It is proposed to take No. 4, Markets in Financial Instruments and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2007 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; No. 1, Control of Exports Bill 2007 [Seanad] — Second Stage. Private Members’ business shall be No. 16, motion re health services.
Order of Business.
According to the Taoiseach's proposals regarding the Order of Business, there are no proposals to be put to the House today. I call Deputy Kenny.
Three months or 12 weeks have passed since the House met before the recess and I have become concerned regarding the structure the Taoiseach has in mind for the committee system in the House. While a meeting was held today with the Government Whip, no information was forthcoming as to the number or nature of committees to be established. Members are dealing with legislation without having committees to which Bills may be referred. Progress must be made in this regard and should have been achieved before this.
Does the Taoiseach accept the committees of the Houses are not instruments of Government? They are instruments of the Dáil to deal with its business and, as such, does he accept they should reflect the proportionality of the parties as represented in the House? The Government has an in-built majority on all such committees, which are instruments of the Dáil and not of the Government. The Taoiseach should comment in this regard.
The Deputy has raised a number of points. The Government is anxious to set up the committees and to get them going. Not many changes have been proposed. I understand that two or three changes have been suggested, on which I hope agreement can be reached, and the Government Whip was endeavouring to do so today. Most of the other committees will remain intact.
The representation of parties in the Dáil will be reflected in the committees. While this happens automatically, it has always been the practice that the committees of the House are chaired by the Government side, with the exception of those that are considered to be what were termed many decades ago as being watchdog committees, such as the Committee of Public Accounts. Similarly, the committee on European Affairs was established to oversee the enormous volume of directives and data that have been coming through from Europe. Arguments have also been made regarding some other committees. However, for the Government to get through its business and move legislation and issues through, while representation will reflect the membership of the House, it is important that such committees should be chaired by supporters of the Government.
I will make an observation in this regard. There are no cases in which legislation was held up by chairmen who were non-governmental Members. The Government will have majorities on every committee because of the manner in which this is structured. I sent to the Taoiseach's office a document outlining the basis of what takes place in the Northern Ireland Assembly. I refer to the d'Hondt mechanism that applies in many countries in Europe. It would provide proportional representation to the parties in the House and would not preclude work from being done. The purpose of such committees, which are instruments of the Dáil rather than of the Government, is to deal with legislation that comes before them. While the Taoiseach might claim that Members of Government parties should chair the vast majority of such committees, that is no reason to assert that legislation would be held up because that would not be the case given that the Government would command a majority on every committee.
As Deputy Kenny knows, chairmen of committees are vital in trying to progress the agenda. While the representation of the House will be reflected in the committees, perhaps we can agree on what committees will be established. The Government has already stated it is prepared to extend some positions to Opposition Members. Were such matters wrapped up, it would be ready to move with the agreement of the Whips.
I will finish on this point. In a way, all the committees are watchdog committees.
No, they are not.
They are. It depends on the definition one puts on the word, "watchdog".
Deputy Kenny should have thought of this before changing his Front Bench. That is his problem.
One would not wish to expand the number of committees merely to keep happy those on the Government benches with the news that another position of chairman has been procured.
I understand the Deputy's problems.
The Government also has a few problems on its benches.
Ministers need someone on their tails.
I wish to put down a marker that Fine Gael will become extremely obstinate on this issue. This work could have been done before now. Although I have not yet received details from the Taoiseach, I believe strongly that this should be reflected in the representation the people sent to the House. This principle is fundamental.
I agree with Deputy Kenny on this issue and express concern regarding the delay in the formation of the committees of the House. Such committees do not deal merely with legislation, they also deal with important matters such as consideration of the Estimates. Does the Taoiseach intend to schedule debates on Estimates in the House pending the establishment of the committees, which, in due course will consider the relevant Estimates themselves?
In respect of legislation, I note the Tribunals of Inquiry Bill 2005 is back on the Order Paper. The Taoiseach may recall this Bill was introduced to enable the Government to wind up tribunals of inquiry. My recollection is that the Green Party in particular expressed much concern regarding that Bill on its publication. Does restoration to the Order Paper of that Bill have the support of the entire Government? What are the Taoiseach's plans regarding its introduction to the House?
The Bill in question was published at the end of 2005 and an Order for Second Stage is to be made. Thereafter the debate will take place.
On committees, the Government recommends only some minor changes. I refer to a committee on Northern Ireland to which the Government has been committed for some years. In addition, it has proposed a committee in which it is intended to deal with children's issues and related issues. Obviously, using the d'Hondt system would change the entire position. In the last Dáil, the Opposition held three chairs, including the Committee of Public Accounts, and it also held some of the vice-chair positions. Perhaps we could make progress on the basis of something near that. The Whip has made a suggestion that we can continue with the full range of committees.
Will the Taoiseach comment on the decision by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, to use the National Monuments Acts to conserve Rathlugh? Will this have any impact on the construction of the M3 motorway?
When is it planned to introduce the social housing, miscellaneous provisions, Bill to deal with issues relating to anti-social behaviour and estate management, as promised?
The heads of the national monuments Bill have been approved. The Minister now has plans for a review of archaeological practice and policy, which will begin in the autumn. The heads of the social housing, miscellaneous provisions, Bill, have been approved by the Government and the legislation is expected early in the new year.
In the absence of committees, on a matter we addressed earlier this afternoon, will the Government facilitate an opportunity to address in this House the content of the recent report prepared by the Comptroller and Auditor General? In the absence of committees there is no provision for addressing the serious matters that he highlights. I asked this of the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, last Thursday and he indicated he had no issue with the matter being facilitated if the whips would agree. Also, will the Taoiseach indicate to the Chief Whip that the matter is something to which the whips could agree in the course of their deliberations tomorrow?
Second, given the impending crisis in the pharmacy sector, which is relevant to the Order of Business, there are serious concerns about the contentious new payment system being introduced by the HSE. Will the Government bring forward the Pharmacy (No. 2) Bill in order that these serious matters can be addressed in this House?
As I stated earlier on Question Time, the Committee of Public Accounts had raised a number of issues and the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance has replied to those issues. I am sure they can be taken up within the Committee of Public Accounts when it is up and running again.
Preparation has commenced on developing a framework for the Pharmacy (No. 2) Bill on clarification of policy objectives following the enactment of the Pharmacy Act 2007, but it has nothing to do with the contracts.
As the recruitment embargo in the health services is beginning to bite and affect front-line services, has the Government any plans to take action as front-line services and patient care are being affected? Are they monitoring what is happening to the health services and is there any point at which a Supplementary Estimate might be considered?
That is not relevant on the Order of Business.
A Supplementary Estimate would be relevant. Is there any point at which a Supplementary Estimate might be considered, as this enters a second month and will possibly continue right to the end of the year? Will this Government do anything about it?
That is not relevant to the Order of Business. I call Deputy Michael D. Higgins.
A Supplementary Estimate is relevant.
A Supplementary Estimate would be relevant to the Order of Business.
There is no Supplementary Estimate promised, to my knowledge.
What about the Taoiseach's knowledge?
Maybe the Taoiseach might like to answer.
I call Deputy Michael D. Higgins.
They could promise one now.
The Taoiseach has no answer.
I call Deputy Michael D. Higgins.
As this is the only opportunity at which I can do this properly, I ask whether Government time will be made available to discuss the general issue of the role of committees. I raise this in a non-partisan way. The issue that has been raised with the Taoiseach so far is not merely who will be the chair or vice-chair, or even the number of committees. There is a significant difference between the select committees and committees which have a different and wider role, for example, the Committee on Foreign Affairs of which I have been a member for a long time — since 1993 — and which I sought to establish in 1987. These committees have not had their functions defined and we need time in the House to discuss that. For example, is the committee I mentioned, the Committee on Foreign Affairs, to be responsible to this House and autonomous from the Department of Foreign Affairs, and what is the difference between the committee when it discusses issues such as the Iraq war, the Estimates, or legislation, the amount of which is small? We have never had time in the House to discuss the fundamental role of committees. Are they to be scrutiny committees, committees for the processing of legislation, committees in the European model for the introduction of legislation, or for seriously amending legislation, etc.?
As someone who is here for more than 20 years, it is not a matter of who will fill the posts and it is not really a matter for the whips. We need time in the Parliament to discuss what are the most appropriate terms of reference for the committees. This is an urgent matter because after the committees are established by order, which will be introduced by the Government Whip, it will be too late to change the terms of reference and the committee chairpersons sitting as the representatives of the Government.
It is a serious issue that the chairs of committees are the property of the Executive. It is a very serious issue in the comparative politics in the European Union of which we are members. Therefore, I am making a proper request for Government time to discuss the role of the different forms of committee in the House, with consideration and balancing of their terms of reference, the degree of their autonomy and their responsibility to Parliament and to the Executive. After that, we can get on to the much lesser stuff of who will fill the positions.
If Members want to express their views on the terms of reference of committees, I do not have any difficulty with that but I will not change my mind on a view that has been held here for years.
With respect, I cannot read the Taoiseach's mind. That is for others in his party to do. As a Member of Parliament who has sat on committees and who regularly attends committees, I make the case. I also should confess an interest in that it is a matter upon which I, as an academic, have written.
It is really absurd to be using the committees the way we are. One of the committees on which I served for more than a decade and a half has been governed more by the availability of a room than by the importance of the issue. The committees are governed by the availability of a room and the availability of staff, minutes published six or seven months later etc. I am simply saying it does not matter. Because we got away with it before in a bad way is no excuse for saying that now, at the beginning of a new session, we must do it in the same old, deadly bad way.
Deputy Higgins will know that I cannot go searching for rooms now. How the committees will be set up and constituted is a matter for the whips. It is not really a matter for the Order of Business.
I do not want the Ceann Comhairle to sink with it.
In light of the fact that student union leaders are raising the issue of the abuse of alcohol, would the Taoiseach reconsider reintroducing legislation on the advertising of alcohol, which was on the Order Paper many years ago and which he stated was put to one side because of a local agreement with the vintners and the trade generally? Would he reconsider introducing that Bill and ensuring some control of advertising in the context of the abuse of alcohol?
That matter is being reviewed in the Department of Health and Children, which will make its statement on this. We promised that we would do so and that review is now being undertaken.
First, as a Deputy who has been around here a long time and on committees a long time, I am tempted to say how much I agree with Deputy Michael D. Higgins. There will be at least 50 backbenchers in Fianna Fáil who will expect to survive by virtue of their work on the committees. We need to make the committees meaningful. Whatever about issues on which the Taoiseach has his mind made up, they must be made meaningful, as Deputy Higgins requests.
Recently there was a run on the Northern Rock bank and the British authorities stepped in to provide deposit protection and indicated they will provide deposit protection up to seven and a half times that which is enjoyed in Ireland by depositors. We need to move rapidly so we do not leave Irish savers exposed and so we do not see Irish savers considering moving to a different jurisdiction to get protection. Can the Taoiseach indicate that there is consideration of a new deposit protection scheme for Irish savers so we match what is available?
That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
It is. It is legislation which the dogs in the street indicate Ireland needs to address and we need to see some indication from Government.
That is not promised. There is no promised legislation and therefore it is a matter for a parliamentary question.
Are you sure there is not promised legislation?
There is not.
Nearly 18 months ago Government legislation was promised to deal with the issue of human trafficking. I have asked the Taoiseach a number of times about this issue and it is on the Order Paper for this term. Can the Taoiseach indicate when this legislation will be debated in the House on Second Stage and if we will have a committee to deal with it by the time it goes to Committee Stage?
When will promised legislation on the requirement for State financing and building of an electricity east-west interconnector between Ireland and Britain be published, and will it be prioritised?
The heads of the Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill are completed and I understand the legislation is almost ready. We should have it this session.
We will move on to the Markets in Financial Instruments and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2007 — Order for Second Stage——
I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, but I asked about a second item of legislation.
It will come forward in 2008.