——

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy's question is on electronic voting——

Mr. S. Ryan

It is in regard to the proposed legislation on electronic voting.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the content of that legislation.

Mr. S. Ryan

I am well aware of that. In the preparation of the heads of that Bill, will the Taoiseach arrange for a speech package to be provided to incorporate the needs of people with disabilities?

An Ceann Comhairle

That will arise when we deal with the legislation. Has the Deputy a second question?

(Interruptions).

Mr. Rabbitte

We will see. I support the PDs. We will see.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte should not interrupt his colleague, Deputy Seán Ryan.

Mr. Rabbitte

The little man from Waterford will back off yet.

Mr. S. Ryan

Has the Taoiseach any plans in the context of new health and safety legislation——

Mr. Callely

Are you going to make an application?

Mr. S. Ryan

If Deputy Callely was more interested in the needs of the elderly, he would not be laughing at this question.

Mr. Callely

It has been a long haul. The Deputy is making a good job of it.

Mr. S. Ryan

In the context of the new health and safety-——

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Callely, to allow Deputy Seán Ryan to continue without interruption.

Mr. S. Ryan

This is the longest question I have ever posed on the Order of Business.

Mr. M. Smith

We are becoming elderly listening to the Deputy.

Mr. S. Ryan

Under the new health and safety legislation, are there any proposals to introduce legislation for corporate manslaughter?

Mr. M. Smith

Who did the Deputy have in mind?

The Taoiseach

A health and safety Bill is to be published this session.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy McManus.

Mr. S. Ryan

I was wondering why the Minister was making a joke of this. This is an important issue.

Mr. M. Smith

I was not the only one laughing at the Deputy.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Seán Ryan should resume his seat. The Minister should allow Deputy Ryan to resume his seat.

Ms McManus

The Government intends to get rid of democratic accountability in our health boards by way of legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question on legislation?

Ms McManus

I have. I have two questions.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is not allowed preface a question.

Ms McManus

I am.

An Ceann Comhairle

She is not allowed to preface it with what she might say in a Second Stage speech or leading up to that Stage.

Mr. Stagg

The Ceann Comhairle should not interrupt the question. This is an inappropriate interruption from the Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair never interrupts. The Chair intervenes, when necessary.

Ms McManus

There is much time-wasting, but it is not coming from me.

Mr. Stagg

It is coming from the Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is coming from the Deputy's party.

Ms McManus

When will legislation, entitled the health (amendment) Bill, to abolish democratic accountability in our health boards come before the House? When I table a parliamentary question seeking to know the impact on my local hospital, which is a health board hospital, of the Hanly report changes and I receive a rubbish reply which has nothing to do with the question, what can the Ceann Comhairle do, as the guardian of my rights and those of other Members of this House, to protect my right to the information I am entitled to have on behalf of my constituents?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair, since the establishment of the State, has no control over the reply to questions.

The Taoiseach

The heads of the health (amendment) Bill were approved prior to Christmas and the Bill will be published and taken in the House during the current session.