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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 13 May 2010

Vol. 709 No. 1

Order of Business (Resumed)

On a point of order, I am at a loss to know whether the Tánaiste is aware of the procedures in the aftermath of the passage of the second Lisbon treaty in regard to the now greater powers. This is relevant.

I will not allow the Deputy to raise a point of order to initiate a Second Stage contribution on this issue.

Ceann Comhairle, you do not have the right to disallow it.

I certainly have the right to disallow it.

It is relevant to the discussion now taking place. Is the Ceann Comhairle aware of the powers now in the hands of national parliaments with regard to European legislation and agreements and the means that have been made——

This is not a point of order.

Will the Ceann Comhairle allow me finish?

The Deputy will be well able to make this point when we have the discussion next week.

No, I am sorry. This predates all else. May I finish mysentence?

The Deputy can make the point in the context of the discussion when it arises next week or whenever.

I am sorry, Ceann Comhairle, this is not within your power to give or to withhold. It is simply a fact of life.

I am telling the Deputy it is not a point of order and I am not allowing him to continue with the point of order.

This is in order. National Parliaments throughout the European Union have specific powers given to them in the aftermath of the Lisbon treaty. Does the Ceann Comhairle agree?

We terminated the discussion on this matter earlier. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat, please.

Does the Ceann Comhairle agree?

That is not a relevant question for the Chair. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. I will have to suspend the House if the Deputy does not resume his seat. I do not wish to do so. The Deputy is spreading disorder in the Chamber which I cannot allow.

I am asking the Ceann Comhairle if he is aware of it.

Deputy Durkan will resume his seat. If he does not, I will be forced to suspend the sitting.

Sitting suspended at 11.10 a.m. and resumed at 11.20 a.m.

We will resume on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Jimmy Deenihan.

I do not wish to be disorderly but will the Ceann Comhairle clarify finally for the House——

It is inappropriate for the Deputy to ask such questions and I am informing him now that I am not going to allow it. The Deputy is completely out of order.

If the Ceann Comhairle wishes to stifle the debate, I remind him there are provisions approved by a referendum of the people——

There are no provisions to have a debate on this matter on the Order of Business and I have informed several Members of this.

Approval was given to procedure which is now being ignored.

Will the Deputy resume his seat?

I will resume my seat.

Will the Deputy resume his seat now?

Is the Ceann Comhairle saying there is no obligation to answer my question?

The Deputy should resume his seat. He is completely out of order and I call on him to resume his seat.

I am not out of order. The Ceann Comhairle is bringing the House into disrepute and ignoring the House and I intend to leave in protest.

Yes. We will move on with the Order of Business. I call Deputy Jimmy Deenihan.

The point Deputy Durkan was making is relevant. A request was made for a debate in the House in respect of the document that has come from the Commission. It is reasonable for the Chief Whip to indicate that the Whips will meet and seek agreement. As I understand it, as Tuesday and Wednesday are devoted to the bilateral legislation in respect of the Greek bailout there would then be——

I advise the Deputy that the Tánaiste has indicated that the Whips will meet and discuss the matter in the context of discussing next week's business. It is not a point of order. The Deputy should resume his seat.

I will try to be helpful.

The relevant point is that in the context of the Lisbon treaty there is an onus on us to ensure that matters emanating from the Commission are debated in the Chamber.

I am not disputing the merits of the point made but I advise the Deputy that the Tánaiste indicated to the House earlier that the Whips would meet to discuss next week's business and all these points would be considered in that context. That is my interpretation of what she said.

She did not say that.

The Tánaiste did not say anything about today. She did not say that.

The Deputy should resume his seat, please.

Will the Ceann Comhairle call on the Tánaiste to say that?

I call Deputy Kenny.

I will be helpful.

Can such an accommodation be arranged by the Whips today?

May we have the floor for Deputy Enda Kenny, please?

I will be helpful to the Ceann Comhairle. The Whips meeting is a normal and formal meeting and the Government determines the business despite requests from Fine Gael, the Labour Party, Deputy Ó Caoláin or any other party. Deputy Burton referred to the fact that the Commission is publishing a document. Her question was whether that document would be laid before the House for discussion. The answer to that should be "Yes". That is not a matter for discussion among the Whips. It is a matter about which the deputy Head of Government should be able to say "Yes, of course this will come before the House to be discussed".

I am sure that matter can be discussed at the Whips meeting.

No. That is the whole point.

It is not for discussion at the Whips meeting.

That is not relevant to the Whips.

It is not relevant for the Whips.

I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

That is not relevant to the Whips meeting.

They would be suspended for that.

It is a formal Commission document. The only request Deputy Burton made was whether it would be laid before the House. Yes or no?

Since I have been called to speak, my remarks are in the same vein and I make exactly the same point. It is important to factor in that the Whips met yesterday evening and determined the process of what is to be addressed during the coming days and into next week. There is no scheduled meeting of the Whips until next Wednesday night. Is that not the case?

It is critically important in terms of scheduling this particular debate that the Whips meet now to make the arrangements for time. I agree with Deputy Kenny that the Tánaiste has a responsibility to confirm that the debate Opposition voices have sought will be accommodated by Government.

The Tánaiste does not know.

We cannot have a detailed discussion on the matter at this stage.

That is the way it should be. The Tánaiste should indicate "Yes" and the Chief Whip should indicate a willingness to meet the Opposition Whips today to include this vital discussion in next week's Order of Business.

The Government has been trying to facilitate as much discussion as humanly possible.

That is not the case here.

The Tánaiste is in possession.

This Order of Business is turning into a farce and many of us are far too busy to allow that to happen.

That is because the Tánaiste is not answering the question.

Whose fault is that?

In normal circumstances, I try to facilitate in the discussions after the Order of Business if it is appropriate, conceivable or available to the House to facilitate debate for next week, even though the decisions for next week have more or less been finalised by the Whips. If I am pursued further, I will answer in the negative. I will allow the Whip to meet the relevant——

A Deputy

Will there be a change to the arrangements?

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste will go up in flames next.

I am sorry. I am entitled to make decisions on this side of the House as Deputies across the floor are trying to purport to make decisions on me. The situation is that I will ask the Whips to consider whether this is appropriate and can be facilitated.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste without interruption, please.

A considerable amount of legislation will be taken next week by the Minister for Finance.

The Tánaiste should note there are seven days in a week.

It is on this basis that the Government Chief Whip and I will consult and we will then discuss the matter with the Whips opposite, if it can be accommodated.

That is fine. We are moving on.

Otherwise, I will not facilitate it.

Is that today?

We have the point clarified. We are moving on. I call Deputy Jimmy Deenihan.

I have other matters to put on the Order of Business.

We will call the Deputy later.

The Ceann Comhairle allowed Deputy Kenny to raise four items on the Order of Business.

Deputy, for goodness' sake.

A Deputy

It is victimisation.

Equality is a hallmark of the House.

Okay. I indicated I would call the Deputy but there is a sequence to these matters.

I simply seek the same facilitation from the good Ceann Comhairle as he has given to others.

Very well, let us hear the query.

I thank the Ceann Comhairle. I mark today as the day in which the Government took a further stake in Allied Irish Banks. It is somewhat similar to the term "Sunningdale for slow learners" as applied to the Good Friday Agreement. Some one and a half years after the bank guarantee, finally the Government is getting around to taking in effect a majority stake in Allied Irish Banks. In that context and given its enhanced stakeholding in the bank, will the Tánaiste indicate the arrangements the Government is making to ensure credit flows to ordinary businesses?

The Deputy must find another way to raise this. It is a question more appropriate to the line Minister.

At the moment, not one bob is coming out of any of the banks to businesses up and down the country. The Government is now the largest shareholder in Allied Irish Banks.

We had the Central Bank Bill here for a significant period and that question could have been asked in that context.

In effect, it is the dominant, majority shareholder in Allied Irish Banks.

Deputy, please.

The Tánaiste referred already to the AGM of Irish Nationwide yesterday. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance in particular have indicated at various times that the former chief executive and chairman would return a small amount, €1 million, of his bonus to the building society such that it might go to reduce the debts.

This question is more appropriate to the line Minister, not on the Order of Business.

The Tánaiste read from a document about the AGM of Irish Nationwide yesterday.

This is not promised business.

I call on her to read through the rest of the document. Are taxpayers likely——

The Order of Business is about promised business in the House and short commentary and remarks about relevant issue of the day but it is not about this matter. The Deputy must find another way to raise it.

Are taxpayers likely——

I ask the Deputy for her co-operation or I will have to suspend the House yet again, which I have no wish to do. I call again for the Deputy's co-operation.

Will the Tánaiste indicate if there is any sign of the €1 million due from Mr. Fingleton?

We are on the Order of Business. I ask for the Deputy's co-operation, please.

Is there any sign of the €1 million? Will the Tánaiste read through the rest of the notes? Is it in the post?

I ask for the Deputy's co-operation.

Is the cheque in the post?

In view of the disturbances that took place before the Kildare Street gate on Tuesday evening, which to date have not been mentioned in the House, will the Tánaiste indicate if the Government will now review security arrangements for the House? The number of ushers attending to the House has already been reduced by seven and will be reduced by ten by the end of the year. Army numbers in attendance have also been depleted, although the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave an indication today that he will review that.

I must interrupt the Deputy.

This matter is being reviewed by the management in consultation with the Garda. The latter has been asked to furnish a report, and whatever action is necessary on foot of that will be taken.

I thank the Chair. I saw the action taken by the Garda and by the ushers who were courageous in fairly trying circumstances. We should at least recognise that.

I accept that.

They are good defenders, like the Ceann Comhairle.

I hope the Tánaiste will be positive in her response to the matter I am raising. A very serious issue arose at a meeting of Kerry County Council last Friday.

This is not an extension of Kerry County Council; it is Dáil Éireann.

Absolutely not.

Kerry County Council got many of us in here.

The Deputy may raise such issues via a parliamentary question or as an Adjournment matter.

I tried to raise this matter twice on the Adjournment but was denied by the Ceann Comhairle.

I advise the Deputy to persist in seeking to raise the matter on the Adjournment. I assure him it will be considered.

We all have our limits. Lands are currently being dezoned. Last Friday, the local authority members——

This is entirely inappropriate for the Order of Business. The Deputy must find another way to raise the matter.

I cannot raise it between now and next Monday given that the Chair did not allow me to raise it on the Adjournment.

There are many ways to raise the issue.

The Ceann Comhairle did not allow me to raise it on two occasions this week. I am doing my best.

I ask the Deputy to stop causing disorder in the House and to resume his seat.

I wish to hear the Tánaiste's response. It is a very serious matter.

Will the Deputy resume his seat?

Will the Chair let Deputy Sheahan raise this matter on Tuesday night?

I cannot allow the Deputy to raise this matter on the Order of Business. I have asked him to resume his seat.

It is a serious matter. Local authority members are in danger of being sued by the people whose land they are——

It is inappropriate to raise this matter on the Order of Business. The Deputy should submit it for consideration on the Adjournment or submit a parliamentary question.

Will the line Minister intervene? The councillors are doing this under duress because they are afraid of what will happen.

Deputy Sheahan must resume his seat.

Recent statistics indicate that the incidence of skin cancer is increasing in the State. When will the urgently needed public health (sunbeds) Bill be published? It was promised last year by the Minister for Health and Children but there is no indication as to when it will come before the House.

The Bill is especially for redheads.

I am trying to refrain from a retort for which I would be sure to be crucified in the newspapers. There are many young people in the Gallery today, and this is a particularly serious issue for them. As the Deputy observed, there has been an increase in the incidence of melanoma. I raised this matter personally with the line Minister and have asked her to expedite the legislation, as it is the wish of the House that this be done.

What did she say?

She said it will be published as soon as possible, once all the necessary consultations have taken place.

Well done to the Tánaiste for exerting her authority over the Minister for Health and Children.

A new report by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Geological Survey of Ireland identifies Tynagh Mines in Loughrea, County Galway, as the most hazardous abandoned mine site in the country. It has been classified by the European Commission as——

That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

It is a very serious matter.

Yes, but there are other ways to raise it.

It is in the Ceann Comhairle's hands.

Deputy Burke is very experienced and knows what is permitted.

I submitted this matter at the beginning of the week for discussion on the Adjournment, but it has not been accepted. That is why I am taking this opportunity to raise it.

I ask the Deputy to leave it in that domain for the time being.

I will. Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle will offer me some satisfaction on that matter this afternoon. It is important that this is dealt with in the interests of the health of the population of east Galway.

Does the Deputy have a question relevant to the Order of Business?

Last autumn I raised the matter of responsibilities of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food on the issuing of aquaculture licences. Subsequent legislation apportioned that responsibility to the latter Department. However, there are 300 licences, either applications or renewals, pending for up to four years. One applicant in Kinvara, County Galway, has been waiting for five years. The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is not dealing with these applications.

The Deputy will have to pursue this matter by other means.

It is causing great concern to many people who are dependent for their livelihood on that activity. I am asking for clarification as to who will take responsibility for issuing licences.

The Deputy must pursue this matter in another way. It is not relevant to the Order of Business.

In respect of the two items of legislation I wish to raise, it is a shame the Minister for Transport is not in the House. Regarding the merchant shipping (registration of ships) Bill, there is a ridiculous situation in Dundalk where a wholly Irish-owned ship with humanitarian aid for Gaza is being prevented from leaving the port——

This is not appropriate for the Order of Business.

I referred to the legislation. This ship is being prevented from leaving because it has a tricolour painted on its side. That would be covered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995.

The Tánaiste will respond to the question on legislation when the Deputy resumes his seat.

That legislation will be published this year.

My other question relates to the Taxi Regulation Act. Are there proposals to take account of the problems currently facing the industry and the need for changes in the function and remit of the regulator?

Is there promised legislation in this area?

Legislation must take account of the need for a change in terms of VRT exemption for new taxis. There has been a change in regard to the nine-year rule but wheelchair-accessible taxis can be ten years old, which means disabled passengers will be put at risk.

The Deputy's point is well made.

We must ensure that whatever legislation is introduced addresses all these issues. I see the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is in the House. Is there a proposal——

The Deputy has inquired about the legislation covering these issues.

Are there proposals to amend existing legislation dealing with Garda vetting to ensure vetting for taxis is similar to that carried out by the Private Security Authority, which is far more succinct?

Is there promised legislation in this area?

The merchant shipping (registration of ships) Bill and the merchant shipping consolidation Bill will be published this year but there is no date as yet. I am not aware of any proposals for legislation on taxi regulations. The legislation on Garda vetting has been passed.

Before the Dáil today are two orders and one regulation pertaining to the Misuse of Drugs Act relating dealing with the changes in the law on products sold in head shops. As Deputy McGrath pointed out, the owners of these outlets are already finding ways of selling products by use of mobile telephones. When will the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform introduce the relevant legislation? Does the Government envisage that additional legislation will be required to address the issue? We must ensure the Garda has the appropriate resources to tackle this. It is important that the Government responds constantly to changes as they arise in order to protect vulnerable young people in particular.

I accept this is difficult legislation and that it will never be perfect. Will the Minister for Health and Children insist that all products sold in head shops are approved by the Irish Medicines Board and the Food Safety Authority of Ireland? These people will go back to their private, illegal laboratories and create substances not covered by the ban, in which case new legislation will be required. A provision that anything they sell must be passed by the Irish Medicines Board and the Food Safety Authority of Ireland——

Those points can be made when the legislation is brought forward.

But it is important that the opportunity is taken. We want to close these people out of business.

That is the point.

Is Deputy Flanagan dealing with the same matter? No. I am calling him next in any event.

Can we have an answer to the question?

I am sorry — I call the Tánaiste.

The Minister is working on the legislation and hopes to bring it before the House as a matter of urgency and as quickly as possible. Once these substances are banned, they are not only banned in head shops. They are banned on Internet sites — they are banned full stop. They are illegal substances.

Deputy Lynch is right — it is a difficult piece of legislation. We hope it will encompass the fact that once we close one avenue, someone will try to find another. The Minister is working on the legislation to take an overarching perspective on how we can deal with those issues. The Garda is working on that basis. We hope to bring the legislation before the House as soon as possible.

On a point of clarification, the Tánaiste said the substances are banned on the Internet. What did she mean?

We cannot have a mini-Question Time on the Order of Business.

It is just a point of clarification. Do I have the opportunity to raise issues on other legislation now or will the Ceann Comhairle come back to me?

I will come back to the Deputy.

It is now 11.45 a.m. During the past hour and a quarter even the Ceann Comhairle as chairman of the proceedings has exhibited a certain frustration with the procedures and the practices. This is totally unacceptable. The reason is the total failure on the part of Ministers to exercise any form of accountability.

I accept the point. We need to examine the arrangements for the Order of Business.

When Deputy Sheahan made a statement——

The co-operation of Members in the House would be most welcome on the matter.

Deputy Sheahan got a response from the other side of the House——

The Deputy is picking the worst example.

——that this was an extension of Kerry County Council. It is not. It is rather like Ballymagash Urban District Council on the television 30 years ago. It is a disgrace.

Please, Deputy——

I am in here every day, and I am co-operative. Last Tuesday I raised an issue with the Minister for Health and Children regarding her failure to exercise any form of accountability to this House or to these proceedings.

We have a parliamentary Question Time.

The Taoiseach made a statement. Since then——

The Deputy can table questions to any line Minister.

——I have got another sheaf of replies yesterday from the Minister, who invited me to raise those issues with her. As an elected Member of the Dáil——

The Deputy can raise the matter at Question Time.

The Minister will not accept questions. The Ceann Comhairle knows that.

There are other ways of raising the matter, such as the Adjournment Debate.

There is a total failure on the part of Ministers to recognise this House as an assembly of the people.

Deputy, please.

It is a disgrace, day after day.

In light of the discussion we had yesterday in the Committee for Social and Family Affairs regarding the need for changes to back-to-work schemes, when will the Social Welfare Bill be brought before the House so those changes can be made?

There is a Bill before the House regarding the provision of a licence to the conference centre on the quays. I am amazed that that has been arranged so quickly, while the sale of alcohol Bill has been awaited for years.

Is legislation promised in this general area?

Finally, we were told only last week through the media that for the first nine months of last year, 3,300 people were sent to jail for not paying fines. When will the Fines Bill be finalised or brought before the House so people can pay their fines in that way rather than be incarcerated in prison?

The Social Welfare Bill will be brought forward in the current session. The sale of alcohol Bill is a consolidation piece of legislation and is more complex than the legislation we hope to bring to the House this afternoon. On the Fines Bill, the amendments from the Seanad will be here next week.

People suffering from cystic fibrosis have been promised a modern unit in St. Vincent's Hospital, which will include proper rooms.

A question to the Minister would be a help.

Will the Tánaiste ask the Minister what stage that is at? Can she ask the Minister why a patient suffering from cystic fibrosis — I can provide the name — was left on a trolley from five o'clock last Friday evening——

That should be tabled as a parliamentary question, Deputy.

——until Monday evening at five o'clock, with no treatment or physiotherapy? He had to leave the hospital to get enough sleep. It is a serious issue.

We know it is, but there are other ways to raise the issue.

From five o'clock on Friday——

The patient did not know. He had to leave the hospital. A man from Kells, aged 33, had to leave the hospital. I am asking the Tánaiste to ask the Minister for Health at what stage——

I tell the Deputy to resume his seat and pursue the matter with the Minister.

An important item of legislation in section B is the health information Bill. When will it be brought before the House? It is an important and integral part of any national screening or vaccination programme, such as the HPV vaccination, that we have a unique patient identifier. That is part of the Bill, and a lot of things have been held up as a consequence.

The Minister plans to start only a pilot programme of HPV vaccination, involving 21 schools out of more than 500. Would it not be better to wait until September to vaccinate first and second years, so that we get a good outcome?

The Deputy should pursue that by way of a parliamentary question.

I want to inform the House that the Dutch, who do many things very well, took that approach, but they had to abandon it and restart the programme.

My question is addressed to yourself, Sir, as Chairman of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. Like everyone else, I received a letter this morning outlining a further request under the Freedom of Information Act seeking "a breakdown for every Senator and TD of their clock-in records since the new regime came into place earlier this year". This is becoming something of a farce. This has been presented as if this House sits for five days a week, every week. Records have been issued showing that X, Y or Z has achieved 60% or 70% attendance. This is grossly unfair and does grave damage to the image of this House.

Deputy, it is inappropriate to raise the matter at this time.

Will the Ceann Comhairle listen for one second?

I am listening.

You are the chairman of the commission. The request appears very smart referring to "the clock-in records". Clocking-in in my book means clocking in for work. This House sits three days a week, therefore the records disclosed should be the records of those who attended for the three days; that is clocking in. If someone asks for a clocking-in record, deliberately so, give him or her the clock-in record. The Dáil does not sit on a Monday or a Friday. It is all right for people like me who live eight miles from this House — I can call in here every day.

If the Deputy wishes to convey his sentiments on the matter directly to the commission secretariat, he is welcome to do so.

It is grossly unfair to Members of this House who live in Kerry or Donegal and have a constituency office and jobs to do to be expected now to drive up here on a Monday to clock in, drive back and come back down on a Tuesday.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Barrett, it is inappropriate to have a full-scale contribution on that matter at this stage.

This is becoming a farce and I want you, a Cheann Comhairle, as commission chairman, to do something about it and issue proper records if these people are smart enough to seek clock-in records. Will he confirm to me that that will be the case?

Deputy, we have freedom of information legislation which must be respected and if you wish to refer the matter to the commission, please write to it and set out your sentiments in a letter which will be considered by the commission.

That has been done.

Not directly to the commission. Deputy Barrett should write to the secretariat.

No, no. This affects every single Member of this House. I am not trying to be smart. This is giving an improper image of this Parliament, as if people are not attending when Parliament is sitting. We know, as practising politicians — and it does not affect me personally but it is wrong for the image of this House — that people are presenting records in the media which are giving a false impression of what is actually happening.

The issues the Deputy raises will be reviewed by the Minister for Finance but if he wishes to write to the commission, he is welcome to do so.

As chairman of the commission , can the Ceann Comhairle not protect our rights in some way?

I have noted the sentiments expressed by the Deputy. We must move on.

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