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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 30 Mar 2004

Vol. 582 No. 6

Adjournment Debate.

Decentralisation Programme.

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to address the matter and I hope he will address it sympathetically.

In his budget statement in December, the Minister for Finance announced the decentralisation of part of the Department of Agriculture and Food from Cork city to Macroom. I understand the rationale behind decentralisation was to decentralise posts from Dublin. This is one of the few cases where civil servants based outside Dublin will be moved to another area.

As the Minister of State knows, Cork is a big county and there already is a Department of Agriculture and Food office in Clonakilty. My constituency is east of the city and includes towns like Youghal, Midleton, Michelstown, Cobh and Fermoy. Farmers from this area currently travel to Cork city to conduct business with the Department. While there are problems with parking near the office on the South Mall, they get around this.

Under the decentralisation programme, staff working in the office on the South Mall will move to Macroom. I am sure the Minister of State will sympathise with farmers from Youghal who will now have to pass Cork city in order to get to Macroom to conduct business. This does not improve the service for farmers. Surely improving the service to customers, as they are now termed, is what the Department should be concerned with. I ask the Minister for Agriculture and Food to re-examine this decision. While I am not saying there should not be an office in Macroom, there should be an office on the eastern or northern periphery of the city that would be easily accessible to farmers from east and north Cork. A number of well-attended meetings have been held and this is what farmers have called for.

The office on the South Mall serves two DVO areas. The Cork north district veterinary area has 6,032 herds while the Cork central district veterinary area has 2,357 herds. Therefore, more than 8,000 herds will be affected by this move. As of last November, there were 280 restricted TB herds for the Cork northeast area and 349 for the Cork southwest area.

This is crucial for farming in Cork. It does not make sense to move the offices to Macroom and require farmers to travel from Youghal, through Cork city and on to Macroom. Farmers from Youghal have no connection with Macroom. Macroom is a lovely town and is a great place and should have an office that serves mid-Cork. However, east and north Cork should not be discommoded in the way proposed by the Minister.

While I have raised this issue on a number of occasions with the Minister by way of parliamentary question, he did not give me great solace in his responses. He should look at this again. I hope the Minister of State will be able to tell me that this will be re-examined. While I am aware of the decentralisation implementation committee, I am not sure of its role. I understand the OPW must locate buildings and premises. The Minister for Finance has made a decision and I am not sure if it can be reversed at this stage. Although farmers are social partners, I am told they were not consulted about this issue and they are somewhat upset about this.

I hope the Minister of State can give me good news on this. The office in question is a service office and must be accessible and within easy reach of the farmers it serves. Farmers cannot afford the time to drive all the way to Macroom and back. The office could be located on the outskirts of the city.

The Government's decision on the decentralisation of 10,300 staff from Departments and the Office of Public Works includes plans to decentralise 70 staff from Cork city to Macroom. Since the decision was taken, the Department has established an implementation committee to oversee all aspects of decentralisation. If we are to realise the benefits of decentralisation it is clear that implementing this ambitious programme will require careful planning and organisation while minimising the disruption to the work of the Department during the transition period. Officials from the Department have been involved in discussions with the Department of Finance, the OPW and the central implementation committee — chaired by Mr. Phil Flynn — on how best to progress the matter. Contacts have also been established with the relevant local authorities. These contacts have been productive and will be maintained and deepened in the months ahead.

The benefits of decentralisation are numerous and will result in a change of culture in policy formation and will provide career prospects for those being transferred. Benefits for those involved include reduced commuting time and lower house prices.

The Minister of State is not being serious.

On a wider scale, the creation of jobs and the movement of families to the 53 locations chosen for decentralisation will bring considerable economic benefit to those communities and a greater element of service delivery at local level. In this context, we will keep in mind the issue of providing the best possible quality of service to the Department's customers when formulating plans for implementing the overall decentralisation programme. This is a topic my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Walsh, has discussed with the Minister for Finance and which will be kept in mind as the process progresses. The Department will comply with the Government time scale for completion of the relocation and the House will be kept advised of relevant developments.

Surely the Minister of State did not write this response.

It is the current status of the great move from Dublin to the regions. It will deliver real service to people across Cork.

The Minister did not address the issue. It is a farce.

Hospitals Building Programme.

I hope the Minister of State has more information for me than was offered to Deputy Stanton on the previous matter raised.

A building at South Tipperary General Hospital at St. Joseph's, Clonmel, has been vacant for more than 12 months. It should house a 40 bed surgical unit, a 15 bed day unit and an accident and emergency unit. It has been idle and had been a white elephant for the past 12 months. The local health board has repeatedly contacted the Department of Health and Children requesting funding to equip and staff the units. They have been promised on a number of occasions since last March that the moneys would be made available and that it would be possible to open the units in a reasonably short period of time.

I hope the Minister of State will be able to answer the questions I have raised. When will the moneys and funding be made available to equip the units that are lying idle in St. Joseph's Hospital? When will the moneys be made available to employ the staff to run the units? Despite the best efforts of well-qualified and committed staff, health services in south Tipperary have been inadequate for a number of years. Staff have not been given the necessary resources to provide a quality health service for the citizens of south Tipperary.

After waiting 12 months, I demand that the Minister finally announce the funding for equipping and staffing the unit and give a date for opening it. Even if it is just before the local elections, I want to see the unit opened and not left lying there for another 12 months having already lain idle for the past 12 months denying a quality service to the people of south Tipperary. I do not want to hear a load of balderdash from the Minister tonight — I want answers to the questions raised. I ask the Minister to inform the House when funding will be made available to equip and staff the unit and when it will be opened.

I take this opportunity to outline the position regarding the development of hospital services at South Tipperary General Hospital.

I did not ask about that.

The south Tipperary hospital agreement, which was signed in January 1996, paved the way for development——

On a point of order, I did not ask the Minister anything about the development or any agreement signed. I asked the Minister to tell the House when he will make funding available to equip and staff the unit and I would appreciate if he would outline that.

The south Tipperary hospital agreement, which was signed in January 1996, paved the way for development of hospital services in the region and the bringing together of surgery and medicine on a single site. The major capital development programme, to which the Deputy referred, to provide the infrastructure to facilitate the transfer of surgical services from Our Lady's Hospital, Cashel, to St. Joseph's Hospital, Clonmel, is now complete. In October of last year, St. Joseph's Hospital celebrated the 150th anniversary of its foundation and these celebrations coincided with the official opening of a number of new facilities at the hospital, including a coronary care step down unit, medical assessment unit, cardiac rehabilitation unit, a new 35-bed medical ward, a CT department and a library and education centre.

The next phase of the development involves the provision of a new accident and emergency department, ward accommodation, operating theatres, intensive care unit, day care unit, central sterile supplies department, physical medicine department and education and consulting rooms.

There are no answers to the questions I raised.

The integration of acute services on one site will greatly enhance the services available to patients in the region.

We get pure evasion and no replies to matters on the Adjournment and parliamentary questions.

This is not a parliamentary question but a——

No, it is a matter on the Adjournment and I have got no replies to the matters I raised.

The Deputy should allow the Minister of State to speak.

My colleague, the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, has already stated that he is fully committed to achieving this objective in as timely a manner as possible——

Some 12 months after it was completed hardly represents a timely manner

——and subject to available resources.

That was what he said 12 months ago when he visited the hospital for its 150th anniversary.

The Minister should be allowed to reply. It is not in order to interrupt.

After the transfer of the surgical services, Our Lady's Hospital will be used to provide services for the elderly and for those with mental and physical disabilities. The estimated capital investment for the first phase of the development of Our Lady's Hospital, Cashel, will be approximately €12 million.

As the Deputy will be aware the provision of hospital services for south Tipperary is a matter for the South Eastern Health Board.

It is funded by the Department.

The board has sought additional resources to complete the transfer of surgical and emergency services to South Tipperary General Hospital.

When will it get them?

The Deputy made his name by not giving his local town council resources so I will not be treated in this way in the House on the Adjournment.

The people in south Tipperary do not want to be treated in this way either.

The Minister should reply without interruption.

For 12 months we have been asking for money to be made available. It is about time we got an answer.

The Department of Health and Children and senior management of the health board are working closely together with a view to equipping and opening the new facilities as soon as possible. The Minister and his officials will continue to work with the South Eastern Health Board to resolve the outstanding issues so that the people of south Tipperary can see the benefits of the significant investment in health services in the area.

There were no replies to any of my questions.

Sexual Offences.

I hope the Minister of State has a more specific response to my question than Deputy Healy got to his.

So do I.

I want the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to provide the necessary resources and personnel to deal with the large increase in prostitution in the Arbour Hill area of Dublin. That area comprising Arbour Hill, Montpelier Hill and Bricins Park has become a major centre for prostitution day and night. This was an unexpected fall-out from the Luas works. Construction for Luas has continued for far longer than we expected. Benburb Street had been the centre for that activity, but once the Luas work commenced, it displaced that activity. Consequently many prostitutes now ply their trade in a highly residential area comprising Arbour Hill, Montpelier Hill and Bricins Park.

Bricins Park has a large community of senior citizens, Montpelier Hill has a large community of local authority housing tenants, many of whom are young, and there are many residents in Arbour Hill. It is particularly undesirable and dangerous that the punters, who come to attract the attentions of the women there, accost young girls and women on their way to the shops or just walking in the area. It has become a hazard and is dangerous. There have also been allegations of more criminal activity in the area. For the old folk it is particularly embarrassing as much activity takes place in the confines of the senior citizens' complex.

At a recent public meeting in the local community centre involving the residents, the Garda and the local authority, there were very angry scenes and expressions of annoyance and concern that nothing was being done. It was stated that the situation had got out of hand, that there was an alarming increase in this type of activity and that young women and children were being accosted in the area. This problem did not exist in the past and has now become a serious concern in the area.

At the meeting residents stated that police patrolling is inadequate. I understand that gardaí stationed at the Bridewell do not have their own vehicles and have to get them from elsewhere. Garda numbers in the Bridewell have not increased in ten years. Given the increase in crime in the country, particularly in the inner city, it is incredible that the Government has not given a single additional garda to the Bridewell station. There are two fewer gardaí there when compared with ten years ago, which is unbelievable considering the enormous increase in public order offences etc. in the area.

The residents requested the installation of CCTV cameras, particularly in the vicinity of the senior citizens complex and where children and young people congregate and play, to assist in identifying those involved in kerb crawling in the area. The need for greater lighting, which would be an effective deterrent, was highlighted. Most of all, there was a demand for the Garda to be more proactive and assiduous in arresting not just the women plying their trade there but also the punters. While this is sometimes seen as an offence committed by only one person, that is not the case. If more of the clients were brought to the courts and named and shamed, it might be possible to disperse much of the activity that takes place. I ask that action be taken and resources provided to implement some of the proposals I have suggested.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter on the Adjournment. The area of the city to which the Deputy refers has a reputation as one in which prostitutes have operated for a long time.

It did not have such a reputation in the past.

That is correct. The Deputy will note from my script that I rephrased the opening sentence. I assure him that the Garda and the Minister share his concern in respect of the problems caused to residents of the area by prostitutes and their clients.

The legislation governing this activity is quite modern, with the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993 being the most recent statute. As Deputies will be aware, prostitution is not in itself a crime but the law does seek to protect prostitutes from exploitation and to protect the public from certain manifestations of prostitution. It is an offence for a person, in a street or public place, to solicit or importune another person for the purposes of prostitution. The offence applies equally to a prostitute soliciting a client, a client soliciting a prostitute or a third party soliciting one on behalf of the other. The same offence and penalties apply to prostitutes, clients or anyone who solicits in a public place. It is also an offence to solicit or importune another person in order to commit certain sexual offences, such as sexual offences with under age persons, to keep or to manage a brothel.

A significant provision in terms of the Deputy's concerns is that a member of the Garda Síochána who has reasonable cause to suspect that a person is loitering in a street or public place in order to solicit for the purpose of prostitution may direct that person to leave the scene immediately. It is then an offence not to comply with such a direction without reasonable cause. Loitering includes loitering in a motor vehicle and this provision, therefore, applies to kerb-crawlers.

In addition to its other provisions, the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993 also extended the law on soliciting in public which previously applied only to prostitutes and any third parties, for example, pimps. It strengthened the law on the protection of prostitutes from exploitation by introducing new offences aimed at curbing organised prostitution and strengthening the law against living off the earnings of a prostitution of another person. It is now an offence for a person to compel or coerce another person to be a prostitute or to control or direct a prostitute or to organise prostitution. It is also an offence to live knowingly off the earnings of a prostitute and to aid and abet prostitution.

I am informed by the Garda authorities that the area in question is regularly patrolled by uniform and plain-clothes gardaí from the Bridewell district with a view to ensuring a concentrated and visible Garda presence in the area. I understand that in addition to the normal patrols operating in the area, two gardaí have recently been assigned to specifically deal with street prostitution in the Bridewell district. Community gardaí assigned to the area liaise with residents and community representatives on an ongoing basis. I am further informed by the Garda authorities, who are responsible for the detailed allocation of personnel and resources to individual areas, that the current Garda strength of 163 in the area is adequate to meet existing policing needs. However, the situation will be kept under review in the overall context of the needs of Garda districts throughout the country.

The Deputy will be interested to know that in 2002, the Garda brought 117 cases for soliciting or importuning for prostitution in the Dublin north-central area and 29 persons were convicted by the court. The corresponding figure for 2003 was 115 proceedings commenced and 36 persons convicted. In 2002, proceedings were commenced for loitering for prostitution against 32 people and nine persons were convicted. The corresponding figure for 2003 was 36 proceedings commenced and two persons convicted.

The Deputy will be aware of the good work undertaken by the Ruhama women's project, which receives funding from the Department for its work with and on behalf of women involved in prostitution. The project organises both individual and group counselling for women, assists in the area of prevention and rehabilitation directly and, in liaison with other agencies, raises awareness about the problem and engages in research and integration between European countries.

I am assured by local Garda management that it will ensure that a concentrated visible Garda presence continues to be maintained to deter this activity.

Probation and Welfare Service.

Almost two years ago, the OPW purchased for €1.5 million the old Allied Irish Banks premises on Main Street, Blanchardstown, with the intention of using the building for a probation and welfare service offices for Dublin 15. This move was undertaken without any consultation with local people or local politicians and public representatives. It is not known what type of consultation or evaluation process took place in either the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform or the OPW prior to the acquisition regarding whether this was the best site and offered the best value for money.

Two years later, this building remains empty and idle, a monument to the Government's ineptitude with public money. Other public institutions in the area, such as FÁS, the citizen's information centre and the Department of Social and Family Affairs all occupy office premises on the Blanchardstown Town Centre complex, which is now the business and shopping heart of Dublin 15. At meetings with local residents, the probation and welfare service's representatives indicated that they wanted a site in the central business and commercial district of Dublin 15. However, they seemed to be unaware that this is now the town centre complex.

If the probation and welfare service is anxious to have a successful service in Blanchardstown, a development I support, providing some degree of anonymity for its clients, why does it not follow the example of FÁS, the Department of Social and Family Affairs, etc., and locate to purpose-built office accommodation at the town centre complex? This is likely to be a far more economical proposition because, in addition to the €1.5 million spent on purchasing the AIB building, it has emerged that the project will accrue in the region of a further €1.4 million in refurbishment costs. This refurbishment will include, for example, knocking down the back of the building to create 12 car parking spaces. Locals remain unconvinced about the suitability of the building and the exorbitant costs involved. Unusually for a justice building, the structure faces directly on to the main street, which is infrequently supervised by regular or community gardaí and does not have CCTV, and has no forecourt or grounds, leading to potential security problems.

Were any value for money criteria applied to this project and were any feasibility studies carried out in respect of the suitability of the site and more economic alternatives? Local residents have expressed their concerns about the appropriateness of this project, located as it is directly opposite a large public house. With the flight of public service offices to the town centre, participants in the probation and welfare service scheme will now stand out much more rather than being more anonymous if they had to attend at a town centre location.

Many local residents in the immediate area are advancing in age. Residents in Dublin 15 are happy to have a probation service and many would also like to have a court service. Anyone familiar with the recent extraordinary development of Dublin 15 would be aware that the logical place for these developments is within the town centre and its environs.

At a public meeting last night, the Government representatives present indicated that the refurbishment has been put on hold. Will the Minister of State clarify what this involves? During the debate on the Estimates today, I spoke to the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, who has responsibility for the OPW. He seemed to indicate that the holding period would be short and that there would be a cursory examination followed by the project proceeding. Will the Minister of State agree to meet a deputation of local public representatives and local people to discuss this issue in detail in order to achieve an outcome that is favourable for local people and provides a probation and welfare service for the people of Dublin 15 at the most appropriate location?

The probation and welfare service nationwide has moved towards localisation of its offices during the past number of years.

The mission statement of the probation and welfare service is to foster public safety and to promote the common good by reducing the level of re-offending. This is achieved through the management of offenders on supervision orders from the courts in their local and/or immediate surrounding areas. The service aims to reduce victimisation of members of local communities by developing positive relationships with offenders to reduce and/or eliminate offending. Local service delivery enhances the chances of co-operation from offenders and facilitates contact between the service staff, families of the offenders and staff of health boards and other locally-based agencies.

Currently, the only District Court team working from the probation and welfare service headquarters in Smithfield is the team covering Dublin 7 and 15. The location of the team in Smithfield can place considerable financial expense and travel time on the client and service staff in keeping appointments. All other Dublin District Court teams have been localised. It should be noted that in Dublin, the probation and welfare service has been successful in localising its offices in Dún Laoghaire, Ballyfermot, Tallaght, Finglas, Crumlin and Clondalkin. No complaint has been received to date from any member of the public, nor has any complaint been brought to the attention of any officer of the service by the Garda regarding the behaviour of those attending a local office.

The premises referred to by the Deputy at Main Street, Blanchardstown, was acquired on 15 April 2002 by the Office of Public Works on behalf of the probation and welfare service. The total cost of the purchase, as stated by the Deputy, was €1.5 million, including VAT. Provision of a probation centre fulfils one of the commitments agreed under the national development plan. The development is taking place after much discussion with groups in the local community. Officers of the service have met with the local authority, the local chamber of commerce and residents to share with them the proposed plans. The Office of Public Works has met with local neighbours and has taken on board their views in regard to the development. The architect has also taken considerable time to provide a building that is in harmony with the surroundings and that brings minimum change to the street vista. The fit out will be to the highest standards.

The overall project budget is in the region of €2.9 million.

One could imagine what a local school could do with that money.

Provision has been made for local schools in the area.

Children are being taught in prefabricated accommodation, not permanent buildings.

The Deputy should read this year's Estimates. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has requested the Office of Public Works to examine alternative options in the Blanchardstown area. However, I should emphasise that there is considerable urgency attaching to the development of a probation and welfare centre in the Blanchardstown area.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.05 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 31 March 2004.
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