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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 26 May 2010

Vol. 710 No. 2

Electoral Representation (Amendment) Bill 2010: Second Stage (Resumed)

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I compliment Fine Gael and Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan, my constituency colleague, on bringing the legislation forward. I read the contribution of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and it was incredibly self-serving. He has gone totally Fianna Fáil native. He stated he was "giving consideration to establishing an electoral commission on a non-statutory basis to report on the electoral reform agenda set out in the renewed programme for Government". I always thought a programme for Government was reasonably specific about what was intended by the partners who put it together but he will only give consideration to the possibility of setting up an electoral commission. That might be on a statutory or non-statutory basis and he will still have to think about all of that. He will then only talk about the agenda and not about the implementation. He certainly has gone native and even Fianna Fáil would admire that powerful kick to touch by the Minister last night. The great green giants of democracy from whom we heard so often on this side of the House will not precipitate a general election. Principles were all right when Green Party Members were in opposition but now that they are in the Fianna Fáil tent, they are like Groucho Marx, as they have access to a different set of principles entirely.

The Bill proposes simply to amend the Electoral Act 1992 in order that by-elections would take place within six months of a vacancy arising, which is a reasonable and modest proposal. It is intolerable that any government should refuse to hold a by-election because it knows it will not win. It is a cynical response from the Government, which has lost direction, leadership and ideas, and which knows it will almost lose its majority if it loses the three by-elections. The only thing on the Government's mind is to avoid the evil day of an election and to creep by all means possible to the magic date of May 2012, which will give it an additional two years in office and allow it to run its full term. However, while that is what the Government is seeking, that does not represent democracy for the people of Dublin South, Waterford and Donegal South-West who have been left without their constitutional entitlement to representation in Dáil Éireann.

It is almost 12 months since the European Parliament elections were held on 5 June 2009, as a result of which Donegal South-West has been without representation in the House. If the Government manages to struggle on to 2012, the people of that constituency will have been without representation in the House for three years while the people of Dublin South and Waterford will have been without the same for almost two and a half years but the Government parties have no intention of budging unless they are forced to do so.

There is a precedent for forcing a Government to budge. In 1993, Dr. John O'Connell resigned his seat in Dublin South-Central and there was no move by the then Government for 14 months to hold a by-election. A student took a High Court action to assert his constitutional entitlement to vote in common law, by statute and under the Constitution. His application was upheld by Mr. Justice Geoghegan who said there was a reasonable case to be answered and that judicial review proceedings should be instituted. The Government moved urgently having seen the writing on the wall and it caved in and conceded the holding of the by-election, which it lost.

However, that is the position we are likely to find ourselves in with the current Government parties. They will not concede unless they are compelled by the Judiciary to do so and that is not satisfactory in a democracy. Given the principle of the separation of powers, the Judiciary should not be responsible for ensuring the Houses of the Oireachtas, which are the central institutions of democracy, make a decision to ensure democracy is upheld and I hope it will not come to that. The Government should accede to the legislation. The decision of Mr. Justice Geoghegan, who now serves on the Supreme Court, has been approved by the eminent constitutional lawyer, Dr. Gerard Hogan, and, therefore, the writing is on the wall for the Government in this respect and it cannot keep the evil day away. I hope this will happen sooner rather than later and judicial review proceedings will not have to be instituted to establish the citizens' right to democracy against the Government's attempt to deny it.

There is an alternative scenario, which I do not greatly favour. Members of the European Parliament are elected in Ireland and other member states. Substitutes for those elected are also named in advance and if an MEP has to step down or resign, the substitute steps into their place and there is no need for a by-election. Similarly, no by-elections are held for local authority seats if a member step downs. It varies from place to place but generally the political party that holds the seat when the vacancy occurs nominates somebody who is then accepted, although that does not always happen. No by-elections are held for Seanad vacancies. Members of both Houses of the Oireachtas choose the replacement Senator. The full electoral process only applies to vacancies in the Dáil and that is proper, given the pre-eminence of the House over all the other democratic institutions of the State. We should hold onto that.

A by-election is an important mechanism to ensure the public have an opportunity of exercising their mandate by electing whom they wish at all times to serve in the House. I strongly urge the Government parties to accept that they cannot deny democracy and that the Constitution makes provision for the election of Deputies. It does not make specific provision for by-elections but a reasonable interpretation is that the intention is that a replacement Member should be elected in a by-election within a reasonable time. That is what is proposed in the legislation and the Government should agree to this. I urge it to do so before it is compelled to do so.

It is ironic that we are discussing a matter on Private Members' time in regard to by-elections when a further by-election has been flagged today following the death of our colleague, Senator Kieran Phelan. Other Members of the House have offered their condolences to his wife, Mary, and the family on his sudden death and I should like to be associated with those expressions of sympathy. Kieran was a very popular Member of the Seanad and of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party and he will be sadly missed.

Debates on Private Members' Bills, like most other debates, have become very predictable in many respects. The Opposition propose, the Government highlights its reservations and then decides to oppose. Regardless of the issue or the Minister's involvement, week in and out, this has consistently been the approach adopted in this House. I believe we have to become more mature in the way we do our business here and accept that wisdom does not reside on any particular side of the House. There are 166 Members each of whom has his or her own particular experience. There is merit in any proposal that is made here in the House and we should not continue to rubbish something just because it has come from the Opposition. Unfortunately, since I became a Member very few Private Members' Bills have been accepted by the Government, irrespective of which Administration is in place. If we looked on the Opposition proposing a Bill as being helpful in some regard, while we might not like the thrust of the proposed legislation or certain aspects to it, there is generally some merit in what is being proposed here in the Dáil. Rather than highlighting and dwelling on the negative aspects of a particular Bill, it would be more productive for us to deal with them in a more positive light.

This Bill proposes to amend the Electoral Act and provide for the holding of a by-election not less than six months after a vacancy occurs in Dáil Éireann. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, in his contribution last night referred to the Joint Committee on the Constitution and the fact that it is due to report very soon on the election of Members of the Dáil. He also spoke of the Government's proposed electoral reform, which includes Oireachtas reform. We would all accept that is badly needed. The Minister expressed the view that the Fine Gael approach was very much piecemeal and argued that this Bill deals with the single issue and that the proposal only serves to diminish the role of the national Parliament.

I very much welcome the publication of the Bill, the debate last night and again here tonight. Members have indicated how we might fill vacancies in the future. Deputy Costello mentioned how they are filled in the European Parliament and in local authorities. Mention was made last night as to how it was being done in other countries. Different approaches are adopted in individual countries and it was queried last night as to how democratic by-elections are, given the changes they can make to a Parliament. However, we must focus on the system we operate. If we are honest about by-elections, we would have to concede that Governments and Opposition have sought to hold them at a time that is most advantageous for the individual political parties.

It seemed rather strange last week to see Fine Gael moving the writ for the by-election in Waterford, without any mention of Dublin South where George Lee had been the representative. It has been the normal practice in this House for the party of the former Member to move the writ. In this case Fine Gael decided to move the writ for the Waterford by-election, while Sinn Féin, somewhat earlier, moved the writ for the by-election in Donegal South-West. Fine Gael was keen to have the by-election in Waterford because it believes it has a very strong chance of winning that seat and perhaps that is right. The Government is not that keen to have a by-election because historically, sitting Administrations find it very difficult to win by-elections. I am sure one could get good odds against Fianna Fáil winning a seat in any of the three by-elections.

We are very much into a numbers game, and it is important that the Government is taking tough decisions that are in the best interests of Ireland. It is medicine that is not going down very well in the country, however. We are very keen to stay in Government for the full term to implement our plans, as presented not just to the people but to Europe as well. At the same time we have to be conscious of the fact that we are living in a democracy and people are entitled to representation. That is something we cannot continue to deny to the people of Donegal, Dublin or Waterford.

I believe that the present system undermines and diminishes the role of this Parliament. In theory, the Dáil will decide when the by-elections are held but in reality it is the Taoiseach who makes that call. That is not just the case now. The system has always operated in that fashion. People talk about the need for reform but it will not take place that quickly. However, this is one area that needs our attention and if the majority of people in the House were honest with themselves, they would agree that change is necessary.

I see merit in the Fine Gael proposal before the House. Rather than dismiss it out of hand it might be more prudent to see how we might improve on it. There is much to be said for guaranteeing a by-election within six months of a vacancy occurring. However, if a referendum was fixed for a week or two later, people would argue that it would be more efficient to have the two held on the same day. Therefore, there needs to be more flexibility than what Fine Gael is proposing here. The situation we have has to be changed, however. If we compare the Dáil with the Seanad, we can see the vacancies in the Upper House are filled much more quickly than they are in this House. Vacancies arose there through the deaths of the late Senators Tony Kett and Peter Callanan, in April and November, respectively, last year and both have been filled.

As Deputies are aware, in the European Parliament elections a Member was elected from each of the Houses of the Oireachtas. The vacancy that has arisen as a result of Senator Alan Kelly being elected was filled in December, yet in this House the vacancy following the election of Pat the Cope Gallagher, MEP, remains. can understand the Government's thinking and the necessity to keep the numbers right and have a majority but there is a limit to how far this can be carried, and we cannot continue to deny the people of Donegal their rightful representation.

I want to refer to an item the Minister raised last night in regard to the regional mayors. Deputy Gormley mentioned that the Green Party had proposed a regional mayor for Dublin and it was his intention to hold an election for the mayor's office this year. When that idea was first mooted it sounded good but those were different times and I question the benefit of holding a mayoral election this year. I am not clear as to what the powers of that office would be, or what role the mayor would play and I do not believe we have put the proper foundations in place. It is akin to buying a plasma screen and then discovering one has no wall to hang it on. We should tread this road with some caution and perhaps pause a little before holding that election. I am not aware of any burning desire among the people of Dublin to elect a mayor. It is a luxury we can ill afford during these difficult times. I am not aware of any burning desire among the people of Dublin to elect their own mayor. It is a luxury we can ill afford during these difficult times.

I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak on this proposed Bill. The Bill would amend section 39 of the Electoral Act 1992 to provide for the holding of a by-election not later than six months after a vacancy occurs in Dáil Éireann.

I apologise, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle; I wish to be associated with the vote of sympathy on the death of our colleague Senator Kieran Phelan this morning, and I extend my sympathy to his family also, as we are talking about by-elections caused by the fact that people have resigned or are deceased.

The legislative amendment proposed by Fine Gael would remove the discretion of the Dáil to determine the timeframe for a by-election. The Dáil would not be allowed to take account of unforeseen events or circumstances that could be problematic in a particular timeframe. I have a problem with this because we have given away many of our powers by appointing quangos — so-called agencies — to carry out functions on behalf of the Oireachtas. It would be a further retrograde step to take from the House the power and discretion to call by-elections.

Section 39 of the Electoral Act provides that the Chairman of the Dáil shall direct the Clerk of the Dáil to issue a writ to the relevant returning officer to fill a casual vacancy in a constituency, but no timeframe is specified. I appreciate the rights of the electorates in the constituencies in Donegal, Dublin and Waterford. I know many people in my neighbouring county of Waterford and I accept there is a deficit there; however, the colleagues in that constituency are doing their best to fill it. Notwithstanding this, however, if by-elections were held at this point they would be a distraction from the serious work of the Government and all parties in the House in getting the economy back on track. We know how serious the situation is and we have seen the situations that pertain in other countries. The holding of by-elections now would be a total distraction. Many of us would have to be in Donegal, Dublin or Waterford doing the footwork that would be expected of us in support of our party candidates. To become involved in such campaigns would cause us to take our eyes off the ball.

Be that as it may, it is important that we consider such an amendment in the wider context of local electoral reform. The programme for Government has committed to the establishment of an electoral commission to which a range of tasks would be assigned. The examination and making of recommendations for changes to the electoral system for Dáil elections, including the number of Deputies and their means of election, is one of those tasks. The programme for Government also commits to considering options for the timing of elections for local authorities, the Dáil, the Seanad and the European Parliament, and states this should include the possibility of mid-term elections and the running of some elections on a staggered or rolling basis so elections do not fall on the same date for every candidate or chamber.

The report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Constitution examining the system for the election of Members to Dáil Éireann is expected next month and will also inform this work. While these reports are being compiled, it would be inopportune to proceed with by-elections. Accordingly, this issue will be dealt with through the appropriate procedures that are already in place. I oppose the Bill as an opportunistic and unnecessary distraction on the part of the proposers. I say this because of the serious work that is going on in this country. We must portray an image abroad, including to international lenders, that we are serious about the job in hand and we will deal with the other issues when we have got our house in order.

I am glad to have the opportunity of speaking on this motion. I understand the motivation of the Opposition in tabling this Bill for the Wednesday night vote. They must think up the issues each week and we in turn must respond to them. I do not have any notion that the proposers of the Bill are wrong to have done so; they have every right to table whatever they wish.

When the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, spoke last night, he went through the various points of reform of the Houses of the Oireachtas. I wish to speak briefly on the issue of Seanad reform; I am not straying off the point, as it was mentioned in the Minister's speech. In 2004 we published proposals for reform of the Seanad, very nicely bound together, which had taken 12 months to produce, during which time we took numerous depositions. I do not agree with the abolition of the Seanad; it would be an incorrect move. I suppose it will not come about, but at least those who came forward with the proposal had something to say for themselves. They were putting forward an idea, although it is to my mind an incorrect idea.

On that subject, I must mention, as Leader of that House for five years, how sad I was to hear of the passing of Kieran Phelan. He was a brilliant colleague in Seanad Éireann; a great attender, a great voter and a great worker. It is very sad. The Seanad would well merit proper reform as proposed by the then Senators Brian Hayes and John Dardis, Senator Joe O'Toole and myself. Most of the points have been put forward again in other documents.

Six years later.

I was invited to the first meeting of the consultative group set up by the Minister, Deputy Gormley, and I went to it because of my interest in Seanad reform. Then I never heard from the group again. I presume it continues to meet, but I do not know. I was not invited a second time, although I did think I made an input.

The Minister stated in his speech last night that the electoral registers should be prepared on a rolling basis; I fully agree with this. We all get agitated once every four or five years when it comes to election time and everybody is trying to cram people onto the electoral register by a set date. Speaking to people in local government in Northern Ireland recently, I found they have an ongoing electoral register; it is not just a frantic burst of activity once every five years. This merits examination.

The case was also made in the Minister's speech that when the people have voted in a general election, they have decided on the Parliament they want. It seems a bit unfair that those in one constituency, representing perhaps 2% of the electorate, could unbalance the whole political structure in a by-election.

The Deputy has one minute left.

I know the face the Leas-Cheann Comhairle makes when I have one minute left; I was expecting it.

Excellent; I do not need to speak at all.

No, it is a very nice face, actually.

It could unbalance the whole democratic nature of the country. This is something that should be considered carefully. Why should we allow what was a democratic decision to be upset by 2% of the electorate who would be voting in a by-election?

If it has galvanised the review of the electoral system and the establishment of an electoral commission, this debate has been well merited.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. However, I wish first to express my sympathies to the family of Kieran Phelan: his wife and children, his brothers and sisters and, in particular, his mother. It is difficult to talk about by-elections when one has been caused in the Seanad today. I was elected to the Seanad on the same day as Senator Phelan. Having served with him for five years, I also shared an office with him. It is difficult to deal with the sudden and untimely death of someone who was so decent and hard-working. He was a family man — quiet and unassuming in so many respects, but a phenomenal politician. Politics was the blood that flowed in Kieran's veins. His death is a huge loss to the Fianna Fáil Party and to the democratic system. Above all, it is a loss not just to his family but also to his community in Laois which he served with considerable distinction at both local and national level. It is difficult to talk about electoral reform on a day when we find ourselves grieving for such a fantastic parliamentarian and politician.

The Bill before us was put forward by the Opposition, as is its right, and there is an element of politicking, as is only to be expected. Deputy O'Rourke made the important point that because of the tight voting situation that often pertains in our Parliament, even a small shift could have an impact on the capacity of the Government to operate cohesively. For many years the Fine Gael Party, which did not control a large number of local authorities through recent history, sought to change the process by which casual vacancies on councils were filled. The party was of the view that it was not the best approach for the majority within a local authority to decide on how a casual vacancy should be filled.

That situation was subsequently changed in legislation which sought to provide a replacement from within the party of the person who had vacated the position. I strongly urge the Minister, through the establishment of an independent electoral commission, that strong consideration be given to the replacement of a casual vacancy in either the Dáil or Seanad from within the party of the departing Member. The existing system of by-elections is ultimately a breach of the proportional representation system because it allows for elections on the basis of a single constituency. A far better way to fill a casual vacancy is to provide a mechanism similar to what we have identified at local authority level. That would retain the balance and would obviate many of the issues we are discussing.

For that reason, I strongly oppose the Fine Gael proposal. It is vital that we retain stability at this time. We see shifts in opinion polls from week to week and for some to suggest that the Government does not have the support of the people and that these vacancies offer an opportunity to bring about a change of government does not bode well for the confidence that is required and the capacity of the Administration to make difficult decisions. We see what is happening in Greece where the Government is struggling to take the action necessary to deal with the economic crisis. We must be true to our democracy rather than to our own political concerns. It may not be long before the Opposition finds itself in a similar position and would benefit from a system where casual vacancies are replaced from within the relevant party's ranks until the next election. That would be a much truer reflection of the purity of the proportional representation system. I hope this will be taken into account by the electoral commission.

On behalf of the Green Party, I take this opportunity to express our devastation at the sudden death of our colleague, Senator Kieran Phelan. His loss fixes our minds clearly on the issues to be considered in regard to by-elections and selection processes.

I do not accept Fine Gael's proposal as the best way to deal with the situation.

What a surprise.

I agree with my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, that amending section 39 of the Electoral Act 1992, as proposed, will only offer a mechanistic solution. I would have more time for this proposal if I were not certain that it is motivated almost solely by short-term political gamesmanship. Fine Gael was in Government for a large part of the 1980s and more recently in the 1990s, but it offered no bright, breezy ideas on electoral reform during that time. It did nothing — a big zero. It recently attempted to move the writ for a by-election in Waterford, not the longer-standing vacancy in Dublin South. Could it be that the party has a candidate in Waterford but not in Dublin South?

We have plenty of candidates.

I merely pose the question.

Unlike Fine Gael, I propose to deal with the business in hand by addressing some of the important underlying principles involved in this issue. This proposal is flawed because it fails to take account of emergency situations such as a foot and mouth or flu epidemic when it would be downright dangerous to summon people to the polling booths.

The Minister of State forgot to mention avian flu.

What about attacks by aliens?

We must not forget the volcano.

Deputies must allow the Minister of State to continue without interruption. Everybody is entitled to be heard, it is a democratic House of debate.

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Members opposite will say that such eventualities can be taken account of by a simple amendment or addition, but I see a more fundamental difficulty. Setting a fixed time limit for the holding of by-elections would remove the current discretion of the House, democratically elected by the people, to order its own affairs. The best way to deal with this and the many related issues on electoral reform is to take them on together. That is why I welcome the Minister's decision, announced here last night, to move towards fast-tracking the electoral commission by setting it up first on a non-statutory basis. That is a good idea. Good work has already been done in this regard in a scoping exercise carried out by the UCD expert group. The commission can move ahead with work already agreed under the renewed programme for Government — the negotiations for which I had the honour of participating in — and advance the cause of electoral reform more generally.

There are various arguments, some of which were touched upon by the Minister last night, about the pros and cons of by-elections, and there is little point in rehearsing them tonight. I note that one virtue of the current system of by-elections to fill vacancies is that the people are familiar with them and that the system, by and large, works. However, there are grounds for considering in a more dispassionate fashion the adoption of practices used in the European Parliament elections of naming potential replacements at the time of the general election. Other options include co-options on one basis or another. Discussions of these and related matters must be held in a more calm and considered environment when immediate party interests are not so much to the fore. We could also usefully incorporate into our deliberations the report of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution which is due shortly. It would be wrong and dangerous to rush to accept this Fine Gael proposal because it has not been given sufficient consideration and the party has not consulted widely.

I propose to share time with Deputies McHugh, McGinley, Mitchell, Perry and O'Mahony.

I will begin by doing something unusual. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, deserves the congratulations of the House on his contribution last night to the debate on this Bill. I proffer similar congratulations to the Minister of State, Deputy White, who simply recycled that speech. The Minister showed an imaginative approach in inventing a justification for the Green Party's opposition to the Bill. When in opposition, the Minister and his Green Party colleagues masqueraded as a party committed to electoral and Dáil reform.

There was no masquerade.

During its period in office the Green Party has tried to maintain this image by engaging in what could best be described as a game of political charades in which it attempts to maintain the perception of a reformist zeal but fails utterly to take any meaningful action when given the right opportunity. The truth is the Green chameleon has readily adapted to the Fianna Fáil ethos and Green Party Ministers and Oireachtas Members are indistinguishable from their Fianna Fáil colleagues in Government. In a parliamentary democracy, on the death or resignation of a Member of Parliament there should be fixed rules with which Government should not interfere for the filling of a vacant parliamentary seat to protect the rights of the electorate. Such provision has for too long been absent from our laws so this Bill, introduced by my Front Bench colleague, Deputy Phil Hogan, on behalf of Fine Gael, contains a reasonable and common-sense measure which should be supported by all sides in this House. No Government or Opposition party should fear going before the electorate in a by-election——

——and each should welcome the opportunity to explain actions taken and policies proposed, and to seek electoral support.

If a Government has lost the support of the people and if losing a by-election in one or more constituencies ends a Government's majority in parliament, that is an exercise of the democratic will of the people which is the very foundation stone of parliamentary democracy.

The Minister, Deputy Gormley, told the truth in one statement he made last night. He made reference to the fact that "by-elections can and do change the balance of parliament, bring down governments and precipitate general elections". That he gave voice to this thought clearly revealed the fear of the electorate that is now wrapped around the political soul of every Green Party Member in this House.

Deputy Shatter had his chance.

Members will not interrupt.

However, the Minister, Deputy Gormley, disingenuously gave as his main reason for opposing this Bill the fact that it requires the holding of a by-election within six months after a vacancy occurs and makes no provision for unforeseen events which could disrupt a by-election. The Minister of State, Deputy White, repeated that particular mantra tonight. The Minister, Deputy Gormley, gave examples of what he described as "two emergency health situations in recent years — swine flu and foot and mouth disease".

There is nothing to prevent the Government accepting this Bill in principle and tabling a simple amendment on Committee Stage to facilitate the postponement of a by-election in exceptional circumstances or where there is a national emergency. However, I do not believe that anyone would regard the speech of the Minister, Deputy Gormley, as credible. I am not convinced it is even credible to him. I assume in this, as in other matters, he is acting at the behest of his Fianna Fáil masters and motivated by a dominant personal desire to hold onto office at all costs. Should he change his mind and support the Bill this evening, I would like to suggest the following green related natural disasters that he may wish to propose be referenced in the Bill as sound grounds for postponing by-elections. All of these are as credible as the two examples given by him of unforeseen events that the Bill should address.

The ones I am suggesting for the Minister, Deputy Gormley, are the following: a coup by a green army of garden gnomes; a volcanic eruption on Achill Island; a plague of locusts; Ireland struck by a meteorite; a Martian or other extra-terrestrial landing; or the commencement in Ireland of an annual hurricane season. All of these might afford an opportunity to postpone a by-election or possibly a general election in the context of a Bill of this nature being accepted and the Minister, Deputy Gormley, applying his thought process to tabling appropriate amendments.

There is a fundamental defect in the Bill which I am sure my colleague, Deputy Hogan, may wish to acknowledge. It is the absence of any provision to prescribe an appropriate course of action should a by-election be held and one's pet dog in the polling station unexpectedly eats one's ballot paper. Sadly, even in the context of general elections, we do not have a solution to that particular problem. It is surprising, however, that that was not another defect the Minister, Deputy Gormley, alleged.

The truth is that the Green Party and the Fianna Fáil Party have no interest in electoral reform or Dáil reform. If they had, this Bill would be supported across party lines in this House and passed through Second Stage this evening.

The 18th century Irish philosopher and parliamentarian, Edmund Burke, formulated and enunciated two models of parliamentary representation. The first was a trustee model of parliamentary representation where constituents elect representatives as trustees. This trustee has sufficient autonomy to deliberate and act in favour of the greater common good and national interest, even if it means going against the short-term interests of the constituency that elects the representatives.

The second model enunciated by Edmund Burke was a delegate model of representation whereby constituents elect representatives as constituency delegates. The delegate acts as a spokesperson for the wishes of the constituency and has no independence from the constituency. This model does not provide representatives with the luxury of acting in conscience. Instead, the representative acts as the voice of constituents who are literally not present.

Mr. Burke, an Irishman, was speaking in a different time of a different parliament with different traditions in a different country. Historians of Irish politics sometimes point to the Confederacy of Kilkenny, 1642 to 1652, as the genesis of parliamentary democracy in this country. It is significant that our colleague, Deputy Hogan, has initiated this amending legislation. It would do the Minister of State, Deputy White, well to look at this as a starting point in her argument rather than the hypothesis she put forward earlier.

This House's legislative foundation dates from the 1920s, and this Fine Gael Bill seeks to amend an Act that is relevant only to the model of representation citizens of this State have developed over the past 89 years. This is a uniquely Irish model that borrows from both of Edmund Burke's prototypes but mirrors neither. In matters of legislation, Members of Dáil Éireann are somewhat entrusted by constituents, but are predominantly delegated.

In matters of legislation, constituents elect Deputies to work as part of parliamentary parties. In that regard, Deputies are often derided for lack of originality. There is additionally a significant extra legislative role. I refer to constituency work, which is not always legislative but is nevertheless inherently parliamentary as Irish people understand it. That service is something the Irish constituent demands and rewards, although some high profile columnists and intellectuals deride this model of representation as post-colonial, parish pump and gombeen.

Some of these matters interface with the legislative process. Others do not, but all are part of the Irish political process as Irish people understand it and participate in it. These are the matters that are important to the Irish people. In legislative matters, Deputies serve as trustees and delegates for constituents. When frustrated in dealings with the State and State agencies, constituents turn to Deputies to make representations for them.

Ultimately, our parliamentary democracy is based on access. Through his or her Deputy, the citizen feels part of the legislative process and is confident that he or she has a representative in his or her dealings. We are legislative and representative intermediaries. The Deputies who provide these services are the ones who receive the largest mandates at election time.

I have outlined the role of parliamentary representative as I, a practitioner, and the Donegal North-East electors, the participants, understand it. The voters of Donegal South-West, Waterford and Dublin South are currently denied access. They do not have the same intermediary service available to voters in other constituencies. These intermediary services are part of the functioning of the State. This Bill seeks to ensure that citizens are not denied this service, which citizens have designed over 89 years ago, for more than six months.

Once more I have the opportunity of speaking on this subject. It is probably the fourth time it has come up in the Chamber. I believe it was last July when it was first mooted by Sinn Féin that the writ for the Donegal South-West by-election should be moved. It was raised again before Christmas. Some weeks ago we had it in regard to Waterford, and now this Bill is before the House.

This is a simple, straightforward and short Bill. All it seeks is an amendment to the 1992 Electoral Act that will compel the Government of the day to hold a by-election within six months of the vacancy arising. That is not too much to ask. We have had a vacancy in Donegal South-West for almost a year, since 5 June last. In Dublin South I believe it goes back to last February and in Waterford to last March.

We are told this Government could go on till May or June 2012 but the question I would ask, and the Minister might enlighten us in his reply, is whether the Government intends leaving the three seats vacant until the general election in two years' time. That is unthinkable. Like the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I have been a Member of the House for quite a few years and I do not remember three vacancies at the same time. I recall two vacancies, and the elections were held in due course, but I have never heard of three constituencies being disenfranchised of their proper constitutional representation.

I represent Donegal South-West and have a particular interest in that constituency. It is a big constituency. I said in the Dáil some weeks ago that almost 70,000 people live there and I understand the constitutional requirement is that the Dáil Deputy represents between 20,000 and 30,000 people. The two remaining Deputies in Donegal South-West, the Tánaiste and myself, each represent approximately 35,000 people, which is outside the guidelines of the Constitution, and if someone took the courage and went to the High Court, the court probably would find in his or her favour. I do not know how many times this will come up between now and 2012. Is it the Government's intention not to hold them at all? It is undemocratic.

As I stated previously, Donegal South-West is a scattered constituency. We have many problems there and we need every voice we have in this House on the Government and the Opposition sides to articulate the needs of the county. Our present difficulties include economic and social difficulties. The unemployment rate is twice the national average, factories are closing in our indigenous industries, and fishing, agriculture and tourism are in crisis. It would be an opportunity for the Government to go to Donegal South-West, Dublin South and Waterford to see for itself the situation.

Of course, the Government's mandate is questionable. As has been stated by previous speakers, the configuration of the Government is not what went before the electorate and is something that was cobbled together afterwards.

I am confident that if the people of Donegal South-West, the people of Dublin South and the people of Waterford were given the opportunity, the Government would get the message, as they did last year in the case of Dublin South. Ultimately, we are looking not for by-elections, but for a general election so that we will have a new Government that will have a mandate to do what is needed in this country and put the economy right.

We are discussing it once more. I have a fair idea that we will not get the Government's support on this Bill, as has been indicated already by the Minister who spoke last night. Obviously, the people of Donegal South-West, Dublin South and Waterford will be left in the lurch without adequate representation for the duration of this Government, even if it goes to 2012. It is scandalous. It never happened in this country previously and I do not think it ever happened in any other civilised country either.

Last night listening to the Minister, for the first time I felt sorry for Ministers when I realised they were so bereft of any argument against this proposal that they were forced to resort to criticising it on the basis that we had not provided for human or animal pandemics. It is true, we never thought of that. We did not think of dealing with floods, earthquakes, volcanos or anything like that. When I went to look at the Constitution today to see whether it dealt with these matters in the case of a general election, I found that it did not. Once an election is called, it must be held within 30 days. Even if we are attacked by aliens in the meanwhile, one must go ahead with it or deal with it in some way. It would be laughable if it was not so serious.

Then we heard the argument that in Dublin South my party did not have a candidate. I can assure the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, and I am sure my colleague Deputy Shatter would assure him, the problem is we have a surfeit of candidates in Dublin South, not that we have none.

The Government really has been reduced to the most ludicrous red herrings because it is totally bereft of any real argument. It is not that they do not have reasons to reject it. Of course, they have, but they are neither valid nor acceptable reasons and they certainly could not come in here and articulate what they are.

The truth is, no matter who is in government, there may always be the tendency given a particular electoral situation or a political situation where a Government, if it had any choice, would choose not to have a by-election. It is precisely for that reason, no matter who is in Government, that we feel that this decision should not be within the Government's remit and we should deal with it by legislation. The current lack of legislation in the area makes it much too prone to party political considerations.

The Constitution, as my colleague stated, is clear on the matter of the level of representation to which the public is entitled — not less than one Deputy per 30,000 and not more than one per 20,000 of population. It clearly states that all elections, including the filling of casual vacancies, shall be subject to this provision.

In my constituency we are just within the level of tolerance but Donegal South-West, as Deputy McGinley stated, is far outside it — by approximately 5,500 people. If I lived in Donegal South-West and I had been without the correct number of TDs for 12 months, and given the disadvantage of Donegal due to its peripherality, I would be mad as hell and on the streets demanding my proper representation.

I believe the Government is now in conflict with the Constitution by not calling a by-election in Donegal South-West and certainly in conflict with the spirit of the Constitution by not calling all three.

The overwhelming argument and most compelling case for a by-election is that the Government has no mandate for the measures it is taking. The Government got elected on the basis that it was a safe pair of hands and that it was the only Government that could ensure the continued economic growth. How far is that from what the people got? Instead, it is presiding over the biggest economic mess we have ever seen, pursuing banking policies that repeatedly prove not only that they were not working but that they are forcing us down a path of almost inevitable catastrophe. The Government is now on a path of continuous and escalating bailout of Anglo Irish Bank and is so hung up on this path that it now feels it cannot diverge from it because it realises it would have to admit that it was wrong from the beginning.

The only way the country can be saved is if there is a change of Government and a complete policy change while there is still something to save in this country. Any Government that had any decency and any sense of shame, knowing that it no longer had a mandate, no matter what the economic circumstances, would step down and let an election take place. Remaining in power without a mandate to pursue policies with such enormous and far-reaching consequences for every person in this country, and possibly for the next generation as well, shows the most unbelievable arrogance and is a complete betrayal of our democracy.

If the Government really believes it has a mandate, given that according to the arguments Government Deputies were making they seem to believe or at least had the nerve to state that it would destabilise the country if we had an election, not having an election is destabilising the country day in, day out and it is getting worse every day. If the Government really believes it has a mandate, it has nothing to lose by putting that mandate to the test in by-elections. I can tell the House that the Government would get a very clear answer to that question.

I thank Deputy Hogan for bringing this simple and necessary Bill onto the floor of the House and I thank Deputies Maureen O'Sullivan, Finian McGrath and Behan for their support.

The Bill requires that a by-election be held no sooner than three months and no later than six months after the date on which a Dáil vacancy occurs. It is simple, it is direct and it addresses the needs of representative democracy. Most of all, it provides for a reasonable period of reflection after a vacancy occurs. It also provides that no constituency in the country will be without a full quota of representatives for an endless extended period.

The other practical effect of the Bill will be to immediately trigger the holding of three outstanding by-elections in Donegal South-West, Waterford and Dublin South. There is no good reason the voters of Donegal South-West, Waterford and Dublin South should be under represented in the Dáil. Citizens are without full representation in Donegal South-West for over 11 months, in Dublin South for three months and in Waterford for over two months. At a time of economic crisis, the constituencies need to have all of their representatives working on their behalf.

This Bill is partly a response to the recent voting down by the Government side of a motion calling for the dates for individual by-elections to be set. To criticise the Fine Gael motion as political opportunism is a major double-standard statement when the Government itself is guilty of naked opportunism in evading the issue of holding a by-election. The Government's claim that it must focus all its time and attention on doing something to fix the economy and get the country out of the recession rings somewhat hollow in light of the fact that there is no real improvement in the economy. Looking at the Government agenda for the past few months, very little of its focus and attention has been devoted to the real economic improvement. Evading the issue of a by-election has nothing to do with time and attention being focused on the economy.

There is no valid reason for avoiding by-elections for such an extended period of time. The only reason that makes sense is that the Government is afraid to ask the people of the three constituencies to vote. If they fear that they might lose all three by-elections, that, indeed, would be a political reason but it would not be a democracy in action.

The point of politics is to elect governments. Ultimately, political organisations are judged by the quality of government they deliver. We tell the citizens that democracy makes them masters of politicians but citizens now find out they are powerless when it comes to by-elections. What we have now is the Fianna Fáil version of democracy that is aimed at holding on to power whatever the cost to democracy. Democracy rests on the active participation by citizens but the citizens of these three constituencies are denied their right to exercise their electoral power. This Fianna Fáil led Government is doing a remarkably effective job of insulting the voters of the three constituencies. This Fianna Fáil-led erosion of democratic rights in the name of political expediency is regrettable and counter-productive.

I call on Fianna Fáil to put the democratic requirement for the people of the three constituencies at the top of its priorities. This Bill will prevent the present and all future Governments from blocking the filling of vacant Dáil Éireann seats as a cynical tactic to protect its own narrow majority. What the country needs most of all is a full general election. The present Fianna Fáil and Green Government was elected on the basis of a mandate that is so for away from the reality of the present economic disaster as is possible. This Fianna Fáil and Green Government has no electoral mandate for the wrong-headed actions now being inflicted on the country and the economy and the appalling situation for business. The present disastrous situation in which the country finds itself is exclusively of Fianna Fáil's making.

Everyone in this country is willing to play a part in turning Ireland's fortunes around but our citizens need to be led by a capable Government, elected for that purpose and not haunted by the ghosts and mistakes of the past. It is time the citizens of Ireland had a say as to what happens in their country and who they want to lead them out of this recession. The people should be asked in an election to cast their votes on how the country is being run and who should run it. The first step in this process is to hold the three by-elections. The results of the by-elections will provide a clear marker for where the country stands on which party should lead for the future.

This is a very important issue. The country is in need of representation at every level. The situation affecting the economy is appalling. Despite the spin being put on it by certain economists about an improvement it is far from real on the ground. We must have political representation. The Government should announce the holding of these by-elections now.

I am pleased to contribute to the debate and I commend and thank Deputy Hogan for bringing forward this Bill. There has been much talk in recent months and years about Dáil reform and the need to reconfigure the number of Deputies. However, it is vital to implement the system that is legislated for and this is not being done. Let us call a spade a spade. The simple fact of the matter is that the policy of the present Government seems to be to hold onto power at all costs. Politics and politicians have taken a fair battering in the past number of years and particularly in the recent two years, as a result of the mismanagement by the Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats Government and the way in which it has dealt with the economic crisis. Following the 2007 election, we saw how the Government wanted to hold on to power by doing sweetheart deals with some Independent Deputies while at the same time, hundreds of people were on hospital trolleys in hospitals throughout the country. The public cannot understand how the people are being taken for a ride, time and time again, by the policies of this Government. It will not hold these by-elections because it does not wish to be given the results of an opinion poll from the people on how the country is being run.

I have listened to some of the Government Deputies arguing that if a by-election were to be held, they would have to travel to Donegal or Waterford and therefore, it could mean they would have to take their eyes off the ball. The eye has been off the ball for a long number of years. The ball has been hidden away and passed around among the high rolling bankers and high society figures. There is much talk in another area about the illegal hand pass. I can assure the House that ball has been hidden away and there is no reason for saying a by-election would be a distraction.

What is needed is a full general election so that the real mandate can be given to this shambles of an Administration. At least this Bill ensures that the holding or not holding of a by-election cannot be used as a device to hold the Government in power when it is crystal clear that the will of the people is to see the end of the present Administration. It would help to restore credibility to the political system and make the Government in some way accountable for its mismanagement and incompetence.

The mixed messages and ducking and diving by the junior partner, the Green Party, on this issue, is a further example of how it will go to any lengths to cling to power. In pronouncements outside the House, the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, said that he thinks these by-elections should be held before the end of the year in the autumn. The Minister, Deputy Gormley, last night put forward unforeseen events such as swine flu and foot and mouth disease. He talked about commissioning reports on what should be done. Surely all of the above reasons are nothing more than red herrings, delaying tactics, lame excuses, for not supporting something that makes a lot of sense and takes the decision on holding by-elections out of the hands of all Government parties, whoever they may be. God be with the days when the Greens had some principles and a little bit of bottle.

The first question all of us are being asked on the doorsteps is when will there be a general election. Is the present Government of Fianna Fáil and the Greens so desperate to cling on to power that it will not even put its toe in the water and support the thrust of this Bill that would bring some sense of democracy to this country? The anger is welling up as we have seen in recent weeks. Let us give some power back to the people by voting for this Bill.

I commend Deputy Hogan and I thank Deputies Maureen O'Sullivan, Finian McGrath and Behan, for their initiatives and support of this Bill. I commend the Bill to the House.

Members will agree that this has been an interesting debate and I thank Deputies on all sides of the House for their contributions which add to the wider electoral reform debate. The point was well made by the Minister, Deputy Gormley, last night that the Fine Gael Bill removes the discretion of elected Members to determine when by-elections should be held and in doing so actually diminishes the role of the National Parliament. This approach undermines democracy. I agree we must allow the elected Members the flexibility to exercise their own judgment regarding the timing of by-elections. None of us can anticipate the future and we must be in a position to respond appropriately, having regard to the circumstances at the time. For this reason I think the Bill is overly prescriptive. It was interesting to note the Labour Party saw the Bill as a simple and immediate measure to control the timing of by-elections. From my understanding of the debate last night, that view was shared by other members of the Opposition. However, as the Minister, Deputy Gormley said, the question of timing of by-elections should not be dealt with in such a piecemeal and isolated way. The Government's current electoral reform agenda is comprehensive and wide-ranging and it is appropriate that by-elections should be dealt with as part of the wider review of the electoral system. In any event, it would not seem to make sense to move on this issue in advance of the report of the Joint Committee on the Constitution. Its detailed examination of the systems used for the election of Members of Dáil Éireann is directly relevant to this debate. It should help inform and be part of our wider electoral reform considerations.

I will conclude with a few brief words on the electoral commission.

I advise the Minister of State he has a further five minutes speaking time should he wish to take it.

The electoral commission is a key aspect of the Government's electoral reform agenda. The Minister, Deputy Gormley spoke at some length in the debate about the commission and outlined the significant challenges in its establishment, including the extensive legislative change. However, the Government is keen to make progress on electoral reform and with this in mind the Minister has undertaken to give consideration to establishing a commission on a non-statutory basis. This work, together with many issues on which the Government has already delivered a Green Paper on local government, statutory controls on spending and donations at local elections, the Dublin Mayor Bill, general scheme published for consultation. This is all a testament to the Government's commitment to electoral reform. There will be more in the coming months, including the publication and enactment of the Dublin mayor Bill and the White Paper on local government reform. It is against this background that the Government disagrees with the Fine Gael approach to dealing with by-elections in isolation. Therefore, it does not accept the Fine Gael Private Members' Bill.

I wish to share time with Deputies Hogan and Ring.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

This Government has played politics for the past 13 years. Government by numbers has come to represent our democracy. In so many cases, legislation has been passed against popular opinion due to the weight of numbers. When I think of NAMA and the bank bailouts a shiver goes down my spine.

This is where the problem arises. We are faced with the conflict between the numbers required by Fianna Fáil and the Greens, which they know they will not get by holding the disputed by-elections, and the representation that the people of Donegal South-West, Waterford and Dublin South are entitled to. It is a massive abuse of power by the Fianna Fáil-Green Government to withhold the electoral process aimed at giving the electorate their democratic rights.

Aristotle tells us in Politics that a person may be appointed to office, or participate in the election of others, setting an early precedent for democracy. However, he failed to anticipate the measures that a dying Government is prepared to take to ensure the pendulum would not fall to far towards the Opposition side.

The colour green has certainly faded and is now replaced by a sickly yellow. I do not see any Green Party Members in the Chamber for the conclusion of this important debate. The Minister, Deputy Gormley, made his position clear yesterday when he said by-elections can, and do, change the balance of Parliament, bring down Governments and precipitate general elections. I can see the fear in his eyes, and those of other Green Party members who have been hiding in the corridors rather than facing the music in this debate.

The Minister also said there are strong arguments in principle against having by-elections at all, in a situation where Parliament is elected by proportional representation. That is rubbish, however, and he knows it. Either we have proportional representation or we do not. He cannot decide to change the system or bring it into question when the potential outcome is not likely to be to his taste.

It is a disgrace that the Government of the day should seek to pervert the course of democracy. The independence of the electoral system should be taken for granted and no party, whether in government or in opposition, should seek to interfere in the electoral process.

In order to prevent a repetition of the attack on democracy we are now witnessing, an independent electoral commission must be established urgently. I am glad to see the Minister is coming around to that idea, albeit somewhat belatedly.

Following the review carried out by the Fine Gael Party on the future of the electoral register and related electoral matters, the need for a single independent body to foster integrity and public confidence in the democratic process was highlighted. For example, we currently have an appalling situation whereby disabled people have to re-register annually as postal voters. It must be possible to put some less labour-intensive system in place. I want to see that happen before the next general election, if there is time to do so.

An Agreed Programme for Government 2007-12 contained a commitment to establish an electoral commission to take responsibility for electoral administration, implement modern and efficient electoral practices, revise constituency boundaries, compile a new national rolling electoral register, take over the functions of the Standards in Public Office Commission on electoral spending, and examine the issues involved in financing the political system. There has been little follow up by the Government on these matters, however.

So far, we have seen the publication and passing of the Electoral Amendment Bill 2009. The scope of this legislation merely extends to election posters and the welcome limitations on local election spending. However, the setting up of the promised electoral commission has failed to take place. The Minister promised this again yesterday, but no time-scale has been put in place. Given the Minister's worrying disregard for the norms of electoral procedure, it is time to put in place the safeguard of an independent electoral commission.

Now, more than ever, it is essential that we secure the integrity of the electoral process. If a Third World country refused to hold democratic elections, there would be an outcry. While we know to our cost that the current Government is hell bent on retaining power by any means, an attack on our democracy that sees a section of our population deprived of representation shows how far it is prepared to go to put its interests ahead of the public interest.

It is a major omission that the Electoral Act 1992 contains no limitation on the time within which a by-election should be held following the death or resignation of a sitting Deputy. In the manner of one not wishing to be cornered, the Minister saw the imposition of a six-month time-scale as a weakness in the Fine Gael Bill. This is far from the truth, however. The Minister talked about emergencies preventing the holding of elections within such a timeframe, but I do not have to tell him that emergencies can be accommodated. It is hard to see the loss of three seats to the Government as such an emergency.

The track record of the current Government is based on the numbers game. The Minister's reference to substitutes, in the manner of a sports team, would suit his current predicament very well. In yesterday's debate, it was blatantly obvious that he will do anything to avoid upsetting the balance of power.

The Taoiseach's answer to calls for the by-elections has been a dismissive "Don't worry about it". While that may be the Taoiseach's answer, I have to tell him that we do worry about it. I worry about the exercise and practice of democracy, and do not take kindly to his dismissive remark. In the interests of democracy I will be watching carefully to see how my constituency colleagues on the Government side will vote on this Bill and what importance they place on the rights to representation.

I compliment my colleague, Deputy Hogan, for bringing this Bill before the House. Deputy Hogan, who will be the next Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, is a far-thinking man who has brought many policies before this House.

We need to deal with the by-election issue once and for all. By-elections should not be the right of the Government to call. It is the right of the people to elect the person they want to sit in this House. In recent years, however, democracy has been taken away from the people. During election campaigns, politicians preach that they believe in democracy, yet when they come here they do the opposite. I will cite two or three examples.

I became a Member of this House in 1994 following a by-election. It took the Government 18 months to move the writ for that election. I thank the Government for that because what happened is that I spent 18 months on the road, especially, as the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Finneran well knows, in areas that I would probably not have been let into, and have not been let into since but they still remember me, thanks be to God. I canvassed widely in certain areas and if the Government held the by-election in 1994 when it should have been held, it would probably have won it. Instead, it gave the people an opportunity to let me loose, and by God I got loose. Thanks be to God the people have elected me to this House in every election since then.

I wish to return to what has happened in the House in recent days. A serious issue has arisen in regard to children in this country. The Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, sat where the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, is sitting. She has not opened her mouth for three or four days because she says it is the responsibility of the Health Service Executive. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, sits on the Government benches and he says certain matters are not his responsibility, but the responsibility of the National Roads Authority. When the Ministers are finished with that excuse, they say they have no responsibility in the matter, it is the officials in the Department who are causing the trouble. The people in this country elect politicians to take responsibility for Departments if they get into ministerial office. We are sick and tired of Governments handing over the powers of this House.

Last night, we heard that Fianna Fáil is now getting rid of town councils. If the party had its way it would get rid of county councils and elections. It does not want referenda, by-elections, general elections or elections to Údarás na Gaeltachta. What it wants is a dictatorship. If Fianna Fáil had its way, we would have a dictatorship in this country because that is the way we are heading with this Government. I say to the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, that the day will come — it is not far away, it could be next week, next month or next year — but the people are waiting in the long grass for Fianna Fáil. The Green Party Members will be left in the green grass of this country. They will never put their heads up above the grass again because they will not be on the Government side of the House and they will not be on the Opposition side of the House.

I referred to what by-elections mean and what happens as a result. In 1994, I was elected on the same day as a man called Eric Byrne was elected for Democratic Left. A couple of months later Fine Gael was in government. Those two seats helped to strengthen the Government. I say to Deputy Hogan that if I had not won the by-election for Fine Gael, the party would not have been able to go into government. I have made a small bit of history in the Fine Gael Party.

Deputy Ring did not get much thanks for it since.

I am delighted, given that it was probably the best Government since the foundation of the State.

To return to Deputy Hogan's proposal, the Government should stop the dictatorship and give the people an opportunity to have by-elections in the three constituencies. If the Government does not want to hold the by-elections, let us go before the people and let them adjudicate on the Government for getting us into the greatest mess.

I put the Leas-Chathaoirleach on notice that tomorrow morning I will have something to say about the disgraceful way the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government treats Deputies. I will leave that until tomorrow. This is not a democracy; it is dictatorship, but I will deal with that tomorrow morning when I deal with the Department. I will have a few words with the Ceann Comhairle or the Leas-Cheann Comhairle on the matter.

I acknowledge that Deputy Ring knows all about elections and by-elections. I will make representations to the other Members of the party in Mayo to ensure that he is allowed into all parishes and not banned as he alleges is the case.

I thank all speakers who have contributed to the debate, which is an important one in terms of a modest electoral reform. I thank the speakers from the Labour Party, Sinn Féin and the Independents who are supporting the Bill. It is clear for a considerable period, not long after the previous election, that the Government has no mandate to govern. The policies that have been implemented since September 2007 bear no resemblance to the mandates and programmes that were put forward by Fianna Fáil and the Green Party. In fact, the Green Party indicated it would have nothing to do with Fianna Fáil before the 2007 general election but we know what happened shortly afterwards.

The Green Party is finding out that it is not easy to be partners in government with Fianna Fáil. The revised programme for Government and the original programme for Government from 2007 promised a lot in terms of electoral reform. It makes for interesting reading to look back on those programmes and to see how far advanced the Minister, Deputy Gormley, and his party is in terms of the implementation of those promises. A common denominator with the Minister and his policy on electoral reform is that he announces many things and speaks about many objectives, but he has very little to show in terms of implementation, approval and achievement to date. He has lined up a considerable amount of promised legislation in the queue for the remainder of the year in the area of electoral reform, such as the Bill to elect a mayor in Dublin and the establishment of an independent electoral commission, but they must come second to other pieces of legislation that are exercising him and his party members such as the Dog Breeding Establishments Bill, the animal welfare Bill and the planning and development Bill. From listening to the most recent pronouncements of the Minister on electoral reform, it appears that we will have a busy time. However, he is unlikely to achieve the objectives he has set out in spite of his statements and his best intentions.

The modest proposal Fine Gael has put forward is to take the decision of when by-elections should be held out of party politics. All parties would have a view on that so why not exercise some discretion in favour of the people who under the Constitution are sovereign, not Parliament? We are in the House because the people elected us to be here. Every constituency is entitled to have full representation based on the tolerance levels that are enshrined in the Constitution and in law. We must give people an opportunity through the only mechanism they have at the moment to put people into this House arising from a casual vacancy, namely, a by-election. We suggest by-elections should be held within six months.

I offered the Minister an opportunity to say what he thought about the timescale but he chose, as the original champion of electoral reform, to deny any opportunity to express a view on whether it was a good or bad idea. He came up with an important reason that he could not support a by-election, namely, it could not be achieved or implemented because of national emergencies or perhaps it was natural disasters. The only national emergency that could occur politically for the Minister, Deputy Gormley, and his partners in government at the moment is that we would have an election. That would be a disaster and a national emergency. That is what the Minister is referring to because he does not want an election, as Deputy Ring has eloquently pointed out. That is the last thing he wants. I suggest that the Minister of State, Deputy Finneran, would be in agreement with the Minister, because Fianna Fáil would not want too many elections no more than anyone would like an election. Nevertheless, the people in Donegal South-West, Waterford and Dublin South are entitled to full representation. That is why we are giving an opportunity to ensure that a by-election would be held within a certain defined timeframe.

The contribution of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, last night was pathetic. He could not bring himself to say the Bill was worth considering and that he would bring forward his own proposals. He talked about a speech he made three years ago on electoral reform to set up an independent electoral commission and how we would manage political parties, fund them, monitor elections and compile a register of electors. That is all he had to say. He said by-elections were bad because they could change the balance of Parliament and cause a general election. That is his view of democracy and the democratic representation in each constituency. The Minister's bluff on electoral reform has been called. He has been found out at last. He has no policy. He has no legislation or no timeframe for the implementation of any proposal and he has no agreement with the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party on electoral reform. His programme for Government, therefore, is meaningless. His revised programme for Government is also meaningless and the contents of the programme for Government have no mandate from the people.

I was interested to see what the Green Party said before it went into government. I found an interesting reference to ethics in public office. "Action is badly needed to restore public confidence in a political system that is widely seen to be operating on the basis of ‘You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours'". We now know that the Minister is prepared to scratch the back of his partners in government if they will scratch his.

That is all he will have to do.

That will be the yardstick by which both parties will be judged whenever there is an election, be it a by-election or a general election. I commend the Bill to the House.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 68; Níl, 72.

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Bannon, James.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Behan, Joe.
  • Breen, Pat.
  • Broughan, Thomas P.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burke, Ulick.
  • Burton, Joan.
  • Carey, Joe.
  • Clune, Deirdre.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Coonan, Noel J.
  • Costello, Joe.
  • Coveney, Simon.
  • Crawford, Seymour.
  • Creed, Michael.
  • D’Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, John.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • Enright, Olwyn.
  • Feighan, Frank.
  • Ferris, Martin.
  • Flanagan, Terence.
  • Gilmore, Eamon.
  • Hayes, Brian.
  • Hayes, Tom.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hogan, Phil.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Kehoe, Paul.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Lynch, Ciarán.
  • Lynch, Kathleen.
  • McCormack, Pádraic.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McGrath, Finian.
  • McHugh, Joe.
  • McManus, Liz.
  • Mitchell, Olivia.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Neville, Dan.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
  • O’Donnell, Kieran.
  • O’Dowd, Fergus.
  • O’Keeffe, Jim.
  • O’Mahony, John.
  • O’Shea, Brian.
  • O’Sullivan, Jan.
  • O’Sullivan, Maureen.
  • Penrose, Willie.
  • Perry, John.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Ring, Michael.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • Sheehan, P.J.
  • Sherlock, Seán.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Stanton, David.
  • Tuffy, Joanna.
  • Upton, Mary.
  • Varadkar, Leo.
  • Wall, Jack.

Níl

  • Ahern, Dermot.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Ahern, Noel.
  • Andrews, Barry.
  • Aylward, Bobby.
  • Blaney, Niall.
  • Brady, Áine.
  • Brady, Cyprian.
  • Brady, Johnny.
  • Browne, John.
  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Calleary, Dara.
  • Carey, Pat.
  • Collins, Niall.
  • Conlon, Margaret.
  • Connick, Seán.
  • Coughlan, Mary.
  • Cregan, John.
  • Cuffe, Ciarán.
  • Curran, John.
  • Devins, Jimmy.
  • Dooley, Timmy.
  • Fahey, Frank.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Fitzpatrick, Michael.
  • Fleming, Seán.
  • Flynn, Beverley.
  • Gogarty, Paul.
  • Gormley, John.
  • Grealish, Noel.
  • Hanafin, Mary.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Haughey, Seán.
  • Healy-Rae, Jackie.
  • Hoctor, Máire.
  • Kelly, Peter.
  • Kenneally, Brendan.
  • Kennedy, Michael.
  • Killeen, Tony.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • Lenihan, Conor.
  • Lowry, Michael.
  • McDaid, James.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • McGrath, Mattie.
  • McGrath, Michael.
  • McGuinness, John.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Mulcahy, Michael.
  • Nolan, M.J.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
  • O’Brien, Darragh.
  • O’Connor, Charlie.
  • O’Dea, Willie.
  • O’Donoghue, John.
  • O’Flynn, Noel.
  • O’Hanlon, Rory.
  • O’Keeffe, Edward.
  • O’Rourke, Mary.
  • O’Sullivan, Christy.
  • Power, Peter.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Ryan, Eamon.
  • Sargent, Trevor.
  • Scanlon, Eamon.
  • Smith, Brendan.
  • Treacy, Noel.
  • Wallace, Mary.
  • White, Mary Alexandra.
  • Woods, Michael.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies John Curran and John Cregan.
Question declared lost.
Barr
Roinn