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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 24 Sep 2008

Vol. 661 No. 1

Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2008: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I will summarise the point I made earlier, given the gravity of the debate which has concluded. One must ask about today's Order of Business. Why is the House discussing the Electoral (Amendment) Bill when people outside it are talking about the economy, job losses, the health service and other important matters? If a child in the Visitors Gallery heard the debate which just took place, he or she would be aware of the importance of this House but if he or she had heard only the earlier debate on the Electoral (Amendment) Bill, he or she would be of the view that politicians were talking about themselves at a time when everybody else wanted the House to talk about what is happening in the country.

As I said earlier, the Labour Party accepts the report of the commission and values the work it does. However, how it goes about its business needs to be examined as the terms of reference of the commission are set up by the Minister. The Labour Party believes the process, as currently sequenced, needs very serious examination. Currently, when the commission reports, the report comes to the House as a fait accompli. We would like an interim report to be sent to the stakeholders and those with an interest so that decisions made by the commission can be examined.

I welcome the fact that the Bill provides that within three months of a census report being published, the commission will begin to engage in its work again. However, there is a year between when the preliminary reports come out and when the census reports are fully published. The commission could begin to do its work even at the preliminary stage. There is no doubt that if boundaries had been reviewed in advance of the most recent election and they had reflected the changes in population experienced since 2002, the outcome of a number of constituencies would have been very different. However, nobody can say whether this would have changed the overall outcome of the election. Nevertheless, the structure of the most recent general election should have been examined in terms of how the constituencies were set out.

The terms of reference for the commission set out in the 1997 Act should be amended to protect our system of proportional representation and this should be the key reference for any work of the future commission. This is not just my view or that of a political party; it should be a constitutional requirement on the commission. Given the position of the stipulated voting system within the Constitution, this is not just a point of debate, but a constitutional fact.

In practical terms, this means if there are two or more possible configurations for constituencies in a particular locality, with due regard having been given to all relevant factors, the commission's leaning should be for one that provides for a smaller number of constituencies returning a greater number of Members, rather than a multiplicity of three-seat constituencies. Unfortunately, this is the practice developing from one commission report to another.

It is, therefore, necessary to set out the basic mathematics that show the purpose of proportional representation and a single transferable vote election is most successfully achieved in constituencies that return more than one Member. In the submission made last year by the Labour Party, we argued that a fundamental requirement of the commission was to protect the element of proportionality to ensure the closest possible correlation between the share of votes a party gets to the number of seats it secures. Statistics we provided to the commission clearly demonstrated that larger constituencies provide the greater degree of proportionality.

Unfortunately, the commission took little account of this, leaving the proportion of three, four and five-seat constituencies largely the same. More than one third of all constituencies are now three-seaters, the configuration that produces the least proportional outcome. For example, because the Ceann Comhairle is automatically returned, Kerry South will actually become a two-seater, which comes close to rendering the constitutional right of the people of Kerry South to proportional representation null and void. This situation will recur in any three-seater constituency with a sitting Ceann Comhairle.

The people have voted in referenda on two occasions to retain proportional representation. We should ensure that the value of this system is not undermined by inadequate terms of reference for the commission. I suggest the 1997 Act should be amended through the insertion of the following new paragraph in the commission's terms of reference:

The Commission shall, so far as practicable, recommend such arrangements in relation to the constituencies as are best calculated to result in an outcome where the number of Members of each qualifying party elected to Dáil Éireann, as a proportion of the total number of Members of the Dáil belonging to qualified parties, is the same proportion as the total number of first preference votes obtained by the candidates of each such qualifying party at the general election and this bears to the total number of first preference votes obtained by candidates of all qualifying parties at that election.

This would provide a more democratic outcome in a proportional representation system and I urge the Minister to take this on board.

The terms of reference should also be changed to allow for the creation of six-seater constituencies. We do not have any of these currently, but this should have been considered in the Kerry scenario and would have been appropriate and more favourable than our current two three-seat constituencies. These changes would result in a more open and transparent system for reviewing the constituencies, while preserving the principle of an independent process. They would provide results in which the public would have greater confidence and provide a bulwark against the further erosion of our system proportional representation. The commission itself should be looked at in the overall context of institutional reform. The role of the commission is not something that operates in isolation from other parts of the electoral process. This examination should result in a number of significant changes to the manner in which elections are organised and conducted in the State.

In order to achieve this goal, I intend to bring before the House an electoral commission Bill that would establish a new electoral and public offices commission to take over the powers of the existing Standards in Public Office Commission and the Referendum and Constituency Commission. The new body would also take over responsibility from local authorities for the electoral register and from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government for the running of elections. Currently there is much talk about the convergence of State agencies to bring about greater efficiency. This area is a very obvious area for convergence. Not only would it provide more efficient elections, but we would also get an independent structure that would ensure the basic principles of the election process, particularly of proportional representation, are protected.

The Bill also provides for major changes in the process by which the constituencies are revised. In redrawing the constituencies, the commission will be required, so far as practicable, to recommend an arrangement of constituency sizes and boundaries that is best calculated to produce an overall proportionate result. To achieve this result, it will be able to recommend constituencies returning three, four, five or six Members. Currently, the maximum number is five.

The commission would also be able to commence work on redrawing the constituencies on the basis of the preliminary census figures, which would be more effective than the current system. However, I welcome the tidying up of this area to some extent within the three-month schedule, but by doing this at preliminary result stage, the job would be far easier to manage and provide for a better timeframe. If, for example, a census is envisaged within the lifetime of the current Government, we could find ourselves in a position where we are in the middle of a commission going into the next general election. I do not think that should be the case or that we should have commissions immediately after elections. Commissions should have their work completed well in advance, from 18 months to two years, before any general election.

The publication of a preliminary or draft report would address one of the major shortcomings of the current system, whereby once the commission produces its report, it cannot be asked to review the decision, no matter how illogical, irrational or inconsistent with its own terms of reference it may be. This situation was reflected in the Kerry-Limerick situation, where two local authorities, operating in two different counties and incorporating two different areas, have converged. This is probably a situation that will be redrawn and revised when the error of this approach becomes apparent. Some of the recommendations made in the most recent report, such as the transfer of 14,000 County Limerick voters to the Kerry North constituency would fall into this category. I am sure other Members are aware of similar cases in other constituencies.

The other major area of reform relates to the compilation of the electoral register. Despite some belated efforts made prior to the most recent election to update the register, anyone involved in active politics will be aware just how inaccurate the register remains. Before the most recent election, some €6 million was spent by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in an attempt to tidy up the register of electors, but this attempt failed spectacularly. In some parts of Ireland the register figures exceeded the census figures by 105%. There is something radically wrong when we have a situation where there are more registered voters for a constituency than are registered as living in it. Northern Ireland has a smaller population than us, but it can manage an almost perfectly accurate register of electors on a budget of €2.5 million a year. We threw €6 million at our system, on top of the existing budget, but still got it wrong.

My Bill also proposes to transfer to the commission the functions of local authorities for preparing and publishing the register of electors. The commission must seek to achieve the comprehensive, accurate and timely registration of persons entitled to be registered as electors in an efficient and economical manner. Currently we have 34 local authorities using 34 different systems with 34 varying levels of priority. Some local authorities take the management of the electoral system seriously, but others do not and deal with it in the basement of the city, county or town hall. It does not have equal priority and, therefore, a disparity exists in the register of electors figures across the country. I propose that a new commission would be entitled to access information from statutory bodies and utility companies in order to accurately record the names and addresses of electors. Such a commission would be able to use public service identity numbers to ensure the accuracy of the register, which is the case in Northern Ireland.

While many aspects of this Bill are positive, a number of opportunities have been lost. The most obvious of these is the opportunity to fundamentally reform the overall structure, not by tinkering with boundaries and constituencies but by creating a commission that governs the process of elections in this country on an independent basis. That would result in a more efficient, effective and measurable means of running elections in this country.

We are repeating the former system in regard to electoral reform. Where 12 five seat constituencies existed, we now have 11. The number of four seat constituencies has increased from 13 to 15, while three seat constituencies have decreased from 18 to 17. The overall trend is a drift away from five seat constituencies. However, an examination of the proportional representation shows that the larger the seat ratio per constituency, the better the proportional representation and the greater the democratic outcome. Most important of all, we have more assurance that the public will have the type of representation they seek. Unfortunately, that has been eroded by the commission's report and this Bill.

The electoral process is the cornerstone of our democratic system. It is essential that the public have full confidence in the reliability of the electoral register and the way in which constituency boundaries are determined. We need to examine this issue as a totality in terms of the systems of elections as well as the structures within which they are held. There is a need for reform in both areas. Structural reforms are needed in respect of expanding the remit of the commission and there is a need to tidy up the systems which currently exist. One obvious means of achieving these ends is the draft report which has been brought before us. However, if we are to be truthful to ourselves, we should admit that our current debate holds little prospect of for this outcome. I ask for changes to the process so that a democratic input is facilitated because the public needs to have confidence in the system.

The most glaring omission in this Bill is its missed opportunity to introduce spending limits on local elections. An anomaly exists in that while expenditure limits are imposed on general election candidates, there is no ceiling on local election spending, despite smaller voter bases and geographical areas. The only requirement is that records of expenditure must be supplied. We could be debating boundaries once again in three or four years time but the most immediate issue before us is the local elections. I question the Minister's position on this matter, given his earlier comments on it. It appears that his involvement in Government has diluted his opinion.

Tá áthas orm seans a fháil labhairt ar an mBille tábhachtach seo. I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this issue once again and am relieved that the proposals contained in the constituency boundary report are at last being taken seriously. When I was last afforded the opportunity to speak on the Constituency Commission's proposals, it was merely to make a statement on them. I expressed disappointment at the time that members would not have an opportunity to vote on the issue and that it would be treated as an interim report. Such was the level of respectful objection among many of the speakers that the Minister, Deputy Gormley, agreed to bring the issue back to the House in the form of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2008.

Although I am disappointed that the Bill adopts the same recommendations as those of the Constituency Commission's report, I now have the opportunity, with other Deputies who suggested a re-examination of the recommendations, to appeal for real change. I hope we will have some leverage to compel the relevant committee to include our suggestions on Committee Stage.

When I previously spoke on this subject last May, I made clear my objections to some of the Constituency Commission's proposals. In particular, I remain convinced that the plan to rejig parts of north Dublin into the Dublin West constituency is ludicrous. Many other areas will also be affected. Limerick West is to be incorporated into Kerry North, parts of east County Meath are to be included in Louth, parts of south County Offaly will move to North Tipperary and Leitrim remains divided into two Dáil constituencies.

I acknowledge the reasons for this proposal and I am in no way criticising the commission itself as I know it is acting independently and has no agenda. However, I believe it to be short-sighted in some of its recommendations. In a bid to address the balance among the constituencies, the commission has commenced this slash and burn plan. It is arbitrarily hacking apart constituencies and adding a portion of one constituency to another. This slapdash approach will undoubtedly satisfy the representation ratio of 30,000 per Deputy but it is ripping apart communities and disenfranchising thousands of people.

The situation in my constituency of Dublin North and neighbouring Dublin West is a case in point. Both constituencies have too many people and too few public representatives. It is proposed to make up the shortfall in the hugely under represented Dublin West by chopping an area containing 13,000 people out of the town of Swords. This allows for the creation of one more seat in Dublin West. By shifting the boundary, the population of Dublin North is also reduced to such a degree that the ratio of seats to population is more closely satisfied.

Swords is the largest town in my constituency. It has a population of 33,000 and is growing rapidly. Fingal County Council estimates that the population of Swords will grow to upwards of 100,000 people in the next 20 years and is taking this prediction so seriously that members recently passed a plan, Your Swords, an Emerging City, to cater for the growth. Swords is already the tenth largest town in Ireland and is larger than Navan and Kilkenny. It is geographically isolated from Dublin West by virtue of 11 miles of agricultural land, while the M50 and the airport prevent it from sprawling into the more urban centres of Santry and Ballymun and the M1 means it will never grow as far as Malahide. Swords is one of the single most identifiable stand-alone towns in north County Dublin, so to split it between two constituencies seems madness. The proposals in the Constituency Commission's report, and now the Electoral (Amendment) Bill, definitely serve a purpose, but the same result could have been achieved through detailed consideration of all the constituencies. Proper consideration is necessary to prevent towns being split across different constituencies just to make up the numbers.

The proposal for Swords is preposterous. It is planned to split Swords down the Main Street, with everyone to the west of the street voting in Dublin West and everyone else voting in Dublin North. Consider the case of the River Valley area of Swords. This is a large housing estate which generates an enormous number of queries for me every year. The people are politically active and well aware of their public representatives. If somebody living in the Boroimhe Estate in Swords, for example, whose children go to school in Swords village, has a problem with that school, who will they consult? Will it be me as the representative for Dublin North or my colleague, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, because they will now vote in Dublin West? What was a close-knit, politically active community will be bewildered as to who represents them on these issues. I predict their disillusionment with politics.

The same confusion will exist for local councillors as they prepare to work with the Deputies from two different constituencies to deal with the same issues. This is just one example of the jurisdictional problems that will arise from the proposal to split Swords and the River Valley-Forest Road area. The housing estates of Boroimhe, Ridgewood, Forest Road, Knocksedan and Highfields are all destined to join Castleknock, Blanchardstown, Porterstown, Clonsilla and Mulhuddart in Dublin West. All of these areas will have a weakened electoral power.

The hundreds of residents who contacted me after the commission issued its report live in fear of disenfranchisement. At the next election they believe they will be considered the last outpost before the boundary with Dublin North, and their views will not be canvassed. They are aware they will make up just 12% of the population of Dublin West and their opinions and needs will be secondary to those of the larger urban areas of Castleknock and Blanchardstown. Even more galling is the likelihood that when the population expands in both constituencies, which is certain, Swords will once again be reunified with Dublin North, making this exercise entirely pointless. If Swords grows to 100,000 people, as predicted, and similar growth is experienced in Dublin West it is likely that both populations will support additional seats in their own right.

Another ludicrous suggestion is the proposal to move the airport into the Dublin West constituency. If one asked anybody where the airport is located, Dublin West would not be the obvious answer. The airport is an ideological symbol of Dublin North. It is incredibly important to the population of Dublin North, whom I represent. To move it into the constituency of another group of Deputies is, at best, unwise and, at worst, ridiculous.

In addition, areas of Portmarnock are being moved from Dublin North to Dublin North-East. In fact, their removal is further proof of the slapdash approach the commission employed in making its recommendations. Deputy Terence Flanagan spoke on the Bill earlier. In the map used by the commission, two estates will remain in Dublin North while the rest of Portmarnock will be moved into Dublin North-East. This shows how ridiculous these proposals are. A small group of people living in Portmarnock, ten metres from their neighbours, will be represented by Deputies for Dublin North, and I will be happy to represent them, but the rest of the people will be represented by Deputies for Dublin North-East. These proposals are short-sighted and ridiculous.

I mentioned earlier that Swords is seen as a stand-alone town. It also identifies itself primarily as a north Dublin town. The residents of Swords have issues that are very specific to north County Dublin and they align themselves historically with the nearby towns of Balbriggan, Skerries, Donabate, Rush, Lusk, Malahide and Portmarnock. I have been contacted by hundreds of people from Swords on this issue. Never have I seen a proposal so violently opposed by such large numbers. Such is the level of opposition that the community has formed a non-partisan, non-political group called the Swords Electoral Boundary Action Group. I suggest that the Minister and the members of the Joint Committee on the Environment, Heritage and Local Government examine the group's excellent submission document and take on board its recommendations.

The Swords Electoral Boundary Action Group raises the issue of contiguous areas and how the 1997 Electoral Act states that each constituency "shall be composed of contiguous areas" and that "there shall be regard for geographical considerations including significant physical features and the extent and the density of population in each constituency". This means we are legally obliged to take account of the natural geographical boundaries. I believe the 11 km of farm land and the N2 lying between Swords and Blanchardstown should be considered the boundaries.

The commission and the Minister have been at pains to explain the motivation for moving a proportion of Swords into Dublin West. Again, it comes back to the issue of re-addressing boundaries and both would argue that the constitutional obligation to provide a balanced constituency far outweighs the legal ramifications of not obeying geographical boundaries. However, in weighing up the issue of equality of representation versus adherence to natural townland boundaries, the Supreme Court, as outlined in the Constituency Commission's report, deferred to Deputies and local representatives to identify the problems arising out of redrawing boundaries. In the section of the report relating to equality of representation, the commission quotes the Supreme Court judgment on the matter of Article 26 of the Constitution and in the matter of the Electoral Amendment Bill 1961: "The problem of what is practicable is primarily one for the Oireachtas, whose members have knowledge of the problems and difficulties to be solved, which this court cannot have."

These reports should be interim reports. The Members of this House are better aware of the issues involved than a small group of people who are not as familiar with the areas. The commission's report goes so far as to suggest that where the boundaries of counties, townlands and electoral divisions are to be disrupted by proposed changes, there can be a departure from the constitutional requirements relating to equality of representation. It appears out of kilter, therefore, for the Commission to recommend the removal of 13,000 voters from Swords and to transfer them to the Dublin West constituency.

As I have said previously, and I will continue to say it until somebody listens, the proposal to split Swords between two constituencies is madness. It is a nightmare for the people of the area, the public representatives and the infrastructural services provided in the area. The local election boundary report did not recommend that Swords be split. The committee was recommended to follow Dáil constituency boundaries and it agreed that Swords should remain a single area. I am extremely disappointed the Minister has not taken the opportunity with this Bill to listen to the many Deputies throughout the House who can point out these deficiencies. I hope our proposals will be listened to on Committee Stage. That would be in the best interests of democracy.

I wish to share time with Deputy Jimmy Deenihan. I echo the sentiments of previous speakers. We are debating something today that should have been debated long ago. It is not a priority. The commission's report was published last October but we are only seeing the Bill a year later. At the same time, the health service is malfunctioning. Women are worrying about their lives, people are dying and the economy is on its knees yet we have set aside at least an hour or two to debate this Bill. We should be debating issues of relevance to the daily lives of people in terms of health and jobs. However, that is not what we are doing. We should not be discussing today a Bill that should have been dealt with months ago.

While recognising the independence of the commission and its findings, in particular in regard to the Limerick East constituency which I represent, it appears unusual that the people of Limerick are to be divided between three constituencies rather than two. The current constituencies are Limerick East and Limerick West and it is proposed to divide Limerick into three constituencies, namely, Limerick city, Limerick and Kerry North-West Limerick.

Our job is to represent the people who elect us. More than 17,000 voters in the Limerick West constituency are to be transferred to the constituency of Limerick. People are upset they will no longer be represented by the representatives of Limerick East with whom they have dealt for decades. I and, I have no doubt, other representatives from the Limerick East constituency, will continue to represent these people although they will not be in a position to vote for us at the next election.

The Limerick West constituency will be known as the constituency of Limerick. More than 13,000 of the population of Limerick West will be transferred to the constituency of Kerry North-West Limerick. These people also feel disenfranchised. What has happened is that Kerry, in terms of population, could not sustain two three-seater constituencies. The commission was directed in its terms of reference to ensure, where practicable, constituencies were retained within county boundaries. Transferring a population of 13,000 from one constituency to a constituency in another county does not make sense.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch stated earlier that the constituency of Limerick West will fall between two local authority areas, Kerry and Limerick, which will cause difficulties in operational terms. People are anxious. Areas such as Kilteely, Cappamore, Doon, Pallasgreen, Oolagh, Moroe, Herbertstown, Hospital and Caherconlish currently part of Limerick East will be part of a new constituency. Clearly, Limerick was sacrificed to ensure the retention of the two three-seater constituencies in Kerry. I mean no disrespect to the people of Kerry who are great neighbours. However, given it is stated in the terms of reference that constituencies should be retained in county boundaries, one must question this decision.

In summary, we should not be debating this issue today. There are far more important things happening at the moment. One such issue was raised earlier by way of private notice question. Issues of concern are those relating to health and people's worries about the economy going forward in terms of employment. I will continue to represent the people of Limerick East who will be part of the new constituency of Limerick. They gave me a mandate to represent them and I will continue to do so.

I regret that this issue is being debated in the House today. There are far more important issues we could be debating. It is difficult for the people of the eastern part of Limerick to accept what is happening. However, we accept the independence of the commission.

Obviously, I am affected to a large extent by this Bill. As previous speakers including Deputy Kieran O'Donnell have said, the county of Limerick is to be divided into three different constituencies, Limerick, Limerick city and Kerry North-West Limerick. This will create a great deal of confusion for people in this region and may result in representatives from boundary areas being closer to them than those who represent them.

I would like if the Minister could give us some assurance that these will be the boundaries going into the next election. If not, there will be considerable pressure on representatives in terms of the level of service they provide to their constituents. This would be unfair to representatives and the communities they represent. It would make little sense if we were to have another review and another formation of constituencies. I appeal to any future commission to ensure it puts in place what is being proposed here today.

More than 5,098 of the population of north Kerry will be transferred to the Kerry South constituency. Obviously, I will miss that part of my constituency because I had built up a strong connection with a large number of the electorate there. Many of the communities involved are disappointed that I and other representatives with whom they are familiar will no longer be representing them. However, being transferred to the constituency of Kerry South may not affect them as much as will the transfer of more than 13,000 people from Limerick West to the constituency of Kerry North, given that transfer will take them over a county boundary. I hope the new constituency will be recognised as the constituency of Limerick West and Kerry North. It is important to impress upon the communities of Limerick West that this will be the case and that they will not be isolated. It is not the case that they are being plucked and put into the constituency of Kerry North. Politicians representing that area will be representing a different geographical area and should represent it accordingly.

I have examined precedent in this regard. Coincidentally, during the second and third Dála, Kerry and Limerick West were part of the same constituency. It was an eight-seater at that time and the constituency of Limerick city and Limerick East was a four-seater. In the third Dáil, which was in June 1922 — the first Dáil was in May 1921 — Kerry and Limerick West were one constituency. Thus, there is a precedent for a connection between Kerry and Limerick West. In 1923, Kerry became a seven-seater and Limerick a seven-seater. In a way, it is history repeating itself.

West Limerick has a close affinity with north Kerry, especially in border communities such as Athea and Moyvane. Over the years there has been much to-ing and fro-ing across the border. They have great cultural links through music and dance. West Limerick has a strong literary tradition and poets such as Dáibhí Ó Bruadair and Michael Hartnett had strong connections with north Kerry. In agriculture, both north Kerry and west Limerick are strong dairying areas. Now most of the milk suppliers provide milk to the Kerry group because of the amalgamation of Golden Vale and Kerry. There are bonds among the agricultural community as well.

With regard to infrastructure, the N69 is an important road for both west Limerick and north Kerry. This certainly represents a connection between the two parts of the constituency. The Shannon Estuary also represents a strong bond between the two areas, knitting together both sides of the constituency. Now, with exciting things happening in the Shannon Estuary, including a natural gas project, the new arrangement may provide more focus on this area and on the important land bank in Tarbert and Ballylongford. This will benefit communities in both north Kerry and west Limerick, and will give a new focus to the Shannon Estuary and new hope to Tarbert Island now that the power station is being privatised and taken over by a Spanish company. Certainly, it will lead to a new dynamic within those parts of Kerry and Limerick. For that reason, the new constituency may have many advantages for both communities.

I ask the Minister to refer to the status of the change. Is there certainty that these constituencies will be in place going into the next election? It is important that the position is clarified. Will the commission sit again, with the result that new constituencies will be formed going into the next election? I ask the Minister to reassure us on that point.

I wish to share my time with Deputy Joe Behan.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this debate, the subject of which will have a severe impact on me and the area I represent in Dáil Éireann in the future.

The report of the Constituency Commission recommends further partitioning of the area I represent in the House. It recommends transferring a further 6,776 people, the electorate of the areas of Kells town, Kells rural district and Stahalmog, from the constituency of Meath West to Meath East. County town and parish boundaries have been disregarded and, under the proposals, Kells town and its natural hinterland are to be in separate constituencies. Kells is a rural town with close links to the surrounding villages and smaller towns of north Meath. The future economic well-being of the greater Kells area would be best served by keeping the entire area in one Dáil constituency.

The greater north Meath area has been subjected to serious territorial change over the years. In 1973, part of it was transferred into the constituency of Cavan. The population of the area then helped elect the late and great John P. Wilson, a former Minister and Tánaiste, to this House. Another part of north Meath was transferred to the constituency of Monaghan, where its electorate helped elect the great former Minister and Ceann Comhairle, Deputy Rory O'Hanlon. In later years, however, both areas were returned to the Meath constituency. Indeed, my great friend and colleague with whom I have served for more than 34 years, Michael Lynch, who was elected to this House on two occasions and to Seanad Éireann, is from this area.

Prior to the 2007 election, County Meath was divided again when the constituencies of Meath West and Meath East were established. Unfortunately, I lost a large part of my constituency, in Slane, Navan and, in the case of Kells, an area extending from Moynalty to Meath Hill, to my colleague and great friend Deputy Thomas Byrne. This included areas such as Carlanstown, Newcastle, Tierworker, Kilmainham Wood, Kilbeg, Nobber and Drumcondra, which were part of the Kells electoral area. Unfortunately, this area is now being changed again. The previous changes affected parish boundaries and the new proposals in the latest review will transfer three quarters of my parish of Kells to Meath East. Parts of the parishes of Carlanstown and Carnaross were transferred to Meath East under the previous boundary changes. It is unfair to split parishes in two. I take the opportunity to thank the people of Kells and Stahalmog for giving me over 60% of the vote in that area in previous elections. As a public representative, first as a county councillor and now as a TD, I have represented the town of Kells and its rural hinterland for more than 34 years. The electorate of the area do not want to lose a representative who has served them for such a long time. The Kells area has been affected most by the decision to divide the county into two constituencies.

I note in respect of the Meath and Louth constituencies that the commission recommends extending the Louth constituency by moving the Meath East environs of Drogheda into the electoral constituency of Louth. The report also highlights the need for a transfer of population from Meath West to Meath East. I note the Constituency Commission does not make a recommendation in this regard but instead proposes the transfer of a population of 6,776 in the Ceanannas Mór area from Meath West to Meath East. If the rapid population growth in Meath West and Meath East continues at the rates indicated in the latest census, further changes will be required in the next constituency review. In consideration of this and based on the difference in the words used, the commission's proposal, as opposed to recommendation, to move Kells from Meath West to Meath East does not require implementation.

The recommendations of the report are inconsistent, confusing and unprecedented, and do not take into account the preservation of natural communities. While I fully recognise that the Constituency Commission is an independent body, its independence does not confer on it the status of infallibility. Recommendations made from a mathematical perspective with no consideration for the democratic rights of local communities are wrong. The fragmentation of closely knit communities across north Meath threatens the co-ordination of future growth in the area. The Electoral Act 1997 states that "each constituency shall be composed of contiguous areas" and that "there shall be regard to geographic considerations including significant physical features and the extent of and the density of population in each constituency". Surely people in north Meath should not be disenfranchised because of the density of population in towns such as Ratoath, Dunboyne and Ashbourne. I do not understand why the Constituency Commission chose not to consider moving those areas to Dublin constituencies such as Dublin West and Dublin North with which they are more aligned, rather than depriving people in parts of north Meath of a Deputy who has served them for 34 years. It is very unfair. I cannot understand why they never looked at those areas.

In the previous change, I was lucky that part of Westmeath — the Coole electoral area — came into the Meath West constituency.

I ask the Acting Chairman to tell me when my time is up.

The Deputy has two and a half minutes.

His time could be up after the next general election.

Unfortunately this time I am getting no extra ground which is very unfair. In the new European constituencies, most of Meath West is in the Ireland East constituency and part of the Meath West constituency — the Coole area of Westmeath — will be in the Ireland North-West constituency, which is also very unfair to the people of that area.

Section 6(2)(f) also states: “subject to the provisions of this section, the Commission shall endeavour to maintain continuity in relation to the arrangement of constituencies”. The Electoral Act 1997 also recommends that “the breaching of county boundaries shall be avoided as far as practicable”. On behalf of the people I have represented in this House for the past 11 years I ask why north Meath should be subjected to such divisive and unfair decisions for electoral purposes.

At the outset I take the opportunity to thank the staff of the Oireachtas Library and research service whose work is vital to the quality of debate in the Dáil and Seanad Chambers. I have used the special debate packs on a number of occasions to date and I have found them to be an excellent aid to preparation and research prior to making a contribution to a debate such as this. I have read all of the debate pack regarding this vital legislation and I have yet again found it to contain all the essential background material necessary to achieve a broad understanding of the Bill as well as being informative as to the views of interested parties within and outside the House.

I will of course be supporting the passage of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill through this Chamber as it reflects the decision of the Government to implement the recommendations of the Constituency Commission report of 2007 as well as including other legislative amendments reflecting court decisions regarding electoral law. However, I will also be taking up the invitation of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government as quoted by the Irish Examiner on 24 October 2007 when he said: “Deputies from all sides of the House will no doubt have views on specific recommendations and they will have the opportunity to raise them during debate on the legislation.”

I welcome the provision in the Bill to comply with the High Court judgment of June 2007 allowing for the establishment of future constituency commissions on publication by the CSO of preliminary census results and allowing for the finalisation of the commission's work after the CSO final report is published. I note this allows much work to be done in a timely manner while ensuring final decisions are made on the final figures.

I also welcome the relaxation of the onerous assent requirements on non-party candidates in future local and European Parliament elections. I also welcome the reasonable deposit rates set out for local and European Parliament candidates in lieu of obtaining assents. I believe passionately that democracy is a precious gift bequeathed to us by our forefathers and it is essential the barriers to any citizen of this State wishing to stand for election should be so small as to be invisible. I would quibble with the provision to withhold the deposit from candidates who receive less than 25% of a quota, but I still believe the basic deposit required is achievable for all who wish to stand.

Those are elements of the Bill which I praise. I turn to some elements of the proposed legislation with which I have some difficulty or to put it more accurately with the Constituency Commission report and its implications for democracy. I cannot understand why the commission did not increase the total number of Members of Dáil Éireann from the present total of 166 to the number to which it could have statutorily agreed which is 168. The number of 166 has been set since 1980 — 28 years ago. Our population as measured at that time was 3,368,217. Our population according to the 2006 census was 4,239,848, an increase of more than 25%. It is unbelievable that the commission did not see fit to decide that the people were entitled to the maximum allowable number of Dáil Deputies given such an increase in population. What is even more astounding is the lack of comment on this failure across the political spectrum. I do not know whether this is because of political correctness or whether it is because the media are constantly critical of Members of this House right across party lines and it might have been seen as an attempt to increase the number of these "useless" Deputies. It is amazing that we as a body did not respond more vigorously to what I regard as a very basic failure of the commission to allow two additional Deputies when we have a 25% increase in the population. This failure is one of the most significant of all in this commission report and I remain completely unconvinced by the weak justification offered for this failure.

I agree with many Members of this House, some of whom have already spoken, in my exasperation at the continuing trampling by the Constituency Commission across county boundaries. The people of more and more counties must acclimatise to electoral boundaries which make absolutely no geographical or administrative sense. Given that the county has been the administrative unit of our country since the foundation of the State I cannot understand how this tradition can be ignored so fundamentally every time a new Constituency Commission report is prepared. It is high time that we, as elected Members of this body, take this matter extremely seriously.

I will shortly personalise the matter to my constituency. However, Members should first consider the much-quoted example of County Leitrim. It would be easy for natives of County Leitrim to believe that this Constituency Commission is out to get them because not alone has the county been split in two but the division in population decided by the commission is such that it is impossible for Leitrim to elect a Deputy of its own. This state of affairs is completely unacceptable. I have nothing to gain from any change regarding Leitrim but it is not right and should be addressed as a matter of urgency. It is important to note that the largest number of submissions on any issue received by the commission was made on behalf of people living in Leitrim who wanted to include all of County Leitrim in one constituency. However, the commission stated it was not possible to find a solution that met the concerns in the submissions and had no undesirable impact on the configuration of other constituencies. So the message the people of Leitrim can take from that is that it is acceptable to have decisions undesirable to Leitrim people but not to anyone else. The people of Leitrim are being classed by this commission as second-class citizens which is wrong. It is unacceptable to me and it should be unacceptable to all of us as democrats. My constituency suffers from this geographically nonsensical approach by the Constituency Commission. Happy and willing as I am to serve the needs of my constituents from east Carlow — Rathvilly, Hacketstown and Clonmore — they are not well served where their local county administration is in County Carlow but their TDs are in County Wicklow. It is madness and it must change.

I pay tribute to the Taoiseach who, before the summer, floated an idea in the Chamber that perhaps members of all parties could get together to discuss the implications of this report to see if the lack of respect for county boundaries could be addressed. It is regrettable that the idea was seized on as an effort to interfere with the impartial and independent process set up by the commission. What happened was that the Government said it would allow the report to go through to the Dáil Members. We, as Members, have a responsibility to try to address this issue and, if necessary, change the law and the Constitution to ensure that all future constituencies, whether single or double county, are coterminous with county boundaries. The people who live in disenfranchised counties, such as Leitrim, deserve no less. Furthermore, if this matter was to put to a vote of the people it would be resoundingly supported.

I wish to share time with Deputies Ring and McGinley.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Despite the fact that the report was published last October, we are only discussing the Bill now, almost 12 months later. There has been much delay and uncertainty as to whether the Government would introduce the report as it was or, as the Taoiseach suggested, discuss the division of counties. He was particularly vulnerable on that point because the proposals in the commission's report affect his own constituency. Nevertheless, we are discussing it now. Given that the report implements the CSO figures prior to the 2007 general election, the delay is considerable. I am pleased that one part of the Bill stipulates that in future once the CSO figures are produced that will kick start such a report and it will be able to use the preliminary figures rather than the final report. That is a positive development, given the time delay in getting to this point. The Bill still has to go through Committee and Remaining Stages. If that is the case, we expect the next CSO publication in 2011, following which there should be a report in 2012. Some speakers have said they hope there will be no further change before the next general election. Nobody knows. According to the figures I have given, the chances are there will be a new review before the next general election if the Government goes full term. I hope we do not get to that because we had difficulties prior to the 2007 general election where the constitutionality of the boundaries in place at that time was challenged. As a result of that judicial review there is a provision in the Bill which provides that once the CSO publishes its figures that will kick start a boundary review.

My constituency is not affected. However, the adjacent constituency, Cork North-Central, will go from four seats to five. In the previous review, Cork City and county had 18 seats but will now have 19. Also in this review it is proposed that there will be a seat loss in the Limerick-Kerry area, the Acting-Chairman's area. This is a stark reminder of how these seats have gone to the east of the country and it underlines the population drift. That is for another debate, and one that should take place, in regard to where we are going in terms of decentralisation and investing in the regions to ensure there is not over-population of the east. What is happening is that everything is drifting to the east. Looking to the future, we need to invest in the regions to ensure a vibrant population in those areas. That seats are drifting to the east in this review underlines that fact.

While my constituency has not been affected, I agree that county boundaries should not be divided. Leitrim is a point in case. It is probably impossible to elect a representative from the Leitrim area now. Kerry North-Limerick East is a new constituency. There are people in that area who will have representation from a different county. That is not the ideal way forward. That same applies in Tipperary North and Offaly. There will be different local authorities in those areas. There will be a Dáil constituency but yet two local authorities will be responsible for that constituency. That is difficult and not an ideal situation.

The recent local authority boundary review tried as far as possible to stick with the Dáil constituency boundaries. That is welcome. Under this review, five counties are affected, including Leitrim. I hope this trend does not continue because the people living in those areas are not be happy, and certainly their representatives are not happy. It will lead to difficulties and confusion in regard to local authority areas. I would like to see that issue addressed.

I am concerned that the number of five seat constituencies has been reduced as they contributed much to our democracy. They gave smaller parties an opportunity to gain representation which would not happen if there was a dearth of three seat constituencies. It is important to maintain them because when one looks back at previous elections and the way in which proportional representation delivered seats for the smaller parties, it happened generally in the five seat constituencies.

I am pleased the programme for Government proposed that an electoral commission be established to look at constituency boundaries, maintain the electoral register and act as a watchdog for political funding. It is an interesting proposal. Professor Richard Sinnott has been engaged by the Minister to look at the proposal. I will be interested to see his findings.

Much work needs to be done on the electoral register. We have had many negative reports, although it varies across local authority areas. It was good in my area but there are areas which had a population of 105%. Obviously there is a great deal of movement in the population with people renting homes and apartments and the register is not up to speed. I look forward to the report on that issue.

It is a shame there has been such a long delay in getting to this point. I hope the provision in the Bill that will kick start a review, once the CSO figures are produced will help us to avoid such a long delay in the future. Following a two and a half month break from the House, I am disappointed that in a Bill such this, which has been kicking around for a long time, that is all the Government has to put on the table today.

I look forward to the debate later this evening on the economy. It will be an opportunity for people to share their views. Certainly my party has some positive proposals in that area. However, we would have preferred if the Government had devoted its time to such a debate today.

I wish to share time with Deputy Dinny McGinley. Like Deputy Clune I thought there would be much more important business in the Dáil today. That is not to say that this matter is not important but the thinking of the Government must be that it will not last long. I suppose it wants to get its act together and deal with this business.

I listened recently to proposals by the Green Party, made by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley. What he mentioned was new, namely, funding between elections and the amount of money councillors can spend. The latest thing is that the Minister does not want posters and therefore we cannot have posters up on poles or outside polling booths. Now that Deputy Gormley is in government he will be like all the others and will never wish to leave it. The sad thing, and one cannot know what may happen, is that he might bring in a Bill putting an end to further elections and might stay in power forever.

The Minister must watch himself. One time there was a party known as the PDs. Its Deputies used to sit over with Fianna Fáil. They are not there anymore. I can assure the House that the Green Party will go the same way after the next elections. It will no longer sit where it used to and it will not be on this side of the House either. The Minister ought not to rush to get rid of posters and elections.

I have a few observations to make in respect of this particular Bill. One concerns the European election. I heard Deputy Brady express concerns and he is right. A huge constituency will be created in the north west, to include Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Donegal, Westmeath, extending to Longford. For a three-seater constituency this is an enormous area. I wish to assure the Deputy that if I am still in the field and am elected, I will look after Meath for him. He need not worry. The people of Meath will not be forgotten as long as I am there.

Is that an announcement?

It is not an announcement, just a fair observation in case I am selected and elected, and if I go.

It is a straw in the wind.

In respect of this Bill there is an issue I would have preferred the Minister to discuss when he was talking about boundary changes in both the European and the Dáil elections. I cannot understand why there is such resistance to appointing people to deal with the registers. There is no doubt that local authorities have failed. We saw this happen before the last election and, in all fairness to the Minister, he had to put funding in place to allow local authorities put people on the register. What is nobody's business is everybody's business. The time has come for the Minister to give that responsibility to somebody. At present the updating of the register is not even given out as a summer job scheme for students. They might earn some euro going out and knocking on doors, at apartments and flats, trying to get people onto the register. Nothing is more annoying at election time than to have people who genuinely want to vote being prevented from doing so.

What has happened in my own consitutuency is that certain people who were on the register have been knocked off it, for one reason or another, when it was reprinted. There is also the situation of people who have been dead for years but whose cards come through the door during every election period causing upset to their families. Their loved ones may have been dead for up to seven years without the matter having been sorted out.

I say to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and to the Government that there are enough people in Departments now who might be able to think up a scheme or do something about this electoral issue. It should be taken away from local authorities, which are not prepared to deal with it, and should be given to somebody although not to an agency. We have enough quangos in this country. The undertaking could be given to schools during the summer. A certain number of people in each county might be employed in a summer job scheme. They would earn a few euro to get into college and they would be given some responsibility. In that way, the register would be updated every year. It is a simple suggestion and would not cost a fortune.

Local authorities take people on for the summer. In this case why not have, for instance, 40 people employed in each local authority? Their job would be to update the register of electors and they would be paid for the summer months. I see nothing wrong with the suggestion and it should be taken on board by the Minister and the Government. That would stop the situation whereby, in every election I have fought, from town council to county council to the Dáil, there has always been criticism of the register. I cannot understand why we, as practising politicians, do not put such a scheme in place. The suggestion I have offered the Minister is not a big idea and it is one that the Government might consider.

I shall finish on this note. I am in a five-seat constituency which at one time was two three-seaters. I have spoken about this before and now I put it on the record once again. It is unfair when boundaries are extended beyond natural areas, counties and actual borders. Mayo is one of the largest counties in the country and it is impossible to travel from one part of the constituency to the other. I say the following against myself, as I have done previously. I see nothing wrong with having even a three-seater and a two-seater but to have a five-seater in such a large county is ridiculous. It is not good for the health of Deputies to travel all over the county. I leave my home on a Saturday and go to north Mayo and am 70 miles away, doing clinics. If I have to go to Ballina the situation is the same. At a public meeting the other night I was 35 miles from my home.

It is all very well for the media to say that such work is not part of my job. I say to the Dublin 4 brigade that it may not be the job but if a Deputy does not keep in touch with the people and does not go to public meetings the people will soon put him or her out of this House. It is a pity that the Dublin 4 media can help to put a Deputy out but they cannot help put one in. If a Deputy does not keep in contact with the people, those same people will soon lose contact with him or her.

Tá lúcháir orm deis a bheith agam cúpla focal a rá ar an mBille seo. Is páirt riachtanach den phróiseas daonlathach agus den phróiseas parlaiminte go gcaithfidh muid Billí mar seo a thabhairt isteach agus a phlé sa Dáil. Cuirim fáilte roimhe mar go bhfuil sé riachtanach. Is iontach an rud é go bhfuil muid ag plé an Bhille seo inniu, an chéad lá dúinn bheith ar ais sa Dáil, cé gur chuir an coimisiún an tuairisc ar fáil beagnach bliain ó shin, Deireadh Fómhair 2007. Inniu táimid ag plé tuairiscí an choimisiúin bliain iomlán i ndiaidh sin. Cé aige atá a fhios an mbeidh ceann eile le plé againn sula mbeidh an chéad toghchán eile againn? Beidh an chéad toghchán eile sa bhliain 2012 agus an daonáireamh againn sa bhliain 2011. Níl a fhios agam an iad seo na teorainn a bhéas againn don chéad toghchán eile agus is fiú cuimhne a bheith againn ar sin. Is cinnte, áfach, gur seo na teorainn a bhéas againn le haghaidh toghchán na hEorpa.

Ba mhaith liom tagairt don mhéad a bhí le rá ag an Teachta Joe Behan. Rinne sé tagairt do Chontae Liatroma agus dúirt gur mór an trua é go bhfuil an contae sin fágtha as an áireamh agus nach bhfuil sé ar a gcumas Teachta Dála dá gcuid féin a thoghadh. Maidir le mo chontae féin, Tír Chonaill, roinnt blianta ó shin bhí mo dháilceantar féin, Tír Chonaill Thiar-Theas, istigh le tuaisceart Liatroma. Chinntigh sin go raibh Teachta Dála ag Contae Liatroma san am sin, cé go raibh sé ina dhá leath. Níl a fhios agam conas is féidir an fhadhb sin a réiteach. Go dtí go mbeidh Teachta Dála dá gcuid féin acu, is cinnte go mbeidh cúis ghearáin acu.

Is maith an rud é go bhfuil coimisiún neamhspleách againn. Ba mhaith liom tréaslú leis na daoine atá ar an gcoimisiún, Cléireach an Tí seo, Ciarán Ó Cochláin; Cléireach an tSeanaid; Deirdre Lane, Rúnaí Ginearálta na Roinne, Geraldine Tallon; agus an Ombudsman, Emily O'Reilly, a shuí i nGailearaí na Nuachtóirí sa Teach seo go mion agus go minic sna blianta atá thart. Bhí an gcoimisiún faoi chathaoirleachas an Bhreithimh Iarfhlaith O'Neill. Téann an bpróiseas sin siar go dtí 1980. Is cuimhin liom go raibh ar an Rialtas na teorainneacha a réiteach roimhe sin. Go minic, bhí ar an Aire é sin a dhéanamh. I 1969, cheap an tAire, Kevin Boland — go ndéanfaidh Dia trócaire air — go raibh na teorainneacha socraithe i gceart aige. Tá sé deacair an dallamullóg a chur ar na daoine, áfach. Bhí athrú Rialtais sa tír seo i 1973, d'ainneoin an aistriú a bhí déanta ar na teorainneacha. Rinne an Rialtas a bhí ann idir 1973 agus 1977 an botún céanna. D'athraigh an tAire Rialtais Áitiúil a bhí ann ag an am, Jim Tully, na dáilcheantair arís. Nuair a tháinig an toghchán i 1977, ní raibh puinn tionchar ag na hathruithe ar thoradh an thoghcháin. Ní féidir an dallamullóg a chur ar na daoine — déanfaidh na daoine an rud is mian leo. Tá dul chun cinn mór déanta ó shin i leith. Tá coimisiún neamhspleách againn ón am sin.

We appreciate that there is an independent commission, though it has been a year since its report, which was a year late. I wonder if what we are discussing today and what is embodied in this Bill will be relevant in 2012 as there will be another census in 2011. This remains to be seen.

There are two constituencies in my county and Donegal South-West seems to always gain territory on Donegal North-East. As far as I am concerned, we in Donegal South-West have now gained Lifford, Raphoe, Ballindrait and down as far as St. Johnston to near Manorcunningham. I welcome these areas to Donegal South-West as the changes indicate that the population of Letterkenny has exploded and that my constituency must get more territory to balance this.

I assure people in these places that I will give them the same service and attention that I have given to the rest of south Donegal in the past 27 years.

He is going again, fair play to him.

I appreciate the opportunity to say a few words on the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2008. I am glad I was in the House to hear the profound statements of Deputies Ring and McGinley, both of whom seem to be dealing with their future political prospects. I hope Deputy Flanagan will convey my good wishes to them in that regard.

The Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2008 provides for the revision of Dáil and European Parliament constituencies in accordance with the recommendations of the report of the Constituency Commission which was presented to the Ceann Comhairle in October 2007. It is appropriate to remind ourselves that the Bill also provides for the establishment of future constituency commissions, on publication by the Central Statistics Office, CSO, of its preliminary results in respect of a census of population and for the work of a commission to be completed following the publication of final population data relating to the relevant census.

I have been listening carefully to the debate thus far and it is interesting to hear the different perspectives of colleagues from all sides of the House. This is an important Bill. Opposition colleagues are entitled to make the points they have about the kind of day we are having and the kind of business we should deal with but many of their speeches have been so impressive and pertinent that I wonder why they suggested we should not have this debate. This is a good debate and there will be time for other issues to be raised on other occasions, including this evening.

I had a long discussion today with my colleague, Deputy Michael Mulcahy, who represents Crumlin, where I come from, in Dublin South-Central. We discussed Dáil constituency boundaries. It is right that they form part of this debate but we should also discuss boundaries for the forthcoming local and European elections and the effect they will have. I will take a leaf from Deputy Michael Ring's book and clarify that I will not seek a Fianna Fáil nomination for the European elections next year. I look forward to supporting my Dublin colleague, Eoin Ryan.

The European elections will be very interesting because section 8 of the Bill says it will provide for European Parliament constituencies and the number of members to be elected from Ireland by substituting a new third schedule to the European Parliament Elections Act 1997. In the context of 12 representatives from this country in the European Parliament, this provides for the reduction of one seat in the Dublin constituency and the transfer of the population of counties Longford and Westmeath from the east to the north-west constituency. Deputy Michael Ring referred to this matter so I will not dwell on it.

However, I am interested in Dublin and there is a great deal of disappointment there regarding this matter. Europe is very important to the whole country and I do not want to make a speech that focuses solely on Dublin. Nonetheless, Dublin is the capital city and it is important that it be strongly represented. It is a pity Dublin is to lose a seat but this will make for a competitive election — it is only a little over 250 days away. I wish all of the sitting MEPs in Dublin well, particularly Eoin Ryan. There is a debate to be had on the level of representation and the reduction in seats will be of concern to people. I find that as I go about my business in Dublin people are beginning to talk about the European and local elections. This debate will become more relevant as the elections approach. We should, therefore, look at it in the context of this Bill.

I was a little older than some when I was first elected to the local authority in Dublin in 1991. The local authority was subsequently divided and South Dublin County Council was founded in 1994. I remained a member of the local authority until after a Dáil election, when I stood down in favour of a colleague. I have been lucky in my Dáil career because my constituency is fairly well formed. Deputy Ring spoke of having to travel 70 or 80 miles and I know many colleagues, including those in the House at the moment, share that difficulty. However, I find that, as a Dublin-based TD who lives only eight miles from the city centre, I experience other challenges. My challenges are different from those facing colleagues who must travel 70 or 80 miles to attend meetings but sometimes it can be just as difficult getting around a densely populated urban setting such as Dublin South-West. I do not want to seem like a martyr; I am merely saying that there are other challenges that face urban-based Deputies. There are still problems but I have been lucky in how my constituency has been formed.

I listened carefully to Deputy Joe Behan as he spoke from a Wicklow perspective. I reminded him that when I first moved to Tallaght with an employer in 1969 it was part of the Dublin South constituency. I inform my Opposition colleagues that in those days there were three Fine Gael TDs there, including a good man, Richard Burke. I mention him because he was very good to me and was a fine EU Commissioner and Minister for Education. When I first attended the Dáil as a Deputy in 2002 he happened to be here, greeted me and brought me for lunch. I always remember him and the courtesy he extended me when I did not even know my way around the building.

In 1977 the new mid-county constituency was founded and the three Deputies elected were Seán Walsh and Síle de Valera for Fianna Fáil and Larry McMahon for Fine Gael. In those days the constituency stretched from Rathfarnham, through parts of Templeogue, into Tallaght and out to Blessington. Quite a few people who were originally from my constituency have moved to Blessington and any Deputies for Dublin South-West will attest that we still receive calls from Blessington. I do not say this to upset my Wicklow colleagues. To put things in perspective, places like Blessington are closer to Tallaght than to Bray. I do not mean to put pressure on my Wicklow colleagues but this illustrates that Constituency Commission reports do not always reach conclusions that everyone can understand. The people I meet at front doors certainly do not understand the decisions in this regard.

When I was first elected in 2002 parts of Firhouse had been taken from Dublin South and joined Tallaght, Templeogue and parts of Terenure in Dublin South-West. It is interesting that the subsequent Constituency Commission report referred to these boundaries, particularly on the M50 side. It observed that the M50 would act as a natural boundary for Dublin South-West. However, the commission did not follow through on this nor does the latest report. Many Members travel in that direction on their way home, to the south in particular, and Dublin South-West stretches from Walkinstown, through parts of Terenure and Templeogue, on to Firhouse and into Bohernabreena. It extends across the mountain into parts of Brittas and back down into Tallaght and the Naas Road acts as a boundary.

While it is for other people to make decisions on this issue, I often drive out of Tallaght heading for Brittas or County Wicklow and pass houses that are located in the Dublin Mid-West constituency, which forms part of Lucan. Brittas itself is divided, as parts of it lie within Dublin South-West while the remainder is represented by my colleagues in Dublin Mid-West. One wonders how such decisions about the boundaries are taken.

I put this in the context of listening to colleagues discussing the changes within counties Kerry or Limerick or, as did Deputy Michael Kennedy, about north Dublin. Clearly, the Constituency Commission has thrown up different kinds of problems for them than it has for me. However, although my country-based colleagues may not greatly appreciate it, this throws up challenges for parts of my constituency. It throws up confusion for some constituents who are unsure exactly where is the boundary or what constituency they are in. This presents a challenge for all Members and it is right to say this during a debate on the Constituency Commission's report. I repeat that I consider my Dáil boundary to be reasonable. However, given population changes and with further development, certainly in west Tallaght, Ballycullen and elsewhere, future boundary commissions, perhaps even the next one, may make some decisions in that regard, as well as making some significant changes.

I also wish to speak about significant changes in the context of the forthcoming local elections, which are due to be held next June and which will be challenging in political terms. I already have made the point that I was proud to be a member of the local authority from 1991. When I was first selected, I represented Tallaght-Rathcoole. When I was re-elected in 1999, I represented Tallaght Central. Those Members who are familiar with Tallaght know that at present, there are ten seats in two electoral areas in Tallaght, namely, Tallaght South and Tallaght Central. The proposals from the Constituency Commission on the local elections will change them into two separate new constituencies, called Tallaght South and Tallaght Central, which are five-seaters and six-seaters, respectively.

Tallaght Central stretches almost from the County Kildare border at Old Kingswood on the Naas Road, through the Tallaght west estates, on into Springfield where I live, down through parts of Tallaght towards what is understood at present to be the Terenure electoral area. As Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh will understand, it then continues down Wainsfort Road into Fortfield and people who are represented by Deputy Ó Snodaigh and other colleagues. When knocking on doors in such areas, Deputy Ó Snodaigh will be telling people they are in Tallaght Central. The Constituency Commission has thrown up the kind of challenge that has nothing to do with community development because local authority boundaries, like any boundary, should have some meaning. While I do not wish to be controversial by talking about parts of Dublin South-Central, colleagues from all parties will be obliged to stretch themselves in that fashion.

I have been surprised there has not been a reaction thus far from the communities to calling such a huge electoral area Tallaght Central. It will cause problems for colleagues and while I will not predict the outcome of the elections, it is a six-seater and it will be interesting to learn how it will work out. Such a constituency will give rise to challenges about how many seats will be won at one end of it, in this case Tallaght, and the other. As it breaches Dáil constituency boundaries, it will make for quite a challenge and debate. I have been surprised there has not been more community reaction. As someone who came from a strong community background and who strongly believes in representing local people on local issues, the work should be about ensuring proper community development and cohesion. Everyone has difficulties and problems when representing different communities. This certainly is the case in my constituency. However, I believe the new Tallaght Central electoral area that has been thrown up by the Constituency Commission will be particularly difficult and it will be interesting to learn how it works out.

While people may think politicians do not look forward to elections, they always are interesting and demanding. Many of my colleagues already are counting off the 250-odd days to the election and are looking forward to them.

They have nothing else to do.

While it had been my intention to speak on this issue before it was raised by Deputy Ring, he made an important point regarding the work of local authorities in respect of future elections. There have been great debates previously on the register of electors and the manner in which it is dealt with. In common with all Members, not a day passes in which I do not receive a call to the effect that I have written to someone who has moved on or, unfortunately, has died. It happens to all Members and always is upsetting. However, for all those who work from the registers and try to make sense of them while simultaneously trying to interpret them from a perspective of local knowledge, there always are times when people will be upset because one has written to them, called on them or whatever. My father, who was living in Kilnamanagh, Tallaght at the time of his death, has been dead for 12 years and my sister still receives occasional letters addressed to him for all sorts of reasons, although he has been off the register for a considerable time.

Although this happens, I believe the register of electors still is seriously flawed. This does not simply pertain to Tallaght, Dublin South-West or south County Dublin because I listen to colleagues on all sides who make exactly the same point. I am sure the Ministers of State who are present, Deputies Máire Hoctor and Tony Killeen, understand the same issues. It is important to establish that something must be done in this regard. In recent years, the issue has come up on a regular basis and it certainly arises when elections approach. Although Members hold debates and discuss how the registers will be organised, problems remain. I glanced at the Dublin South-West register over the weekend and even with my limited knowledge, found people who no longer are at the addresses provided and who, for one reason or other, no longer seek their vote there. Together with other colleagues, I would be interested to know the extent of the problem and what will be done about it.

While I apologise for mentioning Deputy Ring so frequently, he referred to one solution to deal with this issue. While I always have taken the view the local authority should be in the best position to deal with the issues because it is on the ground, to an extent this does not work. Last time, many attempts were made nationwide to tidy up the register and to create a situation whereby people who did not inform the local authority somehow found themselves off the register. People, not simply in my community, who had been on the register for all their lives suddenly found themselves going to the polling station only to discover they were not on the register.

While I do not wish to say too much about this case, during the vote on the Lisbon treaty I spoke to a local bishop who did not get a vote. As a local bishop, he is well known. However, he went to his polling station, produced his identification and was not given his ballot. I cannot understand how this can happen. It emphasises the point made by me and by Members on all sides that the register of electors needs attention. Members keep talking about it and demanding action. As day follows night, next June and July colleagues will be here making the point that constituents went to a polling station but could not vote. It is relevant to this business at a time when we are talking strongly about promoting voting in all areas. Parts of my constituency of Dublin South-West have particular challenges with regard to getting people out to vote and I spend much time, as other colleagues do, trying to get the message across to groups such as secondary school pupils about the importance of voting.

I have always taken the view that citizenship is the more important issue. If one is to look for votes, they will certainly not come about if people are not registered or not coming out to vote. We all have a role to play in that regard and we must keep to getting that message across. To be parochial, we have a local organisation in Tallaght with An Cosán, of which I am sure many Deputies have heard. It engaged with the four local Deputies — Deputies Conor Lenihan, Brian Hayes, Pat Rabbitte and myself — at the last election and we helped promote a project to get people registered and interested in voting. It is important we do so.

I know other colleagues have different views about the kind of day we have had in the Dáil. I am very happy we are back. My young granddaughter, Heather, told me this morning that she had heard adults saying I was back in work. I had to gently correct her and say all Deputies had been working away throughout the summer, apart from a short break. Whatever the kind of agenda we have today, the business before us is important and I look forward to the passage of this Bill. I wish the Minister well as he goes about his business and thank the Acting Chairman for his courtesy.

I wish to share time with Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

This Bill will pass, as the previous speaker has stated, but I am not certain at this stage that it should. We all believe the establishment of an independent commission to consider boundary revisions because of shifts in population, such as increases or decreases, was a very good idea. We all have an interest in the democratic process but those of us with a specific personal interest should never be part of the boundary process. Everyone would agree that the independence of the commission is vital.

Being independent does not make it infallible, although some of the lads behind me might not think that true. I know two of the people on this commission. Despite the fact that the people are very eminent, well read and versed in politics, what they have done in redrawing in this case makes no sense in many areas.

I will speak about my own constituency as that is the place we all know best. When it was last redrawn, Cork North-Central went down to four seats for all sorts of reasons. I take the view in life that one takes the hand that is dealt. It went to four seats because a five-seater constituency could not be sustained due to population shift.

This shift is explained away very easily as the type of infrastructural development which took place on the south side of Cork city was not matched by the same type of infrastructure and development on the north side. On the south side there are ring roads, colleges, university hospitals, CITs etc., and with regard to the north side, it would not take me too long to list what we do not have. As a result of the uneven development of the city, the population made a clear shift and the extra seat could not be sustained.

The general election before last, we were dealing with people out as far as St. Finbarr's Hospital. Anybody who knows Cork city would realise that was an unnatural division. We were so deep into Cork South-Central in order to take chunks of population to shore up the five-seater as to be unreasonable. People rightly asked why we were out there as we could not possibly represent them. It was too far away.

We got a new commission and the least we can expect from a commission sitting to redraw boundaries is that it has a knowledge of the country's geography. Cork North-Central now runs from the north channel of the Lee to the River Blackwater, with Dripsey on the one hand and Mallow on the other. It came home to me very forcibly at that stage. The people are all lovely and have welcomed us with open arms. They are glad to have people representing them and they are the same as people everywhere in the world who want representation. That is not the difficulty.

The difficulty is that at 11.10 p.m one night I found myself leaving Mallow to drive to Cork city. It is not a two hour drive by any stretch of the imagination but takes approximately half an hour. The notion that a constituency would be redrawn in this way clearly comes from people who did not know the area. Some 14,000 people in Limerick now find themselves in Kerry, so there is clearly no understanding of the area or geography involved. At the same time, people in the constituency of the Ceann Comhairle find that because he will be automatically elected next time, their constituency essentially becomes a two-seater.

There are all sorts of issues that we must deal with. It is incredible the way constituencies have been redrawn. Towns have been split down the middle. I wonder how it was done. Did these people sit down with maps and a biro, taking sections and splitting the country up as best they could? It looks like this in some cases. We cannot say that because we must come in and state the independent commission is a sacred cow that cannot be touched. Being independent does not make it infallible.

As a party we suggest that the commission publish a preliminary review, which would be put to public consultation in order that people with an interest could make submissions. Obvious issues, such as 14,000 people from Limerick going to Kerry, could be stopped. We are serious about proportional representation because the people of this country twice voted for it in referenda, so we must take a very serious look at increasing the sizes of constituencies. Proportional representation is not served by a two-seat constituency. All figures show that the bigger a constituency and the more seats involved, the more true a reflection of proportional representation one gets. That is what we should be looking at.

The terms of reference given to the commission did not help so we must alter them. The idea that we can continue to draw a line on a map just because it fits the population size is wrong. There are natural boundaries in this country which are not just geographical. They deal with population and the type of area, as well as everything else. The commission must begin considering them.

Why must we wait for the definitive census and what is stopping the commission from sitting as soon as preliminary figures are published? There is little between the two figures, barring the people who realise they are not on the register and who register themselves. This would give the commission time to publish preliminary findings and allow people to comment. The commission does not have to alter its findings because people disagree but the obvious issues could be altered. The people sitting on the commission are sensible and will recognise when things are not right.

There is so much in this Bill and yet a full and frank debate is very difficult because politicians are having it but are not supposed to interfere. Clearly, some parts need to be changed. While it is right to have an independent Constituency Commission, we must also correct wrongs where they occur.

Deputy O'Connor is correct that the voting register is a mess. We have not invested sufficient money in gathering the necessary information. Irrespective of our political views or the party to which we belong, it is essential that those who wish to vote are able to do so when they go to a polling station. It is vital, therefore, that we gather the information needed to make democracy work. When this information is collated, either by census or other means, and given to others to complete a task on our behalf, those individuals or bodies should not be above criticism.

The Bill includes blatant anomalies but it will be passed because people — correctly — do not want to interfere with the independence of the Constituency Commission. It has been argued that constituency boundaries will be redrawn again before the next general election because a census is due before the election. In that case, surely we should take our time and modify the terms of reference of the Constituency Commission to enable it to conduct its business properly.

On Deputy Kathleen Lynch's final point, even at this late stage we have an opportunity to ensure the next Constituency Commission has different terms of reference. We need to amend the Electoral Act 1997 to ensure the commission has greater scope when examining constituency boundaries. The recommendations of the Constituency Commission breach the terms of reference set out in the 1997 Act.

I recall the decision to move my area of Ballyfermot from Dublin West to the Dublin Central constituency, despite the fact that the district was separated from the constituency by a geographical boundary — the River Liffey — which should not have been breached. This Constituency Commission has also proposed major changes which are contrary to section 6(2)(c) of the Electoral Act 1997, which states, “the breaching of county boundaries shall be avoided as far as practicable”. The commission did not properly consider this requirement as its proposals for some constituencies are illogical.

It is possible that the tendency of previous boundary commissions to increase the number of three and four-seat constituencies drove the deliberations of this Constituency Commission, which chose not to increase the number of five-seat constituencies. The provision in the Electoral Act precluding the establishment of six, seven, eight or nine-seat constituencies should be examined on Committee Stage.

The PR system of the single transferable vote, which was used in the election to the first Dáil, has been used for the past 90 years. General elections held after the Civil War included constituencies with six, seven and eight Deputies and resulted in a wide variety of views being represented in the House. In one of the two general elections held in 1927, candidates from seven different parties were returned to the House, including Jim Larkin of the Irish Workers League and 12 Independent Deputies. The latter differed from the current body of Independent Deputies in that they were Unionists or former members of the old Irish Party. This was good for democracy, particularly given that the purpose of the PR system is to reflect diverse views.

If we continue to move towards three-seat constituencies or a first past the post system, as the Fianna Fáil Party sought in the past but was prevented from doing by the people in a vote, it will be bad for democracy. We are trying to encourage people to participate in the electoral process but continually changing constituency boundaries causes confusion and undermines voters' identification and affinity with their constituency.

The changes to the Kerry North and Limerick West constituencies and to counties Tipperary, Offaly, Louth, Meath and Leitrim could have been avoided if the Constituency Commission had greater scope to act. It chose to cannibalise County Limerick by merging part of west Limerick, from where my mother comes, with Kerry North, despite there being no affinity between Abbeyfeale and Tralee. In the case of County Leitrim, a small county has been cannibalised when it would not be a major task to produce a realistic solution which did not divide the county between constituencies. If we had one, two or three counties in one constituency, it would be possible to maintain county identities which have developed over centuries, as we saw last weekend in Croke Park. Who would the constituents of the new Kerry-Limerick constituency cheer for if both counties ended up in an all-Ireland final?

It is still possible to resolve these problems. While I accept the independence of the Constituency Commission and I am aware of the practice in the House of putting through its recommendations unchanged or on the nod, as it were, there is nothing to prevent the House from asking the commission to review its findings. If, having done so, it decides the recommendations should proceed, it would be possible to change its terms of reference.

The transfer of Deelis, Kilgobban, Knockglass and certain Castleisland districts to Kerry South distorts the traditional integrity of the Kerry North constituency and patterns of local representation. Other Deputies will be in a better position to detail the history of the area but having lived for some time in Corca Duibhne, where I spent a number of months on several occasions, there is no logic in having the area in the Kerry South constituency. Corca Duibhne has always been regarded by local people and visitors to the area as part of north Kerry. If boundary changes are to be made, it would be logical to include Corca Duibhne with its natural hinterland and the central town of Tralee.

On the recommendations to break up counties, the question must be posed as to whether the people of County Leitrim or the part of County Limerick included in the revised Kerry North constituency will ever have a chance to elect a representative from their county to the Dáil. Given the small number of electors from west Limerick in the proposed new constituency, I foresee that the area will not be represented by a local person unless an all-for-one candidate manages to garner 100% of local votes. It may be that the constituency will be discriminated against or will prove to be an afterthought. I hope that will not be the case. I intend no slight on people who will put themselves forward as candidates in the constituency in the future or on those who are incumbent there at present.

To return to the break up of the counties, the views I have already outlined also apply in respect of the transfer of south Offaly into Tipperary North, the position regarding north Meath and the division and transfer of the Leitrim constituency into two new constituencies, Sligo-North Leitrim and Roscommon-South Leitrim. Anyone who lives outside County Leitrim might be of the view that this is a trivial matter. However, that is not the opinion of those who reside there. There are those of the view that this will further disadvantage what is already one of the most disadvantaged regions in the country.

We need to bring about change. As is the case with all legislation that comes before the House, Members have an opportunity to instigate such change in the context of this Bill. We have been presented with the opportunity to call a halt to something that is wrong. The Bill should be changed and the commission should be given greater scope to ensure that additional seats will be created in various constituencies in the future. We must ensure that what we do in respect of this matter reflects the original idea behind the PR-STV system that was introduced to great effect some 90 years ago. That would be the best way to commemorate or celebrate what was envisaged by an chéad Dáil as the correct electoral system for Ireland. We must ensure that there is better representation for the public in order to break down the disconnect that exists between the people and what happens in this Chamber. The more local people that are elected, the greater will be the understanding of what happens here.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Bill, which, in its own way, is controversial. Anyone who has ever stood for election is aware of the fragile nature of people's votes and how difficult it is to encourage people to vote. Anything that interferes with people's ability, right or privilege to vote must be treated warily.

I have considered the detail of the Bill, the purpose of which is to revise constituencies, provide for the number of members to be elected for those constituencies and revise the procedures to be followed by future constituency commissions and also those relating to the nomination of non-party candidates. The Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2008 aims to modernise an electoral law which is extremely complicated and update it in light of changes in population demographics. Parts 2 and 3 deal with the revision of Dáil and European Parliament constituencies following the implementation of the recommendations contained in the Constituency Commission's report on such constituencies in 2007.

The commission was established to report on the constituencies in light of issues relating to representation that were illustrated in the 2006 census. The information collated in a census is extremely important when it comes to deciding how our democracy will operate into the future.

Part 4 of the Bill outlines procedures to be followed by the Constituency Commission. The main consequence of the provisions it contains will be that future commissions will be established on the publication by the Central Statistics Office of its interim findings. Prior to the most recent general election, we debated whether the commission would be capable of reporting on such preliminary findings. Collating and assimilating the level of information garnered in a census is a complicated business. The changes being introduced in the Bill will enable the existing commission and those that will succeed it — if they are put in place — to deal with the complicated issue of deciding upon constituency boundaries and the number of seats in each constituency.

The Bill also provides two alternative procedures for the nomination of non-party candidates at European Parliament and local elections. These procedures will be in line with those put in place in respect of Dáil elections in the Electoral (Amendment) Act 2007. The provisions in this regard are outlined in Parts 5 and 6 of the Bill.

The dual system being introduced in the Bill, whereby people may obtain assents or put forward deposits, is the fairest and most equitable method of dealing with this issue. Under the Bill, 60 assentors will be required in respect of a European Parliament election and 15 will be needed for a local election. The level of deposit required — €1,800 for a European Parliament election and €100 for other elections — is reasonable. I am glad this system is being put in place.

Under the Bill, total Dáil membership will remain at 166 across 43 constituencies. A major debate took place in the past on whether there should be an increase in the number of Members of this House. In my opinion, the decision that has been taken in this regard is correct. As previous speakers stated, the division, etc., of constituencies has had a negative effect on long-serving public representatives. The sad aspect of this is that it affects the people those individuals represent. Confusion can arise in respect of changes to boundaries, particularly when these cross county or parish lines, and can lead to a lack of representation, which proved to be the case in some recent instances.

The purpose of the changes is to ensure, across the State, equality of representation in the Dáil and at the European Parliament. The 2006 census illustrated the disproportionality in certain constituencies. As a result of recent changes in population, some constituencies are either over-represented or under-represented. While my constituency, Dublin Central, has remained unchanged, I acknowledge that changes in other constituencies have given rise to problems. Previous speakers referred to the constituencies that have been affected. The most obvious is Leitrim, a small county that is under-represented. Despite receiving almost 200 submissions on the issue, the commission has almost guaranteed that there will be no Deputy from Leitrim in the House. Dublin North, which is adjacent to my constituency, is massively under-represented but has remained as a four-seater. These issues must be considered and addressed in due course.

Although my constituency has not changed on this occasion, I am aware of the implications of changes such as those to which I refer. Prior to the 1997 general election, my constituency, Dublin Central, was altered such that it spanned what is probably the most natural boundary in the country, namely, the River Liffey, and took in areas of the southside of the city that had no relevance to or connection with those on the northside. The commission appointed before the 2002 election decided to correct the mistake made by its predecessor, which gave rise to serious consequences and a great deal of confusion among constituents regarding by whom they were represented. It is difficult enough to encourage people to vote in the first instance. If confusion such as that to which I refer is created prior to and during an election campaign, it gives rise to extreme difficulties. As a result, people lose out and the level of representation they enjoy can deteriorate.

Debate adjourned.
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