Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 11 Mar 2004

Vol. 582 No. 2

Order of Business (Resumed).

Mr. Kenny

I wish to raise a matter that is of concern to everybody. Yesterday, the Government announced its proposals to hold a referendum on citizenship. Three weeks ago in this House, I asked the Taoiseach a question about the Government's proposals to hold constitutional referenda this year. The Taoiseach answered, as follows: "The Government has no proposals at present to hold a referendum to change the Constitution". He went on to refer to the All-Party Committee on the Constitution's deliberations on property rights, the studybeing conducted by a sub-committee of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges concerning Seanad reform, and the outcome of the Intergovernmental Conference on the draft EU constitutional treaty, which commenced in Rome on 4 October 2003.

Yesterday, at 4 p.m., my party was contacted by telephone from the office of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Deputy Jim O'Keeffe was given a briefing note for all-party consultations.

Mr. Gormley

Some consultation; it was diktat.

Mr. Kenny

At the meeting at 4.30 p.m., the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said he was not a Trappist monk and that arrangements had been made for a press conference and a statement for the 6 o'clock news. The Minister for Defence will be aware that the programme for Government contains a specific reference, quoted in the document of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform yesterday, that all-party discussions will be initiated on constitutional or other measures that might be required in dealing with applications from non-nationals to remain in this State on the basis of parentage of an Irish-born child. It is unclear from the Government at this moment whether it intends to hold the referendum on 11 June or on another date, perhaps in conjunction with a presidential election or together with another referendum, for instance, on the introduction of electronic voting.

I warn the Minister for Defence that this is not the way to do business on this sensitive matter. In so far as the Fine Gael Party is concerned, I recognise there is a problem and that a solution to it must be found. I commit my party to participate in this debate in a rational, non-emotional and non-racist manner. Following the Taoiseach's remarks three weeks ago and given that this is a sensitive issue, I would have thought that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform could have brought this matter to the All-Party Committee on the Constitution as the appropriate forum. In that way, a comprehensive, rational and inclusive series of discussions could have taken place. There are serious questions in respect of whether amending Article 9 of the Constitution is the proper way of going about this. There are also questions concerning the changed position and the implications in respect of the Good Friday Agreement. Clearly, in the run-up to local and European elections, there is a distinct probability that inflammatory comments could be made about this sensitive situation.

I urge the Government not to proceed in the way it now proposes. Given the sensitivity of this matter and while recognising that there is a problem, I recommend strongly that the appropriate forum to deal with this initially is the All-Party Committee on the Constitution. That is where comprehensive discussions on the matter should begin. Fine Gael will contribute constructively and seriously to that important debate in a realistic and rational fashion. I recognise that a solution to the problem must be found and I will contribute to the quest for that solution.

Ms McManus

I endorse what Deputy Kenny has said as well as expressing grave concern at the way in which this matter has been dealt with so far. Not only did the Taoiseach say a few weeks ago that there was no proposal to have a referendum to change the Constitution, when the issue was raised by Deputy Quinn at the time of the Good Friday Agreement, the Taoiseach stated:

I can assure you that, in the event of Article 2 and 3 taking effect, no legislation will be promised by this Government to the Oireachtas, which imposes restrictions on the entitlement to Irish nationality and citizenship of persons born in Ireland.

That is a clear statement but it is evident now that the Government has adopted a different approach. While everybody understands that the issue needs to be dealt with, a constitutional referendum is not necessarily the best way for the Government to do so. We need to see deliberation, assessment and discussion on the constitutional and legal issues to which the Minister has referred, but that will take time.

The previous referendum was on abortion. The All-Party Committee on the Constitution spent a considerable length of time — and it was time well-spent — assessing the issue, holding hearings, examining all the implications and coming to conclusions. On this issue, if anything, we need more time to consider what is being proposed because it is about Irish citizenship and has implications for the Good Friday Agreement. The consultation that is required goes beyond any possible consultation within this House. We need to hear a statement from the Government that this issue will be uncoupled from the local and European elections.

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter does not arise. The Deputy should confine herself to the Order of Business. We cannot go into detail on what might be in the legislation. The Chair has been generous with regard to time.

Ms McManus

I am setting the matter in a broad context and am not talking about detail.

An Ceann Comhairle

I appreciate that.

Ms McManus

I am talking about political considerations of which the Government needs to be conscious. None of us should create any increase in racial attitudes. We have a responsibility and, in particular, the Government has a responsibility not to be opportunistic about this matter and not to endanger inter-community relationships in this country in any way. That requires a firm statement rather than the kind of open-ended, wishy-washy statement we heard this morning from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that the referendum may or may not happen on 11 June.

There are two aspects to this. First, I urge the Government to ensure that there is proper consultation with parties here and in Northern Ireland. Second, political considerations should be taken into account to ensure that there is no increase in racism as a result of the moves being made by the Government. That is a modest set of requirements. We are being reasonable but it is also a statement of our intent that we will not allow this issue to become a political football in the local and European elections. That would be the wrong thing to do.

Mr. Gormley

I regret very much that my constituency colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, has decided in the most cynical and opportunistic way to play the race card in the run up to the local and European elections. It is a rush job. With one hour's notice, he summoned the Opposition spokespersons on justice, equality and law reform to his office and then went to a press conference. That is the wrong way to do business. Proper consultation, hearings and a White Paper are needed. We need to sit down and discuss this issue in great detail. The Government will find if it is reasonable, the Opposition will be reasonable, but, if the Government behaves in such an unreasonable way, rushing to use this issue as a political ploy, it will find we will provide the necessary opposition.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I have on many occasions over the past year asked the Taoiseach what plans he had for referenda and I do not recall him on any occasion signalling such a proposition as the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform announced last evening. I agree this matter would be best addressed in the first instance by reference to the All-Party Committee on the Constitution. It is absolutely imperative that it should be addressed in a sane and sensible arena and that is the place to start. A constitutional amendment has been proposed and, if this committee of the House has not had the opportunity to have proper deliberations on all that is entailed, the relevance of this institution will be bypassed. That is the place to start and I concur with the view expressed. I commend to the Minister to, in turn, reflect that to both the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. No good will come of the Minister's implied intent that this will be brought forward on 11 June, piggybacking the local and European parliamentary elections. If anything, it will be a distraction from the issues in both elections and will only provide a platform for the worst excesses of Irish political life, which I roundly reject.

Mr. M. Smith

I thank the Deputies, particularly Deputies Kenny and McManus, for a reasonable and careful approach to a significant problem, which must be addressed. It is not unusual for the Taoiseach to say there have been no decisions and plans until such time as there are and this decision was taken by the Government as recently as two days ago to have a referendum. It has not been decided when the referendum will be held but the most important element, apart from a referendum Bill, will be the legislation that will be enacted if the referendum is agreed by the people. That is where the consultative process in terms of how all this is done should take place in a deliberate way. The response of the Government in that context will be as forthcoming, fair and open as it can make it so that the problem, which leaves Ireland in an exposed position relative to all its EU partners, can be addressed sensibly and remedied in a way in which there is as much unanimity as possible on the provisions needed.

Ms McManus

Is the Minister saying there will not be consultation with political parties before the publication of the referendum Bill?

Mr. M. Smith

Absolutely not. The Government will be open to maximum consultation but, while the referendum Bill is significant, it is not the most significant part of this process. The most significant part is the secondary legislation, which will be enacted subsequently.

Ms Burton

Will that be published before the referendum?

An Ceann Comhairle

We have to move on, we cannot have a debate on it. The Chair has been more than generous regarding time and because of the time devoted to this issue, I request that the House moves on to the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill.

Mr. Gormley

Can the Minister assure the House——

An Ceann Comhairle

We are not having more discussion on this. We will not open a debate on it now. The Chair has been more than lenient with Members who wished to raise this issue.

Mr. Gormley

I am simply asking a question.

An Ceann Comhairle

Members complained that there was not time to debate the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill and I request Members to move on.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

What form of consultation has the Minister in mind?

Mr. Gormley

Could we have a response on consultation?

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise. Perhaps the Minister will communicate with the Deputy. I call No. 9b.

Ms McManus

On a point of order, the Order of Business is not finished.

An Ceann Comhairle

We went well outside the normal Order of Business in allowing a debate of almost half an hour on this issue. The Chair asks Members to facilitate the House in getting on to the other business, which will conclude at 3.30 p.m.

Ms McManus

Will the legislation be published before the referendum? If so, how will the consultation process——

An Ceann Comhairle

The question is: will the legislation be published?

Mr. M. Smith

Yes.

Mr. Gormley

What is the likelihood of the referendum taking place on 11 June?

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise.

Mr. M. Smith

No decision has been taken on a referendum.