Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 29 Nov 2005

Vol. 611 No. 1

Leaders’ Questions.

Mr. Kenny

As the nation is aware, approximately one quarter of Ireland's freight capacity is out of action coming into the very busy Christmas period. The action of Irish Ferries management suggests that it is determined either to drive its Irish staff onto the dole queue or into slave labour conditions. That action and the subsequent action by shocked workers is resulting and will result in serious disruption for importers, exporters, the farming community, tourists and consumers. If this dispute is not resolved quickly, manufacturers will soon run out of imported components and exporters will not be able to meet their customer's demands. It will only be a matter of time before jobs are lost and the most serious consequences impact on our economy.

Given the potential for a crisis, there is an onus on the Government to act effectively. Does the Minister for Finance, who is standing in for the Taoiseach today, agree that the Taoiseach made a tactical mistake last week in saying nothing more could be done by the Government? This resulted in Irish Ferries going ahead with its plan and gave it the green light to proceed as it saw fit.

Does the Minister believe that the fact one works on a ship means one should be valued any less than if one works in a factory? Does he agree with the Fine Gael spokesman on marine affairs, Deputy Perry, who called on the Government to persuade our European partners to outlaw the practice of re-flagging? Has the Government contacted our European counterparts in this regard? What are the lessons for social partnership, which was designed to avoid exactly this type of problem, and which the Government has repeatedly trumpeted as being a pre-emptive solution to industrial relations disasters such as that now unfolding at Irish Ferries?

Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen)

The Taoiseach has in no way given a green light to anybody to walk away from the norms of industrial relations practice. He was simply explaining last week that the full rigours of the industrial relations machinery have been applied to this problem for some time. He said he and the Government, and any responsible person, would always seek respect from all sides for adherence to this process. The Taoiseach has not given a green light to any activity that is not consonant with best industrial relations practice.

We want to see people's employment rights respected, in whatever industry they work. The Government has always sought to implement social partnership principles and has been the strongest advocate for these principles, on occasions when the Deputy's party had difficulty taking account of them.

Under EU maritime law there is a right of establishment for the reflagging of vessels. We have made it clear that until such time as that happens the full employment and health and safety law will apply in respect of the use of our ports, regardless of what flag the ship flies. The Fine Gael Party leader is aware of this right of establishment. Until such time as that happens we insist on respect for the industrial relations procedure and employment rights.

We seek to do that on the basis that everyone in this dispute recognises the implications, not only for this industry and those whose jobs are at risk, but also for the wider social partnership. The Government asks all sides to continue with their discussions at the Labour Relations Commission, which remains available and is anxious to see how these parties can be brought back to the table. At no time has the Taoiseach or the Government sought to excuse anyone who does not adhere to normal industrial relations procedures.

Mr. Kenny

I did not suggest that the Taoiseach had given the green light for this disastrous series of actions by Irish Ferries, I said that the Taoiseach's comment that the Government could do no more created a perception of helplessness in the Government which Irish Ferries saw as a green light to act as it did. I would be the first to suggest that, from an economic perspective, Irish Ferries might be seen to be a well-run company, but in the current circumstances it is badly led. It is incumbent on the Taoiseach, as head of Government and leader of the country, to intervene at the highest level and give Irish Ferries that message face to face.

Everybody in this House believes that the Labour Court recommendations were the basis on which to build. My office, however, like those of other public representatives, has been inundated with calls from worried businesses and customers about the serious implications for our economy of taking out one quarter of the country's freight capacity. The Government should redouble its efforts. If necessary, the Taoiseach should request that the head of management of Irish Ferries call to his office to be given the message face to face that we do not want anything to happen which will damage our economy. In these circumstances Irish Ferries is badly led and it needs to hear that message clearly and directly.

Mr. Cowen

I assure the Deputy that the Taoiseach has communicated that message and continues to do so in respect of the conduct of this dispute. He has made his position clear. From the outset he indicated that he expects respect for employment and Irish law to apply in this case.

The orderly conduct of industrial relations depends on respect for the basic norms and institutions of the State, especially the Labour Court. While Labour Court recommendations are not generally binding, they should be respected as the proper resolution of disputes. This is especially the case with the Irish Ferries dispute. The court spelt out carefully its views on fundamental aspects of negotiation and collective agreements. It upholds the basic principle that agreements should be honoured unless there are compelling reasons to vary them.

In this case having heard comprehensive arguments from both sides the court concluded that the company had not made a sufficiently compelling case to justify a unilateral termination of its agreement with SIPTU. The court, however, added that all possibilities of renegotiating aspects of the agreement of concern to the company had not been exhausted. It therefore recommended that the parties resume negotiations on such changes as are necessary to address the commercial needs of the company.

Having regard to the clear risk to the conduct of ordinary industrial relations which the court said would otherwise arise, the Government has strongly urged the parties to enter into negotiations with an independent facilitator if necessary. The issues in dispute between SIPTU and the company could have been resolved. It may still be possible to resolve them but the company's tactics have not helped.

Mr. Rabbitte

Does the Minister agree that this is a defining moment in our economy and our society? The social partnership that has been the cornerstone of progress for more than 20 years is being jettisoned when it suits the greedy requirements of one company.

It appears from last night's edition of "Questions and Answers" on television that the Irish Ferries route to the bottom has the support and influence of powerful people in bank boardrooms. Is it enough that the Government is seen to be all over the place? Nowhere was that more evident than on the programme last night when the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, was caught out with two mutually contradictory positions. He ended up looking like a salmon gulping for air in an illegal net.

Mr. McCormack

What is new?

Mr. Rabbitte

The Government is all over the place on this issue. When the Taoiseach made his remarks about walking away, saying there was nothing more the Government could do, he gave the green light to the commando-style raid on the vessel at Pembroke. He wrote to me on 25 November stating: "Yesterday's action was clearly planned in a careful and duplicitous way and we can therefore assume it was planned long before my remarks." That is fair enough, but how does the Taoiseach propose to combat this duplicitous conduct? Will he do so by throwing in the towel? That is all that has happened so far. The Minister for Finance repeats the Taoiseach's excuse about the right of establishment in the European Union. He is blatantly misusing that right to which the Taoiseach also referred in his letter to me when he wrote: "The State cannot hinder the exercise of that right."

He is standing maritime law on its head. We are parties to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. Article 91 of the convention states:

Every State shall fix the conditions for the grant of its nationality to ships, for the registration of ships in its territory, and for the right to fly its flag. Ships have the nationality of the State whose flag they are entitled to fly. There must exist a genuine link between the State and the ship.

Under Article 91 the Taoiseach and the Government are entitled to take action to ensure that Irish Ferries cannot reflag in Cyprus or elsewhere. They can seek to enforce that article at European level.

Mr. S. Ryan

Well done.

Mr. Cowen

Deputy Rabbitte's interpretation of the position is not that available to the Government. As usual, he regards his advice as superior to that of everyone else.

Mr. Penrose

He might be right.

Mr. Cowen

Pending reflagging approval, Irish employment laws will continue to be enforced and at all times Irish safety laws will continue to apply to all vessels using Irish ports, wherever they are flagged. Once the vessel is reflagged it is clearly a matter of international law, as reflected in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, that the terms and conditions of employed seafarers on such vessels need to be decided exclusively by the flag state. It is crystal clear that we cannot prevent the reflagging that occurs as an integral part of exercising a right of establishment in another member state.

Mr. Howlin

It is not crystal clear.

Mr. Cowen

Any company or individual in an EU member state has a right of establishment in any other EU member state. This is a well established provision since the signing of the Treaty of Rome. It is not that I agree or disagree with the idea that this is the mechanism by which Irish employment law would not continue to apply here. We want to see a resolution to the dispute within Irish industrial relations procedures, consistent with our industrial relations tradition on the basis of respect for the norms that apply in Ireland. We want to see both parties in resolution of this dispute as soon as possible, given the implications it could have.

It is not correct to misrepresent the Government's position as being anything other than that. The Government has done all it possibly can, under the industrial relations machinery available to it, to have the parties concerned before the Labour Court, the Labour Relations Commission and other institutions available to us to resolve the dispute. We have a voluntary method of industrial relations. We want to see talks resume. Today, contacts were made with both sides by the Labour Relations Commission. It has proved difficult to even get the parties into the same room to see if a resolution can be made.

We have made it clear what we believe are the best industrial relations practices that apply to this case thus far. We do not seek to condone or excuse the behaviour of the company in this matter one iota. However, it is not possible to bring forward an interpretation of EU law to suggest that an individual or a corporation does not have a right of establishment in another member state. That is a right available since the 1957 Treaty of Rome, as subsequently amended. Whether this is the case, we do not regard this as an excuse or justification for the current situation. We are guided by the Labour Court's recommendations. While they are not mandatory, they set out a means by which this matter should be resolved. It still can be resolved if sufficient will can be mustered between the parties on that basis, consistent with the highest standards applying in Irish industrial relations law.

Mr. Rabbitte

No one is taking issue with the Minister on the right of establishment within the EU. If this company wants to establish a company in Cyprus, it can do so. However, I am drawing the Minister's attention to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, Article 91 of which makes it plain "There must exist a genuine link between the state and the ship". If the Minister for Finance is right, why is the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, according to today's The Irish Times, requiring the company to explain what the link is if the vessels are to be flagged in Cyprus? Is he just going through the motions, like the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, who can take up two different positions on the same subject on the same television programme and forget it at the same time?

Mr. McCormack

He does so every day.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister for Finance can sit down again as I am not finished.

Mr. Cowen

Fair enough. I thought Deputy Rabbitte had finished.

Mr. Rabbitte

Neither is there any point in the Minister saying how much sympathy he has for the workers. Workers up and down the country believe it is not just Irish Ferries that is coming to get them. They believe if this phenomenon of displacement were to take effect in other industries, their jobs would be insecure. This is apart from the considerations raised by Deputy Kenny about trade, tourism and industrial relations.

I will ask the Minister for Finance one simple question. Is he going to deny this company the right to reflag its vessels in Cyprus, as he is entitled to do under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea? If so, let the company then contest it through the judicial procedure that is established by way of tribunal to decide it if it wishes to appeal.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Mr. Cowen

The Government will do everything it possibly can to resolve this dispute within the laws available, whether Irish or EU law. To suggest to the House that the Government is not doing so, in order the gain some political advantage with the public, is a matter the Deputy can pursue on his own.

Ms O. Mitchell

Of course, the Government would never do that.

Mr. Cowen

As regards the suggestion that Ministers have different views on this matter, that is incorrect.

Mr. Howlin

The Minister in question is not in the Chamber.

Mr. Cowen

If I was to profile the Deputy's career with the number of different positions he had on issues——

Mr. S. Ryan

Come off it.

Mr. Howlin

Come off it.

Mr. Penrose

The Minister has not a leg to stand on.

Mr. Cowen

Not only has the Deputy had different positions on this and other issues, but he also has been in different political parties. If I was to engage in such a profile, I would be here for a long time this evening trying to figure out the inconsistencies.

Mr. Penrose

The Minister would have supported William Martin Murphy.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call on Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Mr. Penrose

He is in the employers' pockets.

Mr. Cowen

I will not be intimidated by that Stickie nonsense.

Mr. Penrose

I know exactly his position.

Mr. S. Ryan

He gets back in the door when he cannot answer the questions.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow Deputy Ó Caoláin without interruption.

Ms O. Mitchell

The Minister did not answer the question.

Mr. Penrose

The Minister should forget the spears and get on with sorting out the problem.

Mr. Rabbitte

That was not a great opportunity for the Minister for Finance to display his substitute tog-out.

Mr. Penrose

It is easy to be all talk and smart.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Will the Minister outline to the House what the Government has already done in this dispute? What is the Government now prepared to do to prevent Irish Ferries proceeding on this disastrous course of excluding an Irish workforce, cutting wages, worsening employment conditions and tearing up industrial relations procedures? Will the Minister for Finance undertake with his ministerial colleagues to raise this matter in the European Union? Will the Government work to ensure the introduction of measures to prevent a repeat of this practice within the European Union? Will he encourage the European Union to ensure such an approach is adopted worldwide?

Is he prepared to change the position adopted by the Government in 2004 when it opposed a draft directive on European ferries at the Council of Ministers? Is he now prepared to push for such a directive to be introduced? Does he agree trade and commerce is now seriously at risk and under pressure as a result of the interface that has been created by Irish Ferries management? Will he accept that this is a strategic company for the economy? Will he accept that now is the time, although late in the day as it is, for the Government to consider the future of Irish Ferries?

Does the Minister agree that what we need is Irish Ferries within, rather than outside, State control? Would he agree that at the very least, in relation to Irish Ferries and much of which this Government has already divested itself without the approval of the people, and in the context of still considering the future of Aer Lingus, what we should have had was the retention of a golden share by the State in strategic companies concerned with air and sea connections within this island, the EU and beyond?

Mr. Cowen

In fairness to members of the trade union movement, they have made a distinction between the situation in this dispute and the issue of social partnership. Confirming whether we can continue with social partnership depends on several issues which are not germane in this dispute. However, there are certain issues in this matter that the trade unions would like to see resolved satisfactorily.

The protection of employment law and standards is an important goal of public policy. We do not want to revive a low-wage economy and, in particular, we do not want to foster social division by having jobs transformed from decent employment for Irish citizens to low-paid positions targeted at migrant workers. The Government has invested in good employment standards and it is not prepared to see it replaced by short-sighted and exploitative decisions.

Mr. Broughan

How many employment inspectors are there? This is total hypocrisy.

Mr. Cowen

Ultimately, the State winds up subsiding——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Broughan is not the leader of Sinn Féin. The Minister to continue without interruption.

Mr. Cowen

That is why the Government has introduced a realistic minimum wage. The Government will do all it can to have this matter resolved on the basis that both sides come together. We must keep in mind that jobs will continue to be at risk for as long as the dispute continues. The need to secure a resolution consistent with the recommendation of the Labour Court is and will continue to be the focus of the Government's endeavours. Any attempt by the Opposition to misrepresent the Government's position will be strenuously defended by Government members. While the Opposition seeks advantage from this issue, we remain consistent in our approach——

Mr. Stagg

The Government has done nothing.

Mr. Cowen

——as did those who advocated social partnership in the first place and sought to exercise it while in Government for most of the time since its inception.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The Minister has not answered my question as to what the Government has done, is doing or intends to do to address directly the debacle that is Irish Ferries today. All the points he made, fine though they are in their own place, will mean nothing to the excluded workforce, including, for instance, the Latvian worker who had the courage to appear on "Prime Time" to describe the conditions under which she works on the MV Normandy. She works for 12 hours each day, seven days per week with no holidays or days off. Are the Minister and his colleagues happy that a company which bears the name “Irish Ferries” imposes this type of work regime on its workforce?

As an aside, is the Minister aware that the so-called security company the management of Irish Ferries brought on board its vessels is a sub-group of Risk Management International, a company formed by former members of our Defence Forces? Real questions arise regarding the conduct of the security firm in question, many of whose members received their training as members of the Defence Forces. Should questions not arise about other Government contracts involving public moneys the company has at various locations? Surely its role is not one of bringing heavy-handedness to bear on the rights of ordinary Irish workers, as is the case in this instance. This is a serious matter and one which has a great deal of address among the wider public.

I ask again whether the Minister is prepared to use the opportunities the European Union must offer in having this matter addressed in the context of the EU and to build on the outcome in terms of best practice and standards applying to ferry and sea traffic internationally.

Mr. Cowen

As I pointed out to the Deputy, the Government wants a negotiated settlement to this dispute and asks both sides to use the industrial relations machinery at which the necessary expertise resides to help them resolve the problem. That is the way in which we can resolve this problem. The authority of the Government is behind the institutions of the State which are best placed to assist the parties to resolve the problem and maintain jobs and employment in this country.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The company is not listening.

Mr. Cowen

I outlined to the Deputy in response to his first series of questions that the Government believes the protection of employment standards to be an important goal of public policy and does not want the practices to which the Deputy alluded revived.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

What is the Government doing about it?

Mr. Cowen

We are doing everything. We have provided the means by which, thankfully, an increasing number of people are in gainful employment. With regard to the specific issue that has arisen, the Government has confirmed it wants the matter resolved in a manner consistent with the employment laws and standards which apply in this country and through the industrial relations procedures available to ensure this takes place, as has happened in respect of many other disputes which have arisen. An attempt is being made in the House to suggest that the Government has some other motivation or objective. Nothing could be further from the truth. The person who normally stands in this place has more reason than any Member of the House to ensure this outcome emerges and has a better track record than other Deputies on these matters.