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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 1 Feb 2006

Vol. 613 No. 4

Ceisteanna — Questions.

Official Travel.

Enda Kenny

Ceist:

1 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to Croatia; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37547/05]

Pat Rabbitte

Ceist:

2 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his recent visit to Croatia. [37657/05]

Enda Kenny

Ceist:

3 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the foreign visits he will undertake during 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37778/05]

Joe Higgins

Ceist:

4 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Croatian Prime Minister, Mr. Ivo Sanader, in Zagreb. [38007/05]

Pat Rabbitte

Ceist:

5 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the official visits abroad he plans to make in the first six months of 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40400/05]

Trevor Sargent

Ceist:

6 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to Croatia; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1230/06]

Trevor Sargent

Ceist:

7 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the foreign visits which he has planned for 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1233/06]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Ceist:

8 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to India; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1721/06]

Trevor Sargent

Ceist:

9 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent official visit to India. [1749/06]

Joe Higgins

Ceist:

10 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to India. [1850/06]

Joe Higgins

Ceist:

11 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Bulgarian President, Mr. Georgi Parvanov. [1851/06]

Joe Higgins

Ceist:

12 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach the official visits abroad he plans to make during the current Dáil session; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1866/06]

Pat Rabbitte

Ceist:

13 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his recent visit to India. [2159/06]

Pat Rabbitte

Ceist:

14 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the matters discussed and conclusions reached at his meeting with political leaders in India; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2160/06]

Enda Kenny

Ceist:

15 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to India; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2975/06]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 15, inclusive, together.

I travelled to Zagreb on 28 and 29 November to meet the Prime Minister, Mr. Ivo Sanader. We discussed issues on the EU agenda, including Croatia's accession negotiations and the future development of Ireland's economic and cultural relations with Croatia. The Government of Croatia expressed particular interest in learning from Ireland's rapid economic development over the past decade. I extended an invitation to the Prime Minister to visit Ireland in the near future. While in Zagreb, I also paid a courtesy call on the President of Croatia, Mr. Stjepan Mesic. I also had a meeting with the Prime Minister of Macedonia, Mr. Vlado Buckovski, who was visiting Zagreb at the same time.

On 12 December, I met the President of Bulgaria, Mr. Georgi Parvanov, during his state visit to Ireland. Our discussions were useful and friendly and we covered a range of bilateral and economic issues. Of particular focus were EU enlargement and Bulgarian preparations for the country's accession to the EU and I assured the President of Ireland's continuing support for Bulgaria's preparations for EU membership. We also reflected on the 50th anniversary of UN membership for both our countries and our shared commitment to UN peacekeeping.

I made an official visit to India on 16-20 January. This was the first official visit to India by a Taoiseach and the key aim was to enhance bilateral political and economic relations between Ireland and India. I was accompanied by the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, and the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin. We visited three cities during the trip, Bangalore, New Delhi and Mumbai. I attended business events hosted by Enterprise Ireland in each of the cities and made key addresses at the Nehru Memorial Library in Delhi and the University of Mumbai. The focus of the address in Delhi was on political relations while the address in Mumbai concentrated on business, academic and cultural connections between Ireland and India. During the visit I had official meetings with President Kalam and Prime Minister Singh. I laid a wreath at the Gandhi memorial and availed of opportunities to meet the Irish community in India.

As the 11th largest economy in the world India is an attractive prospect for Irish companies seeking new markets for their products and services. India is currently our 37th largest trading partner. According to 2004 figures bilateral trade was worth €262 million. The visit provided useful opportunities to further develop two-way trade. As with my visit to China last year I led a large business delegation, over 80 organisations drawn from a range of sectors including ICT, biotechnology, education, tourism, culture and arts. Significantly representatives from both parts of the island of Ireland participated for the first time in the delegation, emphasising the all-Ireland co-operation on economic and social developments. Whereas this visit was about exploring business potential, Enterprise Ireland has estimated that the deals signed during the week will be worth €35 million in new business over three years. In addition 24 separate contracts and agreements were signed across a number of sectors including education, computer software and engineering. This visit also afforded opportunities to conclude a number of key political and business agreements, including bilateral agreements in the areas of science, technology and cultural co-operation.

In 2006, I will travel to the United States of America next month for St. Patrick's Day. I will also attend the European Council meetings in Brussels on 23 and 24 March and 15 and 16 June in my role as Head of Government. I will also attend the EU-Latin American Caribbean summit on 12 and 13 May in Vienna.

What is the Government's view on continued enlargement after Bulgaria and Romania join the EU? There seems to be a divergence of opinion that there should be a breathing space before further countries join.

On the Taoiseach's trip to India, which I assume was successful from a business point of view, did the Taoiseach engage in any discussions with his Indian counterparts about their nuclear capability and India's continued refusal to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty? Given the fact that countries such as Pakistan and Israel have never signed the treaty, were there discussions about that? They have international responsibilities and should not shirk them.

It was reported yesterday that Iran said if a referral is made to the UN Security Council over its stand-off with the West it will end diplomatic relations. Does the Taoiseach have a view on that? I know the EU three — Germany, France and Britain — have been negotiating on behalf of all member states on this matter. Does the Taoiseach think a non-nuclear state such as Ireland has a role in those negotiations in view of their importance to global trade and politics?

What specific changes does Deputy O'Donoghue propose to attract the "Bollywood" film makers to Ireland? It is a long distance for them to travel and they will not do so unless there are specific economic incentives to do so. Given that we had a successful film making business here for a number of years, which has now tapered off to an extent, how does Deputy O'Donoghue propose to attract Indian film makers to Ireland?

To repeat what I said to Deputy Rabbitte yesterday, Bulgaria and Romania will join the EU in a few years and discussions have started with Croatia and Macedonia. From the Thessaloniki summit of a few years ago Europe is committed to ongoing talks in that region of Croatia, Macedonia and the other countries as they prepare initial association agreements. Talks with Turkey will continue for a long time. There should be deep consideration before we make any further commitments. Otherwise we will get into a host of enlargements which people have no appetite to fund, causing difficulties down the road. The problem with the EU is that somebody thinks up a bright idea, it takes off and everybody is linked into it. The bright idea that should be worked on is the EU neighbourhood policy, which we should develop before we embark on further enlargement. Otherwise we are straight into considering very large countries. One could argue, as Mr. Putin does sometimes, that some of the member countries are less European than Russia but where does one stop? Having seen the last round on financing issues, enlargement is a great idea but not when nobody wants to pay the cost so people should work that through. It puts unfair pressure on the Commission. It is asked to prepare the proposals but has no control because the European Parliament and Council are pertinent to financial issues. We are talking about the period 2010-20. As Deputy Kenny knows the European Council changes frequently, particularly with the new Eastern European countries — practically all the people who came in on 1 May are already gone — so one just gets more bright ideas. They know my view — I do not think they are very bright ideas and often speak against these ideas, which is not always popular. It does not make sense to me. The EU will get itself into an awful bind if it continues this way. We should develop the new neighbourhood policy.

On the Iranian situation, the formal negotiations between the EU three — Britain, France and Germany — and Iran have addressed nuclear power. The view is that because Iran has resumed uranium conversion it is in breach of the Paris agreement. Iran had earlier rejected proposals by the EU three on the future of its nuclear programme. The board found Iran was not compliant with its safeguards agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency, and that the history of concealment of Iran's nuclear activities and the nature of these activities have given rise to questions within the competence of the Security Council. Iran has announced that it would recommence research into what it calls its peaceful nuclear energy programme and the IAEA removed the seals at several nuclear installations in Iran. The General Affairs Council met on Monday and expressed grave concern at Iran's decision to resume the enrichment related activities. The Council inter alia called on Iran to re-establish a suspension of all enrichment related and re-processing activities, as repeatedly called for by the IAEA board of governors resolutions, as an essential confidence-building measure. The Council also emphasised that the EU remains committed to a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear issue at which the IAEA will play a central role and that the involvement of the Security Council does not end the IAEA’s responsibilities but strengthens them. The IAEA board of governors will meet in Vienna next week. Ireland is not currently a member of the board but the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, will keep closely in touch.

In India I asked the Prime Minister what his intentions are around the nuclear issue. I read the report and other related reports before Christmas. I explained our traditional position regarding the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. As the Indians see it, nuclear power can meet the country's huge needs for electricity. The Prime Minister described India as a responsible nuclear power. The Indian Government is trying to help 60 million rural people with new schemes, such as a new arrangement where people will be given 100 days work. Mrs. Gandhi explained that it would put billions into the rural communities. The only way this can be done, according to the Indian Government, is by providing nuclear energy. This has caused many problems with the Nuclear Suppliers Group. I stressed our track record on the issue of nuclear disarmament and non-proliferation and they were not surprised with our close association with the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. We will not change the world for them, but they know our position on the issue. They are working hard to get a change in the position and they expect that the American President will come in early March and that this issue will be at the centre of discussions. They do not see themselves as being involved in nuclear proliferation, but in trying to look after the 800 million people who are not in the middle class and they see nuclear power as the only resolution to this problem. I think they will give any guarantee that is sought by the Nuclear Suppliers Group. They want to build nuclear power for their energy supply. The Prime Minister was at pains to point out that they were not into global proliferation. I know that this may create problems with Pakistan, which takes a different view.

The Deputy is correct about the Indian film industry. It is a huge, competitive industry. The sums of money involved, even for the smaller films, are enormous. In 15 years, India has built up a very powerful film industry. I attended one of the functions with the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, and there were people from Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and many other countries. They get the best deals and the reason the industry has got competitive is that so many people have followed our arrangements. The Minister is pressing the Minister for Finance to make some changes in the Finance Bill. This business is about where to get the best deal. The size of the budgets is staggering. Going after the very big films is probably out of our league, in my opinion. However, there are sizeable films that would be very helpful. They will follow deals and will not come here out of sentiment.

Does the Taoiseach know about the sequel to Lassie?

The Taoiseach is reported to have been involved in discussions about UN reform. Did he offer support for India's membership of the Security Council? Did the matter arise at all?

The trade and economic implications of the visit certainly seem to have been successful. What value will derive to this State in tangible terms as a result of the visit? What response does the Taoiseach have to the ICTU's position about outsourcing and the vulnerability of our call centres and so on? India has made extraordinary progress in recent years in the IT sector. Does the Taoiseach see that as a real fear here? Are there measures we can take to combat that within a global trade environment?

As in China, UN reform is a big issue in India. In the question and answer session at the University of Mumbai, the students saw this as a burning issue. I did not give India support for a seat on the Security Council. I have been involved in discussions about this in the last few years. It is too easy to give support to one country, which then creates implications for another country. I explained our basic position that trying to run the organisation today on the 1945 basis is not workable. Almost all issues are dealt with outside the Security Council because it is known that if an issue is brought before the council, a decision will not be reached. It is a sad reflection on an organisation that is meant to promote global peace and deal with all these issues, that everyone tries to find other ways of doing things because they know we will never get agreement. It is happening again with the current Iranian situation and it has happened with every crisis in the last 25 years. We believe that there should be no more veto positions because that is what is causing the problem. The more vetoes in existence, the more problems are created. We also believe that small countries should not be isolated and that there should be a fair balance between the large and small countries.

There are great tensions between the larger countries. The differences between India, China, Japan and how they see this issue is extraordinary. I do not see the way forward. Unfortunately, Kofi Annan, who has put in so much effort, is coming to the end of his reign. It will continue to be an issue in the future, which is unsatisfactory. Listening to everybody's position, as I have had the pleasure of doing over the past few years, I do not see a solution. We cannot let every country on to the council, yet the countries that will not be let on keep vetoing each other's arrangements.

With regard to business, there are dangers but we should not become paranoid about them. We should try to seek some of the opportunities. India is managing to keep more of its graduates at home, is developing sizeable companies, opening new opportunities and bringing in much investment, so it will become a bigger threat. Every year, the country is producing 200,000 science graduates and 100,000 medical graduates. If these people are being kept at home, their power to innovate and to develop will be enormous. In the last ten to 15 years, 30,000 graduates have been going to Germany. India has 55,000 students currently in graduate or post-graduate studies in the US. They have people located around the world — only around 800 in this country — looking at how things happen, while students on government scholarships are going home. They have an educational programme for about 350 million people. There are tremendous difficulties, but they are creating wealth that is feeding into the rural communities and educating people. There is high attendance at education centres. People are staying longer in education and the rural communities are turning to education. Mrs. Ghandi, not having taken on the role of prime minister, is targeting her energies to convince communities that this is the road ahead. As the Deputy knows, she is a formidable woman and is highly regarded. Her theme is "education" so one can see the potential.

There is no doubt that they will take investment. On the other side, some of their companies have become so large that they have decided to start outsourcing from their bases. The difficulty for Ireland is that they do not know a great deal about us. We are seen to be a small adjunct to the British connection. That is the benefit of visiting India. One has to hard-sell the message that we have software industries and are capable of delivering. I visited three companies, one of which employs 46,000 people, another employing 51,000 people and the third, 3,000 people. For every one position in the company employing 3,000 people, some 5,000 people will have applied. The 3,000 employed are absolute experts at the high end of technology and bio-technology.

We will not be able to beat them in terms of companies employing 50,000 people. However, there are many software companies in Ireland with good products and innovative ideas that could interact with such enterprises when they are outsourcing to try to get in on the action. There is great potential there and many of the companies that travelled with us recognise that. However, if we do not get out there and interact with these companies, there will be difficulties. There are problems involved in investing there, but there are opportunities, too, as they outsource. That is what our people have to address. I have told the people in the industry that it is not possible to do this from home. If one is in business the only place one can do it is out there. We, as politicians, can facilitate contacts now and again. However, Irish industry must realise that it has to get out and about. Other countries are doing it and our people have to, also.

The Taoiseach did not answer in any detail about the foreign visits he will undertake during 2006. He was asked to make a statement on that. In particular, does he have an invitation to visit the White House again, on St. Patrick's Day? In view of the fact that even a majority of United States citizens have now abandoned support for Mr. Bush's disastrous occupation of Iraq, should the Taoiseach reconsider and perhaps not help to shore up his credibility on this occasion with the usual bowl of shamrock?

Speaking as an opponent of nuclear power and weapons, I have a question about his talks on the nuclear proliferation issue, Fortunately, the Irish people stopped Fianna Fáil going down that road. This is something that intrigues me and perhaps the Taoiseach could answer it. Has the Taoiseach ever remarked on the incredible hypocrisy of the United States, Britain and the European Union in coming down like a ton of bricks on Iran while being armed to the teeth themselves and powering their electricity grids through nuclear energy? I say this as someone who believes the whole world should disarm and seek alternatives to the nuclear option.

On his visit to India, does the Taoiseach realise that from the extensive coverage in the Irish media, the impression given is that he rubs shoulders exclusively with the very privileged business and political elite, the establishment figures? What with the pink and white garlands, the fetching pink on the Taoiseach's forehead etc., one might have thought he was visiting Shangri-La. What about the hundreds and millions of Indians who live in the most appalling squalor and poverty? The Taoiseach was in Bangalore. I was there on political work a few years ago and saw the appalling hovels in which people lived. Did the Taoiseach offer any solidarity to the struggling hundreds of millions or comment on the Indian Government wasting billions on nuclear weapons, with this appalling poverty on its door-step?

Will the Taoiseach give the House some more detail on how the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue, got on with the Bollywood set? Did he entice any of them to make a film in Cahirciveen, for example? The pier in Cromane seems to me to be a very suitable location for a visit by people from Bollywood. Perhaps the Taoiseach might give the House more detail on that.

Dingle pier and "Ryan's Daughter".

On a number of issues raised by the Deputy, I put forward very clearly Ireland's record and the late Deputy Frank Aiken's work, in particular, on non-proliferation, and our continuing belief in those policies. I am very proud of the Irish people in India, both the NGOs I met and the religious who have spent their lives there working with the poor. We visited some of their schools, hospitals and outreach bases. The Department of Foreign Affairs through its programmes has helped a number of schemes there, which is much appreciated. Many of the Irish religious have worked in India through the years against a high level of suspicion about their role. They have worked extremely hard in establishing some of the best schools, hospitals and orphanages. No doubt there is mass poverty in India. A middle class and working class is being consolidated which is generating the incomes necessary for the population. It is, however, a full democracy. It is to the country's great credit that it is able to operate a democracy with 1.1 billion people, without any restrictions on childbirth or other issues, while taking on the challenges it does.

There are opportunities in the film industry. It is where the action is, currently, and is being outsourced from there. It is not just Indian producers. Everybody is in there and if the incentives are right, there are definite opportunities. The Minister has made valuable contacts, as have the Irish film industry representatives who accompanied him and I know they will follow through in the months ahead.

What about the Taoiseach's trip to America?

I will be in the White House, in the United States again this year for St. Patrick's Day. That has been a tradition for a long time. Once again, I will convey Deputy Joe Higgins's best regards.

The Taoiseach will shore up President Bush's flagging ratings again this year.

Regardless of who is in the White House, the Taoiseach or a senior Minister from Ireland should always be there to acknowledge the great connection, friendships and solidarity we have enjoyed through the generations.

Will the Taoiseach ask President Bush why he lied to him three years ago about Iraq?

I will talk to him about all the current issues.

On the Taoiseach's trip to India, I want to follow up what I asked yesterday. The Brussels summit in the summer had a statement about climate change. It referred to the Gleneagles plan of action with its emphasis on technology transfer. It also referred to taking up the dialogue of technological co-operation with the likes of India, China, Russia and others. Did the Taoiseach take the opportunity in India to follow this up with regard to technological transfers that would help deal with the impact of climate change? Given that India is such a large democracy, as the Taoiseach has mentioned, did this matter arise in meetings with either President Kalam or Prime Minister Singh? I will not ask about the non-proliferation treaty because this has already been the subject of a question.

Did the Taoiseach detect any level of co-operation or more practical help for the earthquake victims in Pakistan, given that India is a neighbouring country, and did he have an opportunity to relate the sense of sympathy and the urge to help on the part of Irish people? This Friday and Saturday in Balbriggan there will be another collection of sleeping bags, blankets and so forth to help the victims of the earthquake. Did this or any other humanitarian issues arise, given the huge level of poverty in that country?

Yes, I discussed those issues with Prime Minister Singh. He informed me of the sequence of events in India and how India offered to help. India broke through its traditional difficulties with Pakistan to help in every way it could. It took a few days to get it off the ground but there is huge co-operation.

I am aware from speaking with Pakistani representatives at the embassy here and from my attendance, with many other Members, at the occasion on Sunday that our help is deeply appreciated by the Pakistanis. The president has written to me to convey their gratitude for all the co-operation from Ireland in dealing with the horrendous difficulties. The level of assistance from a small country such as this has been acknowledged and noted.

Both Development Co-operation Ireland and private donors have been assisting religious groups and non-governmental organisations in many projects. Many Irish lay people, particularly young people, go to Calcutta for the summer and work in many of the townships. That is acknowledged by the Indians. The Indian Government is conscious that as a small country we send a proportionally high number of people. Transition year students and others go there to help out in small ways. The efforts of the Irish are acknowledged.

With regard to technology transfers, our discussions were general. Many of the companies that accompanied us produce technology and software products and they were anxious to co-operate. A number of the agreements signed will lead to further co-operation in this area, particularly with our universities. Trinity College and other colleges have signed agreements to provide for co-operation in academic research. There are many opportunities, including business ones, in this area from the point of view of assisting them with our technology and experience. In particular, we will have an opportunity to interact with Bangalore where an enormous amount of research is carried out. That will be useful for the future.

In the course of his visit to India, did the Taoiseach have an opportunity to address any of the ongoing tensions between India and Pakistan? Both countries possess nuclear weapons. Did the Taoiseach get a sense that relations between the two countries have improved, particularly given the widely reported measures of goodwill employed by India towards Pakistan in the course of the natural disaster recently visited on the latter? Did the Taoiseach inquire about progress towards nuclear disarmament in the region, not the energy needs on which the Taoiseach's earlier reply is based? It is not about energy needs but specifically about disarmament.

I had an opportunity to discuss the relationships. There have been many efforts over the past year or so, since Prime Minister Singh came into office, to improve relationships. There has been much dialogue in recent months, and even while I was in India there was much coverage in the newspapers of the indication by the President of Pakistan, who was in the United States, that there would be a round of discussions. Like many of these discussions there seemed to be debates about the agenda and how they would proceed. There is an effort to defuse the tensions that have existed in recent years.

Everybody I spoke to in India is more concerned about trying to deal with India's problems and difficulties than building up these tensions. Their stated position was that they would prefer to improve relations with Pakistan and ease the tensions. They do not foresee any changes to boundaries in the future; they just want to stay as they are and build up friendly relations. That was the strong message from Prime Minister Singh.

Earlier the Taoiseach spoke about his discussions regarding the Indian nuclear programme. He emphasised the need to develop a peaceful nuclear programme in India for economic development. However, he did not deal specifically with the contradiction that exists with regard to UN reform and India's role in the Security Council. India is seeking a permanent position on the Security Council but is not a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty. Did the Taoiseach indicate to the Indian authorities that there is a contradiction in this regard in its quest to secure a permanent seat on the Security Council?

Will the Taoiseach also discuss the important point made earlier by Deputy Kenny? The situation with Iran at present is very dangerous and it appears to be getting worse by the day. With hindsight does the Taoiseach believe that, given the history of the European three of Germany, France and the UK with regard to the development of nuclear weaponry, especially in the case of France and the UK, there is a role for a country such as Ireland, one of the creators of the NPT? Does he believe there is a role for non-nuclear countries in negotiations with Iran? While I would not go so far as to use the word "hypocrisy", awful double standards and contradictions are being applied to what is a very dangerous situation. If it is not dealt with now, it is inevitable that nuclear weaponry will get into the wrong hands and will be a risk to everybody.

It is a dangerous situation. The General Affairs Council has discussed it. I do not wish to comment on the EU three because they have represented the EU for a number of years. However, all the discussions and policies were enunciated at the General Affairs Council, even as late as this week. The International Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA, is still involved, which is good because if there is to be progress, it must be involved. We will see what happens on this issue on 2 and 3 February when the agency meets in Vienna. Outside our role in the General Affairs Council, I do not envisage Ireland having a more enhanced role in this area in the short term.

I spoke earlier about India and the nuclear issue. India is aware that if it wishes to make any progress on this, it must convince the nuclear suppliers group. India is prepared to do whatever it is asked to do by the suppliers group and the international community and to give whatever guarantees are required on proliferation issues, provided it can secure a deal on nuclear power issues. Obviously, the authorities will not show their hand but they made it clear to me that nuclear energy is necessary for energy requirements and for the future development of their huge country. They know they must give guarantees on the other side but they are prepared to do that. However, they are hell-bent on securing nuclear energy for those purposes so I believe they will comply with whatever the international agreements require of them.

Did the Deputy have another question?

Is there a role for Ireland in the negotiations with Iran?

I do not think so. We have continued to have a good relationship with Iran. Delegations from Iran have been here and the previous foreign Minister was a regular visitor. Our role must remain within the General Affairs and External Relations Council and the situation is being tightly monitored through that.

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