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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 9 Feb 2006

Vol. 614 No. 3

University College Galway (Amendment) Bill 2005 [Seanad]: Committee and Remaining Stages.

NEW SECTIONS.

Amendments Nos. 12 and 34 are related to amendment No. 1 and all may be taken together.

I move amendment No. 1:

In page 3, before section 1, to insert the following new section:

"1.—In this Act, "Principal Act" means the University College Galway Act 1929.".

These are technical amendments intended to ensure the name "National University of Ireland Galway" rather than "University College Galway" is used, as the name has changed.

This legislation amends the University College Galway Act 1929 and it is not appropriate to adopt the new title.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I move amendment No. 2:

In page 3, before section 1, to insert the following new section:

"1.—The Preamble to the Principal Act is repealed.".

This relates to the same issue.

It is not related to the first issue because it is much more involved. Ní gá ach féachaint ar an preamble le féachaint cad atá i gceist. Sin ceann de na háiteanna a deir sé go bhfuil dualgas ar an choláiste ó thaobh na Gaeilge:

. . .the Governing Body of the said College has lately made provision by statute for securing that certain of professors and lecturers of the said College shall deliver their lectures in the Irish language, and proposes to take such further steps as circumstances may permit to secure that an increasing proportion of academic and administrative functions of the said College shall be performed through the medium of the Irish language.

Is oth liom go bhfuil Páirtí an Lucht Oibre ag iarraidh fáil réidh leis an preamble sin.

This amendment is not necessary, given that the dualgas will be kept on the college in the legislation.

Tá sé tábhachtach go ndéanaim soiléir ar son Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre nach bhfuil muid ag déanamh aon iarrachta éalúó spriocanna atá leagtha síos sa teideal mar a bhí sé. An dóigh cheart chun é a chur i gcrích ná glacadh leis an phlean straitéiseach. I leasuithe eile, tá mé ag athrú an commitment maidir le liostanna de na haidhmeanna éagsúla sa dóigh is go mbeidh sé mar cheann de na bun-phrionsabail taobh istigh de na haidhmeanna nithe áirithe a bhaint amach leis an Ghaeilge a chur ar aghaidh. Níl sé ceart a rá go bhfuil muid ag éalú ó commitment ar bith, beag nó mór, don Ghaeilge nó do theagasc frí mheán na Gaeilge. B'fhéidir go bhfuil muid ar aon intinn leis an Aire gur féidir é sin a bhaint amach i gcomhthéacs bun-ailt a leagann síos oibleagáidíéagsúla don phlean straitéiseach.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn

Amendments Nos. 3, 4, 13 to 16, inclusive, 18, 21, 22, 24 to 26, inclusive, 32 and 36 will be taken together.

I move amendment No. 3:

In page 3, before section 1, to insert the following new section:

"1.—The Principal Act is amended by the deletion of section 1 and the substitution therefor of the following section:

1.—In this Act "University" means the National University of Ireland, Galway.".".

These amendments relate to the issue raised in amendment No. 1. I will withdraw them to save time.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment No. 4 not moved.

Amendments Nos. 5, 10, 27 and 39 will be taken together.

I move amendment No. 5:

In page 3, before section 1, to insert the following new section:

"1.—Section 25(1) of the Universities Act 1997 is amended by inserting the following paragraph after paragraph (c):

"(d) their intended duties and the intended duties of the University under the National University of Ireland, Galway (Amendment) Act 2006 and the Official Languages Act 2003 and the schemes relating thereto, as well as enquiring into and including the applicant’s fluency in the Irish language.”.”.

Rinne mé trácht air seo níos luaithe. Cuireann sé iontas orm gur ligeadh an leasú seo tríd mar rialadh na leasuithe eile a bhain le píosaí eile d'Acht na nOllscoileanna as ord. Is cóir an reachtaíocht mar a bhí a athrú agus nach mbeidh bac ar dhuine fostaithe san ollscoil ach is ceart ar a laghad go bhfuil ceist curtha an bhfuil Gaeilge aige agus cé chomh líofa is atá sé. Tá meon ann nár chóir aon cheist mar seo a bheith ann ach is cóir. Má tá duine a rá go bhfuil idirdhealú déanta air toisc gur cuireadh ceist air faoin teanga, níl sé ceart. Caithfimid bheith in ann i gcónaí an cheist sin a chur le fáil amach an bhfuil bá fiú ag an duine don Ghaeilge. B'fhéidir go mbeimid ag iarraidh air Gaeilge a fhoghlaim agus níl bá ar bith aige don Ghaeilge agus níl sé sásta tacú le cur chun na Gaeilge sna hollscoileanna. Is ceart go mbeidh dualgas mar sin ann go ndéanaimid fiosrúchán éigin faoin Ghaeilge, go mbeimid in ann í a chur chun cinn agus go mbeimid in ann a mheas cad é an plean atá againn má tá muid ag cur scéime le chéile faoi Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla mar atá déanta ag an choláiste. Tá an plean ag an choláiste go maith ach ní théann sé fada go leor domsa.

Níl mé ag baint an iomarca leis an cheist seo mar ba mhaith liom díriú isteach ar cheisteanna eile ach nuair a bhí mé ag cur an leasaithe seo le chéile bhí fadhb mhór agam. Dúradh linne nuair a bhí muid ag baint le ceist na dteangacha oifigiúla go mbeadh gach Bille ar fáil i nGaeilge roimh i bhfad. Low and behold chuaigh mé le fiosrú an Bhille seo agus níl sé ar fáil i nGaeilge — Acht na nOllscoileanna 1997, naoi mbliain ó shin, agus fós ní féidir liom teacht ar an Ghaeilge. Toisc nach raibh sé ar fáil i nGaeilge agus nach bhfuil an Bille seo ar fáil i nGaeilge, ní raibh cead agam de réir an Bills Office, agus thug sí cuidiú dom na leasuithe a chuir mé síos i nGaeilge a aistriú go Béarla. Sin cé chomh trom ar chúl is atá an áit seo. Chaith mise an lá ar fad inné ag baint le haistriúchán go Béarla de stuif a chuir mé síor i nGaeilge.

Ag labhairt ar leasú Uimh. 10, tá mé ag lorg na hathraithe seo le go mbeadh sé glan soiléir ón chéad léamh ag aon duine ar na dualgais go gcaithfidh sé féachaint i gcónaí ar na hAchtanna difriúla agus na dualgais atá aige dá réir. Ní díreach faoin Ghaeilge amháin atá sé ach caithfidh go mbeidh Gaeilge san áireamh i gcónaí nuair a bheidh bord meastacháin ag bualadh mar gheall ar dhuine nua a fhostú. Míníonn leasú Uimh. 27 cad atá i gceist sna leasuithe eile nuair a luaigh mé scéim.

I leasú Uimh. 39, tá i gceist go mbeadh sé luaite san fhotheideal go bhfuil dualgas áirithe ag an choláiste i leith na Gaeilge. Tá céim siar glactha againn maidir leis an dualgas áirithe a bhí tugtha don ollscoil. B'fhéidir go raibh sé mícheart an tslí a raibh sé curtha síos ar pháipéar ach bhí an aidhm cheart ag Earnán de Blaghd nuair a chuir sé síos é; bhí sé ag triall le rud a dhéanamh. B'fhéidir sa lá atá inniu ann nach sin an tslí lena dhéanamh. Toisc nach bhfuil an Rialtas seo agus nach raibh aon Rialtas roimhe seo sásta ollscoil lán-Ghaelach a dhéanamh, is gá ceann de na hollscoileanna a roghnú ar a bhfuil an dualgas breise bheith mar cheannródaíó thaobh na Gaeilge de agus tá sin comhlíonta ag Coláiste na hOllscoile Gaillimhe go dtí seo. Tá sé i gceist ag an dream atá ann faoi láthair leanúint leis ach tá mise ag iarraidh go mbeadh sé i reachtaíocht go bhfuil an dualgas sin aige agus go gcuirfear leis.

Cuirfear leis má ghlacfar agus má chuirfear leis na scéimeanna atá aige gach uile trí bhliain nuair atá siad os comhair an Aire Gaeltachta. Is rud maith é go bhfuil a leithéid de scéim ann go bhfeicimid cad é an dul chun cinn a bheidh ann agus conas mar a chomhlíonfar í. An fhadhb is mó atá ann ná go bhfuil a fhios ag gach duine faoi na pleananna straitéiseacha a bhíonn ag eagrais agus comhlachtaí agus b'fhéidir in ollscoileanna, cé go bhfuil súil agam nach bhfuil an ceart agam; titeann siad ar leataobh agus ní shroichtear na buaic-phointí nó nithe eile atá i gceist. Tá súil agam nach dtarlóidh sé sin.

Toisc go bhfuil mé ag rá gur chóir go mbeadh an dualgas breise sin ag an ollscoil seo go háirithe is ceart go mbeadh breis airgid curtha ar leataobh. Toisc an riail sheafóideach a bheith againn sa Teach seo nach féidir leis an Fhreasúra leasuithe a chur chun cinn mar gheall ar chaiteachas, ní féidir linn a rá conas mar a rialófar na smaointí atá againn nó na rudaí atá á gcur chun cinn againn. Bhí sé i gceist sna leasuithe, toisc go mbeadh dualgas breise ag an ollscoil, go gcuirfear airgead sa bhreis ar an ghnáth-airgead a fhaigheann sé ar fáil. Ní raibh mé ag caitheamh amach dualgais breise ar an ollscoil go deor na ndeor.

Is cóir dúinn i gcónaí an oiread cosaintí agus is féidir a bheith ann don seasamh atá ag an Ghaeilge san ollscoil seo agus gach ollscoil. Sin an fáth go bhfuil mé ag iarraidh go mbeadh sé i reachtaíocht.

Tá mé ag brostú tríd an stuif seo chun seans a thabhairt do dhaoine eile labhairt air seo.

On a point of order, when I was speaking to amendment No. 1, I assumed the amendments that were grouped with it would have had something to do with changing the title to NUIG. On receiving the list of groupings, I realise that even the Minister's amendment No. 15, which she shares with me, has also been grouped, as have some of the other amendments which propose to change the substance of section 1(3). For example, the Green Party's amendment was grouped with mine, whereas the Fine Gael amendment was not, even though they are practically the same. I object to the groupings because we should have an opportunity to debate the amendments. While I am happy to group the amendments that relate to the title "NUIG", I do not agree with grouping the other amendments that deal with the substance of section 1(3).

The issue does not arise until we reach amendment No. 15. Perhaps when we get that far, we will allow a brief discussion on the amendments.

It is only fair.

I agree with Deputy O'Sullivan.

Tiocfaimid ar ais do na leasuithe sin. Tá sé ait bheith ag labhairt i nGaeilge ar leasú atá scríofa i mBéarla — aontaím leis an Teachta Ó Snodaigh air sin. Caithfimid féachaint ar an mBille seo ó thaobh an chúlra reachtaíochta eile atá ann, Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla. De réir na reachtaíochta sin caithfidh na hinstitiúidí tríú leibhéil ar fad a gcuid a dhéanamh ar son na teanga. Caithfidh siad go léir straitéis a leagan amach á rá cad a dhéanfaidh siad chun an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn. Tá straitéis ag NUIG le plean ó thaobh an Achta sin. Téann an dá rud i lámh le chéile agus mar sin ní gá glacadh leis na leasuithe atá curtha síos ag an Teachta Ó Snodaigh because the Official Languages Act already gives that protection and guarantee.

Were I to accept amendments Nos. 5 and 10, this would lead to a return of the 1929 Act because what the Deputy is aiming to do is impose certain conditions on the employment of persons to any position in the university. What we are doing here is trying to remove a condition on employment of persons to the university under the 1929 Act. The direction in which we are going in this case is at the core of the Bill and these amendments would be in direct conflict with it.

Tá deacracht faoi Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla cionn is go bhfuil sé leagtha síos mar alt gur féidir le hinstitiúid ar bith iarratas a chur isteach gan bac leis an dualgas san Acht. In other words, the capacity is expressly stated in the Official Languages Act, that an institution involved may make an application to be removed from the obligation that falls on it in regard to the language. That is the difficulty. It is much better if the commitment in regard to the language is in the university's own legislation. When I listened to the arguments put forward on this point I was impressed by the fact that one cannot argue that one can run on, as it were, the obligations of the Official Languages Act and say that this deals with it. What would happen, for example, if at a time in the future a governing authority submitted an application to be relieved of this obligation? That question must be answered. It can be answered by strengthening the commitment in the University College Galway (Amendment) Bill. That is the issue.

Ní sé i gceist go mbeadh bac ar aon duine ach go mbeadh sé de chead ag údaráis an choláiste an cheist a chur mar tá seans ann go mbeadh duine ag rá go mbeadh idirdhealú déanta air toisc gur cuireadh an cheist sa chéad dul síos, that somebody would be discriminated against just because the question was on an application form, aptitude test or was asked by a board. Even though it would not be a restriction, it would be the duty of the college in this case. My intention was to make sure that the college was to the fore in promoting the language, that it would have a duty just to question at the very least whether somebody had a language ability.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendments Nos. 6 to 10, inclusive, not moved.
SECTION 1.

Amendments Nos. 11, 31, 33, 35 and 37 are related and will be discussed together by agreement.

I move amendmentNo. 11:

In page 3, line 10, before "The" to insert the following:

"Acht Choláiste Phríomh-Scoile na Gaillimhe, 1929 and in English,".

Is pointe beag é, ach ardaím go rialta é. Ó thaobh an stádais atá ag an Ghaeilge mar príomhtheanga, tá príomh-Theideal an Bille seo as Gaeilge, agus dá réir sin ba chóir go mbeadh sé mar riail againn an Teideal a bheith i nGaeilge ar dtús agus ansin i mBéarla.

The wording is unnecessary and does not add anything to the Bill.

Tá an freagra sin tubaisteach. Má dhéanaimid ceartú ar Bhille i mBéarla nó i nGaeilge, ó thaobh gramadaí nó bealach ar bith eile, cuireann sé leis an Bille. Is trua nach bhfuil an tAire ag glacadh leis. Níor ghlac aon Aire leis seo go dtí seo mar ní thuigeann siad go bhfuil an leagan Gaeilge den Acht chun tosaigh ar an leagan Béarla má tá cás dlí ann. Ba chóir go mbeimis i gcónaí ag úsáid an leagain Ghaeilge den teideal in Acht.

Amendment put and declared lost.
Amendment No. 12 not moved.

I move amendment No. 13:

In page 3, to delete lines 12 to 18 and substitute the following:

"3.—(1) The governing authority of the College shall ensure that the aims for the operation and development of the College set out in each strategic development plan prepared after the commencement of this section shall include the provision of a wide range of academic courses through the medium of the Irish language, as well as the creation of a functional bilingual communication culture within the managerial and administrative practices of the University.".

I was not aware earlier that this amendment was discussed with amendment No. 3 because the grouping of amendments had not been circulated at the time. I did not indicate I wanted to speak on it because I did not know it was coming up.

The amendment takes on board some of what groups such as Conradh na Gaeilge were seeking in terms of an amended wording of the proposed legislation. It reinforces the need for the college to put as one of its aims a bilingual communications culture, both within the managerial and administrative practices of the university and in the provision of academic courses. I do not intend to press the amendment. I will leave it to the Minister to accept or reject it as she sees fit.

There is a difference between this amendment and Fine Gael amendment No. 20. This amendment proposes to delete the main purpose of the Bill while our amendment seeks to add to the purpose of the Bill.

We are discussing amendment No. 13.

I wish to speak on amendment No. 13.

I will hear Deputy McCormack first.

I wish to point out that while the wording is similar to our amendment No. 20, amendment No. 13 proposes to delete the main section of the Bill, which outlines the whole purpose of the Bill, while our amendment seeks to add to the strength of what is intended. We do not seek to delete paragraph 3 but to add to it.

I will probably not get to speak on my amendment so I wish to support the elements in Deputy Gogarty's amendment that agree with amendments Nos. 15, 17 and 23 which I have tabled.

I welcome the fact the Minister has accepted our proposal to include the word "principal"; that it would be one of the principal aims of the college. I urge her to consider the other two suggestions in amendments Nos. 17 and 23, to insert after the word "education", the phrase, the provision of education "by, among other means, the provision of a wide range of courses" at the college, which is also included in Deputy Gogarty's amendment.

The intention is to ensure it would not refer to the provision of education in general which would not necessarily be interpreted in a robust way. It would depend on who was interpreting it. Including the phrase suggested would ensure a wide availability of courses through Irish, not just the availability of a small number of courses through Irish.

I have also sought to include the insertion of the following: "and a functional bilingual communications encouraged". That is very important. I hope the Minister will accept the spirit of all of these amendments and, specifically, the wording of the Labour Party amendments. I thank her for accepting the first one.

Before she replies I wish to ask the Minister if she will be accepting——

The Minister will not be replying.

Is she accepting amendment No. 20, as she appeared to indicate in reply to Second Stage? It adds to the strength of the Bill.

Bhí sé i gceist agam dá mbeadh an t-am ann go mbeadh díospóireacht i bhfad níos faide ar an cheist seo mar is é ceann de na ceisteanna móra eadrainn an píosa breise seo a bhí sa mbunleasú. Bhí an coláiste ag lorg go mbeadh sé sin sa reachtaíocht agus is trua gur fágadh amach é. B'fhéidir nach mbeadh an raic chomh mór sin ar an Bhille atá os ár gcomhair.

As it is now 3.30 p.m., I am obliged to put the following question in accordance with an order of the Dáil today: "That the amendments set down by the Minister for Education and Science for Committee Stage and not disposed of, with the exception of amendments Nos. 28 to 30, inclusive, and amendment No. 38, are hereby made to the Bill, in respect of each of the sections undisposed of that the section or, as appropriate, the section as amended is hereby agreed to in Committee, the Title is hereby agreed to in Committee, the Bill, as amended, is, accordingly, reported to the House, Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed."

Question put and agreed to.

The Bill, which is considered by virtue of Article 20.2.2° of the Constitution as a Bill initiated in Seanad Éireann will now be sent to the Seanad.

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