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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 Jun 2007

Vol. 637 No. 3

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take No. 6, statements on the European Council; No. 2, Finance (No. 2) Bill 2007 — Order for Committee, Committee and Remaining Stages; and No. 3, Ministers and Secretaries (Ministers of State) Bill 2007 — Order for Second Stage, Second and Subsequent Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m., business shall be interrupted not later than 9.30 p.m. and the suspension of sitting pursuant to Standing Order 23(1) shall take place at 1.30 p.m., or on the conclusion of No. 6, whichever is the later, until 2.30 p.m.; the proceedings on No. 6 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: first, the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes, and shall be confined to the Taoiseach and to the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time, and which shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; and second, immediately following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes; Committee and Remaining Stages of No. 2 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 5.45 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in regard to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance; Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 3 shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: first, the proceedings on Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 9 p.m.; second, the speeches of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and Labour Party, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; third, the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case and Members may share time; fourth, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and fifth, the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 9.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in regard to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance. Private Members' business shall be No. 7, resumed motion on co-location hospital plans, to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

There are four proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 6, statements on the European Council, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 2, Finance (No. 2) Bill 2007 — Committee and Remaining Stages, agreed?

It is not agreed. Only 45 minutes are allowed for this important legislation. Yesterday I made the point that the Government should not introduce guillotine motions in dealing with important matters or a Bill. This is an issue on which a number of Members wish to speak and it is one of significant economic importance to many parts of the country. I object to the proposal on that basis.

Regardless of the reasons for guillotine motions in the dying days of the last Government, which I do not think were strong even then in terms of the scrutiny of legislation, it is wrong in the first week of the life of this Government that we should be presented with two guillotine motions, as is the case today. I oppose the proposal.

I also object to the proposal to guillotine the debate on Committee, Report and Final Stages of the Finance (No. 2) Bill. The import of what is involved requires greater scrutiny and opportunities for Deputies to participate but the proposal simply will not accommodate the range of opinion represented in the House. The Minister for Finance, in his contribution yesterday, clearly indicated that he had capitulated to the position adopted by other parties prior to the general election. This matter needs to be properly addressed. The proposal will not resolve the issue for those who need to secure a home for their own purposes.

This is a two section Bill. We have made an important commitment which we want to honour as quickly as possible. The issue has been well debated in recent months.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 2 be agreed to."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 76; Níl, 70.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Ahern, Noel.
  • Andrews, Barry.
  • Ardagh, Seán.
  • Aylward, Bobby.
  • Behan, Joe.
  • Blaney, Niall.
  • Brady, Áine.
  • Brady, Cyprian.
  • Brady, Johnny.
  • Brennan, Séamus.
  • Browne, John.
  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Calleary, Dara.
  • Carey, Pat.
  • Collins, Niall.
  • Conlon, Margaret.
  • Connick, Seán.
  • Coughlan, Mary.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Cregan, John.
  • Cuffe, Ciarán.
  • Cullen, Martin.
  • Curran, John.
  • Dempsey, Noel.
  • Devins, Jimmy.
  • Dooley, Timmy.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Fitzpatrick, Michael.
  • Gogarty, Paul.
  • Grealish, Noel.
  • Hanafin, Mary.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Haughey, Seán.
  • Healy-Rae, Jackie.
  • Kelleher, Billy.
  • Kelly, Peter.
  • Kenneally, Brendan.
  • Kennedy, Michael.
  • Killeen, Tony.
  • Kirk, Seamus.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Lowry, Michael.
  • Mansergh, Martin.
  • Martin, Micheál.
  • McDaid, James.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • McGrath, Mattie.
  • McGrath, Michael.
  • McGuinness, John.
  • Moloney, John.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Mulcahy, Michael.
  • Nolan, M. J.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
  • O’Brien, Darragh.
  • O’Connor, Charlie.
  • O’Dea, Willie.
  • O’Flynn, Noel.
  • O’Hanlon, Rory.
  • O’Keeffe, Batt.
  • O’Rourke, Mary.
  • O’Sullivan, Christy.
  • Power, Peter.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Roche, Dick.
  • Ryan, Eamon.
  • Scanlon, Eamon.
  • Treacy, Noel.
  • Wallace, Mary.
  • White, Mary Alexandra.
  • Woods, Michael.

Níl

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Bannon, James.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Breen, Pat.
  • Broughan, Thomas P.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burke, Ulick.
  • Burton, Joan.
  • Byrne, Catherine.
  • Carey, Joe.
  • Clune, Deirdre.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Coonan, Noel J.
  • Costello, Joe.
  • Coveney, Simon.
  • Crawford, Seymour.
  • Creed, Michael.
  • Creighton, Lucinda.
  • D’Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, John.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • Doyle, Andrew.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • English, Damien.
  • Enright, Olwyn.
  • Feighan, Frank.
  • Flanagan, Charles.
  • Flanagan, Terence.
  • Gregory, Tony.
  • Hayes, Brian.
  • Hayes, Tom.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hogan, Phil.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Kehoe, Paul.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Lynch, Ciarán.
  • Lynch, Kathleen.
  • McCormack, Pádraic.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McHugh, Joe.
  • McManus, Liz.
  • Mitchell, Olivia.
  • Morgan, Arthur.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Neville, Dan.
  • Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
  • Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
  • O’Donnell, Kieran.
  • O’Dowd, Fergus.
  • O’Keeffe, Jim.
  • O’Mahony, John.
  • O’Shea, Brian.
  • O’Sullivan, Jan.
  • Perry, John.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Reilly, James.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • Sheehan, P. J.
  • Sherlock, Seán.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Stanton, David.
  • Timmins, Billy.
  • Tuffy, Joanna.
  • Upton, Mary.
  • Varadkar, Leo.
  • Wall, Jack.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Tom Kitt and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.
Question declared carried.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 3, Ministers and Secretaries (Ministers of State) Bill 2007 — Order for Second Stage, Second and Subsequent Stages, agreed?

We made the point that there should be no guillotining of business. This is the first week of the new Dáil and this is the fourth guillotine motion. I realise this is a procedural matter. However, I make the point strongly that the Government Whip should not bring forward guillotine motions and object on that basis.

I oppose this proposal. The Cabinet Handbook makes plain that "Any Bill introduced or presented by or on behalf of a member of the Government, other than a Bill dealing with Budgetary or Estimates matters, should be accompanied by an Explanatory and Financial Memorandum to explain in simple, non-technical language, the provisions of the Bill, setting out the existing law and the changes therein proposed by the Bill and providing information about the estimated Exchequer costs and staffing implications for Departments...". This is a mandatory requirement in the case of Government Bills, according to the Cabinet Handbook. It is mandatory to have an accompanying explanatory memorandum detailing the costs and staffing implications. That has not been done in respect of this Bill. For that reason, I oppose the proposal.

Is the proposal agreed?

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 3 be agreed to."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 61; Níl, 59.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Ahern, Noel.
  • Andrews, Barry.
  • Ardagh, Seán.
  • Aylward, Bobby.
  • Behan, Joe.
  • Brady, Cyprian.
  • Brady, Johnny.
  • Brennan, Séamus.
  • Browne, John.
  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Calleary, Dara.
  • Carey, Pat.
  • Collins, Niall.
  • Conlon, Margaret.
  • Connick, Seán.
  • Coughlan, Mary.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Cregan, John.
  • Cuffe, Ciarán.
  • Cullen, Martin.
  • Curran, John.
  • Dempsey, Noel.
  • Devins, Jimmy.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Fitzpatrick, Michael.
  • Gogarty, Paul.
  • Grealish, Noel.
  • Hanafin, Mary.
  • Haughey, Seán.
  • Kelleher, Billy.
  • Kelly, Peter.
  • Kennedy, Michael.
  • Killeen, Tony.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • Mansergh, Martin.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • McGrath, Mattie.
  • McGrath, Michael.
  • McGuinness, John.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Mulcahy, Michael.
  • Nolan, M. J.
  • Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
  • O’Brien, Darragh.
  • O’Connor, Charlie.
  • O’Dea, Willie.
  • O’Flynn, Noel.
  • O’Hanlon, Rory.
  • O’Keeffe, Batt.
  • Power, Peter.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Roche, Dick.
  • Ryan, Eamon.
  • Scanlon, Eamon.
  • Treacy, Noel.
  • Wallace, Mary.
  • White, Mary Alexandra.
  • Woods, Michael.

Níl

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Bannon, James.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Breen, Pat.
  • Broughan, Thomas P.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burton, Joan.
  • Byrne, Catherine.
  • Carey, Joe.
  • Clune, Deirdre.
  • Coonan, Noel J.
  • Costello, Joe.
  • Creed, Michael.
  • Creighton, Lucinda.
  • D’Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, John.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • Enright, Olwyn.
  • Feighan, Frank.
  • Flanagan, Charles.
  • Flanagan, Terence.
  • Hayes, Brian.
  • Hayes, Tom.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hogan, Phil.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Kehoe, Paul.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Lynch, Ciarán.
  • Lynch, Kathleen.
  • McCormack, Pádraic.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McHugh, Joe.
  • McManus, Liz.
  • Mitchell, Olivia.
  • Morgan, Arthur.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
  • O’Donnell, Kieran.
  • O’Dowd, Fergus.
  • O’Keeffe, Jim.
  • O’Mahony, John.
  • O’Shea, Brian.
  • O’Sullivan, Jan.
  • Perry, John.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Reilly, James.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • Sheehan, P. J.
  • Sherlock, Seán.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Stanton, David.
  • Tuffy, Joanna.
  • Upton, Mary.
  • Varadkar, Leo.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Tom Kitt and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.
Question declared carried.

Sixty one to fifty nine. That is a bit of a shock. One never knows.

The Taoiseach should renegotiate those deals.

He will want to get some assurances.

Does the Government intend to bring forward a revised programme for Dáil reform? A number of matters need to be attended to in order to make this House more relevant. These include making the proceedings of the Dáil, Seanad and Oireachtas committees available to the public, which is now technically feasible at no cost. During the course of the last Dáil, the Chief Whip brought forward some proposals but they were not implemented. At the start of his third term, does the Taoiseach intend to introduce a programme of Dáil reform that is relevant?

I genuinely think there are a number of things we could do in this respect, but it is a two-way process.

I will gladly try to do them, provided we do not get into a position where the Government is asked to do 20 things that suit the Opposition, while the Government achieves nothing. If we have a genuine approach, however, we could do a number of things that would be very good for the workings of the House. I would like to do them so we should have a cut at it.

In that spirit, I ask the Taoiseach to convey his priorities to the party leaders — me, Deputy Ó Caoláin and Deputy Rabbitte — and Deputy Gregory so that we can consider them.

I will do that.

Has the Taoiseach studied the report of the Standards in Public Office Commission? In untypically trenchant terms, it has criticised the funding of political parties and argued that it is necessary to refurbish the law in this regard. Does the Government intend to act upon the report?

While I have seen some of the issues surrounding the report, I have not studied it. We will have to consider the report.

Is the Taoiseach aware that while many communities in the greater Dublin area are crying out for improved bus services, 60 brand new buses are lying idle in garages? This is because the Department of Transport will not sanction new routes.

That question is not in order.

Will the Taoiseach provide a date for the introduction of new bus licensing legislation, which has been promised for some time? In the meantime, will the Taoiseach contact his Minister for Transport to ensure that the necessary approval for employing the new buses is granted without delay?

The amendment to the 1932 Act is in the programme for Government. The Minister informs me the reason the buses are not fully operational is that bus drivers are being recruited. Those interviews are ongoing.

That is not entirely true.

That is not true. They are awaiting approval from the Department. The Minister should get the finger out and grant the necessary approval. People are fed up waiting for buses.

In the absence of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, will the Taoiseach indicate the intended schedule for publishing the broadcasting Bill and the minerals development Bill, given the emphasis placed on the need for energy and resources at competitive prices, as evidenced in the recent IDA Ireland report?

The broadcasting Bill is due later this year. The text of the Bill was approved by the last Government, although I do not know if there are amendments to that legalisation. The minerals development Bill is also listed for later this year.

Have the heads of the Bill been approved?

The heads have been approved.

I wish to ask the Taoiseach about the student support Bill, which concerns changing the administration of third level grants. Its publication has been promised several times, most recently in the last session. Students going back to college in September will face long delays again in an administrative system that is not working. Will the Bill be published before the end of this term?

The text of the Bill has been submitted to Government but a legal issue has arisen and I understand it may be some time before it is published. I do not have the details relating to the legal issue. I understand that the full Bill is ready but is being delayed by this issue.

I am concerned that a legal issue should arise now because this Bill has been promised for years. I cannot understand why a legal issue was not spotted before this late stage.

If the Deputy tables a parliamentary question to the Minister, the facts in this matter will be explained.

Before and during the recent election all party leaders received letters from thousands of people around the country seeking the urgent introduction of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill to allow them to purchase their homes, in some of which their families have lived for two or three generations. When will we see this Bill before the House?

It is listed for this year.

When will legislation relating to the break-up of the ESB be introduced? Last week the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources indicated that he felt such legislation was not necessary but that his predecessor had decided on the matter. Has this legislation been passed by the Cabinet sub-committee of which the Taoiseach and the Minister beside him are members and which is minding Deputies Gormley and Ryan?

The electricity (transfer of transmission assets) Bill is listed for next year.

I note that, in fairness to Fianna Fáil Members of the House, three Ministers are here in addition to the Taoiseach. However, there are no Green Party Deputies here, including the two Green Party members of the Cabinet, and there are no Progressive Democrats Deputies in the House.

There is nothing green about the lads over there.

This is the Order of Business and members of the Government should be available to answer Deputies' questions on legislation. If they are watching they might recall their words from behind me in the last Dáil when they castigated people for not being present. They should be here, it is their duty to be here and I hope, in future, they will be here.

All of Deputy Kenny's people are at their phones waiting for the formation of the front bench.

Regarding proposals to amend legislation relating to tribunals, members of the Green Party are quoted in today's newspapers as saying the party has amendments to the legislation published by the previous Government and reinstated on the Order Paper yesterday. Have amendments tabled by the Green Party to the Tribunals of Inquiry Bill been agreed? The programme for Government mentions changes in the legislation.

Amendments will be discussed by the Government in the normal way when we debate the Bill.

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