Vol. 635 No. 3
1 Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the number of social and affordable housing units his Department expects to be completed in 2007 on foot of Part V of the Planning and Development Acts; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13819/07]
Output from Part V has been increasing in recent years according as general housing activity has expanded and planning permissions which predated the implementation of Part V have been increasingly built out. From a position in 2002 where just 46 homes were delivered, provisional data indicate that 1,600 affordable homes and approximately 600 social homes were delivered under Part V in 2006. The total of approximately 2,200 homes delivered last year represented a very significant increase of approximately 60% on the corresponding level of delivery in 2005.
Predictions of future output under Part V are necessarily subject to a number of uncertain variables. These include the volume of housing development for which planning permission is granted, the finalisation of individual agreements between local authorities and developers, and the timing of commencement and phasing of individual developments. Notwithstanding the uncertainty associated with these variables, it is estimated that 3,500 social and affordable homes will be provided under Part V in 2007, of which it is estimated 2,400 will be affordable homes. This would represent a further significant increase in delivery of close to 60% compared with last year's level of activity.
I am satisfied that Part V is rapidly gathering momentum and is being implemented effectively across the country, contributing significantly to the provision of social and affordable housing, within the comprehensive policy approach contained in the Government's recently launched statement Delivering Homes, Sustaining Communities.
I understand that approximately 80,000 homes were built last year. Not every house is in a Part V scheme. However, there is a very paltry return of approximately 3,000 homes when it should be 10,000, 15,000 or even 20,000. It is a very poor result from Part V. The question is directed towards local authorities and how they are performing. Does the Minister of State have a list of local authorities detailing the ones with which he is not satisfied and those with which he is satisfied? The average price of a home nationally has risen to more than €300,000. That is a lot of money and it is not affordable for many people. Other Deputies in the House have pointed out recently that in Kildare one would need an income of approximately €67,000 per annum to get into the market for affordable homes. This is not sustainable. The Minister of State is not providing lower income or even average income families with the capacity to provide their own homes. He has failed completely.
Does the Minister of State intend to address the issue of the footprint of the site in that not all groups of five or more homes or apartments fall under Part V because of a site restriction below which they do not have to operate under Part V?
Last year's output is considerable, if one looks at the figures over five years — 46, then 163, 600, just under 1,400, and 2,200. That is a considerable increase. Part V does not apply and was never intended to apply to everything.
I understand that.
It does not apply to one-off housing. While there is very little one-off housing around the Dublin area now, approximately 26% or 27% of housing in the country is one-off housing. It increases as one gets further from Dublin. It does not apply to small developments of under five units, nor does it apply to unzoned land. Zoned land is still a peculiarity around the big urban areas. As one goes out even to reasonable sized towns and villages further away from Dublin, the land is unzoned.
Could that not be changed?
It could, but that is not the purpose of Part V. In many areas houses are not unaffordable. The affordability problem is in the greater urban areas. The 2001 Act related to zoned land on the basis that that was where the affordability problem lay and where there was a demand for affordable homes. There is probably only another year or so of planning permissions that got approval before the new Bill came through. As those old planning permissions die out, Part V will apply to everything.
The Deputy mentioned that an income of €67,000 would be required to get into the affordable housing market. That would be the case for a single person seeking to buy a three-bedroom family house. One can play around with statistics and make the figures look ridiculous if one likes. It is usually couples who seek three bedroom semi-detached houses. Relatively ordinary people earning €35,000 or €40,000 would, as a couple, reach the amount cited by Deputy O'Dowd. A single person with only one income would not normally buy a three bedroom semi-detached house. That is not the market for which we are trying to cater. Last year, 2,200 housing units were built and we expect an increase of between 50% and 60% on that figure this year. Part V will be a significant source of social and affordable housing in the future.
Although 80,000 houses were built last year, there has been a poor response to the need for social and affordable housing. Nothing the Minister of State has said indicates his intention to change his policy. Will he change the size of the footprint of a housing site? In some cases five or more dwellings are being built on small sites of less than 0.1 of a hectare. These developments are not affected by Part V, even when they are on zoned lands. Will the Minister of State change this regulation?
Will he review the income limits for local authority loans so that people can take greater loans from local authorities? Much affordable housing, particularly apartments, are very small. Some are so small one could not swing a cat in them. Affordable dwellings are often smaller and less attractive than other housing units in the same development.
The loan limits have been adjusted several times. They are usually adjusted every year. It may be time to look at them again. Raising income limits for loans sometimes simply means that a different category of people qualify for the loans and the houses become more expensive. However, I will check those limits. It may be time to make another adjustment.
I accept that very small apartments were built in the past. However, some time ago the Department issued new national guidelines for public consultation. Many views have been expressed on this subject. Some local authorities may already be implementing the new guidelines and they will have statutory effect when the consultation period has ended. They require an increased apartment size and a mix of housing unit sizes in each development. Some local authorities, including Dublin City Council, already have these requirements. The guidelines will give them statutory effect.
2 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the overall number of households in the State who are considered to have a housing need, to include the number of households seeking local authority and other forms of social housing; the number of households in local authority or other social housing who are considered to be living in overcrowded or otherwise unsuitable accommodation; the number in receipt of rent allowances; the number who are homeless; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13821/07]
There are a number of social housing options available to households who cannot meet their own accommodation needs, in particular, social rented accommodation provided by local authorities, by voluntary and co-operative housing bodies or under the rental accommodation scheme, RAS.
A statutory assessment of housing need is undertaken by local authorities on a triennial basis. The most recent assessment of need for social housing was undertaken by local authorities in March 2005. The results of that assessment indicated that there were 43,684 households in need of housing from local authorities. More comprehensive data in relation to the 2005 assessment were published in the Annual Bulleting of Housing Statistics, a copy of which is available on my Department's website.
My Department does not have separate figures for the number of applicants for voluntary or community housing. However, some 75% of householders to be accommodated by this sector are taken from local authority waiting lists. The rental accommodation scheme caters for the accommodation needs of households in receipt of rent supplement who have long-term housing need. The target group for RAS is the number of households on rent supplement for more than 18 months. The target figure for the end of 2006 is 31,959 households. There is, however, a significant overlap between households in receipt of rent supplement and those on local authority waiting lists. In the 2005 assessments, 2,399 households were categorised as being homeless, 4,112 households were considered to be living in overcrowded conditions and 1,725 households were considered to be living in accommodation that was unfit or unsuitable. Some 13,778 households on local authority waiting lists were in receipt of rent supplement according to the 2005 assessment.
The Minister of State has not answered the question I asked. What is the total number of people considered to have a housing need? There are 60,000 households on rent supplement. They are required to have a housing need in order to qualify for rent supplement. Not everyone on a local authority housing list is on rent supplement. The Minister of State gave the figure for those on local authority waiting lists and in receipt of rent supplement as 13,778. This leaves 30,000 households on local authority housing lists and not on rent supplement. This means the minimum number of households with a housing need is not 43,000, which figure the Minister of State repeatedly cites, but 90,000.
Can the Minister answer the question I asked? What is the total number of people considered to have a housing need? How many people cannot meet their housing needs from their own resources and require assistance from the State?
I have given Deputy Gilmore the figure from the housing needs assessment.
That is not what I asked for. If I had wanted to know about the housing needs assessment I would have stated that in my question.
That is the official method of calculating housing data. There is no total figure such as the Deputy requires.
Does the Minister of State not know the figure?
One can play around with figures and say that a certain number of people need State assistance. That assistance is being provided.
To how many is it being provided? There are 60,000 on rent allowance. Do they not have a housing need?
Yes. Approximately half of them have a long-term housing need.
They have a housing need. Otherwise they would not be getting rent allowance.
Some have a short-term housing need.
There are also 30,000 on local authority lists who are not in receipt of rent supplement. That makes 90,000. How many more are there?
One could add figures together and make 80,000 or 90,000. However, those people's needs are being met in many ways.
They are not being met.
Rent allowance is a way of meeting their needs. The Government has spent €400 million on rent allowance. Some people may have a temporary housing need and many have a long-term wish for a local authority house. By adding various figures together one can arrive at a high number. Nevertheless, the figure cited in the official triennial needs assessment is 43,684. Approximately 43% of those are single person households.
What has that to do with anything?
Some commentators may multiply the number of households by as much as eight and come up with an enormous number of individuals in need of housing. The number of single people in need of housing has increased in the past ten years. Knowing that fact helps in planning appropriate housing provision. Three bedroom semi-detached houses may not be appropriate for everyone.
No one said that.
The Minister of State is avoiding my question. I want to get an overall picture of the number of households with a housing need. How many households cannot meet their housing needs from their own resources? For a long time, the Minister of State has farmed out all kinds of figures to mislead the public on this question. He has done so again today. The 60,000 households on rent allowance have a housing need. According to the Minister of State's answer, there are 30,000 households on housing lists but not on rent allowance. That makes 90,000 households. Is 90,000 the totality?
Is the Minister of State happy at that net result? If not the final sitting day of this Dáil, it is the last day on which we will have environment questions. On the final day on which the Minister of State answers to the House for the stewardship of his ten-year-old Government, is he satisfied that 90,000 households in the State cannot meet their housing needs from their own resources? Of those households, 60,000 are in receipt of rent allowance and 30,000 are waiting on local authority housing lists.
Need is one thing and want another.
What is the difference?
Many of those people are having their needs met.
They are not. The State says they have a housing need.
Their needs are being met. Many are in the finest rented accommodation recently built.
The taxpayer is subsidising their landlords.
That might be. It is the role of the State to subsidise——
To subsidise landlords.
——and help people to find housing they cannot provide from their own resources.
It is to provide social housing.
This year alone, we are to spend €1.5 billion to provide social housing. We expect approximately 6,600 local authority starts and up to 2,000 starts in the voluntary sector. Resources have increased in each of the last few years and by 9% this year. The undertaking in Towards 2016 is that over the next three years, 27,000 new social housing units will be started. A great deal of work is being done. Even if it is of a temporary nature while they wait for full-time provision, many of the people in question are housed in very fine accommodation.
Not everyone will be able to get a local authority house. The Deputy will know about the rental accommodation scheme under which, according to the contract negotiated, people will be provided with houses for five-year or ten-year periods rather than for eternity. One does not necessarily have to own a house or be provided with a local authority house to have one's needs adequately met.
The Minister is out of touch. It is time to go.
3 Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if his attention has been drawn to the fact that there are approximately 3,000 households on the social housing waiting lists for County Louth local authorities and that this has been the case for ten years; his plans to rectify this unacceptable situation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13817/07]
The most recent assessment of social housing needs was undertaken by local authorities in March 2005. The results of the assessment indicated that 1,492 households were in need of housing in the three County Louth local authority areas. More comprehensive data from the 2005 assessment was published in the 2005 annual bulletin of housing statistics, a copy of which can be made available or found on my Department's website.
The Government is providing local authorities with the necessary resources to address housing needs in their areas. The programme of investment and policy priorities reflected in Delivering Homes, Sustaining Communities underpin the approach to increasing housing investment as set out in the National Development Plan 2007-13. The NDP envelope provides for an investment programme of approximately €21 billion, including €3 billion for rent allowance. As agreed in Towards 2016, 27,000 new social homes will be commenced or acquired and 17,000 new affordable units delivered in the initial 2007-09 period. The resources being made available under the NDP will allow for similar levels of activity post-2009. In total, it is estimated that the needs of approximately 140,000 households will be met over the full period of the national development plan.
Last year my Department provided the three local authorities in Louth with record funding of over €37 million for their housing construction and acquisition programmes. The provision represented an increase of €8 million on the funding provided in 2005. The provision enabled the three authorities to start construction of and acquire over 400 housing units and to complete and acquire almost 240 dwellings in 2006. My Department has met with all local authorities this year in the context of their proposed housing programmes for the next three years under their individual action plans.
Does the Minister of State accept that at the assessment point in 2005, many households were struck off the housing lists for failure to apply quickly enough to a local authority or, if they replied, because some minor error was detected in their applications? It is the case that thousands of people were struck off the list or not counted. Does the Minister accept that over the past ten years, the average number of people on County Louth local authorities' housing lists has been approximately 3,000, to which level they have returned notwithstanding the 2005 difficulties?
I acknowledge the enthusiasm and conscientiousness of the current county manager who has a genuine interest in housing provision, unlike her predecessor. Her genuine concern is improving the scenario in County Louth and it is only fair to acknowledge her efforts and those of her staff to meet the crisis. Does the Minister of State have a plan to deal with the Louth housing lists which have remained at such a significant average level during his ten-year tenure?
We have a plan as demonstrated by the new policy we announced some time ago. There are also individual action plans and strategies in the local authorities, for which the Department provides resources. The experts are the people on the ground at local authority level. It is good to hear the Deputy's comments on the county manager. Where officials and councillors really wish to drive these issues, progress can be made.
On the striking off of households, the local authorities told us they went to great lengths to contact people on the housing lists. Some people move around through the rent allowance scheme and end up acquiring multiple addresses. I am not sure if there are three separate housing lists in Louth. My constituency straddles the city and Fingal local authority areas and I tell people to register on the lists in both. If there were three lists in County Louth, an assessment to establish the net figure will have resulted in a co-ordination of the names on all of them. We do not consider figures on a monthly basis because while they are much higher, they are not verifiably correct. Most of the names will have been removed from the list in Louth because people were on more than one list. The figure of 43,000 was not equal to the sum for all three local authorities.
We are providing very significant resources amounting to €1.5 billion this year. Over the last couple of years, funding for local and voluntary social housing has increased significantly, especially in the context of the NESC report and the commitments in Towards 2016. Funding has increased by 9% this year and a commitment has been made to provide 27,000 social housing units in the next three years, a figure far in excess of the total provided in the recent past.
Question No. 4 has been submitted in the name of Deputy McCormack. While there is no precedent for allowing a question to be taken in the absence of the Member who submitted it, I accept that confusion was caused by the change to the Order of Business this morning. Priority questions were not supposed to be taken until 4 p.m. In fairness to Members and without establishing a precedent, I will allow Deputy O'Dowd to take Deputy McCormack's question.
Thank you.
4 Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the steps he is taking to resolve the problems surrounding the contamination of drinking water in Galway; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13818/07]
I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing this important question. Deputies have been caught off guard due to the changes to the Order of Business.
I am very conscious of the inconvenience and hardship being caused by the parasitic outbreak of cryptosporidium in Galway. I have made my Department's resources and expertise available to the local authorities in Galway to help them to resolve the problem in the shortest possible timescale.
Last Friday I travelled to Galway to meet the Galway city and county mayors and their officials, together with representatives of the Health Service Executive. I subsequently briefed public representatives on the outcome of the discussions, during which an extensive package of measures to mitigate the effects of the current situation and to accelerate a permanent solution was agreed. It was agreed at the meeting that the city and county councils would work to reduce the immediate impact on households directly affected by the present difficulties.
The main points of the agreement include continuing the efforts to identify the source or sources of the outbreak. The 2004 report of the National Disease Surveillance Centre stated that cryptosporidium is predominantly a parasite of neo-natal farm animals. Water supply output from the Tuam plant will be increased to augment the city supply. A pipe connects the Tuam plant to Galway and water may be transferred along it. The additional water supply can come on stream within a matter of weeks. The old Terryland water treatment plant will be phased out as additional water is delivered from the Tuam system.
A package treatment plant will be installed at Terryland before the end of the year. I have asked the authorities to be ambitious and to fast-track this plant. It will provide 18 million litres per day, which is more than the current output from the old Terryland plant that is at the centre of the problem. The longer-term upgrade of the Terryland treatment facility, which was approved for funding under my Department's water services investment programme from 2002 onwards, has an estimated cost of €21.46 million and is being fast-tracked.
I also indicated last Friday that I would respond positively to a request from Galway County Council, which has sought funding of approximately €27.4 million for increased water storage capacity and additional conservation measures in the Tuam regional scheme. This will allow water to be made available to the city as required in the longer term. I have given Galway County Council permission to invite tenders for these works. Incidentally, as the application was lodged only last November, the county council is to be commended on acting extremely rapidly.
Additional resources will be provided to Galway city and county councils in respect of staffing to deal with the immediate problem and the exceptional costs of, for example, water quality testing or the delivery of water to households. In addition, Galway City Council's recent application for permanent additional staff to work on its water services programme is being assessed.
My main focus is on advancing the short, medium and longer-term solutions represented by the increased supply from the Tuam regional scheme, for which I am grateful to the county council, which should allow the old Terryland plant to be decommissioned; the installation of an interim package treatment plant; and the completion of a substantive upgrading project in Terryland. Any assistance my Department can provide to the local authorities has been promised and will be forthcoming.
I call Deputy O'Dowd.
On a point of order, I wish to raise one issue with the Minister. I apologise to Deputy O'Dowd.
This is a priority question.
Was a proposal put forward to provide tankers of water for the people of Galway? This is vitally important.
While I appreciate that, this is a priority question.
This is an issue pertaining to the health of the people of Galway. Was there any——
I ask the Deputy to allow Deputy O'Dowd to respond. This is a priority question and only the Member who submitted the question is entitled to ask further questions.
I appreciate that.
I thank the Minister for his reply. This is an extremely serious public health issue. It constitutes a crisis for the people of Galway and could become a crisis in many other locations. I appreciate the EPA has asked local authorities to identify immediately areas in which public water supply may be theoretically at risk. I ask the Minister to provide Members with this information as soon as possible.
The key question is why water tankers have not been deployed in Galway to supply households. The Minister should respond. Can the Minister comment on the report published in The Irish Times today that suggests the cause may be human contamination as a result of a complete malfunction of a sewerage works in a particular location? The report states this extremely serious issue is due to over-development. These are serious issues for Galway city and county, as well as for many other locations nationwide.
The point raised by Deputies Grealish and O'Dowd pertains to the immediate problem. I accept they are both correct that there is a significant inconvenience for families in Galway and for large families in particular, who are obliged to haul water home from supermarkets.
I raised this issue with the local authorities on Friday and indicated that I was willing to help them to overcome this problem. Specifically, I suggested that if it would be helpful, I would ask my colleague, the Minister for Defence to make available either Civil Defence or Army transport to bring in water. For reasons it has discussed, the council is not disposed to taking up that proposition. I am aware the local authorities were working over the weekend on alternative means of providing emergency clean water supplies. I have told them I will provide them with any assistance or back-up required to so do.
I indicated yesterday to the council that I was somewhat frustrated to read and hear media reports to the effect that families still had not been provided with the relief mentioned by Deputies O'Dowd and Grealish. I again indicated today that I am anxious for this to happen. As a parent of four children, I well remember raising young children and I do not understand how large families in particular can cope with such an imposition. The councils have been offered resources. I have stated they may have tankers if they wish. While I do not wish to trespass on areas that are the responsibility of the councils, I wish to be as helpful as possible to them.
To be fair to Galway City Council, I realise it is dealing with a significant problem. It has devoted many hours to the issue and is highly conscious of its potential impact on the city. Deputy Grealish made the point to me earlier today that it is extremely important to send out the message that Galway remains open for business.
Hear, hear.
It is not a "no go" area. Boiling the water more than adequately deals with the problem and I understand guesthouses and hotels have taken steps on which I commend them.
Deputy O'Dowd asked a second and much more pertinent question, which is also the subject of Question No. 12. It pertains to the monitoring of water supplies. I agree with him. Last month, I introduced new water monitoring regulations that directly follow up on the suggestions made in the last EPA report. The regulations make monitoring mandatory and include a requirement for accessible public information in this regard.
The EPA's last two reports raised concerns regarding the quality and volume of monitoring taking place and indicated that while some local authorities were very good, others were not. One of the plants identified specifically as being at risk was the old Terryland plant. This is the reason there is so much mystification regarding the delays in Galway. However, this has been changed. The new regulations were introduced before the outbreak and I understand they took effect on 8 March. If Question No. 12 is reached, this issue can be dealt with in greater detail. However, I agree with Deputy O'Dowd that it is extremely important.
In general, the EPA report deals with problems in respect of group water schemes, which is the reason the latter are being taken into public ownership and the reason the Minister's legislation promoted such measures. Can the Minister comment briefly on my remarks concerning the other water supplies that may be at risk?
The testing of public water schemes is incorporated in the regulation, which deals with the issue.
5 Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he will implement his planning guidelines on a statutory basis given that local authorities are not implementing these guidelines; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13823/07]
I thank Deputy Cowley for raising this question. As Members are aware, I take a particular interest in rural housing and in the right of people to live in their own area. The guidelines for planning authorities on sustainable rural housing came into effect in April 2005. While the fact they are called guidelines is often taken to mean they are not statutorily based, they are. Although local authorities sometimes assert they do not have a statutory basis, this is incorrect. The guidelines were issued under section 28 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, which requires planning authorities and An Bord Pleanála to have regard to guidelines in the performance of their planning functions.
The guidelines provide that reasonable planning proposals on suitable sites in rural areas for persons who are part of, contribute to, or have links with the rural community should be accommodated. As Deputy Cowley is aware, the guidelines also deal specifically with those who have a need because of disability and those who wish to return to their home place, particularly emigrants who have been abroad for a long time. The guidelines thus affirm a presumption in favour of quality one-off housing in rural communities, provided proposals meet normal standards in respect of matters such as proper waste water disposal and road safety. The guidelines also classify rural areas for housing purposes and specifically address those locations, such as CLÁR areas, that have suffered from depopulation. The guidelines make specific reference to areas which have suffered systematic depopulation. Following publication of the guidelines, my Department held two seminars for local authority planning officials on implementation of the guidelines and held discussions on the matter with the planning committee of the County and City Managers Association.
Planning authorities have been asked to review their development plans with a view to incorporating any changes necessary to ensure development plan policies are consistent with the policies set out in the guidelines. My Department is continuing to monitor the implementation and effectiveness of the guidelines on an ongoing basis.
As I stated previously to Members of this House and in Seanad Éireann, if there are instances where there is a clear breach of the guidelines, I would be delighted to hear about them.
I thank the Minister for his clear reply. He stated, the "guidelines have a statutory basis as they were issued under section 28 of the Planning and Development Act 2000 which requires planning authorities and An Bord Pleanála to have regard to the guidelines in the performance of their planning functions." With respect, that is the rock on which they perish. "To have regard to" is a meaningless term which has already been tested in the courts. A case was taken against Meath County Council for not enforcing the guidelines. The difficulty is there is no binding requirement.
Local authorities have no right to inquire about blood lines, as they are doing in establishing the right of a person to live in a particular area. Great confusion has been created. Even though the Minister stated the guidelines have a statutory basis, there is no adherence to them. In west and north County Mayo in particular where the population has declined by 1,100, the number of one-off houses in the countryside is one third of the total, yet the percentage of planning permissions has fallen to 22% when it should be 33% to sustain one-off rural housing. People are being asked intrusive questions they should not be asked, especially given that the area is in serious decline and there is no pressure on land. The census figures which are due should confirm this state of affairs. I am aware of returning emigrants who have gone home because of the guidelines.
A similar situation pertains to the road safety regulations which the Minister left to the local authorities to enforce. They do not enforce them and they are resisting them. I tabled a question on this matter but it was not accepted. The Minister is aware of the situation and I know he is concerned about it. I received an e-mail from him confirming a telephone call he had with Mr. Tommy Gallagher about his concerns with the lack of enforcement of the regulations following the death of his daughter, Aisling. The death of another girl in Donegal was also due to loose chippings, purely because these statutory regulations are not being enforced.
The Deputy should confine himself to a question. He is leaving no time for the Minister to reply.
Does the Minister agree with the Tánaiste — I do not always agree with the Tánaiste — that local authorities are a collection of elected councillors under the diktat of a county manager who is responsible to nobody? Does the Minister agree this has led to the current situation with the regulations on planning and road safety? County managers are not answerable to anybody and the Minister does not appear to have power over them.
We have run out of time already and the Minister is entitled to make a reply.
My question to the Minister is whether he will ensure the guidelines on planning and road safety are properly enforced.
I thank the Deputy. I accept there is frustration on this matter. Having had a long friendship over 30 odd years with the county manager in Mayo, I would not recognise him necessarily as a dictator.
Would he think the Minister is one?
I will make a point to the Deputy which I have made to councillors and councillors' groups: councillors are in command. The only body which has a statutory capacity to fire a county manager is the county council, and that has not happened.
Why is it that in Donegal——
Sorry, Deputy——
It is the manager there who is taking that case against the wishes of the members. The members do not want that——
We must have order during Question Time. When the Minister is called to speak, he is entitled to speak without interruption.
We could argue about the issues of the local government managerial system for a long time but I reiterate councillors have significantly more powers than they realise sometimes. It is incumbent on everybody elected to a local council, especially since the end of the dual mandate, to inform themselves of their powers and to use them judiciously.
The interpretation and application of the guidelines, which is the central issue in the Deputy's question, is a matter for each local authority. However, the managers and directors of services have a duty to ensure consistency among planners. This has given rise to the frustration expressed by the Deputy. They have a duty to ensure consistency among planners, both in terms of the interpretation and application of the guidelines. Leadership and example is required at the highest level. That is where the manager's role comes into play. After all, the manager is the chief planning officer and it is he or she who must ensure consistency. If there is inconsistency, a lack of transparency or a feeling that the guidelines are not being properly enforced, the councillors can raise that issue in open council.
I am not convinced by the argument that councillors are particularly powerless. If that argument is put forward often enough, the public will ask why we have councils at all. We have them because they have specific powers. However, I share the Deputy's concern on this matter. The guidelines are intended to have, and do have, statutory application. They are not something that is being operated on a pick and mix basis. They should apply consistently and we will continue to monitor them.
Deputy Cowley referred to the tragic case he brought to my attention. I had the pleasure of speaking with the gentleman concerned on several occasions. He should be listened to, and I have made certain points about his comments. At every local authority level, these guidelines are applicable and they should be operated in a transparent, open and consistent way.
