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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 1 Feb 2006

Vol. 613 No. 4

Competition (Amendment) Bill 2005 [Seanad]: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

This Bill does not contain any practical proposals to tackle the enormous market power of large multiples nor any effective mechanisms to prevent them from abusing that power. If this legislation is enacted in its current form, it will lead to less choice for Irish consumers, greater consolidation of the market place and, ultimately, fewer Irish food products. The Bill will not provide any safeguards to ensure fair play in the food market and will give the largest retailers a legislative basis on which to squeeze out competitors without fear or sanction. They will be able to use every means at their disposal, including predatory pricing, demands for hello money and the abuse of credit terms or imposition of unfair contract terms on suppliers. If the Minister wants to ensure consumers benefit from cheaper prices, greater choice and competition in retailing, he needs to put real and meaningful controls in place to prevent unfair play in the food sector and to ensure meaningful competition in retailing.

This is an important Bill because, when the Minister decided to remove the 1997 groceries order and to strengthen the Competition Act, he originally intended to push the proposals through the Seanad and the Dáil but was threatened with revolt by the Opposition. The Bill has now passed through the Seanad but, during the debate, the Minister refused to accept any amendments. He reiterated his claim that predatory pricing is already covered by the Competition Act and does not merit further mention. He also maintained that the order is no longer needed. I agree that free trade and competition is important but predatory pricing could easily be incorporated into this legislation without restricting the market.

The seeds of Ireland's booming economy were sown by the rainbow Government and we currently have full employment, a GDP growth of twice the EU average and interest rates at a 50 year low. We are spending more money than ever and people in many areas are experiencing a fantastic quality of life. However, while the phrase "rip-off Republic" is regularly referred to, we have instead a rip-off Government.

We are looking in the wrong place for an explanation for the higher prices in Ireland compared to anywhere else. This week, it was reported that Dublin is one of the most expensive capital cities in Europe. That is one reason for the high cost of doing business here. We need to look at the facts, put aside flawed analyses and hold a serious and balanced debate on why prices in Ireland are higher than elsewhere.

Small businesses are no different from any other consumer group. They too can feel pressure or go under. The reality is that, to survive, small businesses have to put the consumer first because the customer is the bottom line and backbone of any successful company. The boom in the economy was driven by small companies with fewer than ten staff. The definition of SME in this country differs from anywhere else in Europe, yet there is little or no support for service or manufacturing companies with fewer than ten employees. That is a major mistake because large oaks grow from small acorns. The small companies that drove this economy not only work 40-hour weeks but also 40-hour weekends.

A company operating in the trading sector of the economy has no opportunity to increase prices because the market and competitors will not allow it to do so. This is evident in figures which reveal a 12% decrease in factory gate prices and the loss of 38,000 Irish manufacturing jobs since 2002 and is a result of this high cost economy. People can go to Mexico or European countries with lower business costs. The high costs here are driven by the economy and by indirect taxation but the Government has the ability to drive down those costs. Consumers pay higher prices where there is inadequate competition within the regulated services sector. Sectors of the economy which are self-regulated have seen prices rise faster than inflation. This occurs mainly in State monopolies. The entire economy must be subjected to the same level of competition to provide a level playing field.

It is often forgotten that price increases by Irish business do not necessarily mean profit increases. Irish businesses are also vulnerable to cost increases, which are reflected in prices. The reality is that most of the price increases borne by businesses and consumers in Ireland are direct results of Government and public sector utilities. We need to compare like with like. Prices are different in Spain and Portugal because the costs there are lower. Irish wage costs are 134% of the EU average and our VAT rate is 4% higher.

Irish businesses now pay energy costs that are 25% higher than the EU average and 41% higher than those in the UK, including Northern Ireland. These costs are controlled by the Government and ultimately the customer pays. These are the stacked-up costs that affect profitability. Water and waste charges have increased by 31% over the past two years while rents have increased by 22%. Insurance and distribution costs are also way above the EU average. The list goes on.

As someone involved in the retail sector, I do not want protection from my competitors but I want a fair chance to compete. Small retailers do not need different rules or interference in the marketplace but neither do they need the bureaucracy, the stacked-up costs and the excessive regulation. While some regulation is welcome, much of it is not needed. I do not think it is right that some of the larger competitors can avail of a regulatory environment that effectively copperfastens their enormous scale and significant market power.

I have first-hand knowledge of some of the practices that are banned under the groceries order and which the Minister is purporting to outlaw in this legislation. It is time that he and his officials recognised that large retailers are not charitable institutions. They increasingly put pressure on suppliers to extract terms that are often unfair and disproportionate. It is important that the rebates and LTAs are passed on at the end of the year. While I fully agree with the abolition of the 1987 groceries order, it is important that we pay attention to LTAs and the other benefits enjoyed by the large multiples, particularly when we look at the scale of some of them.

The top four multiples in the UK operate in forecourts and small stores and sell newspapers, groceries and much more, but in some small towns in Britain there are no retail outlets. This is not just about the development and retention of small grocery stores but also about retail distribution and the life and soul of towns and villages. This issue is especially important in light of the suburban development throughout this country, with thousands of houses being built every year. In that context it is very important that a local retail culture is promoted and encouraged to avoid traffic congestion such as that which will occur on the M50 with the Ikea development. The new cathedrals of this country are the shopping centres, which are full on Sundays, with people driving 50 or 60 miles to get to them.

When one looks at the level of development throughout this country, one should bear in mind the example of the UK. Small retailers do not want a form of protectionism, but they are concerned with equality of access for customers in small villages and towns. With regard to the provision of comparable services, companies such as Musgraves, BWG Foods and similar groups are well able to compete with the multiples on terms, merchandise and price but they cannot compete with unfairness or predatory pricing.

Some multiples with enormous buying power run a promotional offer in only two stores, even though they have 100 outlets. For the sake of fairness, they should be obliged by law to run such offers in every store for the same period. There should also be no restriction on such offers, where a customer can buy only two products, for example. If a customer wishes to buy ten products, he or she should be allowed to do so. The multiples' practice of allowing only two items per customer on a promotion is predatory pricing. It is a way of attracting customers with lead-in pricing and minimising risk. I am amazed that the Minister has not taken this issue on board. We must remember that the retail space per head of population in Ireland is nine times greater than in the UK.

I am aware of the practice of demanding so-called hello money and of the abuse of credit terms and the devastating impact these can have on cash flow and investment by food companies. I am alarmed that the Minister, in this legislation, is only introducing an equivocal ban on the demanding of hello money and the imposition of unfair contract terms while expressly omitting any provision to deal with the abuse of credit terms. The legislative provisions categorise such unfair practices as misdemeanours, which renders enforcement very difficult.

It is inconceivable that any supplier would initiate legal proceedings against a retailer to seek redress. It would be commercial suicide for any food supplier to sue a retailer, even if the process were more straightforward than that provided for in this Bill. This is why an impartial referee is so important for the effective implementation of the legislation.

Sadly, I do not share the Minister's belief that the Competition Authority can deliver the goods for consumers or act as an arbiter of competition in this sector. When I was Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, the Competition Authority appeared before that committee to discuss its work progress. It was a sad, disappointing and uninspiring performance by the authority, which indicated that it had a very low expectation of its work output and a very strange set of investigative priorities. In fact, the authority had done little or no work at that point. There seemed to be an unwillingness to tackle large problems within the economy but a preparedness to go for softer targets. The authority was unable to take on the big guns but could deal with the small fry. The Minister's confidence in the Competition Authority is misplaced. Such confidence should be earned rather than given without question.

I am concerned that the Minister has not made any provision to deal with unfair trading practices by larger companies in the retail grocery sector. The Competition Act does not provide an effective mechanism to deal with such abuses. It requires a finding of dominance at either national or local level, which can be difficult to secure. Without effective controls over abusive behaviour by non-dominant multiples, significant damage will be inflicted on the indigenous retailing sector. Ultimately we will see less competition, employment and investment in the retail sector.

The primary effect of this Bill will be to consolidate the retail grocery trade, to make the big players even bigger, to reduce the choice of retailers and to impact negatively on the food industry. The Minister needs to face up to this before he blindly walks us into more difficulties.

I am concerned about the operation of the provisions of this Bill and also about the fact that it only applies to food and drink and excludes household and personal hygiene products. The groceries order applied to food, alcohol and household necessities, but now a swathe of products formerly covered by the order can be subject to unfair trading practices without recourse to the new protection offered by the legislation. The Bill contains no provision to deal with predatory pricing. The Minister has argued that predatory pricing is adequately dealt with under existing competition law but I dispute that. It is very disappointing that he has not acted on that issue.

The Bill outlaws resale, price maintenance, the demanding of hello money and the imposition of unfair contract terms, but only for goods covered by the legislation and only if it can be shown that these practices reduce competition in the State. In other words, the legislation does not impose an outright ban on such practices. Furthermore, the Bill does not treat engagement in such practices as criminal offences, contrary to every other prohibition within the Competition Act. It effectively treats these practices as misdemeanours that will not attract any criminal sanction. No one will be fined or imprisoned for breaching the provisions of the Bill when it is enacted and that is a major deficit.

The removal of the 1987 groceries order was a good thing. It served the retailing sector effectively but the grocery sector has changed with the huge growth in the economy. The experience in Britain, where the four main players are totally dominant, is that very few retailers are second generation traders. It is important that the Minister realises that the retailing sector in Ireland is not afraid of competition but it wants fair terms by which people can compete. We do not want a monopoly within the State. Up to 70% of the market in Ireland is controlled by three main players and the Minister must strive to increase this number in the coming years. The alternative would be regretted by the small communities that have invested in and been served by economic growth in the retailing sector.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute on this Bill while being sensitive to and saddened by the fact that I do so on a day when we mourn a former Deupty for the Tallaght area, Ruairí Brugha.

I have listened carefully to the debate and I have heard supermarkets mentioned repeatedly. The presence of Deputy Finian McGrath reminds me that if it were not for Tesco, Down's Syndrome Ireland would not have done so well from the sales of more than 3,000 CDs that the Deputy managed to sell before Christmas. When I got into my car this morning, I played "Bad, Bad Leroy Brown" all the way in from Tallaght. It shows that supermarkets have their uses. Tesco outlets all sold that CD on behalf of Down's Syndrome Ireland and I compliment all concerned. I look forward to hearing Deputy Finian McGrath's plans for his recording career.

It is finished.

I always try to bring my own experience to Dáil debates. I have a background in the grocery trade. My first job after I left school was in a grocery shop in London. When I came home, I got a job with Carton Brothers, an old Irish company with connections to Carrickmacross, in Halston Street where it had a cash and carry. After that I progressed to another company, Lee and Company, which held the Mace franchise. There were at least two Mace shops in Carrickmacross so the Ceann Comhairle will be aware of my experience. Over the years I always took an interest in the grocery trade. Had I not been working in Lee and Company in 1969, I would not have moved to Tallaght and would not live there now. God only knows what I would be doing.

The Deputy would have been an MP, like George Galloway.

I moved to Tallaght with an employer in 1969 and got involved in the community. Unlike some colleagues, I did not sit at my school desk saying I wanted to be a Deputy. That was never in my plans. All I wanted to do was succeed in the grocery trade. Life turns in all sorts of directions, although I have not been offered a record contract yet.

The Deputy has a safe seat, unlike me.

I do not have a safe seat. The Deputy should not put that about. I say that about my former career because I have concerns about this business, not only from my background but also because over the years I have tried to support in my own small way the neighbourhood shop.

Tallaght is now the third largest population centre in the country and is dominated by the Square, which opened 15 years ago and which has attracted more than 130 shops and several department stores. Tallaght is a mixed area. In 1990, when we were preparing for the opening of the Square, many people said the neighbourhood shops would not survive and would close within months. Now, in 2006, the local community in Springfield is served by numerous local shops. There must be a balance in this business.

There are mixed views on this, something we should encourage in a democracy. I hope to attend the briefing on this Bill by executives from RGDATA tomorrow morning because it is important that we listen to what people are saying. We have received correspondence from RGDATA, which does a good job of representing small grocers, and it is concerned about the repercussions of this Bill for the trade and consumers.

The Minister should try to strike a balance. The consumer is important and prices should be controlled. I know of the concerns about competition and prices, we all listen to our constituents talking about them. Deputy Perry made the point that the economy is growing and people are working but there is always a need for the Government to keep an eye on prices and to ensure people get value for money.

I note the provisions in the Bill to prevent unfair trading. Considerable media attention has been paid to this subject and not all of it has been well informed. It is easier to make allegations than to sustain them and there is always an audience for those who play to the gallery. It is good to note that the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment has been working progressively in the area of unfair trading, updating legislation soon after it is enacted to reflect the rapidly changing circumstances in every sector, not just the grocery trade, in a period of rapid economic development.

I am accused of praising Ministers but I am not afraid to do that. They do their jobs well. Deputy Martin is a good Cork person.

Are the rest of us bad Cork people?

The Minister is a good man who visits Tallaght occasionally. He helps create an awareness of the area's requirements and promotes the need for more jobs.

After Dublin and Cork, Tallaght is the third largest population centre in the State. Given the area's young population, with 25,000 young people still at school, we need to continue to apply pressure for further job creation, as I have done for the past three and a half years and intend to do in a positive manner in the 500 days leading up to the next general election. I hope the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, as he travels from county to county, including Cork on occasion, will remember the many needs of Dublin South-West.

I remind Deputies that my constituency also includes Firhouse, Greenhills, Templeogue and Brittas.

The Deputy is giving the House a tour of his constituency.

It is where I live.

What about the people of Coolock, Marino and Artane?

Deputy Finian McGrath always mentions every street in Marino and Fairview. I merely do my best to emulate him and other greats in terms of promoting my area. I am positive about Tallaght and if Deputies wish to visit it, they should jump on the Luas and I will show them the 20 cranes at work in the town centre. It is a positive place and long may that continue.

Will the Deputy return to the debate?

If my comments were not part of the debate, the Ceann Comhairle would correct me. I must be within the parameters of parliamentary debate if the Ceann Comhairle is satisfied.

I welcome the focus in the legislation on areas such as resale, price maintenance and practices such as compelling other parties to pay advertising allowances and providing what was described yesterday as hello money. All repellent, anti-competitive practices engaged in by those concerned with maximising their profits demonstrate a complete indifference to the effect such practices have on the retail customer.

I am pleased to note the Bill gives aggrieved persons and the Competition Authority a similar right to take an action against would-be rip-off merchants, either in the Circuit Court or High Court. Also welcome is the removal of a number of limitations on the functions of the Competition Authority connected to its right to pursue in the courts those engaged in anti-competitive practices. As is evident from the Bill, some of the anti-competitive practices to which I referred have been the subject of statutory orders in the past. It is good they are being addressed in this legislation to amend the Competition Act 2002. The Bill is welcome as it will undoubtedly work towards removing anti-competitive practices which work against customers at the supermarket check-out and grocery shop counter.

We are all committed to ensuring citizens continue to take an interest in the business of the Houses and I make a small contribution in this regard. Wiser colleagues have advised me to ensure groups, organisations and schoolchildren from our constituencies visit the Houses as often as possible. I note it is quiet in the Visitors Gallery today, which is fine. Perhaps I should not repeat the words of my constituency colleague, Deputy Rabbitte, who once stated that those who watch "Oireachtas Report" are either insomniacs or have taken a couple of drinks. The Deputy's remarks may be half accurate. Unfortunately, the image projected of the House sometimes is that no work is done here and Members are largely absent. I hope Deputies will continue to make an effort in this regard.

It is important that members of the public are aware of what is said and done in the House. This legislation has generated considerable public interest. It will impact on people's pockets on a daily basis given that every family spends some time each week shopping. People will follow this debate and will come to regard this important legislation as a step in the right direction. A certain amount of tweaking of it may still be necessary and new measures may need to be introduced.

I was brave enough to express some concern about the legislation arising from my background in the grocery trade and the responses I have heard from people who used to work with me. The Minister's role is to exercise vigilance about prices. This Bill will affect prices. In a colourful contribution yesterday, one of my colleagues described how people are lured into supermarkets by the prospect of items being given away only to be ripped off on the price of other items. I hope the Department will be vigilant about such practices. Ultimately, the priority must be to ensure consumers reap benefits and enjoy value for money.

It is universally accepted that the economy is in good shape, people have work opportunities they did not have in the past and the requirements of young people seeking jobs are being met. Moreover, unlike many Irish people in the past, including me and members of my family, we no longer need to emigrate. We must ensure economic progress continues and people get value for money. In this context, I am not afraid to criticise when criticism is necessary. Constituents of mine and visitors to the country complain that while Ireland has made significant progress, it has become a different place and one is ripped off in restaurants and other businesses. The focus of the legislation is on the grocery trade but it is also necessary to examine these wider issues. We must ensure people continue to benefit from the progress which will, I hope, be sustained as a result of another partnership deal.

I welcome the opportunity to make a brief contribution to this important debate and I intend to listen to many more contributions. The Minister and Minister of State are on the right track, although it may be necessary to tweak the legislation. As always, a debate will be necessary as people voice their views on the Bill but it will secure broad support. I hope the Minister will ensure it is properly implemented and prevent businesses from running amok with prices in order that the public will come to regard it as progressive legislation.

Small shops are being wiped out by big business, which has the ear of Government. Recently at the Galway Races big businesses went into the tents and got their way because the Minister gave in as he did a long time ago. Dunnes and Tesco control most of the market now. Not long ago we had no Sunday shopping. Now we have shopping seven days a week and 24 hours a day. People used to say England was a pagan country. In England there is respect for Sunday as a day for religion or family. Small businesses will be badly affected by this Competition Bill. While I want to see competition I also want to see fairness and protection for small businesses but that will not happen. Instead the big companies will grow bigger.

I recently read in the newspaper that Tesco has identified another 100 stores for Ireland. Not alone is it entering big towns and cities but it is now prepared to go into small towns of 2,000 and fewer. In County Mayo there are three major towns, Castlebar, Ballina and Westport. Ballina has Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi and all the supermarkets. What will happen to Kiltimagh, Swinford, Westport and Louisburg? All the shops in these areas have been put out of business by supermarkets. It was bad enough in the past when Dunnes was at it, and now we have Tesco which takes its profit out of the country, pays little tax and operates its business outside the State while our own people are not protected.

I remember a factory in Westport that made underwear for a certain store here. Every week the store said it could buy this product cheaper elsewhere and of course it did. It closed the factory and the industry and avails of cheap labour abroad to bring cheap clothes here. Dunnes did the same with bread. It bought its bread for the entire country from Neville's of Cork. That bakery is no longer in operation but meanwhile every small bakery in the country — and one must remember that each bakery employed people who worked, lived and shopped in that town and sent their children to school there — closed because big business grew bigger.

The groceries order did not protect them.

It was introduced afterwards to protect them.

We saw what happened when Deputy Fiona O'Malley's father was a Minister and big business gave millions of euro to taoisigh of this country and did not even miss it. Do not talk to me about big business. I know how big business operates here. Were the Deputies ever at the Galway races?

What about Fine Gael at the Punchestown races?

They should go and see how big business operates. Big businesses need not go to the TD clinic but can go to the Galway races with their cheque books and have legislation changed. That happens and there is nobody to protect the small man, not even Deputy Martin Brady, who does not count because he is not in the Cabinet.

If Deputy Kenny had his way Deputy Ring would not be there at all.

Deputy Martin Brady should watch his own seat. I do not say he will lose his seat but according to a recent opinion poll 17 Fianna Fáil seats will be lost. Some small business people are waiting for the election.

These multinational stores are coming into Ireland and wiping up. I welcome competition, but it must be fair. The concept of "hello money" did not begin in the supermarket business but migrated there from politics. If one did not offer money to the buyer one's goods were not put on the shelf or on the market. That is not a fair system and it probably still happens.

Did Ben Dunne fix Deputy Ring up?

Dunnes or Tesco should not put on special offers in a small rural town because they want to close down a few rural shops. If Dunnes or Tesco put on offers they must do so throughout the country and they must be fair, and not just target the people they want to put out of business. Rural Ireland will have no rural schools, Garda stations or shops and if the planners get their way we will have no rural people. If Fianna Fáil is left in government much longer nobody will be left in rural Ireland because it wants them all in Dublin city.

We will have rural TDs.

Although Dublin has the best roads and cars people cannot drive them anywhere because they are in traffic jams for two or three hours every day. If that is what the Government wants to offer, good luck to Fianna Fáil but the people will soon speak.

If the Competition Bill was introduced by anybody other than the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, I would be happy. He made a mess of education and health and has already made a mess of his current ministry.

Last week the Minister, Deputy Martin, visited my constituency but did not invite me to meet him although I had invited him to visit. As I would not go anywhere I was not invited I did not meet him although he met all the Fianna Fáil lap dogs. I was surprised the Minister did not want competition when he came to my town as he wishes to administer competition in the country. I will tell the Deputies what he did and what RTE — which must not have had much to cover that day — did.

There is a company in my town, Westport, that employs 120 people and the Minister promised them 20 jobs next year. There was no mention of the 400 jobs we lost in Allergan last year. The Minister went to Cork the next day and announced 1,000 jobs. If that is what we depend on, God help this country and that Department. As I said, the Minister, Deputy Martin, made a mess of education and health and will make a mess of trade too. The Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, was welcome to the west last weekend where he received a stormy welcome, although not in my town.

I enjoyed it all the same.

I was glad to see him there. I ask the Minister of State to take a message to the Minister. If we are to have no barriers or protection for the small people then let us have open competition. There is no point bringing this legislation through the Dáil if we will not put an inspectorate in place. How many people have been prosecuted for overcharging, below-cost selling or failing to have proper signage? There is no point talking about competition if the Department does not implement the law and give the inspectorates powers to inspect what the supermarkets are buying, where and how they are buying it and the price at which they sell it. We must have fair competition. I am sad to speak on this legislation because it is the death knell for small shops. I am disappointed in Fianna Fáil, which always looked after the small man and woman.

We are proud of it. We will continue to do so.

We are looking after Deputy Ring and he is a small man.

It has been polluted by the Progressive Democrats which is taking over. Fianna Fáil was once the party for everybody but is now the party for big business. Its attitude is "to hell with the small man or woman". God help the Fianna Fáil Deputies because there are more small men and women in this country than big business people.

I always enjoy listening to Deputy Ring's contributions. A former Member of this House who is now deceased, Seán Doherty, used to say that he taped Deputy Ring's contributions and played them in bed on a Sunday night. I think I will start taping him as well because not too long ago he said that there were too many inspectors in the Department of Social and Family Affairs and that they were going out like little generals annoying his constituents. I am glad that he has changed his stance on that.

The Deputy is attacking the small man again, not the big fellow.

I agree with him on some issues and he speaks a lot of sense. I welcome the modification of the competition law. There is now an onus on the Competition Authority to prevent predatory or abusive behaviour in the retail grocery trade. In my constituency of Dublin North-East, there are 26 shops belonging to RGDATA. We did numerous surveys in Dublin and other parts of the country. I was in Athlone one evening and I went into a Costcutters shop in Connaught Street and there were two jars of coffee that were cheaper than coffee on special offer in a larger store. As Deputy Ring pointed out, the customers are being conned and consumers are being cajoled into these large stores. They often spend half an hour queueing to buy three or four items and some of these people are elderly and living on their own.

It is very important to protect small businesses and to ensure that there is a level playing pitch. If small businesses in rural areas are put out of business, the people in those areas may have to travel two or three miles to the big store. This may be impossible for some elderly people who then become isolated. There is a social aspect to it as well. Many small shops in villages in Great Britain have been wiped out completely and even the villages have been wiped out. People must travel five to ten miles away from the village to purchase goods.

Businesses such as bakeries and so on were put out of business not so long ago because the people were treated like slaves. The person delivering bread to a large store today must stock the shelves because suppliers are treated like slaves. That does not happen in the small central store, which is very important to the local community. Having said that, I welcome the decision by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to strengthen the Act to ban predatory and abusive behaviour. I have long contended that the Competition Act 2002 was deficient in dealing with anti-competitive behaviour in the grocery sector. I lobbied the Minister to ensure that any repeal of the groceries order is matched by a strengthening of the Competition Act. We are pleased that he has responded.

It is good to listen to the Opposition, especially Deputy Ring. He gives me a little spurt now and then that revitalises me in a certain way. Sometimes he is better than a tonic. He makes sense because he is a rural TD and he knows what is going on. Many of these large stores have buyers that are travelling to Korea and other countries where there is slave labour, with children of 12 to 14 years of age sleeping on the job, not being properly paid nor properly fed and who are abused in every sense imaginable. The consumer should be made aware of what these stores are engaged in. I believe that the consumer should be given a choice on price, but price is not always the biggest issue. Sometimes consumers change their minds when made aware of where the goods come from. We do not support goods on the shelves that have arrived as a result of slave labour and the abuse of young children. As a former trade union official, I would never condone that.

The groceries order was brought in as a temporary measure in 1987, but it has survived numerous reviews and assessments. It has been a positive policy instrument and has attracted widespread support from many organisations and individuals. Deputy Ring said that everyone will be put out of business, but I doubt Deputy Ring will be put out of business. The order has left a positive legacy because it has given us an opportunity for debate. I hope that we support the small player in this business. Since the Lemass era, Fianna Fáil has always supported the small businessman or woman. Such people represent the backbone of this country and if we lose sight of them, we will pay the price, both economically and otherwise.

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on this very important Bill. I welcome the timely arrival of the Bill in the House. I lobbied very strongly for the retention of the groceries order because I felt that protection was vital for many of our smaller traders. I accept and respect the decision of the Minister, Deputy Martin, because he felt that there was a better way to protect these people. He has pointed out that during the lifetime of the groceries order from 1987 onwards, approximately 2,000 small shops closed down. The Minister felt, therefore, that the order was not giving the necessary protection. I am not perturbed about how we protect the small trader, whether it is by the groceries order or by the Competition Act, we just need a level playing pitch.

Coming from a rural constituency in west Limerick, I am very conscious of the contribution made to the local economy by our small shopkeepers and small supermarket owners. These people have been plucky enough to invest substantial money in business in a small town or village in west Limerick and elsewhere. They have given employment to ten to 20 local people, which is very valuable. It is for those reasons, as well as for the convenience of the local consumer, that we should give every protection possible to those businesses to make sure that they can be sustained in the future. I have no doubt the Minister is setting out to do that and I wish him well.

As one who faced the decision recently, before I left Limerick County Council, to rezone lands for the arrival of Tesco in the county town of Limerick, Newcastlewest, I welcomed the multiple because I believed consumers there and in surrounding areas were entitled to a choice. It was Tesco's first venture into County Limerick and it came to Newcastlewest. I wish it well provided the playing pitch remains level.

Deputy Ring referred to Fianna Fáil having the ear of big business. I did a radio interview recently, the day the building regulations were announced. The first question Matt Cooper asked me was what our builder friends in Fianna Fáil thought of all this. Sometimes I ask myself why developers and builders and 40% of the public support Fianna Fáil. Is it not perhaps because Fianna Fáil has got the climate right in Ireland for many years and supported small business? By supporting small businesses, we have helped them grow into big businesses. We have got the climate right and Commissioner McCreevy has made this point consistently about support for business. We are seen as a rich man's Government, but when those businesses are thriving, they give employment and the knock-on effect is felt all along the line. It is the right policy and I commend Commissioner McCreevy on adopting it while in government.

Mention was again made of the Galway races and the Fianna Fáil tent, which I cannot understand, since I believe Fine Gael is to have a tent at the Punchestown races. We did not hear any mention of it. Perhaps that party is taking a leaf from our book, and I welcome that. There is nothing wrong with it. I have never been fortunate enough to be in the Fianna Fáil tent, but perhaps I may at some stage.

Perhaps the Deputy was not rich enough.

I want to outline some of the concerns raised by some of the traders and shopkeepers in my constituency. There appears to be a great emphasis on outlawing predatory pricing, irrespective of the market share of the perpetrator. This issue in particular needs to be dealt with under the Bill. I welcome the Minister's comments on the abolition of the groceries order when he said predatory pricing was anti-competitive and outlawed by the provisions of the Competition Act. The groceries order was incapable of addressing the threat of predatory pricing, so I welcome the fact that the problem can be dealt with by amending the legislation in this way.

Another issue people are concerned about is the definition of grocery goods and they say it needs to be widened to outlaw so-called hello money comprehensively. Again, my colleague, Deputy Ring, alluded to hello money being offered to Fianna Fáil politicians. I believe others in the grocery trade offered such money as well to politicians from other parties. The precedent was probably set in that instance as well. The Minister, on the subject of "hello" money, announced that the Government will publish new legislative proposals shortly to strengthen greatly the provisions of the Competition Act 2002 to prohibit specifically the fixing of minimum retail prices by suppliers, resale price maintenance, unfair discrimination and the payment of advertising allowances and "hello" money. I welcome that very much and hope this legislation can succeed in its purpose

Restriction of offers of discount items must be outlawed along with confining a loss-leading campaign to a geographical market or single location. The latter practice is quite unfair and if it must be done, it should be undertaken nationally to level the playing pitch further. Advertisements for loss-leading items should state whether the reduction in prices is being recovered through other items in the basket, which often can amount to quite a number of grocery items. The issue of prompt payment to suppliers needs to be especially addressed, as it was under the groceries order.

I am glad to have had the opportunity of participating briefly in this debate. I commend the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, and his two Ministers of State, Deputy Killeen and Deputy Michael Ahern, on the work they are doing in the Department. Deputy Ring referred to the Minister coming to Ballina and announcing 20 jobs. When my constituency was in difficulty about 11 months ago and some 120 poultry jobs were lost in Kantoher, west Limerick, the Minister took time to meet people there. He gave a local group encouragement. He made the various State bodies available to this group. I am glad to report that before we arrive at the first anniversary of this occurrence, three separate indigenous companies have been installed on the site of the former Kantoher chicken processing plant and that news is very welcome.

It is unfair of Deputy Ring to say he does not trust the Minister. I trust him wholeheartedly and wish him well. I am quite sure he will do what Fianna Fáil and this Fianna Fáil-led Government has always done, namely, protect the smaller businessperson. It will ensure that smaller shops will not close. Such shops have provided vibrancy in communities and underpinned the local economy. They provide gainful employment and choice to consumers and this must be acknowledged. It is not all about price, it is about convenience as well. Many consumers like to have the option of convenience and choice. I believe there is the best of both worlds in this country. We should protect what we have to ensure this continues and that we have sustainability for smaller shops so that they may survive.

To refer to the previous speaker's point about it not being just a matter of price, that is the entire argument. Ultimately that is what the debate is about. No one will be exercised too much about the competition amendment before the House, yet it is something about which we need to be seriously concerned. The Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, on which I serve, did a year-long trawl of the grocery trade and asked all of the major operators to come and speak to it about barriers to competition and what they believed should be done. Apart from Dunnes Stores, all the major stakeholders of the grocery industry attended and made substantive presentations to the committee. Not one of them asked that the groceries order be revoked.

Aldi and Lidl said that were it not for the groceries order, they would not be in Ireland today. They made a very clear, coherent case. They said they deal in a limited range of goods — 1,000 approximately. Deputy Hogan may correct me if I am wrong. That figure may change over the course of the trading year. However, that is basically the volume they deal in. If the groceries order had not been in place, then any of the multiples could simply have reduced their prices dramatically on the range of goods Aldi and Lidl limit themselves to and forced them out of business or compelled them not to enter the market in the first place.

If something works, why change it? If it is not broken, why say one is going to fix it, for the sake of publicity, gloss or spin? That is exactly what this is about — publicity, gloss and spin. That committee came up with a comprehensive report before the Minister made his decision. In the meantime, a supposedly parallel investigation was being carried out by the consumer strategy group.

Exactly. That group was running a parallel investigation. My information is that it did not speak to any of the multiples or to Aldi or Lidl. It simply put a basket of goods together. Deputy O'Connor spoke earlier and I feel slightly car sick after the journey, given that he has been everywhere in the country with regard to his position on the grocery trade.

I have a background in groceries too. It is called doing the weekly shopping. I have never considered a bottle of Bacardi to be a grocery item in my weekly shopping. I fully accept that the people in the consumer strategy group are of a different breed. I have a family to feed so I cannot sit down with electric toothbrushes — another item in the grocery basket — drinking Bacardi and whiling away the hours watching Oprah Winfrey.

The group's statistics were off-beat and wrong. It got the VAT rate wrong, for example, which seems incredible for a group that was established by the Minister to examine the grocery trade and the cost of groceries for the average shopper. If that flawed information were a poll taken about a political party, it would be dismissed out of hand as being too narrow in focus, not addressing the issues and getting the candidates wrong. However, on the basis of this group's recommendation, the Minister decided to revoke the groceries order. It is quite staggering.

The group was incorrectly informed on the issue of predatory pricing. The Competition Act does not ban predatory pricing but bans unfair pricing by companies in a dominant position. As none of the supermarket retailers is in a dominant position, that is, owning 40% of the market, they could not be prosecuted for engaging in predatory pricing under the provisions of section 5 of the Competition Act 2002. The group got that wrong. I believe this group is still in existence. If so, the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern, should not listen to it again unless its members can prove their credentials or at least prove that they can do the type of research a first year commerce student is expected to do.

We should be aware of food poverty. There are different types of poverty in society. There is the obvious poverty of lack of money but there is also food and fuel poverty. There is a clear definition of food poverty. Living in poverty and social disadvantage imposes constraints on food consumption in three main ways. It affects food affordability through the choice and quality of food that can be bought and the share of the household budget that is allocated to food. That is straightforward. It impacts on access to food through the retail options available and the capacity to shop in terms of transport and physical ability. It impacts on the availability of storage and cooking.

Deputy Cregan said the issue is not just cost. I could not agree with him more. It is about access as well. The committee of which I am a member and which produced a comprehensive report deals with all these matters. Its sixth recommendation states that while price is important, the joint committee believes there are broader social issues which need to be considered in the context of the ban on below cost selling. These relate to the need for the consumer to have a choice of grocery shops within a reasonable distance of his or her home.

I read the Minister's speech to the Seanad on this issue in which he tried to debunk the argument about what has taken place in Great Britain with the arrival of massive retail parks. He said that every household in England now lives within 4 km of a petrol station with an attached convenience store. Sometimes people lose the run of themselves when they take certain positions. What if one does not have a car and one runs out of milk at breakfast or tea time? We have all been in that situation. Would one run to the shop for a litre of milk when it is 4 km away? The notion that this is the type of access people should have to provide food for themselves and their families is outrageous. The arguments the committee heard on this were such that it unanimously pleaded with the Minister, through its detailed report and recommendations, not to revoke the groceries order.

Why did the Minister do it? When he was Minister in the Department of Health and Children he had more publications than Rupert Murdoch. He revoked the order because it was populist to do so, not because it was right or wrong or because of the effect it would have. A television programme had heightened awareness about how we are being ripped off. I believe the programme, even though it was presented by a Cork man, was misinformed on the groceries order. However, it was popular and it was a quiet time for news so the groceries order was revoked.

As with the lack of protection for workers and the lack of an increase in the labour inspectorate, this is about the philosophy of letting the market rip, so to speak. The theory is to let others in because it will drive down prices. It will not drive down prices for me and the Minister but it will drive wages down for the ordinary working person and those trying to support their families. Now the groceries order is removed to let competition rip. The view of the Labour Party is that competition is about more than price. It is about good planning and access.

Crosscare and the Combat Poverty Agency came before the committee. They pointed out that many elderly people of a certain age do not drive. If they do not drive and there is no corner store or convenient Spar, Mace or SuperValu, where will they get their food? It is not as if we have a social service to support their needs; we do not. There have been cutbacks in the home help service. Even if one has a home help for an hour a day, it will take longer than an hour to travel to the retail outlet and return with the shopping. Why did the Minister do it?

Inflation in groceries was 1% in the negative up to May last year. Does the Minister hope to drive it down further? The "Morning Ireland" programme this morning should have made the Minister pause and, perhaps, change his mind. Statoil is about to sell its interests in Ireland. It says it is because of competition from the multiples. Statoil does not just sell oil but also groceries in convenience shops attached to the petrol stations. These are supposed to be 4 km from everybody's home but now they will be gone. If anything should rouse our interest, this should. This is about lack of access and lack of availability in the grocery industry.

There is no need to revoke this order aside from the Minister's need for another headline. A Fianna Fáil backbencher spoke some time ago about the Minister's promise to introduce legislation to protect the consumer. Why would he do that when he has revoked the groceries order? It is not related to predatory pricing so why do it? We are still trying to sort out the mess with the nursing homes after this Minister. Why are people so confident he has got this issue right? None of the multiples asked or said anything about the groceries order when they appeared before the committee. They spoke about hello and shelf money etc. They spoke about waste charges and the disposal of waste as additional costs that their counterparts in Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom do not have to carry to such an extent. However, none of them asked for the removal of the groceries order.

The chairman of the Competition Authority came to talk to the committee. He said he was not interested in access or planning, just in prices. He said he was not interested in anything except prices. I hope he does well with the fair trade commission in England. He was on his way out when he made that statement of course. He also told us that the abolition of the groceries order would save average shoppers €1,000 per year on their shopping basket. We have heard nothing about that since.

I advise others to do what I am going to do. When the Bill is enacted I will do a big shop and stick my receipt on the back of the kitchen door. In a year's time I will ask the Minister, Deputy Martin, or John Fingleton for my €1,000 because I guarantee the cost of my basket of groceries will not have reduced.

John Fingleton has gone to the UK.

Yes, but with Ryanair we can get there easily. This Bill is not about the protection of consumers, it is about letting the market rip. It is an outrageous stroke when this is an area the Minister did not need to tackle. He should be increasing the labour inspectorate with a view to the protection of workers, but that would cost the Department money. Who would see that money spent? One cannot unveil 30 inspectors, they would not stand for it, but that is what the Minister would like to do. I would like more detail on the reasons Statoil is leaving Ireland.

I believe the abolition of the groceries order will ensure we will have loss leaders in the trade. These will be deliberately advertised, something we see every day, but now there will be no holds barred. The corner shop we all knew will exist no longer. We accept the grocery trade has changed dramatically and that it is no longer the trade we knew. The symbol brands have taken the place of the corner shops. They are now a better convenience store. We drop into those stores on our way home when we have forgotten to get something. They provide a large range of commodities and a service to the community, not just to people like me but to people without transport and those who do not need to shop in bulk but who still want good quality food and service. There is no doubt these shops will now disappear, and their demise is being facilitated by the Minister.

I often remind people that few of us get the chance to make a mark or be remembered for something significant. This Minister will be remembered for many significant changes, all bad. It is amazing that someone who showed so much promise and potential cannot get it right. The Minister has gone through three Departments and I wonder which will be the next casualty.

I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak on this Bill which deals with an area close to my heart. Given my background in the food industry, both as a producer and in the context of my role in the Department of Agriculture and Food, it is an area in which I have first-hand experience.

It is important to record some general observations at the outset. I differ from my colleague, Deputy Lynch, with whom I sit on the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, with Deputy Hogan, and I compliment the Minister, Deputy Martin. It was an all-party committee that came up with the final result. I must praise the Minister, Deputy Martin. He inherited this legislation, but I believe he would not have produced it if he had been in the Department from the time the Government came into office. The Minister, Deputy Martin, is an innovative, modern and successful Minister who has done great work in all areas. However, I question his knowledge of the groceries order and the Irish food industry.

I compliment Deputy Cassidy, the chairman of the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. He is an innovative Chairman who runs a successful committee and challenges many areas and reports before the House. The report on the groceries order was a comprehensive document but it has been ignored by many in high office and positions. If it had been taken on board, we would not be here discussing this legislation which will destroy not only our retail sector but also our small food industry. Bord Bia and IBEC would agree with me with regard to this legislation. It is legislation the Minister has inherited that will make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

The food and retail sectors here have special importance in the State. For a country that is primarily a producer of food, the output of the food and drink industry is a significant contributor to our GDP. Currently, the agri-food and drinks sector account for more than 8% of Ireland's GDP, 8.4% of our exports and 9.1% of total employment. In employment terms there are nearly 110,000 people employed in agriculture and a further 47,000 directly employed in the food and drinks sector. In addition, there are more than 65,000 people employed in the distribution and sales of food in the retail grocery sector, with the lion's share of more than 40,000 employed in the independent retail grocery sector.

With in excess of 200,000 employees in total, the food and retail sector is a key and critical sector of our economy. It is also by its nature a labour intensive sector and one that has faced increased regulation from the EU. Increased regulation and high labour involvement inevitably lead to high labour costs. This has significant impact on competitiveness and the funds available for investment. The sector is volatile, given a high dependence on exports and a need for attractive routes to market in the home area.

I mentioned these aspects by way of background because it is important for us as legislators to understand the sometimes difficult market in which Irish food companies operate. We are not just talking about the large co-ops or food industries that have come to dominate key parts of the food market. There are many small and artisan producers, including many in my area, that have developed new and innovative products which they are anxious to bring to consumers. There are many small and medium sized food companies that benefit from supports from county enterprise boards, some of which will develop into more substantive production and manufacturing operations, supported by the Department — there goes another waste of taxpayers' money. It is important for such firms to have confidence in their dealings with retailers and that they are not subject to arbitrary, unjustified or unfair trading practices.

What will happen to the small retailers I have mentioned? The Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern, was in my town recently to launch three small units involved in the food industry. They have no more future than today's newspaper in that locality because they will not be wanted. Currently there is some friendliness from the large multiples towards small food manufacturers and cottage industries that make marmalades, jams and brown bread — something which is important to our tourists — and a range of other products. They may be a nuisance at the moment, but they will become a bigger nuisance when this Bill is passed. Whether they are in Cahirciveen, Waterville, Listowel, Mitchelstown, Cloyne, Dungarvan or wherever, they will be told that the multiples will accept certain products at their central distribution centres.

Therefore, Mrs. Murphy, or whoever, will be told to take her goods to the multiple's local distribution centre. How in God's name can someone running a small operation, with profits of €10,000 to €20,000 per year, whose produce is rightly acclaimed in his or her area, afford to travel to the central distribution centre? That has been the trend of the Irish multiples, especially the new ones coming to this island.

Large retailers are not charities and many use all means possible to extract the maximum saving from suppliers through the imposition of particular terms and conditions. We should never forget that we have a population of only 4 million and, bearing that in mind, we should note the three main areas of concern, namely, predatory pricing, the demanding of hello money and the abuse of credit terms.

The Financial Times is a paper of repute and is widely read not only in this country but across the world. I picked up a copy on Wednesday, 7 December 2005 and noted the following headline: “Cash benefit: how big supermarkets fund expansion by using suppliers as bankers”. By God, the article has something to say on the matter. What have we done in this country of 4 million people? The article, written by John Plender, Martin Simons and Henry Tricks states: “Examining the accounts of multinational retailers shows the increasing extent to which they draw on trade creditors to provide working capital for their stores.” Who read that article in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment?

The practice of demanding hello money, the abuse of credit terms and the imposition of unfair trading terms can all have a seriously negative impact on any existing or fledgling supplier businesses. It is important that such companies have the confidence and assurance that their businesses will not be undermined by avaricious behaviour by multiples. While they should not be cosseted from competition, it is essential that they be given a fair chance to develop and expand so as to encourage innovation and employment. I hope this is an objective with which the Minister can agree.

It is also vital that we understand that relationships within the retail grocery trade are often skewed by the enormous market power that a small number of large retailers have over a multitude of suppliers, consumers and competitors. This is relevant to the cottage and small food industries in Ireland. Given that two major multiples in the grocery trade have over 50% of the market, the power of these companies in terms of giving new and existing suppliers routes to market is considerable. The potential for a large retailer to abuse that power is ever-present and needs to be watched and controlled for the public good.

It is also important for suppliers to have access to different routes to market and that they not be solely dependent on large retailers. There are many significant food businesses in Ireland that secured their first break through a local shop. This relates to my point on small manufacturing industries, which will be a thing of the past if this amending legislation is passed in its entirety.

Ensuring that there is diversity and choice in retailing is critical, not just to the provision of shopping facilities locally but also to the supplier and production base. Innovation and change are part of modern commerce and this is nowhere more evident than in the retail grocery trade. There are new forms of stores, stores of new sizes and new operators trading at a time that has seen the advent of Internet retailing and various other retail formats. At the heart of it all, there is still a special place for local, independently owned retailers, who trade in their own town, as members of a symbol group or otherwise, and who are part of the community in which they operate. They source goods locally, employ locally, bank locally and invest locally. They provide a critical community service to a locality and while many compete on price, their primary hallmark pertains to service. In my constituency, Cork East, I have witnessed the manner in which the traditional independent retailers have been put under increasing pressure by other independent retailers, the multiples and the discounters.

I serve a constituency including Mallow, Cobh, Midleton, Youghal and Fermoy. Carrigtwohill has emerged as the fifth or sixth biggest town in the constituency and it has 3,500 people on the register of electors. Mitchelstown has 3,300 people on the register. Youghal is probably the darkest town in Ireland at present in respect of manufacturing jobs. Out of town on the Waterford side, there are Lidl and Tesco stores. There were two Supervalue stores in the town and one has closed. We have seen increasing fall-out in the retail sector in the town centre.

The Minister of State should listen to his fellow Corkman.

Our town centres will be denuded of their businesses, which we cherished for years, thus resulting in ghettos and apartments. They will be destroyed. Many of our local authorities are dependent on parking charges in the centre of towns to allow them run those towns. However, there is free parking in the out-of-town developments and this militates against the little shops and stores, such as Supervalue. In east Cork there are probably six Supervalue stores and other such stores. I have spoken to representatives from all these since I became a member of the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business and they told me they are under real pressure. Some of the shops will not survive. There are Centra, Mace and Spar stores also.

In Mitchelstown, from which I come, there is a Tesco store. For 18 years, there have been 3,300 people on the register of electors in the town. There is a Lidl store in the town and there is to be an Aldi store but there will be no shop in the main street before the next general election. I will be proved right in saying this because the shops on the street are under pressure because of parking restrictions and attractions in other locations, which I believe are not desirable.

In Youghal, for example, we have, over the past three years, seen the opening of a Lidl discount store and an out-of-town Tesco store. These are now competing alongside the existing town-centre retailers. There is no doubt in my mind that the location of out-of-town retailers has had a negative impact on the vitality and vibrancy of town centres.

A nail would be driven through the coffin of many town centre retailers if large retailers operating on the outskirts of towns were given additional ammunition to help undermine competitors within specific localities. For example, if Tesco and Lidl became involved in below-cost selling or predatory pricing in Youghal, they could inflict considerable damage on the viability of the existing town centre retailer, which is going out of business in spite of its high level of service and high quality produce.

The issues for discussion in this Bill go to the heart of the provision of retailing, not just in Dublin but in every town and village throughout the country. Issues arise as to whether competitors will be allowed to compete on the basis of fair or unfair market rules. I am concerned that this Bill is disjointed, in particular the provisions that suggest conditional prohibitions on appalling activities such as the demanding of hello money, the demanding of unfair contract terms and so forth. Under the groceries order these measures were banned outright, but in this legislation they are tolerated, except under certain conditions which I suspect will be complex.

I am deeply concerned that the Bill does not deal with the issue of predatory pricing.

The Government is falling asunder.

The Minister assures us that predatory pricing is covered by existing competition legislation but I have heard views from eminent senior counsel that contradict this contention. The Minister also says he is limited by EU rules in what he can do to strengthen competition legislation regarding predatory pricing. I doubt this and have heard contrary opinions from eminent senior counsel that do not support this view.

It is interesting that the drive to introduce this legislation and repeal the groceries order was borne out of comments by the National Consumer Agency and the Competition Authority to the effect that the changes would produce lower prices for consumers. The chairman of the consumer strategy group should lease a Centra store in Dublin and go into business. She would then find out how hard it is to run a business and make a margin while satisfying the supplier and consumer. I am convinced that the business would not be long in existence.

It concerns me to see the pace at which commentators and observers are retracting predictions of a boon for consumers on foot of the disappearance of this measure. I am deeply suspicious of the view that consumers will win as a result of the changes in this legislation. I am inclined to agree with comments contained in The Grocer magazine in the UK to the effect that the real winner of the changes will be Tesco. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment has not agreed that Tesco has dominated the UK market. I have been in London and all over England and have noted that it has. If the retail sector in England is doing so well and is as vibrant as the Minister and his advisers believe, why has the House of Commons put together an all-party committee to investigate the retail trade in the United Kingdom? There are many cities, towns, small hamlets and villages in the United Kingdom and, in some, Tesco has three shops, thereby dominating the market——

Hear, hear.

——and giving no choice to the consumer or freedom to the supplier. It is about time we refrained from following the route taken by England. That all happened under Mrs. Thatcher. The UK and US models of out-of-town shopping do not suit a country such as Ireland and never will because of our small population and rural identity.

Hear, hear.

Will the Minister of State withdraw the Bill?

I am glad I am supported by the Independents.

The Deputy has great support over here — he should join us.

It is worth recalling that the global turnover of Tesco is twice the entire output of the Irish agrifood sector. This cannot be doubted and it indicates Tesco's power and the control it has over suppliers, consumers and competitors. We all know the history of Tesco. It was established in the 1930s by a London barrow boy, Jack Cohen, and has developed into what it is today.

I urge the Minister to give open-minded consideration to the concerns that have been expressed by many of the groups that lobbied us in regard to this legislation. In particular, I ask the Minister to address the specific suggestion that the Competition Act 2002 does not provide adequate protection against predatory pricing and ask him to be inventive in seeking to bring forward solutions to address this situation.

Reference was made to Statoil. We all believe in profit. If one does not have money, one is in trouble. Today's Irish Independent contains an article headed: “Statoil to exit Irish petrol market in €250m sell-off.” Why is this the case? The article states:

The after-tax loss for the financial year amounted to €3.44m. This loss meant profits carried forward at the end of the year dropped from €28m in 2003 to €21.8m in 2004. Statoil's decision to exit Ireland is seen as a reaction to competition in a market which has become intensely competitive in the past number of years. Tesco's entry into the retail petrol market has put particular pressure on the profits of the major oil companies.

Statoil is a Norwegian company, more than 50% owned by the Norwegian Government. If the article is correct, Ireland will be in trouble. A further issue arises with regard to Wal-Mart, which we are told is one of the most competitive organisations of all. It is also the subject of an article in today's Irish Independent, which is headed: “Wal-Mart chief faces 28 years in prison for tax fraud.” I will say no more on that matter.

The Bill will destroy rural villages and towns. We must address the issues of predatory pricing, hello money and abusive credit terms. When this legislation is passed, the major retailers will sing all the way to the bank because they will take over the whole business and make huge profits, and the stock market will boom — I have an interest in the stock market, but I like to be fair about it. All a retailer would have to do in any town is to single out the shop that is competing with it, change its prices to make them more attractive, and the other shop would be ruined and out of business in six months. After two years, the retailer could raise its prices because it would have a monopoly.

Tesco is no angel — everyone knows that. We have seen what happened in the UK retail market with regard to Somerfield, Sainsbury's, Morrisons and Asda, which is owned by Wal-Mart. The Bill is not dealing with a simple task. The consumer strategy group which is in place has a right-wing approach which does not fit with the Irish way of life. We are trying to destroy the Irish retail sector. When we make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and get rid of the small retailers, we will have done a great job. Small cottage industry in rural Ireland — I say this to Deputy McHugh — which is run by those whom we cherish and admire for their innovation and lovely products, will be gone because the simple production centres will be targeted by the multiples, which want to get rid of them.

I am a close friend of the Minister, Deputy Martin, for whom I have great admiration and for whom bigger things may be in store. He must consider the legislation and not be advised and assisted by those who have advised him to date. He has been abused in this debate by my colleagues in the Labour Party with regard to the way he ran the health services. He ran the health services with distinction and credit and left a substantial health structure in place that we can be proud of into the next decade and beyond. His health systems, which did not receive funding at Cabinet level, are now being put in place by some of his colleagues. I feel annoyed about this issue. I wish the Minister well.

I wish to share time with Deputies Ó Caoláin and McHugh.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

It is well known that the Minister, Deputy Martin, and I come from the same community and parish. Our family homes are no more than 100 m apart. We share the same sense of affection for the community in which we were brought up, as well as sharing a sense of the character of that area. It has a combination of charms in the sense that it is only ten minutes walk from Cork city centre but it managed to maintain a village quality.

While much of that character remains in its people and its houses, in the past 20 years the economic life of Turner's Cross has all but evaporated. In that period, which coincides with the Minister's political career, within a quarter mile radius of both of our family homes 15 corner shops have gone out of business. One could say that this is the normal cut and thrust of economic life and that the groceries order, as it stood, did nothing to defend those businesses — I will address those points presently. However, not only were these economic outlets, but they played an important social role in my local community. They were places where people went to get their pint of milk — usually just one pint — a loaf of bread, a tube of toothpaste or an evening newspaper. As they dealt on that scale, it was unlikely that the type of savings that large multiples make and pass on to consumers were possible in those shops.

They were also places where people, being creatures of habit, would visit on a regular basis as a matter of ritual, and a person's absence would be commented on. On foot of that, visits were made to people who had not been seen of late in their local corner shops. These local shops were part of a social infrastructure that we have lost, with milkmen who deliver milk and regular post in local areas.

The Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ahern, might find this amusing, but as Deputy Ned O'Keeffe, his constituency colleague has just described, the same phenomenon is happening in the rural towns he represents.

The Deputy should not talk such rubbish.

It is the same phenomenon.

I come from the country also and I know more about this than the Deputy. I know more about Youghal than either the Deputy or Deputy Ned O'Keeffe.

The path the Government has embarked upon does not concern competition. It will lead us down the path of cartels to duopoly and, eventually, to single companies controlling the operation of retail activities in towns and villages.

The Minister, if he was so inclined, would have found the recent documentary about the Wal-Mart chain on RTE 2 television instructive. Wal-Mart is the supermarket chain that is all-pervasive in the United States. Not only has it seen off competition from other retail outlets and the American equivalent of small corner shops, it uses its economic muscle to put out of business suppliers within the US economy by putting constant downward pressure on the prices at which suppliers are asked to supply their goods. That same phenomenon and the same economic forces are in operation within the Irish economy. They will be stronger as a result of the policy route upon which the Government has embarked.

The Minister and I come from a part of the country that was home to the first Dunnes Stores, is home to Roches Stores and is headquarters of the Musgrave operation. Ironically, Musgrave is very much opposed to what the Government suggests because it knows that the threats to retail activity and the provision of proper service and price comparisons to the consumer are at the heart of what the Government proposes. In reality, a situation exists whereby there are no more than three or four multiples in Ireland. As a result of the Government proposals, I foresee this number reducing to one or two. Then, as Deputy Ned O'Keeffe described so articulately given that he is a Government Deputy, we will eventually see the "Tescofication" of the Irish retail market. How would that serve the interests of the Irish consumer?

This is a knee-jerk, panic reaction on the part of the Government on foot of the successful television programme, "Rip-Off Republic", hosted by Eddie Hobbs. Again, there is a useful link in that while the Minister was studying for his leaving certificate and I was studying for my intermediate certificate, Mr. Hobbs was in fifth year in the same school as both of us. This does not mean that everything uttered by Mr. Hobbs in "Rip-Off Republic" was correct. Most of what he said in highlighting much of the inefficiency and fraud at the heart of retail and services was correct. However, his belief that simply getting rid of the groceries order instead of strengthening it and making it more socially useful will benefit the consumer is fatally flawed.

The long-term effect of abolishing this type of social protection for local communities will be the scenario described by Deputy Ned O'Keeffe, myself and many other Deputies. The Government should be warned. The Minister of State should not sneer at this approach.

To what is Deputy Boyle referring?

The Minister of State will have the opportunity to reply to Deputy Boyle at a later stage.

I will not have the opportunity to reply to him. I would like to ask him what he was referring to.

The Minister of State laughed at my contribution seven times during the last five minutes.

I did not mention anything said by the Deputy.

If that is the case, the Minister of State did not listen to what I had to say and was laughing at something else.

I was listening to the Deputy's contribution.

The Minister of State cannot have it both ways.

The Deputy stated publicly that IFI should be closed down. When it closed down, he then stated that it should have been kept open. He is a twister.

The Minister of State must resume his seat.

The Deputy is a hypocrite.

The Minister of State must allow Deputy Boyle to continue.

Since we are talking about hypocrisy, I merely said that the Minister of State was laughing at my contribution.

The Deputy is a hypocrite.

The Minister of State was either listening to my contribution or sneering at it. Is this correct?

The record stands.

That interruption was unwarranted and I will not tolerate it. Deputy Boyle is entitled to speak and the Minister of State has the right to reply. I ask Deputy Boyle to proceed.

My time is limited, as is my patience. However, I have made my substantial point. In respect of hypocrisy, I will take no lessons from the Minister of State. Let us see the type of retail choice and opportunities in communities such as those in my constituency and Cork East that will result from this regressive legislation.

I commend Deputy Ned O'Keeffe on his welcome contribution which has opened a raw wound on the Government benches. Sinn Féin is adamantly opposed to the revocation of the groceries order. As my colleague, Deputy Morgan, stated, we believe it will result in less rather than more choice for the consumer. It will drive small independent shops out of business and out of the community.

Hear, hear.

We should examine the reasons behind the introduction of the groceries order. It was introduced in 1987 to prevent larger supermarkets using their muscle to pressurise suppliers and force competing retailers out of business. It was introduced after a number of high-profile traditional Irish businesses went out of business. It banned the predatory practice of selling goods at below cost price. It banned large retailers pressurising suppliers to pay so-called "hello" money or rental for shelf space in stores and abusing their suppliers' payment terms. It also banned price fixing of grocery goods and boycotts of suppliers and retailers. We should remember this.

The order aimed to protect small and medium-sized independent businesses and consumer choice. It is logical that a high market share for multiples means less choice for consumers. The market share of multiples is clearly increasing. For example, 40% of the groceries market in the State is controlled by two supermarket chains. When the groceries order is abolished, this percentage will increase. In the Dublin market, 75% of the groceries market is controlled by two supermarket chains. This is not competition and it is certainly not in the interests of customers or suppliers of goods and services.

The closure of community stores will have additional knock-on effects. It will lead to an increase in out-of-town shopping centres which will, in turn, lead to additional commuting traffic and congestion. As other speakers have alluded to, RTE aired a documentary last weekend about the impact of Wal-Mart stores in the US. I watched it with interest, knowing that this debate was due and being intent on reflecting the strong lobby I have been subjected to for a long period. This is a deserving lobby which I am happy to reflect and support.

I was struck by the use of the phrase "the race to the bottom", a phrase heard frequently in recent times, which Wal-Mart and, by implication, other megastores are leading. Their relentless pursuit of the bottom line leads them in search of the cheapest product. This inevitably leads them out of the country and the western world into the underdeveloped nations where children labour for a few dollars a day. Quite apart from the significant ethical considerations, this harms indigenous industry, with jobs disappearing as production moves overseas. It is a road few of us wish to travel. Representatives of all parties and none have reflected on this position. None of us wishes to travel down this road but that is where this Bill will bring us.

It is worth noting that employment in the food production industry has increased by 100% since the introduction of the groceries order. In the five years before its introduction, employment in this sector had fallen by 15%. The Government claims that revoking the groceries order will increase competition. We heard this argument before when Telecom Éireann was privatised. More than five years later, we have a private monopoly in which consumers pay higher prices for inadequate services while the State repeatedly claims it is powerless to intervene. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources all but admitted recently that the privatisation of Telecom Éireann was a mistake.

Hear, hear.

There is no doubt that we will also witness a future Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment admitting that the revocation of the groceries order was a mistake of equal proportions. I urge the Government to withdraw this Bill immediately.

I wish to confine myself to section 4 of the Bill which proposes to revoke the groceries order. I record my belief that in coming forward with a proposal to abolish the order, the Minister allowed himself to be unduly influenced by the report of the consumer strategy group. This report contained many inaccuracies, which were highlighted by the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, of which I am a member, in its submission to the Minister in July 2005. I will quote from the submission so that even if the Minister sought to bury it, it will be put on the record. According to the committee's submission:

The Joint Committee met with Ms Ann Fitzgerald, Chairperson of the Consumer Strategy Group, and other CSG representatives on 22 June 2005.

The Joint Committee has concluded that there were a number of misunderstandings and errors in relation to the Groceries Order in the CSG Report.

These include:

1. The CSG stated that Ireland was the most expensive country in the eurozone for food and retail non-alcoholic beverages (page 7).

The Joint Committee's Report found that the Eurostat Price Level Indices Report, (from which the CSG obtained its information):

a) Reflects consumption patterns as well as prices

b) Was a survey of prices in Dublin only (recent surveys by the CSO show that Dublin prices are more expensive than prices outside Dublin)

c) Was undertaken in outlets that may not now be representative of outlets in the Dublin area.

The Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business considers that the Eurostat report cannot be regarded as reliable evidence of Irish prices compared with those of other countries.

2. The CSG ignored the recent very low inflation in Irish food prices. Since August 2003, the annual inflation rate has been less than 1%. For the most recent year, the annual Consumer Price Index rate was- 1.4%. These low inflation rates are not indicative of a non-competitive market or a market that needs fundamental regulatory change.

3. The presentation of the prices of international and national brands ... is misleading due to the inclusion of alcohol products without the exclusion of excise duty [These products are rarely bought in a grocery shop].

4. The CSG is incorrect in stating that the Competition Act, 2002 prevents predatory pricing in the Irish grocery trade.

5. The CSG incorrectly assumes that convenience stores account for a much larger proportion of food sales than is the [reality].

6. The CSG Report incorrectly states there is no ban on below cost selling in Germany, Spain and Italy.

7. While the CSG notes the entry of Aldi and Lidl to the market, it does not appear to understand that the entry of [these businesses] was facilitated by the existence of a ban on below cost selling in Ireland. Without the ban, the discounters would have been subject to attack by existing multiple groups. Without the ban, the benefits of the competition from Aldi and Lidl would not have been realised.

The chairperson of the consumer strategy group, during questioning by the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, appeared to consider that the groceries order could not be amended, with the choice being to retain or revoke it. If the consumer strategy group had been aware the order could be amended by legislation, its recommendations to the Minister may have been completely different. The Minister happily ignored the submission from the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business and instead undermined the committee by accepting a flawed report from the consumer strategy group. He ignored the committee's submissions, which had some very strong input from members of his party. He also decided to ignore that. So much for the Minister respecting the views of his party colleagues.

I also heard the former head of the Competition Authority, Dr. Fingleton, specifically state that the groceries order was anti-competitive and did not facilitate competition in the groceries trade. When Dr. Fingleton was challenged on this, he had no evidence to back up his claim. The Minister's actions in bringing forward this Bill and including the abolition of the groceries order was based on flawed judgment, an inaccurate report by the consumer strategy group and a fresh air view of the Competition Authority based on nothing.

Why does the Minister feel he has to meddle in this matter? It is something which is working well and serving the public. His actions will lead to the largest and greediest players putting small community-based operators out of business.

Hear, hear.

His actions will recreate in this country the mess that is evident in other jurisdictions. Why does the Minister feel he must fix something which is not broken?

I wish to share my time with Deputy Deenihan. Excuse me, I meant to say I wish to share my time with Deputy Dennehy.

The Deputy does not know her Government colleagues.

She is dreaming of things to come.

Ná bí dána.

This Bill represents what is good about the Legislature. A problem existed, it needed fixing, legislation was drafted and we are now enacting it. If only all legislation were dealt with as quickly, we would all have a greater sense of job satisfaction.

Competition, the groceries order and reforming legislation are all topics which allow political parties to demonstrate their commitment to promoting the consumer interest. The view of the Progressive Democrats is that the groceries order has failed in its primary function of preventing consolidation in the grocery sector and protecting a vibrant independent sector. We also recognise that the order contributed to higher price inflation and, ultimately, increased the burden on consumers. Therefore we called for its abolition.

The parties opposite have unfortunately struggled in this policy area. Fine Gael stated, astonishingly, that the groceries order illustrated the Government's complete inability to tackle vested interests and its complete antipathy to consumers. I again remind Fine Gael of its record. In May 1996, when the party was last in Government, it sought derogations from EU law to protect a State monopoly at the expense of consumers. The party attempted to protect Telecom Éireann's monopoly for an extra two years. More recently, the groceries order became an embarrassing issue for Fine Gael. We have more of this today in the party demonstrating its paralysis in making a decision.

Although it risks becoming a mantra — but like many a mantra it is true — the Labour Party is certainly no friend of the consumer. Its rusty statist economic policies are a sure way of repressing competition and harming consumers. Indeed, the classic competition success story, the aviation sector, is one that particularly upsets the Labour Party. The approach of the Progressive Democrats is different.

It is even different from that of Fianna Fáil.

We determined that the removal of the groceries order would be pro-consumer and introduce greater competition.

One can now pay to bring one's wheelchair on the aeroplane, if it is allowed at all.

This would upset certain groups, but it is undoubtedly the correct step.

Like many Members of this House, I have received correspondence from retailers expressing their concern about the effect of this proposed action on their businesses. Retailers should know that their clearly articulated concerns were considered during extensive deliberations on the future of the order last year. I further reassure these businesses that, notwithstanding recent steps on the order and competition generally, the Progressive Democrats will continue to work to support all businesses. This will include smaller traders and garages, etc. who appear most vocal in their concern about developments.

My party is acutely aware that our successful economy, based as it is on initiative, enterprise and development, requires a mixture of business types, such as the sole traders, the small and medium enterprises, larger concerns and multinationals. The Progressive Democrats will pursue policies nuanced enough to ensure that all business types have the correct level of support to allow them to get on with their work in trading, generating revenue, profits, jobs and wages. The same cannot be said, unfortunately, of parties in opposition.

A weekend media report referred to research showing that a key barrier to voters opting for the Labour Party was nervousness about its ability to manage the national economy. This nervousness is understandable and is something I share. How would Labour in Government deal, for example, with yesterday's advice from the ESRI? Would we see some sort of internal schizophrenic meltdown as it considers which union group to appease? Would Fine Gael throw straw in the wind to judge how its vote might be affected and its reaction?

Here we see the stark reality of the choice facing the electorate. The Progressive Democrats want to let business get on with it and let the economy progress. The party wishes to keep the burden on business and workers low and generate the economic activity that fuels public revenue, which in turn is used to assist the most vulnerable people in our communities. Letting the economy progress is what has been good for Ireland and its citizens.

The Deputy was not listening to Deputy Ned O'Keeffe.

The policy has created more than 450,000 net new jobs under this Government. It has produced the most generous tax and welfare systems in the world for single income families on the average industrial wage. These are extraordinary facts.

The Opposition may be correct in stating that a clear alternative is emerging. This alternative is an unsure taxation policy for the future, an appalling record on taxation in the past, a rebalancing — or unbalancing, rather — of the income tax system, and a wealth tax that would operate as a property tax. Under this Government, in contrast, an expert group has made recommendations and there has been consultation, notice, action and now legislation. Problems are identified and dealt with, fairly. This Bill is an example of that process.

The consumer strategy group's recommendation was followed by a public consultation process. This review generated in excess of 550 submissions to the Department. They were received from a wide range of parties including trade union groups, producers and retailers, as well as many from the public. Concerns expressed to my party were considered during the extensive deliberations on the future of the order last year. A fear of so-called predatory pricing, even by those not in a dominant position, was a common thread in the correspondence I received. There are fears that sections 4 and 5 of the Competition Act 2002 may not capture certain unilateral conduct on the part of non-dominant undertakings in the grocery trade and this is a result of a revocation of the order. This amending Bill addresses those fears.

I repeat the advice of the Minister that measurement of dominance does not have to be at a national level as legislation now provides for dominance to be measured in the context of smaller areas or towns. Nor should dominance be measured simply in terms of mathematical majority. As has been pointed out previously, a business with a 25% share of a particular market may be a dominant player if other operators have only a 1% share of that market. Ultimately, competition legislation allows the Competition Authority to tackle predatory pricing in all circumstances. That is as it should be and is to be welcomed.

Of course, legislation is merely one half of the process. Its implementation and enforcement are the other. A true test of this Bill, when enacted, will be how adequately it enables the Competition Authority to tackle predatory pricing, to end inappropriate dominance and ensure competition. Adequate legislation and adequate enforcement are both necessary. Nevertheless, we have a duty to allay the fears of those in the retail trade. We must get the message across that the removal of the groceries order gives freedom to retailers. Retailers themselves know their business best. They know their customers and their trade best. They are best positioned to determine the prices that they should charge their customers for goods and services, to keep those customers.

The groceries order did not protect retailers. Some 2,500 stores closed in the nearly 20 years since the groceries order was introduced. It did not act as it was intended, and it did not prevent the move toward the increasing concentration we currently see in the Irish market. The legislation before us today provides balance in the market between the prohibition of certain practices that might be considered undesirable and ensuring that the new competitive environment will be fair for all. The groceries order kept prices artificially high. If it were left in place, it would continue to do so.

For the balance it provides and for addressing the potential negative conduct of non-dominant undertakings in the grocery trade, this is a necessary Bill which I welcome and support.

Deputy Fiona O'Malley has dealt with technical aspects of the Bill. I will comment on some things that were said earlier. Deputy Boyle said he was a neighbour of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, and referred emotionally to the number of corner shops that have closed down in his locality. The area in question has done very well in terms of representation as I lived about 300 yd on the other side of Deputy Boyle, on High Street, and am aware of all the shops he mentioned. In that context it is important to note the figure quoted by Deputy O' Malley of 2,500 shops that have closed under the existing legislation in the past ten or 12 years. We are all aware of the reasons for that and need to be totally honest about it. The primary reason for their closure is their customers exercised their option to shop where they felt they would get the best value, as they are entitled to do. One can argue about the effects of advertising, among other things, but the bottom line is the consumer will go where he or she wishes and is correct so to do.

Those of us who have concentrated on work and, in an old-fashioned way, have left the shopping to the partner might not be as aware of the need to look for value for money as, say, a housewife. Everybody is involved in shopping now, however, and their primary objective is value for money. This legislation will assist in that regard.

Deputy Boyle was surprised that Deputy Ned O'Keeffe had concerns about this legislation. He should not assume there is a monopoly of concern on any issue on the Opposition side of the House. Regardless of who forms a Government, there will be concerns on the part of every elected Member on any legislation. Our job is to thrash it out and to get as many of our concerns taken on board to reflect the views and concerns of everybody outside the House, such as traders, suppliers and, most of all in this context, consumers.

I received the same lobbying material and some of the difficulties have been or can be dealt with quite easily. I am surprised that some large traders were concerned about the prompt payments legislation. Again, that can be taken care of quite effectively.

Below cost selling and the ability of foreign conglomerates to come in and put our local traders out of business are the primary concern for the future. The fact, as referred to by Deputy Ned O'Keeffe, that Statoil is withdrawing shows that the large foreign company is not always successful and cannot always compete effectively with our people. One of the most successful groups in the country, Musgraves, is based in my area, the Tramore Road in Cork, and trades under a number of business names with various partners. They started with a modest store, Smiths, and developed with professionalism, commitment and hard work. That can be done if there is protection from unfair practices and trading and we will have to ensure that that is the case. If there is a need to come back to the legislation with amendments, so be it.

It is neither accurate nor necessary to paint the picture of the deserted villages in parts of England. I was confronted with such prophecies on two occasions. Ten years ago, RGDATA came as representatives of all the small shops in Douglas village in Cork and said they would be gone within two years if a major supermarket developed there. A large shopping mall was proposed. Now, nobody can afford to buy a square foot of space in Douglas. It is probably the most expensive area in Cork and every shop there trades very well.

When I was Lord Mayor of Cork in 1983 there was a joint proposal by the city council and a private developer to build the first multi-storey car park in the region. The development, which now includes shops, is known as the Paul Street development. At the time I was summoned by the traders of Patrick Street and their representatives and was told it would be like a deserted village after a couple of years, that the new development would suck the life out of Patrick Street. Again this was obviously incorrect and we have since had Mahon Point, Wilton and various other developments.

We can cry wolf and paint a frightening picture, but it is not fair. As I said, 2,500 shops have closed under the existing legislation. Over the summer, I discussed with suppliers and traders their fears in terms of the proposals and raised these with the Minister at our parliamentary party meeting. Every Member of this House wants a successful trading system for groceries and other goods which will give consumers the best possible value for money. I listen carefully to the Competition Authority and do not try to second-guess it or prove it wrong. We need to look to the future and it is not helpful to look at shoe and clothing factories in Cork or Donegal because these are separate issues which have no relation to the legislation under discussion. It does the debate no good to raise these issues. While we should be proud of our minimum wage levels, these affect that kind of trading.

I have examined all sides of this legislation and, as far as I can determine, it makes a positive contribution. Difficulties may crop up and accusations of dominance arise, although we were told the arrival of Lidl would result in the closure of everybody else but that prediction proved wrong. In the context of this relatively small country, we need to monitor these matters constantly. However, I do not believe in the old-fashioned idea that any competition will kill off everybody. With regard to the picture of closing shops painted by Deputy Boyle, my neighbour, a young married man, operates a small shop attached to his house. Last week, this single-handed operator doubled the size of his business. He is successful because he works extremely hard. There is room for people to progress.

The debate on this and earlier legislation boils down to one issue, that is, controlling unfair trading, and all other matters are extraneous. Our job is to ensure that trading is controlled, an objective which is shared by everybody in this House. Like any legislation, this Bill may need amending. Longer serving and wiser heads in this House have seen previous occasions in which legislation had to be revisited.

We heard a harrowing description of four major suppliers in the UK who control the entire market, yet three sentences later, we were told that 80% of the trade in Ireland is controlled by three enterprises. Effectively, the situation already exists here.

I do not set myself up as an expert because my experience in this comes from buying goods in shops but we need to bring benefits to the consumer and I am hopeful that this legislation will achieve that end.

I want to say a few words about the extraordinary speech given by Deputy Fiona O'Malley which must qualify as the most brass-necked of the year. She regards it as somehow old-fashioned not to leap towards the abolition of the groceries order or to take a number of important and innovative steps which have aroused the intellects of the Progressive Democrats. The party she represents is extraordinary but is not particularly economically innovative. For example, it is in favour of private health care on public sites. In the case of transport, it favours an unending transfer of resources from the taxpayer to monopoly controllers of tolls. With regard to housing, its members are probably delighted that we have had approximately 81,000 housing finishes but have provided fewer than 6,000 public houses. It is a recipe for radical and unmitigated individual greed.

It is interesting to hear the brash presentation of all this by a young Deputy who has not learned much from her short time in this House. The analysis she brought to bear on the grocery trade is extraordinary but I will say little more on this because I wish to address the inappropriate amendment this Bill brings to section 4 of the Competition Act.

In 1967, when I was a young postgraduate economics student, I remember doing work on the changing structure of the retail trade. Nobody then could have anticipated the degree of change that has since taken place. The suggestion that consumers are interested solely in price is an appalling distortion of the nature of consumption in this and other sectors. Purchasers in the retail sector are interested in other issues, including convenience, time and packaging. A debate was held, for example, on the quantities in which goods are provided. Reports by the National Economic and Social Council and others have been compiled on the relationship between aged people and the retail sector.

It is nonsense to suggest that consumer interests are served solely by issues of price. However, such a suggestion recommends itself to the Progressive Democrats Party which, in addition to abolishing the groceries order, wants to reassure every small garage, shop and stand-alone business that it is available for contributions. That is what may be called classical Progressive Democrats hypocrisy — a mixture of radical individualism and a longing for a kind of Poujadist appeal to the Irish political scene.

The bright young Deputy from Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown did not reply to any of the issues raised by my colleague from County Galway on, for example, the systematic ignoring of the Oireachtas joint committee or the areas in which the consumer strategy group may have been wrong. I share the view of my colleague, Deputy Howlin, that the proposed amendment to section 4 will not achieve what it is purported to do and will have a structural effect in terms of changing diversity of choice and supply.

Serious questions arise with regard to shifting the burden of regulation to the Competition Authority, which has disgraced itself. Last November, in a move which no doubt will recommend itself to the Progressive Democrats philosophy, it pursued a specific target, credit unions. After that it pursued artists, including musicians, freelance actors and photographers. In December 2003, it decided to initiate a review of the members of such groups.

It went to the steps of the courts, effectively, with regard to Equity, the actors' union and members of SIPTU in general, to insist that the union had no right to represent freelance actors. We should bear in mind that the number of registered actors is probably approximately 5,500. It was argued that because freelance actors were not regarded as PAYE workers by the Revenue Commissioners — this was the beginning of the Competition Authority's analysis — they were, therefore, independent contractors. The judgment is interesting in that it argues that because such people are not entitled to security of employment, maternity benefit, holidays or any other benefits associated with regulated employment, they are, in effect, contractors. The decision of the Competition Authority will not be confined to the artists I have mentioned. It will be applied to others who lose their jobs and are asked to contract back their services.

The decision and the arguments made by the Competition Authority are very interesting. Section 2.15 of the decision reads as follows:

As a starting point, we consider whether the Revenue Commissioners treat actors as employees subject to PAYE or as independent contractors. The Authority's investigation revealed that the vast majority of actors in the State are not treated as PAYE employees. While this one factor is not outcome determinative, it is a useful starting place.

It was a vicious starting place, based on a new kind of ignorance being imposed on practice. Very few actors are in permanent employment. The authority went on to state, in section 2.16 of its decision:

Actors providing advertising services generally are not obliged to work for a single advertising agency. They may work for several at the same time.

Such actors generally do not receive the benefits one usually associates with a contract for labour. For example, they generally do not receive holiday pay, health insurance, maternity leave and the like.

Such actors generally do not have employment security.

Such actors are free to accept or decline a specific piece of work as they see fit.

An actor is expected to go from one source to another, for example, for recording an advertisement. The argument is based on the fact that actors do not have continuity of employment, but anyone who knows a whit about the nature of performance, acting, musicianship or photography will know that artists take work whenever they can get it and pay their taxes. Serious issues have been raised by this decision and the only way of dealing with them is to amend section 4 of the Act. Such an amendment will be proposed by my colleague, Deputy Howlin, on Committee Stage.

In March 2003, the Competition Authority initiated an investigation into alleged price-fixing between self-employed actors and advertising agencies. It struck down an agreement between SIPTU and the Institute of Advertising Practitioners in Ireland. The agreement in question suggested that before an actor accepted a fee less than that mentioned in the agreement, he or she would revert to the secretary of the union to determine whether to do so. The authority heard the complaint and made its decision. SIPTU had to give a signed undertaking that it would not represent freelance actors, including members of Equity. This tears apart a whole section of our trade union legislation. It is also in complete breach of a convention of the International Labour Organisation, details of which I will provide later. The decision is also an abuse of the right to trade union representation, as established in European law by the European Union.

The Competition Authority's starting point, based on information from the Revenue Commissioners, was the startling discovery that the majority of artists were not PAYE workers. It went on to argue that under section 4 of the Competition Act, each individual artist was an undertaking. It extrapolated from this that what existed was a contract. I believe that Members of this House are humane and will want to support the amendment proposed by the Labour Party.

Thankfully, the then head of the Competition Authority is now gone, and good riddance is my response, given his ideological choice of targets to establish competition, namely, credit unions, actors and occasionally, for the sake of appearances, the producers of food that Chihuahua dogs might eat.

The right to collective representation cannot be swept aside in the name of competition, unless one is defining and construing competition improperly. The correct response to the position artists find themselves in is to change the Competition Act by amending section 4; to vindicate the Industrial Relations Act of 1990 and the basic Act of 1901; and to uphold the ILO convention, which is Regulation 87 of 1998, as well as the EU directive which the authority's decision breaches. The appropriate amendment to the Competition Act would be to insert after section 4 a provision establishing the right of a trade union to represent an individual who should not be defined as an undertaking.

The implications of the case to which I have referred are important not just for artists but for all who are engaged in atypical employment, who find themselves under increasing pressure from the likes of the party Deputy Fiona O'Malley represents, which would like to destroy the security for workers that has been built up over 150 years. That is where the Progressive Democrats are coming from, be it in terms of justice or economics, it is somewhere out of the dark recesses of the 18th century. The decision will affect those who have been forced to trade in their jobs and who are being asked to offer their services as self-employed contractors. All such people, under the interpretation of the decision, will not only lose the benefit of employment protection legislation, they will also be prevented — I emphasise the scandal of this — from organising collectively to better their terms and conditions of service.

The very same grounds that justify trade unions receiving recognition and immunity a century ago under the Acts to which I have referred also justify organising and collective bargaining by self-employed persons. How dare the Competition Authority insist that somebody who is forced not to have continuous employment — an artist, musician or anyone who as an individual has to sell his or her labour — does not have the right to be represented by a trade union. That is what was sought on the steps of the court by the authority to avoid the SIPTU representative, Ms Jane Bushell, going to jail. This is the body that will be the regulatory authority, a scandalous, discredited bunch of people, operating ideologically and directing their powers to date against easy and cheap targets. This does not mean I am opposed to competition. At the outset of my remarks I stated that I am in favour of diversity of supply and consumption, but I am not illiterate enough economically to suggest that we should all be governed only by price.

If we accept the consequences of what I have described and if such people as I have mentioned are not allowed to organise and be represented, individually they are weak. United, however, they can achieve some rectification of the institutionalised inequality of bargaining power. If people wanted equality of competition in the supply of labour services, why should one side of the equation be allowed to organise but not the other?

Our view in the Labour Party is that trade unions should be free to organise and negotiate collectively on behalf of their employed membership and on behalf of individuals who enter work under contract personally to execute any work. Such individuals, for the purposes of section 4 of the Act and of the decisions of the Competition Authority should not be classed as undertakings. The self-employed should continue to be prohibited from price-fixing against consumer interests, but it will be interesting, as we are on the verge of talks between the so-called social partners, to see whether this issue will be resolved before the talks begin. Any partnership model worth its salt should incorporate an openness to trade union membership.

I founded a section of the WUI to represent lecturers in 1968-69. That union became the FWUI and then SIPTU. How could my brothers and sisters in SIPTU sit down and accept a situation where many of the people who had been in the trade union movement for such a long time would be denied the right of representation? It should be impossible but that is where we are, and it is interesting to be direct about it in this House.

Everyone has the right to be represented in here but it is time to recognise the extreme views that support the situation I have described, the extremists in law, housing, health, trade union rights and competition, who reduce everyone to their price. One can imagine the Progressive Democrats standing outside the supermarket saying there is a penny off something today. We live much better, and their arrival on the political scene considerably cheapened it.

The amendment I have suggested is essential to the Bill and I look forward to hearing the debate on Committee Stage. I was moved by the speeches of Members on all sides of the House representing a more generous time when they recognised the provision of retail activity as something that was not measured entirely by price but by the length of time a place was open, its proximity to those who needed it, good planning and physical and spatial factors such as access that are dismissed by the Competition Authority, factors as important as those praised by the cheapskate merchants who are trying to impose their economic misery on the rest of us.

I agree to an extent, competition is a false god worshipped by some. It has distorted our views of the economy and society, two words I use deliberately because they do not mean the same thing.

Deputy Michael Higgins criticised the Competition Authority, talking about workers who are not always in the marketplace, such as actors, and the way in which the authority has dealt with their issues. In a previous life, I was in that category as a barrister. The Competition Authority has made recommendations that are ignorant of the circumstances and conditions that younger barristers must face. Only seven years ago there were 1,000 barristers and now there are 2,000 barristers but still the Competition Authority sees fit to ignore these facts. I am reminded of Screaming Lord Sutch, the head of the Monster Raving Looney Party, who complained that there was only one Monopolies Commission. Perhaps there should be another Competition Authority, or at least one with a broader view of society. Deputy Higgins made the point that price is not the only issue, just as the economy is not the only issue.

Many speakers have used the phrase "social infrastructure", referring to better planning in dealing with these issues. Some people might laugh at my referring to Foxrock, because it is a place used to deride those with too much money, but I was invited to visit the post mistress there to talk about her concerns on the post office and its future in the community. It is the only financial outlet in the village of Foxrock. I stood for 20 minutes waiting for the queue to disappear. It was not a particular day when there were more collections than any other, but the queue took a long time to dissipate because the post mistress knew everyone coming into the shop. She could quiz them on siblings and sore knees, she knew where they had been on holiday and could ask about children who had been sick. This impressed me because it proved to me there was more to the assessment of An Post than pounds, shillings and pence or balance sheets in the black.

That is not considered fully when the Government makes decisions. Equally, the Competition Authority is blind to these factors and the circumstances on the ground. It is our job to stand back from all vested interests, including the Competition Authority, which has a specific outlook, and to look at the bigger picture of the economy and society.

This Bill has some weaknesses. While I support what the Minister is doing, there are questions to be asked about enforcement. A list of worthy exclusions is given in section 15(b), where restrictions on certain practices are allowed, but that does not answer the question of how these provisions will be enforced. There must be stronger enforcement by the Competition Authority. Only one criminal prosecution was taken by the authority in 2004.

I would also like the Minister to tell us how a supplier is supposed to make a complaint to the Competition Authority against a major customer without destroying his relationship with the retailer and, possibly, the entire business. The Bill envisages on the one hand the supplier or undertaking bringing a case before the Circuit Court or the High Court, or on the other hand, the Competition Authority doing so. The figures show the authority is not effectively policing unfair practice in the economy and it is very difficult for a supplier to bring a case against a company with which he has close relations.

Trying to show a particular undertaking is abusing its dominant position is fraught with difficulty. First, it must be proved it is in a dominant position.

Debate adjourned.
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