Liam Twomey
Ceist:92 Dr. Twomey asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children the progress to date on the implementation of her accident and emergency ten point plan; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [29479/05]
Priority Questions.
Accident and Emergency Services.
The Health Service Executive is advancing the implementation of a series of measures to improve the delivery of accident and emergency services. These measures take a wide ranging approach and are aimed at improving access to accident and emergency services, improving patient flows through accident and emergency departments, freeing up acute beds and providing appropriate longer term care for patients outside of the acute hospital setting.
A particular focus has been placed on those patients in acute hospitals who have completed their acute phase of treatment and are ready for discharge to a more appropriate setting. The HSE is making sustained efforts to arrange for the discharge of these patients to have more acute beds available in hospital for emergency patients. High dependency beds and intermediate care beds in private nursing homes along with home care packages are being used to ensure that patients are appropriately placed. The number of delayed discharges in the major Dublin hospitals now stands at 378. This is the lowest number since January 2005 and has been achieved as a result of the various measures implemented to improve the delivery of accident and emergency services.
The HSE has also advised me that there was a reduction of 22% in the total numbers waiting on trolleys in accident and emergency departments between April 2005 and September 2005. The reduction in Dublin hospitals has been 25%.
My Department and the HSE will continue to work closely to maintain a focus on the implementation of system-wide measures to improve the delivery of accident and emergency services.
There was a danger for some time that the Tánaiste's ten point accident and emergency plan would turn into a ten year plan. I am glad she has focused her attentions on the nub of the problem in the accident and emergency departments in the greater Dublin region.
Her reply did not refer to MRI scanners and everything else that went into this ten point plan, but mentioned that she has focused on the problem, that is, looking after those 400 patients who are taking up beds inappropriately in the acute hospitals.
I want more detail on what she means because this looks at long-term care, both low and high-dependency level care for these patients. What plans has she for a community care nursing home setting, hopefully run in the public sector in the greater Dublin region and how will she look at that problem in the future? There may be 400 patients in these Dublin hospitals now — the figure has always been between 400 and 500 — but what is the Tánaiste's plan for the future, especially when we have an older population? The matter of how badly this job has been done by Government has cropped up in many parliamentary questions in recent times. For example, the health strategy promised community care support and extended care beds at a rate of 800 per year. To date, since 2001, only 531 of these beds have been delivered — less than 10%. During those years, the former Minister for Health and Children and the Ministers of State, Deputies Martin and Callely, continued to answer questions on the issue by saying what a great job they were doing in delivering these beds. However, less than 10% of the expected beds have been delivered. I ask the Tánaiste for a clear answer on how we will develop community care nursing home beds in the public system for the greater Dublin region, both now and into the future.
Question No. 92 mainly concerns the issue of accident and emergency units, a matter that has been a priority for me. We have worked successfully on initiatives that will have a lasting and not just a temporary impact. That is the reason the number of patients on trolleys is down by 25% in Dublin and 22% nationally since last April.
With regard to the elderly — on which a parliamentary question arises later — there have been significant initiatives. I will announce further initiatives later this year, many of which will support people to remain in their homes. Families with support are more inclined to support their elderly in the community than is the case if there is no support. Elderly people prefer this. International research shows that people live two years longer on average and have a higher quality of life if they can live at home. I will deal with the Deputy's question by way of the later question.
One of the big issues in the Dublin area is the lack of out-of-hours services for general practitioners. We have gone to tender on the north side of Dublin in this regard. I understand four companies have submitted tenders to provide these services. This initiative will have a major impact, in particular on Beaumont and the Mater Hospitals.
National Treatment Purchase Fund.
Liz McManus
Ceist:93 Ms McManus asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children the reason a patient was sent from Dublin to Limerick by taxi at a rate of €600 for minor eye surgery under the national treatment purchase fund while other patients have been denied access to treatment by private hospitals due to the fact that the hospitals had been informed that the national treatment purchase fund has filled its quota of patients for the year 2005; the steps she will take to ensure that the Comptroller and Auditor General requests a full review of the national treatment fund in 2005 to assess whether it is providing value for money; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [29481/05]
In its service plan for 2005 the national treatment purchase fund set a target of having treatment arranged for 16,000 patients. Up to the end of September a total of 12,000 patients were treated. Under the fund more than 35,000 patients have been treated to date and waiting times have been significantly reduced.
The majority of these patients have had their treatment provided in private hospitals in Ireland. The NTPF is working closely with private hospitals to identify and locate the necessary capacity to have patients treated while at the same time managing the number of treatments being provided in order to reach its target for 2005. My Department has been informed by the NTPF that patients have not been denied access to treatment in private hospitals. There is no reason any patient should have been turned away. All surgery planned to the end of the year is set to go ahead.
With regard to the transport of patients, I remind the Deputy that the policy of the NTPF is to provide transport for patients where it is deemed medically necessary or where there are people with special needs, for example the elderly or the infirm. In the case to which the Deputy refers, the procedure involved was not minor eye surgery as it required the patient to have a general anaesthetic and to stay overnight in hospital. Transport was decided having regard to patient safety and best medical practice. There was no taxi fare of €600.
In general, the number of patients that require transport is small and the cost of taxis to the NTPF last year was under €4 per patient treated. In the case of a patient going abroad for treatment the travel costs are paid for by the fund. The authorisation of transport is considered on an individual basis, particularly in circumstances where lack of transport would present a barrier to a patient being treated. Otherwise patients are responsible for their own transport.
In the context of his examination of my Department's Appropriation Account for 2004, the Comptroller and Auditor General carried out a review of the operation of the NTPF in 2004. During his review the Comptroller and Auditor General received the full and comprehensive co-operation of the fund. The responses from the fund and my Department to the issues raised in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report have been fully recorded in the text of the report. As a statutory body funded by the Exchequer, the annual accounts of the national treatment purchase fund will be audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House.
The fund's accounts for 2004 are currently being audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General. It is a matter for him to decide which State organisations or State funded programmes are to be the subject of value-for-money audits.
The fund will continue to arrange treatment for patients and the immediate priority for it in 2006 will be to ensure the fullest co-operation from individual hospitals and consultants in dealing with patients waiting longest for surgery. The Health Service Executive has been asked to ensure that this co-operation continues so that those patients waiting for treatment can be facilitated by the fund.
I thank the Tánaiste for her reply, but it is not very satisfactory. It was reported that a patient requiring minor eye surgery was transported by taxi from Dublin to Limerick at a cost of €600. That report was made on 7 October, but now the Tánaiste says it is not true. I am surprised, if it was not true, that it was not immediately rebutted.
Will the Tánaiste accept there are question marks over the national treatment purchase fund? This may grieve her because the fund is the particular baby of the Progressive Democrats. There are serious questions with regard to the value for money or otherwise of the fund. We know now that 36% of cases were seen in public hospitals which means in effect that those hospitals were paid twice to look after patients.
Will the Tánaiste reflect again on what she said about no patient being denied access to care through the national treatment purchase fund? I have evidence to the contrary. A constituent of mine ——
Has the Deputy a question?
Is the Minister aware there have been a number of cases where patients were approached by the NTPF, but when they were directed towards a hospital they were denied care? One was a constituent of mine. Is the Minister also aware of a case relating to a person from Dunboyne in County Meath? When the family phoned the hospital, it replied that it had received a written directive from the NTPF not to take any patients until January.
Will the Minister reflect on her reply because I am sure she does not intentionally want to mislead the House? The examples I have given are the actual record and I ask the Minister to comment on it.
I corrected the report of the €600 taxi fare on the day it appeared. Many inaccuracies have been reported in recent weeks, including one that somebody turned up for surgery and it was cancelled and another that we had changed the medical guidelines for assessing terminally ill patients. Both were untrue, as is this report.
When the treatment purchase fund arranges treatments for people, they proceed unless there is some medical or other reason they cannot, not a lack of funding. The fund got a budget for this year which I increased by 50% and it will spend that money this year. It arranges treatment with various hospitals, some 10% of which will be in public hospitals. The reason that 10% will be in public hospitals is that some of the surgery is very complex, particularly that relating to paediatrics. The facilities do not exist in private hospitals to have that treatment carried out. The figure was higher, but when I came to the Department of Health and Children I directed that no more than 10% of the treatment would take place in public hospitals because the idea is to provide treatment in spare capacity in the private sector for those that are waiting longest.
The figures for those waiting more than 12 months for treatment are down by 70%. Those waiting for six to 12 months are down by 50%. For some 17 of the top 20 surgical procedures, the waiting period is two to four months. This is huge progress.
Does the Tánaiste accept that I have a written reply from the HSE stating there was a change with regard to medical card and means testing for terminally ill patients? I have this in writing and will send it to her.
Since I made that statement public, I have received quite a number of letters and phone calls from terminally ill patients or their families stating that they are being means tested——
We have to move on as we have been seven minutes on this question. The Tánaiste may make a brief reply.
——and nothing the Tánaiste can say will go against the experiences of terminally ill patients who are being means tested for medical cards-——
The Deputy is using up other Deputies' time.
——on which the Tánaiste persists in misleading the House and the public.
The guidelines used for assessing terminally ill patients for medical cards are the guidelines that were used when Deputy Howlin or Deputy Noonan were Ministers for Health and Children or even the former Minister, Mr. Brendan Corish, if the Deputy wants to go back that far. The guidelines have been used for the past 30 years without change and will not change.
The Tánaiste should tell that to the HSE.
It knows that.
Hospital Services.
Paudge Connolly
Ceist:94 Mr. Connolly asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children if she has noted the unanimous call by the seven consultant surgeons at Monaghan and Cavan general hospitals three weeks ago for restoration of acute emergency surgical services at Monaghan General Hospital; if she will prevail on the Health Service Executive north-east region to accede to their call by restoring Monaghan hospital to surgical on-call status; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [30005/05]
I express my sincere sympathies to the family of the late Mr. Patrick Walsh, RIP, who died tragically at Monaghan General Hospital last Friday. His death should not have happened. I have been informed that an intensive care bed was vacant in Cavan General Hospital when Mr. Walsh needed to be transferred.
The circumstances surrounding this tragedy require thorough investigation. Mr. Declan Carey, a consultant surgeon at Belfast City Hospital and an honorary senior lecturer at Queen's University, will carry out an independent and external review of the circumstances surrounding Mr. Walsh's death. The review will be completed and a report will be issued within eight weeks. I look forward to the review answering all the questions relating to this tragic case as a matter of urgent public interest and patient safety.
The policy approach in respect of surgical services for the Cavan-Monaghan hospital group was set out in the 2004 report of a steering group that was established by the former North Eastern Health Board. The recommendations of the steering group, which was representative of all the key stakeholders and included consultant representation from both hospitals, were unanimously approved by the group's members. The steering group recommended that major and emergency surgery should be carried out in Cavan General Hospital and that Monaghan General Hospital should provide selective elective surgery. The steering group's recommendations reflected the advice of the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland. In accordance with the recommendations, a full surgical team based in Cavan will provide services at Monaghan General Hospital in the form of selective elective surgery on a Monday to Friday basis.
In accordance with the steering group's recommendations, the hospital returned to offering 24-hour seven-day medical cover in January 2005. A third consultant physician has been in position since November 2004 and five new anaesthetic non-consultant hospital doctors have been recruited to facilitate the return of the hospital to medical on-call. The HSE recently appointed a non-practising lead consultant surgeon at the Cavan-Monaghan department of surgery. The remit of the surgeon is to oversee an implementation plan arising from the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland's advice on the future configuration of surgical services in Cavan and Monaghan. Measures being taken in that regard include the appointment of surgeons to fill existing or forthcoming vacancies.
The arrangements I have outlined, which are being put in place by the HSE, are designed to enhance the overall level of surgical services across the Cavan-Monaghan hospital group. The HSE recently informed the Department of Health and Children that it will keep the matter under continuing review.
I am sure the Tánaiste will agree that if we had taken on board the letter written by the consultants, we would not have had to endure the events of last Friday, which was a very sad day for the family of the late Mr. Patrick Walsh, who was admitted to Monaghan General Hospital on Thursday at 6 p.m. and died at 7 a.m. the following morning. We should not forget the other 16 deaths which have occurred since Monaghan General Hospital went off-call.
Does the Tánaiste agree that somebody is getting it wrong and that the people are not being listened to? Does she accept that the configuration of the health services preferred by the former chief executives is not working and is costing lives? It is not a case of whether another life will be lost but of when it will be lost. Does the Tánaiste agree that the letter of 15 September last, in which each of the consultant surgeons in the Cavan-Monaghan hospital group asked for on-call status be restored to Monaghan General Hospital for acute surgical emergencies, should have been dealt with as a matter of urgency? If the consultants' request had been accepted, Mr. Walsh's death could have been avoided.
Hear, hear.
The consultants' letter constitutes a serious admission on their part that all is not well. The system is not working, it is unsafe, dangerous and costing lives. I am sure the Tánaiste will take into consideration the view of those charged with delivering this service that it is not safe.
The nation is shocked that the health service is in such a state that a person can be admitted to hospital, left in a hospital bed, given blood and allowed to die. Last Friday's tragedy is compounded by the fact that a bed was available. Was ageism a factor in this regard? A major investigation is needed. We need to be reassured.
I am bitterly disappointed by the quality of the Tánaiste's response to my question. I hoped she would say she would listen to the consultant surgeons who know what they are talking about. The Tánaiste needs to ensure that on-call status is restored to Monaghan General Hospital for acute surgical emergencies, in line with the consultants' request. Will the Tánaiste assure the House that she will talk to every consultant surgeon in the Cavan-Monaghan hospital group? Will she assure me that she will listen to these professional people?
Hear, hear.
As I said in my initial response, it is clear that the death of Mr. Patrick Walsh should not have happened. The inquiry I referred to previously will have to consider why the intensive care bed that was available at Cavan General Hospital was not made available to Mr. Walsh.
It is a disgrace.
I look forward to receiving the outcome of the inquiry quickly as it is clear that many questions need to be answered.
The issue of giving on-call or off-call status to certain hospital services, about which I was specifically asked, is a matter for the Health Service Executive. It is a question of patient safety rather than of resources. Deputy Connolly said that a group of surgeons called unanimously in a letter for the return of on-call emergency status at Monaghan General Hospital. However, the steering group that unanimously recommended that such status be retained at Cavan General Hospital included representatives of the group of surgeons.
They were not given a choice.
The Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland was also involved. Patient safety must be of paramount importance.
It clearly is not.
Does the Tánaiste agree that the consultant surgeons wrote to the Health Service Executive because they had concerns about patient safety and because the steering group's report was not working? The people on the steering group had their hands tied. The consultant surgeons were asked to implement a configuration of services that was presented to them by the then chief executive officer. As the consultants have made it clear to us that the configuration in question is not working, we will have to address the matter by examining it again. Further deaths will occur if we do not do so.
We now have a new organisation. We have received the opinions of representatives of the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland who are experts in this area. There are hospitals in Drogheda, Dundalk, Cavan, Monaghan and Navan. The HSE must decide on the configuration of hospitals in that region. It will decide on what will happen when and where. Patient safety must come first above all else. It must be paramount in any decision we make on this issue. It will guide us in making future decisions.
The consultants signed the letter to which I referred because they are concerned about patient safety. They are concerned when they hear about 40 patients being placed on trolleys at Cavan General Hospital. They are concerned about not being able to cope. That is why the letter was sent to the HSE. The Tánaiste cannot allow the problems to which I have referred to continue.
The consultants were represented on the steering group.
There was one consultant on the steering group.
The group agreed unanimously on its report.
It is a disgrace.
Hospital Accommodation.
Liam Twomey
Ceist:95 Dr. Twomey asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children if the provision of 3,000 acute hospital beds is still Government policy; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [29480/05]
An Agreed Programme for Government includes a commitment to expand public hospital beds and is in line with the commitment in the health strategy to increase total acute hospital bed capacity by 3,000 by 2011. Substantial investment in additional bed capacity has already taken place in acute hospitals. Funding has been provided to open an additional 900 inpatient beds in public acute hospitals. As of 14 October last, 806 of the beds or day places were in place and the remaining 94 beds or day places will come on stream over the coming months. A further 450 acute beds are at various stages of planning and development under the capital investment programme.
Last July, I announced details of an initiative which will provide up to an additional 1,000 beds for public patients in public hospitals over the next five years. The HSE has been asked to begin to develop an implementation plan and to prioritise proposals with reference to the public hospitals' requirement for additional bed capacity. The additional beds will go most of the way to achieving the commitment in the programme for Government to increase total acute hospital capacity.
The health strategy acknowledges that a significant proportion of additional capacity in the acute hospital system will be supplied in future by private providers. The Department of Health and Children, in conjunction with the HSE, will review public capacity requirements in the acute hospital sector in light of the developments since the health strategy was published and the progress of the initiatives I announced in July.
I take it from the Tánaiste's response that the answer to my question whether the provision of 3,000 acute hospital beds continues to be Government policy is "Yes". I offer my condolences to the family of the late Mr. Patrick Walsh. The Tánaiste and I know why the intensive care bed available in the Cavan-Monaghan hospital group was not used. She needs to clarify this aspect of the matter at a later stage.
I was tempted to begin my response to the Tánaiste's comments about Government policy by saying that it seems that she disagrees with her boss. Many people are confused about who runs the health services. I would have assumed that they are being run by the Tánaiste, but it seems that Professor Drumm has become the driving force. He has said there is no need for more acute beds in the Irish hospital system. His comments may be seen as a U-turn on Government policy.
The Deputy should ask a question.
My question is quite clear. The former Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, announced in the health strategy, Quality and Fairness — A Health System For You, that an additional 650 acute hospital beds would be provided in our health care system by the end of 2002. That announcement was made before the previous general election, but in October 2005 we have not yet provided that number of acute hospital beds in the health system. People are being misled. The Tánaiste should make clear whether the Government is committed to delivering the 3,000 acute beds. There seems to be every indication it is not committed to this.
Who decides Government policy? It is misleading for the general public when they hear the chief executive officer of the HSE making announcements like this one. He is responsible for the day-to-day running of our health services. As with the situation in Cavan and Monaghan, the Tánaiste is responsible for the health services. I would like her to clarify whether and when we will have these acute hospital beds. More than one hospital in the country expects acute hospital beds to be delivered. The Tánaiste should outline how committed she is to delivering these beds to the health services.
Beds will be delivered if they are necessary and not for the sake of it. The analysis done by Dr. Mary Codd, based on demographics, suggested we need 3,000 additional beds by 2011. Over 800 of these were provided up to October of this year.
Professor Drumm made the valid comment that if we had appropriate facilities for the elderly, we would immediately release a substantial number of beds. I stated in an earlier reply to the Deputy that 378 patients in the acute system in the Dublin area could be better placed if alternative facilities, which we are seeking to put in place, were available. This would release a substantial number of beds. With regard to the announcement I made in July on freeing up private beds in public hospitals, the intention is to provide 1,000 beds. There is huge interest in this initiative and I believe it will be successful. That, together with the 450 beds planned for Mullingar Hospital, the Mater Hospital, where 100 beds are planned, and a number of other locations throughout the country, will bring us very close to the target of 3,000 beds. We are optimistic we will achieve that target by 2011.
Professor Drumm's job as chief executive officer of the HSE is to deliver health services. As there is no point making policy that is unnecessary, there must be a close working relationship between the Department and the operational side and policy side of the health service. If it were the case that either more beds or less beds were required, the policy makers would have to bear this in mind and reflect it in any policy decision made. However, as of now, to have a further 3,000 beds by 2011 is the plan.
Are 1,000 of the 3,000 beds the ones she refers to being developed by the private system?
Yes.
That was never announced at any stage of the health strategy. While the Tánaiste came up with the figure of 1,000 beds, she must be quite clear where the beds will be located. Will she indicate where she expects these 1,000 beds to be found in a couple of years or what parts of the country are deemed to require them? It is difficult to work out in which public hospitals the beds will be located.
The role of the HSE is an important factor. To use the term used by the Taoiseach last week, the Tánaiste is almost dumping on the HSE all the problems cropping up in the health services. The Tánaiste, to some degree, and the Taoiseach are not taking personal responsibility for many of the problems arising in the health services.
I do not accept that. With regard to the question of where the beds will be located, we considered the private activity in public hospitals. For example, last year some 46% of elective surgery at Tallaght Hospital was carried out on private patients. The beds will be located in Waterford, Limerick, where plans are fairly advanced, and in Dublin at St. James's Hospital, Beaumont Hospital and the James Connolly Memorial Hospital, Blanchardstown, which all have plans. The matter is one for the HSE to advance, considering the overall needs of particular hospitals and the situation in each area. We do not want to displace existing private hospitals so the process must make sense at a local level as well.
I do not accept that we are not taking responsibility. There are clear lines of accountability under the new arrangement. There is one Minister for Health and Children, responsible to the Oireachtas for health policy. The chief executive officer of the HSE is the Accounting Officer and he is responsible to the Oireachtas for the expenditure of money on day-to-day health care services.
MRSA Incidence.
Liz McManus
Ceist:96 Ms McManus asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children the figures in respect of the number of cases of MRSA in each of the past three years and to date in 2005; the number of fatalities attributable to MRSA; the steps which are being taken to reduce the incidence of MRSA; if her attention has been drawn to the view expressed by top management in the main teaching hospitals in Dublin that measures to improve facilities and tackle overcrowding in hospitals will be required to deal with MRSA; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [29482/05]
There were 445 reported cases of MRSA blood-stream infection in 2002, 480 cases in 2003 and 550 cases in 2004. The figure for the first six months of 2005 is 314 cases. The increase in the reported number of cases of MRSA in recent years is mainly due to increased surveillance as a result of more laboratories participating in the reporting process. It is difficult to identify the number of fatalities attributable to MRSA as many people also have significant other medical problems. I have already asked the Health Service Executive to develop systems and methodologies of reporting of MRSA infections by hospital, so we may have a fuller picture of the location and extent of these infections.
Effective infection control measures, including environmental cleanliness and hand hygiene, are central to the control of hospital acquired infections, including drug-resistant organisms such as MRSA. Good hand hygiene is one of the simplest and most effective measures that can be used to stop the spread of MRSA and other infections.
I expect to receive a report shortly from the director of the National Hospitals Office on the national hygiene audit. The results of the audit will form the basis for the changes that are required in work environments and work practices so as to meet the highest possible standards of cleanliness in hospital settings. I have already promised that the results of the hygiene audit will be made public. The HSE will also publish national infection control standards and national cleaning standards, which are a consistent and robust set of hygiene standards for hospitals. Where previously standards may have depended on the approach of a particular hospital or health board, the HSE can now ensure every hospital will share and meet the same high standards of cleanliness and infection control. My Department is continuing to engage with the HSE to agree a series of actions over the coming period so MRSA can be effectively dealt with, so as to achieve a reduction in the incidence and effects of these infections.
I thank the Tánaiste for that information. The increase in the number of MRSA cases being reported is startling and we all recognise there is under-reporting. I take it we are only talking about hospitals whereas information in regard to nursing homes and the wider community is not included. Therefore, I presume the figures should be much higher.
Does the Tánaiste accept the news that five babies in the national maternity hospital are carriers of MRSA is a matter of great concern? Is she able to state that staff within hospitals are doing what she asks, namely, washing their hands? What method has she to evaluate this? Does she accept this is not just a matter of washing hands? Indeed, she has been criticised by a senior consultant for trivialising the matter by stating it is about cleanliness and the washing of hands when there is also the issue of overcrowding. What does she have to say about the impact of overcrowding on the rate and extent of infections, such as MRSA, within our hospitals? How does she intend to achieve the OECD level of 85% bed occupancy? What are her plans in regard to these issues, which I am sure she will agree are as important as that of washing hands?
I accept the issue is about more than washing hands, although all the international evidence and the expert medical advice available to me would suggest it makes the single greatest contribution. It will be a matter for the HSE. The audit, which will be published by the end of this month, will give us baseline figures and will provide interesting data, hospital by hospital, which can be measured on an ongoing basis. That will be significant.
There is now a major emphasis on hygiene and cleanliness. However, I accept the Deputy's point that more isolation wards are needed. The international average would suggest there should not be bed occupancy of more than 80%-85%. The hospital of the future will have many more single rooms than is the case at present. There have always been hospital infections. Our duty is to minimise these by using the hygiene tools available to us. We need more isolation facilities and it is clear that more beds would make an important contribution to this.
The Tánaiste did not answer my question on the number of fatalities.
I do not have that data. My reply stated that many people die from underlying conditions. I do not think that information is available.
I would have thought this was significant information that one should have.
I stated that while some people with MRSA die, they also have underlying conditions. I do not have a breakdown as to how many die purely from MRSA and I do not think anyone has that data.
While I do not want to delay, I ask that the Tánaiste reconsider this approach. I have no doubt that people die from MRSA but it is not being attributed as the cause of death. We need to know how many because there are clearly cases of individuals who have died from MRSA. It is simply unacceptable that the Minister for Health and Children is unable to tell us how many such cases there are.
It is not only the Minister for Health and Children who is not able to tell the Deputy, nobody else can tell her either because we do not have that data recorded. People acquire MRSA in many settings and not exclusively in a hospital environment. As I said, the HSE will work on a hospital by hospital reporting mechanism. If it is possible to separate the data and establish if somebody died from MRSA as opposed to something else, clearly it would be desirable to have that data. At present we report incidence of MRSA in hospital settings and they are the figures I have.