Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 3 Apr 2007

Vol. 635 No. 1

Adjournment Debate.

Schools Building Projects.

Mr. Sherlock

I wish to speak about the urgent need for the Minister for Education and Science to address the serious delay in granting St. Mary's community school, Buttevant, County Cork, permission to build a new school to provide for an increase in student population after ten years delay. This is a major issue that I have been raising for some time.

The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, must expedite this decision by notifying the County Cork Vocational Education Committee of her approval for the new school. She must also make a public statement indicating that she has done so to assure increasingly disillusioned and frustrated people who have been waiting for movement on this important issue since 1997.

Hitherto, when I have attempted to raise this matter by way of a Dáil question or by seeking a special debate, I have been informed by the Minister that the progress of the project will be considered in the context of her Department's multi-annual school building and modernisation programme. However, like so many other school programmes, this programme is insufficient to meet the needs of St. Mary's community school and full funding must be granted for the new facilities that are required.

The population of north Cork in particular is growing at an astonishing rate. Increasing pressure is being placed on all public services, but especially on our schools, our hospitals and our transport infrastructure. It is not just Dublin and its expanding commuter belt that is experiencing such problems. For many years the failure to provide new school buildings and school places has been a major issue for Buttevant and the surrounding area. Buttevant already has a secondary school but, in the past ten years, it has had to make do with the existing building. Long-promised new facilities, such as a new school for St. Mary's, will be insufficient to meet the needs of the local community by the time they are delivered.

The Minister must act now. I am not prepared to listen to the same old excuses and for the project to be put on the long finger once again.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. Kitt)

I thank the Deputy for raising the matter as it affords me the opportunity to outline to the House the Government's strategy for capital investment in education projects.

Modernising facilities in our 3,200 primary and 750 post-primary schools is not an easy task given the legacy of decades of underinvestment in this area as well as the need to respond to emerging needs in areas of rapid population growth. Nonetheless, since taking office, this Government has shown a focused determination to improve the condition of our school buildings and to ensure that the appropriate facilities are in place to enable the implementation of a broad and balanced curriculum.

Under the National Development Plan 2007-2013, funding of €4.5 billion will be invested in the first and second level schools modernisation and development programme. This unprecedented level of investment will allow us to meet the needs of a growing school population, to modernise existing school facilities and to provide for curriculum reform and innovation.

Turning to the specific matter in hand, St. Mary's community college is the only post-primary school in Buttevant and is a co-educational provider with a current enrolment of 186 mainstream pupils. Originally, County Cork VEC applied to the school planning section of the Department of Education and Science for funding towards the provision of a new school building on a greenfield site for St. Mary's community college. The proposed new school building was to cater for a long-term projected enrolment of 325 pupils and the project reached an early stage of architectural planning in 2001. At that time, the VEC identified a site for the new school and paid a deposit. The site acquisition was not finalised for a number of reasons and the vendors returned the deposit.

In light of declining enrolments at the school, the school planning section of the Department carried out a review of second level education provision in the area in consultation with the school authority. This review took into account factors such as enrolment trends at the school, the impact of projected housing developments and the existing school provision in the general area. On completion of this review, the Department's initial decision to provide a new school on a greenfield site in Buttevant was confirmed and officials in the school planning section are currently finalising the long-term projected enrolment for this project.

Approval was given to County Cork VEC to identify a suitable site for the project and a site has now been acquired for that purpose. The building project required to deliver the new accommodation will be considered in the context of the multi-annual school building and modernisation programme.

Once again, I thank the Deputy for raising this matter which allows me the opportunity to outline the position of St. Mary's community college.

Asylum Applications.

Mr. Costello

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for choosing this matter for the Adjournment. It is a request for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to expedite the asylum application of Mr. Adnan Mohammedi, an Iranian Kurd, who is a victim of torture and whose wife and child are in hiding in the Kurdish region of Iraq. The other Deputies associated with this issue are Deputies Ó Snodaigh, Joe Higgins, Finian McGrath, Healy and Cowley. If any of the aforementioned Members enter the Chamber while I am speaking, I will give way to them.

The Minister should review urgently the existing procedures for processing asylum applications in order that those who have been persecuted or tortured are not obliged to wait for years to have their applications determined. A period of two years is far too long. While the Minister would assert the period is six months, in practice one finds that most applications take years to process and this is a case in point.

Mr. Adnan Mohammedi is an Iranian Kurd who fled to Ireland a couple of years ago. He was a member of Komala, the Iranian socialist party, and he was engaged in underground political work for the party in Iran between 1990 and 2003. His activities brought him to the attention of Iranian agents who disclosed his whereabouts and activities and he was obliged to flee Iran to receive protection and asylum. Similarly, his wife and child were obliged to flee to the Kurdish part of Iraq for protection, where they are now in hiding.

Adnan is in a desperate state of mind. He is beside himself with worry and concern regarding his family's welfare and safety and, naturally, he wishes to look for them. The Minister of State may recall that he has gone on hunger strike a number of times and on the last occasion he had his lips sown together to prevent him from consuming water and food. Eventually, after 15 days, he was prevailed upon to end his hunger and thirst strike. He went on hunger strike in an effort to secure a visa to travel to Iraq to search for his wife and child there. As I said, he is beside himself with worry and concern.

There are two obvious ways in which to solve this problem. The first is to give him a visa, which would be difficult because he lacks the requisite documents to return to Ireland. The second solution is to expedite his application for asylum in order that he is not obliged to spend longer waiting to get recognition and to receive refugee status. The Minister of State should address the issue in an urgent fashion. This is a human case in which a person who is worried about his family is suffering intensely. Were his application to be processed and refugee status granted to him — as Members hope — he would be able to seek his wife and child and to begin his life again and to re-engage in proper family life. This issue rests with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and I hope the Minister of State has some good news.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley)

It is important that I preface my remarks by pointing out that it has been the policy of successive Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform not to comment on individual asylum applications.

However, it is a fundamental principle underlying the asylum process that when asylum seekers come here and seek our protection that their cases are fairly and independently examined. The definition of a refugee is set out in section 2 of the Refugee Act 1996. Subject to certain exceptions, including where persons may be excluded from refugee status on security related grounds, that definition is:

a person who, owing to a well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his or her nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself or herself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his or her former habitual residence, is unable or, owing to such fear, unwilling to return to it.

As the Deputy is aware, under the Refugee Act 1996, two independent statutory offices were established to consider applications or appeals in respect of refugee status and to make recommendations to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on whether such status should be granted. These offices are the Refugee Applications Commissioner and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal.

In addition, the UNHCR is given full access to the refugee determination process and can examine any case at any time to ensure that fair procedures and our obligations under the Geneva Convention are complied with. The task, therefore, for the independent refugee determination agencies, in the case of each individual asylum seeker, is to determine whether, following investigation, he or she is deemed to come within the terms of that definition on the basis of all of the information given by or obtained in respect of the applicant.

Every asylum application is considered on its own individual merits. Every asylum applicant is guaranteed an investigation and determination of his or her claim at first instance by the Refugee Applications Commissioner. Where it is necessary and possible, investigations are conducted with the assistance of an interpreter. Applicants are interviewed by an authorised officer on behalf of the Refugee Applications Commissioner and such authorised officers receive full and comprehensive training in the interviewing of persons seeking a declaration as a refugee.

Following each interview, an assessment is made of the core elements relating to the case. Consideration is given to the subjective and objective elements of the application. The subjective element of an asylum application concerns the applicant's individual circumstances as they are perceived and described by him or her. The objective element of the application concerns the relevant country of origin information, which comes from a wide variety of sources including, for example, information from organisations such as the UNHCR, Amnesty International, Canadian boards of immigration and other EU member states, as well as media and Internet sources. In addition to these periodically updated sources, the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal have access to up to date news reports regarding events and developments in the countries concerned.

The assessment carried out includes determining whether an applicant has a well founded fear of persecution, whether the persecution is related to a convention reason, whether the applicant is unable or unwilling to return to his or her own country, what internal protection alternative, if any, might be available within his or her own country, as well as credibility issues, which are always extremely important to consider.

Every asylum applicant is guaranteed a right of appeal to a statutorily independent and separate body, namely, the Refugee Appeals Tribunal. Every asylum applicant is also guaranteed access to legal assistance provided by the refugee legal service. I can inform the Deputy that a final decision on this application will be made on receipt of the decision of the Refugee Appeals Tribunal.

Hospital Services.

Mr. O’Connor

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the interest he has shown in this matter and for facilitating me and Deputy Crowe again. The reason we have raised the issue together, as neighbours in Tallaght, is because of our extreme concern regarding the manner in which this issue is now developing and the way it is being handled. Less than 50 days remain before the general election and a great deal of politics is in the offing. However, the people of Tallaght seek clarity in respect of the hospital's future. The HSE took the decision, approved by the Government, to locate the new major children's hospital — some call it a "super hospital" — at the Mater site. We had difficulty in accepting that but we have moved on. Now we want to know what the future plans are for Tallaght Hospital.

I was present some weeks ago when the Taoiseach visited the CDI project in Jobstown and members of the national media asked him if the children's hospital in Tallaght would close, as is claimed by some political posters in Tallaght and even in The Echo this morning. He said the children’s services at Tallaght Hospital are not closing. That is the question we want answered. I raised the matter last week in the Dáil. The Ceann Comhairle is aware that I have raised it at every opportunity at the committee on health and in the Dáil in various Adjournment debates and through other procedures. Last week the Minister said that no decision has yet been taken as far as the future delivery of services in the region is concerned.

The Echo covers local issues well. It states in its editorial this morning:

‘Medical politics' is a very interesting phenomenon that looks set to feature strongly in the election whenever it is called. The phrase is extremely apt in terms of our report this week on whether it is actually possible for Tallaght Hospital to co-operate with the planned new children's hospital at the Mater. It seems that the charter that rules what Tallaght Hospital can and cannot do dictates that it must develop and improve the facilities at the hospital. Obviously moving any part of the operation to the Mater ..... would conflict with this obligation.

Another report that has worried people in the Tallaght region suggests that the Department of Health and Children has sent a copy of the proposed statutory instruments to the hospital. A prominent member of the hospital board and the director of the Adelaide Hospital Society made reference to that at a political party meeting last week. It prompted a member of the Tallaght Hospital Action Group to say: "These statutory instruments will finally bring into law what we are all afraid of — Tallaght Hospital closing".

The Minister will understand my concern and emotions on this subject. Even if I did not live in and represent Tallaght, I would still believe that the Tallaght Hospital services must be maintained.

Mr. Costello

The Deputy is not from Tallaght; he was not born there.

Mr. O’Connor

Let me make my point. The Ceann Comhairle appointed me to the Tallaght Hospital board in 1988 and I have taken a strong interest in the project since then. I was a member of the board that opened the hospital in 1998. I live in the shadow of Tallaght Hospital and, like my neighbours in Tallaght, I want to know the position with regard to the future delivery of services. We cannot create a situation where children's hospital services will not continue to be delivered and, indeed, developed on the Tallaght Hospital site.

The Minister of State probably has a prepared script. I hope he listens to what I and my colleague, Deputy Crowe, say on this matter and tries to get answers for us. We simply want to know what the future holds for the children's hospital in Tallaght. That is what people in the area are asking. This is not just about the election, as I hope to be campaigning for Tallaght Hospital long after it, in whatever role I hold. What is the position with the hospital?

Mr. Crowe

I appreciate the fact that this matter has been selected for discussion. It is important for people living in the area. People are also concerned about what is happening with regard to Crumlin hospital, Temple Street Hospital and the Mater Hospital. The roll out of services affects children throughout the country and that is the reason we are focusing on it.

Major decisions are being made about children and their well-being. The difficulty for public representatives is that the people affected by the decisions are not being told what they are. They are not being given the full story. Last November, I raised a matter on the Adjournment in this regard. I spoke about the necessity for the Minister for Health and Children to respond on the proposed future development of hospital and community services in south Dublin and its hinterland. The Minister said that no decision had been made about services to be provided at the National Children's Hospital in Tallaght in the context of the national paediatric hospital and associated urgent care centres. Has any decision been made about the roll-out of those services? When will these important decisions be made? A statutory instrument has been sent to the board of Tallaght Hospital but people are still in the dark about what is proposed.

A total of 32,000 children attended Tallaght Hospital last year while 30,000 children visited Our Lady's Hospital in Crumlin. The local newspaper, The Echo, has suggested that the board of the hospital met to discuss proposals or requests to eventually move the service to the Mater site. According to the newspaper report, a prominent spokesperson said that the hospital will not be moving and that it is seeking to enhance the hospital’s services, as its charter directs it to do. The hospital intends to adhere to the charter.

On 27 February 2007, the Taoiseach, when asked about the new paediatric hospital at the Mater, said that he did not envisage any changes in Tallaght Hospital, regardless of what happens. He made similar remarks at the opening of a centre in Kilnamanagh. However, this appears to contradict remarks attributed to the Minister for Health and Children, who spoke to representatives of a local action group on 16 January last. She said there would be no tertiary services at Tallaght Hospital. These services deal with serious illnesses such as heart problems, cancer and so forth. She also said there would be no secondary children's medical services at Tallaght, which cover illnesses such as tonsillitis, broken limbs, appendicitis and so forth. The Minister further stated there would be little day surgery, no children's accident and emergency service and no inpatient or overnight beds for children.

What children's services will be left in Tallaght Hospital? The area has one of the country's largest youth populations but there will be no local facility for children. As local representatives do not know and the Taoiseach and the Minister for Health and Children do not appear to know or at least are making contradictory statements on the subject, I hope the Minister will clarify the situation and erase some of the worries shared by parents and residents of the area. This issue affects not only them but people throughout the city. They are concerned about where this strategy is leading.

The people in Our Lady's Hospital in Crumlin have said publicly that they will not move to the new Mater site. A representative of the board of Tallaght Hospital, according to the report in the local newspaper, says it will not downgrade children's services at the hospital and suggests it is not moving. There is talk of a realignment and a merger of the hospital in Crumlin with the Coombe Hospital. What elements remain of the proposed roll-out of paediatric services in Dublin? The boards of the various hospitals appear to be taking a different direction from that put forward in the McKinsey report. I can quote other people on this issue. There are many contradictions in what is being said publicly and privately.

Regardless of the election, there is great concern about this issue. People have a stake in the hospital and they want to know what will happen to it. The hospital in Tallaght is an amalgamation of a number of hospitals, including the National Children's Hospital. The remarks being made by different individuals seem to suggest that thechildren's part of Tallaght Hospital will be removed.

Mr. T. O’Malley

I am replying on behalf of my colleague, Deputy Harney, the Minister for Health and Children. I thank Deputies Crowe and O'Connor for raising this matter on the Adjournment.

In late 2005, the Health Service Executive, at the Minister's request, undertook a review of tertiary paediatric services. McKinsey and Company were engaged by the HSE to advise on the future strategic organisation of tertiary paediatric services in line with best practice and in the best interests of children.

The resulting report, "Children's Health First — International best practice in tertiary paediatric services: implications for the strategic organisation of tertiary paediatric services in Ireland", included a number of key recommendations. It stated that the population and projected demands in this country can support only one world class tertiary paediatric hospital, and that this hospital should be in Dublin and should ideally be co-located with a leading adult academic hospital, that is, should be within walking distance of such a hospital. It should also provide all the secondary, namely, less complex, hospital needs of children in the greater Dublin area. It should be supported by a strategically located urgent care service.

A joint HSE-Department of Health and Children task group was established in February 2006 to advise on the optimum location of the proposed new hospital. The task group recommended that the new national paediatric hospital be developed on a site to be made available by the Mater Hospital. This recommendation was endorsed by the board of the HSE in June 2006. At its meeting on 8 June 2006, the Government strongly endorsed the recommendation of the board of the HSE, in line with the recommendation of the report of the task group, that the new national paediatric hospital be developed as an independent hospital on a site to be made available by the Mater Hospital. The Government subsequently reaffirmed this decision.

The Government also mandated the HSE to move forward with the development of the new hospital and its associated urgent care centres and to explore any philanthropic proposals in respect of its development. A joint HSE-Department of Health and Children transition group was subsequently established to advance the development of the national paediatric hospital.

The current stage of the process, which is being overseen by the transition group, involves the preparation of a high level framework brief for the new hospital. This brief is being developed for the transition group by Rawlinson Kelly & Whittlestone Limited, RKW, an established UK-based health care planning company. RKW will be advising on a range of issues which will help to inform the design of the new hospital. For example, it will advise on the preferred model of care, the core services to be delivered at the new hospital and the additional range of services to be provided outside the main hospital through the urgent ambulatory care service, taking account of international best practice in the planning of children's hospital services. Children attending an urgent care centre who need to be admitted to hospital will be transferred to the new hospital for secondary or tertiary care.

The report specifically stated that 85% to 90% of children presenting to accident and emergency units do not require to be admitted to hospital and, in the circumstances, it can be anticipated that children attending an urgent care centre associated with the new national paediatric hospital will continue to be treated at the centre and discharged home.

To date, no decision has been taken in respect of the range of services to be provided at the National Children's Hospital in Tallaght in the context of the development of the national paediatric hospital and its associated urgent ambulatory care centres.

RKW has engaged in an extensive consultation process in the course of its work, including consultations with the National Children's Hospital in Tallaght and the other children's hospitals in Dublin, and its report is expected to be completed this month.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.55 p.m. until10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 4 April 2007.