Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 5 Feb 2008

Vol. 646 No. 1

Adjournment Debate.

Community Pharmacy Services.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Every Member of this House has had representations on this issue since we returned in October. It is time that the dispute between the HSE and the IPU is resolved once and for all. We were given assurances before Christmas that an independent process would be initiated to properly adjudicate the varying claims made by both sides. Everybody agrees reform is needed to the general medical scheme and the drug payment system and that prices should be reduced, but the manner in which the issue is being approached is akin to hammering the community pharmacy sector.

Two specific issues arise, the pharmacy discount scheme and the contract which affects the fee per item. The current proposal from the HSE, known as the interim contract, provides that pharmacists will be paid 8.2% less for medicines supplied by community drugs schemes, including the medical card scheme and the drug payment scheme. That any organisation would make such a crazy suggestion reveals a lack of willingness to engage in meaningful discussions. Any discount or rebate scheme received by pharmacists is used to subsidise the current community drugs schemes. The proposal that the discount scheme be attacked means pharmacies will be required to operate schemes on behalf of the Government at a loss. No sector can be expected to manage such a scenario, regardless of how successful it is perceived to be.

Each pharmacy has different discount arrangements with its wholesaler depending on its level of business. The discount identified by the HSE is not necessarily the amount given to most pharmacies. A small rural pharmacy, for example, would have a smaller discount than one in a large town. The proposal for using one discount rate for the entire operation is a false one and it is leading to serious concerns about the future viability of community-based and rural pharmacies. In recent weeks, I have met pharmacists in my county to examine their audited accounts, which they willingly presented. The current interim contract proposal, which proposes a minimum fee of €5 per transaction, could result in the loss of three jobs in every rural pharmacy in the county. The pharmacists are willing to make their figures available for inspection. Nationally, approximately 3,500 jobs could go in the pharmacy sector, with an annual wage loss of €15 million.

The town from which I come, Ballina, has a proud history of wholesaling. United Drug was established in the town 60 years ago by local GPs who wanted a different way of supplying drugs. The company is now one of the biggest drugs wholesalers in Ireland and Britain and employs 120 people. It is important to note that United Drug does not own any individual pharmacies. Its ethos is to support local pharmacies. I am concerned that the HSE's current attitude will have an impact on the company's 120 employees who provide annual wages to our town of €3.5 million.

Since I was elected last June, the one issue that regularly arises in this Chamber is that the HSE is not working. However, the one part that works very well is the local pharmacy. As I travelled here today, I listened to an advertising campaign by the HSE encouraging people to attend their local pharmacies or GPs before presenting to accident and emergency units, yet, at the same time, the executive proposes to undermine the sector. On 11 January, the HSE issued a letter to Oireachtas Members indicating its intention to enter into discussions with the IPU and other parties. However, before doing so, it is proposing to undermine the sector by forcing people into this interim contract. I am aware that all sides of the House are anxious for a resolution. The Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party held a vigorous meeting on the issue earlier this evening and asked the Minister for Health and Children to meet us. The Joint Committee on Health and Children will also discuss the issue next week. Given the 1 March deadline for acceptance of the interim contract, it is important this House is seen to act.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy Máire Hoctor)

I will respond to this Adjournment matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney.

Following the completion of new IPHA and APMI agreements with drugs manufacturers in 2006, the HSE announced new arrangements for the wholesale margins on 17 September 2007 which affect the price basis for the supply of drugs and medicines to the State. This is distinct from the dispensing fees paid to community pharmacists under the GMS and the drugs payments scheme. The new pricing arrangements for community supply were planned to take effect from 1 January 2008 for wholesalers and due to the structure of the reimbursement system would have come into effect from 1 December 2007 for community pharmacists.

The Minister has previously outlined in detail to the House the legal issues arising under competition law in regard to the collective negotiation of fees, prices or margins by undertakings or associations of undertakings. A process of dialogue was established under Mr. Bill Shipsey, SC, to address concerns expressed by the IPU about the implications of legal advice on competition law on the right of the IPU to negotiate fees or margins with the HSE on behalf of community pharmacists. In view of the engagement under Mr. Shipsey at the time, the HSE decided to defer the implementation of the new reimbursement rates which were planned to take effect for community pharmacists on 1 December 2007. The HSE continues to keep community pharmacists informed of its intentions regarding implementation of the new arrangements, which is now planned for 1 March 2008.

In consultation with the Attorney General, other relevant Departments and the HSE, the Minister has been exploring the best way of progressing the development of a new contract with pharmacists. To this end, a process was proposed to the IPU at a meeting on 5 December 2007 by the HSE under Mr. Shipsey's aegis to address pharmacists' immediate concerns regarding the alleged impact of the proposed revised wholesaler arrangements on GMS dependent pharmacies and provide a basis upon which discussions on a new substantive contract could commence. The IPU was not prepared to accept this proposal from the HSE and, accordingly, no further discussions have taken place under Mr. Shipsey.

Notwithstanding the failure to reach agreement, the HSE has offered a draft interim contract to pharmacists to address their main concerns regarding the alleged impact of the proposed revised wholesaler arrangements on the GMS dependent pharmacies. The details of the draft interim contract, and the HSE's other intentions in this regard, were set out in a letter to individual community pharmacists on 2 January 2008. The HSE intends to implement the deferred revised wholesaler arrangements from 1 March 2008. The executive also recently held preliminary discussions with the IPU on the development of a new substantive pharmacy contract.

The Minister has asked me to assure the House that the Department is working to develop appropriate arrangements for the negotiation of contracts and setting out the fees payable in respect of contracts with private sector undertakings for the provision of health services on behalf on the HSE. These arrangements may include the establishment of an independent body which would consider the nature of the services to be provided and all other relevant factors in each case and make recommendations in regard to the fees it considers appropriate. The composition of such a body, its terms of reference and the timescale for its work are among the matters to be considered. In line with the legal advice received, the HSE may enter into discussions with community pharmacists on the non-fee aspects of their contract with a view to developing a new substantive pharmacy contract.

The Minister wishes to find a way of adapting the traditional process to arrive at revised pricing arrangements for pharmacy contract, consistent with the legal advice she has received.

Garda Equipment.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

I am grateful of the opportunity to raise this matter in the hope of advancing a long outstanding matter to conclusion by the end of this year. The lives of emergency services personnel are being put at risk because of the failure on the part of the Government to advance and progress the provision of a national digital radio service.

I wish, in particular, to refer to the position as it relates to the Garda Síochána. It is more than ten years since the Garda first requested a new radio communications network because its members could not communicate safely via the old network, which was then already 20 years old. On 4 February 1999, the then Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, and current Ceann Comhairle, Deputy O'Donoghue, in reply to parliamentary questions tabled for written answer stated:

The new Garda radio network will be introduced on a phased basis over the period 2000 to 2003, at an estimated cost of £75 million to £85 million. To facilitate this ambitious replacement programme, a pilot trial of the new TETRA technology will commence this year, and the lessons learned will be usefully applied in the national replacement programme.

In 2005, his successor, former Deputy Michael McDowell, was asked when the long-promised digital radio system would arrive following a Deputy's description of how one of his constituents was burned out of his house when drug dealers listening in on the Garda analogue network heard his address being given as the source of a complaint about their suspicious activity. Very little action was taken in the aftermath of these events and further pilot projects were promised.

On 26 March 2007, Mr. McDowell, who was then Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, announced:

Tetra Ireland Ltd have been selected as the preferred bidder for the provision of the National Digital Radio Service and are currently working with An Garda Síochána and other Departments and Agencies on the rollout of the service which will be delivered in two phases:

A service performance evaluation in an area covering parts of Dublin including the Port and Airport and north into Co. Meath.

Nationwide rollout.

The emergency services have been seeking the provision of a digital radio system for many years. The old analogue system is neither secure nor reliable. However, the Tetra system has still not been rolled out nationally despite the promises made by the two previous holders of the office of Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

The deficiencies of the existing analogue system are well known. Communications can be intercepted, with dangerous consequences for personnel. The radios do not always work, which has already endangered the lives of gardaí and other emergency services staff. No fewer than two pilot programmes have been rolled out in the same area of Dublin, and using the same technology, in 2001 and 2007. However, the Department of Finance has seemingly refused to progress a contract for the nationwide expansion and development of the system.

Failure to supply the Garda with up-to-date technology is tantamount to expecting it to take on sophisticated criminals with one hand tied behind its back. The absence of modern technology for the force has been highlighted by the Garda inspectorate, which expressed its concern in respect of the current situation. Regardless of whether it is cars, mobile telephones, e-mail or broadband, it is unacceptable that this matter has not been dealt with in an adequate fashion. It is also not acceptable that the project to provide a national digital radio system is to disintegrate into another billion euro over-budget fiasco at the hands of the Government, which is famous for its inability to deliver projects within budget and on time.

A spark of light appeared at the end of the tunnel during the speech on the Estimates by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Brian Lenihan, who stated that progress will be made and that he has made a sum of money available to resolve this matter. I would like the Minister opposite to indicate the exact amount of money available and what has been approved. There should be no more pilot schemes. When will the Garda be provided with the new national digital radio system?

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter.

The Government is committed to ensure that the Garda Commissioner has the necessary resources available to him in his fight against crime. In addition to increasing the strength of the force, this includes the resources to provide a range of support services. Chief among the latter is the provision of a new digital radio service for the force. Almost €100 million has been provided for Garda technology related projects this year alone and this includes significant financial provision for the new radio service.

Significant progress has been already made in the planning for the provision of the national digital radio service for An Garda Síochána. The Department of Finance has selected a preferred bidder — Tetra Ireland — for the service and is currently conducting detailed contract negotiations with the company. I am advised that these negotiations are nearing completion, enabling a framework agreement to be put in place in the coming weeks.

In tandem, detailed planning and preparatory work by the Garda Síochána is ongoing. This includes participation in a service performance evaluation, whereby a live working system covering a significant geographical area in the Dublin and surrounding areas was put in place by Tetra Ireland and was tested by the Garda and other emergency services to ensure the company was capable of delivering a fully working solution meeting all of the requirements of an emergency services network. National roll out by Tetra Ireland will commence immediately after the framework agreement is signed and is expected to be fully completed within a two-year timeframe.

The provision of the digital radio service will provide a number of advantages for An Garda Síochána. There will be increased security of digital radio services because digital radio transmissions are secured against eavesdropping and interception, which is a major concern with analogue radio systems. There also will be increased protection for Garda officers on operational duty. For example, digital radios come equipped with emergency "single push" buttons, which will transmit an emergency signal to the user group and to the dispatcher in the event of an emergency. An Garda Síochána will have the facility to dispatch assistance immediately to the relevant location.

Another advantage will be improved voice quality and increased radio coverage. The new digital radio service will offer An Garda Síochána a minimum of 96% hand-held radio coverage in any one square kilometre of the country, with most areas having more than 99% coverage. The new digital radio service will also provide An Garda Síochána with the ability to allow person-to-person or group communication between locations nationwide, as well as providing coverage for air support and off shore operations.

Communication with other emergency services will be improved so that, for emergencies and other operational reasons, a member of An Garda Síochána can be in direct communications with his or her counterparts in the other emergency services. Additional services such as communications with mobile and land line telephone systems and data services such as the transmission to officers in the field of photographs of wanted or missing persons will also be provided. The final advantage is that there will be interoperability with other police forces, such as with the digital radio system used by the Police Service of Northern Ireland, PSNI, as provided for under the intergovernmental agreement on North-South police co-operation.

The Government has consistently given its commitment that An Garda Síochána will receive every support to assist it in its fight against crime. The Garda budget across all areas for 2008 is more than €1.6 billion, which represents an 11% increase on the 2007 allocation. This will enable the early implementation of the national digital radio service, as well as a broad range of other technology projects being introduced by An Garda Síochána.

Electricity Interconnector.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I thank the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources for being present. It is not that often that Ministers appear in the Chamber to answer questions directly. He should not be too intimidated that four Members on this side have all raised the same matter.

The Minister will be aware that this has become a major political issue in three counties. The purpose of our raising it is to establish the Government's approach to it. We are getting conflicting messages from senior Ministers in respect of that approach. At an Oireachtas committee meeting last week, the Minister stated that he does not have a role in directing Eirgrid to do anything, that this matter falls within the company's remit and not his and that it is its responsibility to build a North-South interconnector. He also stated that Eirgrid would also be obliged to undergo the process relating to consultation and planning but that, outside of this, he does not have a role to play.

At the weekend, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, who happens to represent the constituencies concerned, called for the interconnector to be laid underground. He even suggested that he had obtained advice from the National Roads Authority, NRA, on the feasibility of the interconnector being laid underground adjacent to the route of the M3 motorway. A number of weeks ago, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, scoffed at the idea that this item of infrastructure could be laid underground. He dismissed the idea as being far too expensive and stated that it should not be even considered.

Will the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources outline the Government's direction to Eirgrid on this issue? The Fine Gael position is clear. For more than three months we have been stating that a debate should take place following the compilation of an independently commissioned and paid for study. We could at least begin the conversation with credible and independent facts detailing whether it is possible to put a 400 kV line as part of new grid infrastructure underground, overground or partially underground.

I hope the Minister will tonight announce that his Department will sponsor such a study so we can have an informed and educated debate on what is possible.

Deputy Seymour Crawford

I welcome the opportunity to speak to this important issue and I thank the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, not only for coming here but for listening to us at the meeting of the Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources last Tuesday.

Few issues apart from the Monaghan General Hospital matter have caused as much anger and annoyance as the proposed new power line to come across Meath, Cavan and Monaghan. It is vital we get an answer tonight on whether the Government or EirGrid will pay for a totally independent person or company to give us a true indication of whether it is possible to place this power line underground, and if it is, at what cost. The Tánaiste and Minister for Finance has already suggested it would cost at least ten times as much to place the line underground as it would overground. Others have used even wilder figures. It is interesting that the local Minister in County Meath, Deputy Noel Dempsey, has stated that the line must go underground and should be put along the M3 motorway. If ever there was a clear indication of the lack of Cabinet cohesion or joined-up thinking, that is surely it.

Why could this line not have gone either along the coast or through County Louth, where the land would be much more flat and less difficult to deal with? One must question where the responsibility lies. Does it lie with the Minister for Communications, Energy and National Resources, the board of EirGrid or both? One cannot forget the board of EirGrid was mostly appointed by the then Minister responsible for this area, Deputy Noel Dempsey.

People are clearly worried for many reasons, with health of major importance. There are so many so-called experts in this field that is difficult to know the facts. The land over which the line would go, and that adjacent to the line, would clearly be frozen and be beyond consideration for industrial and private premises. The property of some people will not even be eligible for compensation if EirGrid uses its significant financial backing to try to buy out individuals.

I beg the Minister either to agree to fund an independent study himself or ensure EirGrid does so immediately. This is clearly the first of many proposed lines by EirGrid throughout the island of Ireland and if we can get this one right, with a realistic and common sense approach, it will ease the way for all other projects to be moved forward. This is important for the sake of better power structures.

Deputy Damien English

I am glad the Minister is here as it demonstrates he is at least open to debate on this subject. I have some quick comments because we are very short on time.

I will not enter the health debate in this matter as we will have it another day. People have serious health concerns about this project nonetheless. Neither the Government, EirGrid nor anybody else can guarantee everybody will be safe with these lines. Conversely, nobody can say that lives are in danger, as neither side can provide proof. I cannot point to a child anywhere in the world who died because of magnetic fields, although there are reports that raise serious doubts. EirGrid cannot state that the power lines are safe either. We owe it to the people to check every possibility before we spend taxpayers' money putting this line over their heads.

A person speaking on radio recently implied that he advised the Italian Government years ago that it was okay for four or five children to die over a 20 or 30-year period. That person claimed to be speaking in regard to EirGrid and should be sacked on the spot for saying such things. It is not acceptable.

All we are asking is that the Minister should check the matter. It is possible, using modern technology, to go underground. Private companies have built such lines underground very cheaply in Estonia, South America and Australia. I accept that companies such as EirGrid across the world do not want to take the option of going underground. They do not want to even consider it, for whatever reason. These companies should be forced to consider the option so we can have a proper debate.

EirGrid's claim that it will cost ten times as much to put the line underground is an untruth. The company does not know what that would cost, so it cannot make such a claim. For EirGrid to stand in front of the people of Meath and argue it is not possible to go underground is also a lie. It is not good enough that a State company is telling mistruths when the issue involves people's health and their community.

EirGrid is an arm of Government, so this Government — including the Minister and his Department — has a duty to check out the issues, including new technology and proper costs. We should have a real discussion on the matter. I have spoken to representatives of companies who can put this line underground for nearly the same price. That is not five times or ten times the estimated cost. We should at least consider such options. If the project went to tender, companies would offer to put the line underground for a cheaper price than EirGrid's estimate for over the ground. The Minister should at least consider these options.

Deputy Shane McEntee

Like my fellow Deputies, I appreciate being given the chance to speak and it is good that the Minister is here. I have been in the Dáil for three years but I have not enjoyed anything as much as the meeting we had last week in committee.

We know plans for Ireland's energy over the next 20 years must be put in place and we cannot depend on oil any longer. That we are in a position to provide so much energy of our own, and even become an exporter of energy, is crucial to the programme set in front of us by the Minister. The last comment I made to the Minister at our meeting asked him to take control of this issue as a Minister outside the three counties who knows there are 20 other programmes of this type to go into place. Neither the Minister nor any other Deputy wants what we have in our counties.

EirGrid has not been straight with the people and it has tried to railroad us. Our local Minister spoke last week for votes and was not very genuine about the matter. It is only three months since he told the people in County Meath, when they first went to him, that this matter would never even be discussed in the Dáil or at Cabinet level. He was wrong and it was wrong of him just to go for votes last week when he spoke to the Sunday Business Post. It was a stupid action and the people of Meath definitely did not fall for it.

I will back the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to the hilt and he has the full backing of the Irish people for his programme. However, he should not try to put it through without giving us a proper price. Everyone knows it is not a case of €1.8 billion versus €180 million. ESB International carried out its own study on the matter and somebody should look at it. The people employed by ESB International are quite surprised at the new technology that will help to bring down the cost of this project.

Before the people descend on this city in their thousands, the Minister should give them what they are entitled to, a price on overground versus underground projects. He can then sit down with these people, and as I previously stated, he will be pleasantly surprised by the co-operation he receives. If the Minister does not do this, we will still be looking for oil at $150 a barrel ten years down the road.

Deputy Eamon Ryan

I thank the four Deputies for raising this issue, which is rightly the subject of extensive debate, both here and in the Oireachtas committee where the discussion has already started. It is part a broader discussion which is of vital national importance. This is the need to ensure our electricity transmission system is adequate to meet current and future electricity demand and how we can deliver on the critical infrastructure required to meet this need.

The Government's overriding policy objective is to ensure energy is consistently available at competitive prices with minimal risk of supply disruption in order to meet the needs of businesses and domestic customers. The availability of a reliable, secure and competitive electricity supply requires ongoing investment in transmission and distribution networks. The Government's White Paper on energy policy commits to the development of Ireland's electricity transmission and distribution network to meet current and future electricity demand.

There are currently approximately 6,000 km of high voltage electricity lines in Ireland, of which 439 km are 400 kV lines. Development of the electricity grid will require further investment in transmission and distribution lines. EirGrid plc is a State-owned company which has responsibility for operating the electricity transmission system in Ireland and the wholesale electricity trading system. It delivers connections, transmission and market services to generators, suppliers and customers using the high-voltage electricity system. EirGrid is also responsible for the development of a transmission system which comprises the high voltage lines.

As part of its ongoing grid development programme and in line with the Government's energy White Paper, EirGrid is currently planning the construction and reinforcement of the transmission system by means of constructing a number of transmission lines, including the North-South line, the Meath-Cavan line and the proposed East-West interconnector.

The new transmission lines are very important to the north-east region. They will bring critical infrastructure to the region, that is, the power lines will help ensure the delivery of high quality and highly reliable services. The new lines will also facilitate competition as part of the all-island electricity market, and will ultimately supply the needs of new householders and commercial customers who have connected in recent years.

The existing transmission lines in the region are expected to reach full capacity over the coming years. If they are not upgraded the electricity supply to the area will eventually fall below the specification required by many industrial and service companies when deciding on local investments. Specifically, the new lines will help ensure a future secure supply of electricity throughout the north east, facilitate cross-Border sharing of electricity, assist in promoting better competition and thereby reduce electricity costs, facilitate increased connection of renewable energy, upgrade existing electricity supplies and facilitate inward investment into the region.

The North-South 400 kV transmission line will more than double the current power transfer capacity between the North and the South. This new line will span approximately 80km and will extend from Cavan to Tyrone. It is being undertaken in co-operation with Northern Ireland Electricity. The line will be routed from a proposed new sub-station near Kingscourt in County Cavan, through County Monaghan and onwards to County Tyrone.

Linked to this North-South transmission line are plans for the upgrading of the existing transmission system in Meath and Cavan through the building of a new 400 kV transmission line between Woodland, County Meath, and Kingscourt, County Cavan. This line will be a further 58 km long and will reinforce the power system in the north east, facilitating competition and securing supplies of power for all customers.

As the Deputies are aware, EirGrid has proposed three possible route corridors for both projects and published these three routes in October 2007 as part of its public consultation process. EirGrid's aim is to select a final route in early 2008, following the consultation process, and then to submit a final proposal to An Bord Pleanála.

Last month, I secured the agreement of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to hold a series of meetings on transmission line infrastructure generally, with a view to providing an appropriate and constructive forum in which public representatives could debate issues around transmission line infrastructure and address concerns about specific projects. I am glad to see members of the committee here tonight to discuss the matter further and hope they have active and positive engagement with EirGrid when the committee meets tomorrow morning. The first meeting of the committee was held on 29 January, at which the Department's chief technical adviser provided an overview of the recent all-island grid study and options for the development of Ireland's electricity grid over the medium to long term. EirGrid will address the committee on the specific Cavan-Tyrone and Meath-Cavan proposals tomorrow.

In response to public concerns and the convening of the Oireachtas committee meetings on the issue, EirGrid will tomorrow publish a briefing document on the relative costs and technical issues surrounding overhead versus underground options for transmission lines. I hope this will facilitate tomorrow's discussion further. EirGrid is also preparing a detailed consultants' report on the issue for the purposes of its application to An Bord Pleanála for planning permission for both projects.

In any consideration of the underground versus overground issue, it needs to be borne in mind that we are not just talking about the proposed new lines from Cavan to Tyrone and from Meath to Cavan, but a whole programme of investment in new lines and upgrading of existing transmission lines. That is why I asked the joint committee to address the issue in the context of transmission infrastructure generally.

The building of these transmission lines is an operational matter for EirGrid, which has the statutory function to plan the high-voltage transmission network. The construction of transmission lines is also subject to the rigours of the planning process. I have no direct role in relation to routes and planning of lines.

As EirGrid plans to publish tomorrow a briefing document on the relative costs and technical issues regarding overhead versus underground options for transmission lines, it may be more appropriate to wait until tomorrow to discuss the merits or otherwise of each option. I have, however, been previously advised by EirGrid that there are many reasons why they opted for overhead lines in these two projects. EirGrid informs me that 97% of Europe's high voltage transmission network is carried by overhead lines and that underground is generally only used for short distances. Sub-sea cables have different operating characteristics and are not necessarily appropriate to land-based transmission systems. The reasons put forward by EirGrid for preferring overhead lines include technical feasibility and ongoing technical requirements for operation of transmission lines, the requirement in any underground AC transmission system to return above ground on average approximately every 20-40 km for system re-balancing, involving the construction of overground substations, the length of time required to identify and repair faults, and the significant impacts of such delays where entire regions depend on the transmission line operation, the increased costs of building and maintaining underground networks, and environmental impacts associated with construction and maintenance of underground cables. Noting public concerns in relation to overhead lines, EirGrid also says that it has endeavoured to keep as far away from communities and houses as possible, with a minimum of 50 m clearance.

The overhead versus underground routing of transmission lines has also been raised in the context of health concerns. I am advised that EirGrid complies with all authoritative international and national guidelines on electromagnetic fields, EMF, exposure and notes that despite extensive worldwide research, no conclusive evidence has been found that extremely low frequency EMF exposure is harmful to public health. In response to the concerns that have been raised, however, EirGrid has recently engaged an internationally renowned expert in this field to provide advice on the many queries it has received about EMF exposure. This expert, Professor Michael Repacholi, was previously radiation specialist with the World Health Organisation. The committee may wish to call on Professor Repacholi to address Oireachtas representatives on this issue at their next meeting, after they meet EirGrid.

In planning for the two projects in the north east, EirGrid has engaged in public consultation in the region. Public open days have been held in each of the three counties, Meath, Cavan and Monaghan, meetings have been held with groups of residents and individuals, a telephone information line and e-mail service have been set up, advertisements have been placed in local newspapers and on local radio, and information is available on EirGrid's website. I expect that tomorrow EirGrid will make available the briefing note it has prepared on underground and overhead transmission line issues. This should enhance the information available to public representatives and to local residents.

I am at all times keen to ensure an open and frank debate on issues of public concern and have engaged with representatives of all parties, including my Government colleagues, who have briefed me fully on public concerns about these particular projects. I am mindful that the issue of underground versus overhead lines is not one which is confined to these two projects. I have already taken the initiative in facilitating a broader public discussion on the issues through the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and I welcome the active and constructive engagement of my Oireachtas colleagues on this matter.

I am sure that tomorrow's meeting with the committee will provide a further opportunity for EirGrid and public representatives to address important issues around transmission line infrastructure and in particular the overhead and underground line issues. I will continue to facilitate and encourage active debate on all of the issues, to ensure a better understanding of the technical, economic and environmental aspects to transmission system development. To this end, I have written to the Chairman of the Oireachtas joint committee committing my Department to a further supportive role in this area. I believe that the Chairman will make these details available to the committee tomorrow. Out of courtesy to him, I will allow him to make known what should be the Department's further role and what further action we intend taking to assist this debate. Ultimately, our electricity grid will need to be upgraded and expanded if we are to continue to stimulate economic growth, meet current and future electricity needs, and facilitate greater integration of renewable energy. This is a shared goal, and we need to work together to strive for consensus and understanding of the optimum way forward.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 6 February 2008.