It is proposed to take No. 20, Merchant Shipping Bill 2009 — Report Stage (resumed) and No. 21, Adoption Bill 2009 [Seanad] — Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage. Private Members' business shall be No. 35, Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2010 — Second Stage (resumed), the proceedings of which, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. tonight.
Order of Business
There are no proposals to be put to the House. I call Deputy Kenny.
I have a number of questions for the Taoiseach. The Government has decided that the VHI should be sold. This will require European approval in respect of recapitalisation and a community weighting system. Is the Government engaged in preparatory work to connect with the Europe in this regard?
During the course of his speech on the setting up of NAMA, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Lenihan, said the Government would introduce legislation on banking resolution, legislation that would give the ability to wind down a bank. What is the position on that?
It is fair to say that over the years the Committee of Public Accounts has been recognised as being one of the foremost committees of the Dáil. It has always been commended for its non-partisan examination of Government expenditure in the interests of seeking efficiency and value for money. The Chairman of the committee, Deputy Bernard Allen, has pointed out that under its current structure, the committee is strangled and powerless, unable to do the work it wants to do. The Government has said, and it is indicated by the absence again of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, that the Comptroller and Auditor General would be enabled to carry out an audit in respect of activities at the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, to be followed by an examination by the Committee of Public Accounts. The Chairman of the committee has pointed out that the committee has less authority than a citizen in respect of the Freedom of Information Act and the Data Protection Act. In the light of the Chairman's comment and given the impartiality of the committee and its record over the years, I ask the Taoiseach whether the Government is giving any consideration to amending the Freedom of Information Act 1997-2003 and an exemption from the Data Protection Act 1988-2003? In other words to give the Committee of Public Accounts the opportunity and capacity to do its work as the Oireachtas originally envisaged.
According to the renewed programme for Government it is the intention of the Government to seek the approval of the Oireachtas to amend Article 41.2 of the Constitution, namely, to broaden the reference "woman in the home" to the important "parent in the home". Has any work been done on giving effect to that commitment in the programme for Government?
I am not aware that any work has been done in respect of the Committee of Public Accounts issue. The question there is of enabling the Comptroller and Auditor General to conduct a report which report is then considered by the committee in the normal way. It is an important committee and conducts its——
There is a stranglehold.
In fairness to Deputy Allen, I have never known him to be a person who has succumbed to strangulation in any of the activities in which he has been engaged in any committees of this House.
The committee was caught before with FÁS.
His ability to widen his shoulders and pull up his sleeves is well-known to everybody, even——
It was caught on the issue of the redacted information.
It is not a matter I can deal with off the top of my head. The matter the Deputy referred to was that the Comptroller and Auditor General would produce a report and the Committee for Public Accounts would consider it in the normal way.
I apologise. Deputy Kenny's first question related to a referendum on the issue of Article 41. As he knows, the concentration at present has been on dealing with the report submitted in recent months by the all-party committee relating to children's rights. I will let the Deputy know whether any work has been done on the commitment in the programme for Government. These matters are usually taken very carefully and steadily.
In regard to——
The banking resolution and the VHI.
Having made the Government decision and having announced it last week work will now proceed in engaging with the European Commission and within that Department and the Department of Finance, to get the necessary financial advice as to how to proceed with the various decisions that have been taken. The Deputy can take it that this work can begin now, based on the Government's decision.
What about the banking resolution?
I understand the Central Bank (No. 2) Bill is due before the end of this year. The Minister has indicated that will deal with other matters over and above what has been dealt with in the Bill before the Oireachtas.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach about three matters. I refer to a debate on the continuing banking crisis, in particular, the Taoiseach's confirmation that he anticipates a further €8 billion going into Anglo Irish Bank. Earlier this week I asked the Taoiseach whether the Government would provide, between now and the recess, time for a debate on the position regarding the banks, particularly those such as Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide which are such an enormous cost to the Irish taxpayer.
In regard to the banking reports by Messrs. Regling and Watson and by the Governor of the Central Bank, Mr. Honohan, which are now with the Government for two days, will the Taoiseach clarify the timetable? The net point is that the terms of reference of the scoping reports do not refer to this and exclude the period of, for example, the first capital injections into AIB and Bank of Ireland and the nationalisation of Anglo Irish Bank. What is the timeframe? Can the Taoiseach confirm when these reports will be released? What good reason is there for not releasing these reports this week so that the Opposition parties, in particular, would have an opportunity to study them and the Dáil could come up with terms of reference that would allow all the events involved in the banking crisis, including the vast sums of money going into Anglo Irish Bank, the night of the guarantee and its aftermath to be discussed?
Can we have a specific debate on Anglo Irish Bank? Will the Taoiseach elaborate on when, exactly, the banking reports will be published and whether there will be an opportunity to discuss the scope of the terms of reference of the banking inquiry?
There are two other related matters about which I wish to ask the Taoiseach. I am sure the Taoiseach and everybody else is aware that arising from the construction and property crash there are very many sub-contractors around the country who have been left bankrupt, in some cases as a consequence of not being paid for jobs they had completed. These are mostly the small and medium sized people in the construction industry who, if they had not had this bust in regard to debts owed to them by bigger developers and contractors, would be able to pick themselves up and motor on and stay viable, albeit with some difficulty.
A Private Members' Bill has been presented to the Seanad that tries to make tight arrangements to ensure that subcontractors get some payment and are not left, as is happening at the moment, holding the baby for the bigger developers who blew the house on the boom. The entrepreneur Seán Gallagher from "Dragons' Den" is on the public record as saying that he has spoken with both the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Innovation, Deputy O'Keeffe, and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Lenihan, about legislation to improve——
Please, we are frittering away.
——the position of subcontractors. Does the Government propose to support the Private Members' Bill before the Seanad or does it propose to introduce its own legislation?
On a related matter concerning the property bust, the situation——
Deputy, time.
I will be very brief. I refer to the situation in respect of people in management companies. For many of those in management company situations or in estates that are only partially completed, a coterie of people who, because they cannot pay are not paying the management fees. Management companies are in an extraordinary mess. I raised this——
Deputy, you really must this bring this matter up directly with the line Minister, not with the Taoiseach.
I have raised this on a number of occasions.
It is too much to expect on the Order of Business.
I shall finish now.
Yes, I shall allow the Deputy to finish.
I would have finished in any case. The problem is that by the end of this year there will be another dimension to the entire area of property problems in the economy that relate to the lack of legislation and the non-provision for management companies.In constituencies such as mine, there are tens of thousands of people in managed estates and——
Deputy, we cannot have this detailed submission on the Order of Business.
——there is no legislation. Will the Taoiseach say whether his Government proposes to deal with the problems of subcontractors and whether he proposes to legislate on this? When will the management company legislation be concluded?
We cannot have a mini-Question Time now.
The management company issue was finalised in the Seanad yesterday and can come back to the House in due course. The Deputy may speak to the Whips about when that can be achieved, as it is an important issue for the House to consider.
On the banking inquiry, the Minister for Finance will bring the reports that come to hand this week to Government next week for its consideration. Following that the Minister proposes to lay both reports before the Houses of the Oireachtas and they can be circulated to all Deputies and Senators.
The Minister for Finance also proposes to invite the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service to consider the reports and I understand the committee intends to invite the authors of both reports to appear before it. It should be emphasised that these are preliminary scoping reports intended to point the way to more detailed examination by a commission of investigation. The Minister for Finance will prepare terms of reference and a draft Government order to establish a statutory commission of investigation and the draft order will be put to both Houses of the Oireachtas for a vote in due course. The Minister previously indicated that the Government envisages that the commission of investigation will be established by the end of June 2010.
As the Deputy mentioned, the legislation on subcontractors was debated in the Seanad and the Minister indicated at the time that he would incorporate some of the points made, come forward with legislation and work to get a full and comprehensive response to the question. We are working on the matter.
What is the timeframe?
We cannot have a mini-Question Time on the Order of Business. I have allowed the Deputy considerable latitude as she is the acting party leader this morning.
Is there a timeframe on the subcontractors legislation? With regard to the debate on Anglo Irish Bank——
The Deputy should submit a parliamentary question to the line Minister.
——will the scoping inquiry include the nationalisation of Anglo Irish Bank and matters up to that point? The Regling and Watson report, along with the Honohan report, are merely scoping inquiries.
We need to move on as there is a list of people wishing to contribute.
They are limited and do not go beyond the bank guarantee. The inquiry will be of very little use if it does not go into all the events around the bank guarantee and its aftermath.
The Deputy should bring this up with the line Minister.
It should include events up to the nationalisation of Anglo Irish Bank. Is the Taoiseach proposing to keep the same timeframe in the inquiry?
We are on the Order of Business, not Question Time.
Will it be extended to include all events?
I will be short and to the point. Who are the coroners of the country answerable to?
It is a good question.
I am sure a parliamentary question would establish that information.
I am asking this with regard to the Coroners Bill.
The Deputy could submit a parliamentary question or write directly to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the matter.
Would it be the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform? That is the point I am trying to determine.
The Deputy could make a start there.
That is what I am trying to determine.
It was a good question.
It is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
The Taoiseach wants to help.
Being a solicitor, the Taoiseach wants to help.
I refer the Taoiseach to the speech he made in UCD on 20 May regarding a decade of commemorations. Will the Taoiseach facilitate a debate in the House before the summer recess on the subject because there are serious issues to be addressed, particularly with regard to two national monuments? These are the GPO, which is in public hands, and the Moore Street location, which is the subject of a major private development of approximately €2 billion, where the principal investor is in talks with NAMA. There is also the issue of the military archives.
Has a debate been promised on the matter?
I am seeking a debate and indicating the reasons it is important to have the debate.
It might be better to hold the reasons until the debate.
I am nearly finished. I was discussing the military archives in Cathal Brugha barracks, which have not been researched.
The Deputy is not in order.
This is pressing work.
The Deputy should deal with the line Minister, who is the first port of call. He could submit a parliamentary question.
The Taoiseach has taken a special interest in this. He made a major speech two weeks ago.
This is still not in order on the Order of Business.
We are entitled to request a debate.
The Deputy is endeavouring to initiate a debate on the matter, which is inappropriate on the Order of Business.
I was giving some basic reasons as to why a debate is necessary so we can be prepared for this decade of commemorations.
The debate has not been promised. The Deputy should put down a question to the Minister.
Will the Taoiseach respond and seek to facilitate a debate in this House and perhaps the other House so we can discuss the issues?
The Deputy has done well in registering his points.
We should debate issues of concern with regard to the decade of commemoration.
There is increasing concern among the horse racing and greyhound industry fraternity regarding on-line betting. Only last week, eight further bookmakers formed a consortium and went on-line as well. This has led to a major loss of revenue for the fund.
Is there promised legislation?
The Taoiseach promised legislation two weeks ago. It was a headline in The Irish Field. When will the legislation be introduced to this House? We will fully support the Taoiseach but there is a certain urgency about it because we are losing revenue every day to on-line betting.
Hear, hear.
It concerns both the greyhound and horse racing industry.
Is there promised legislation?
There is.
The Taoiseach promised it. When is it being introduced?
It is an important issue, as Deputy Bruton knows. Legislation is being prepared and will be brought to the House in the next session. We hope to have that legislation before the end of the year. With regard to Deputy Costello's comments, I thank him for referring to the speech I made in UCD, which set out the idea of commemoration over the next decade. Given the amount of legislation we have to discuss between now and the end of the session, we will not have the time for a full debate on the issue in plenary session. It may be open to some committee to discuss the matter. This is about ensuring we have as inclusive and comprehensive a set of commemorations as possible across the island.
With just five weeks to go in the session, will we reach the mental capacity Bill?
I understand it is to be published this session.
When will we see the White Paper which has been promised in respect of the new social levy and other tax measures planned by the Government? In the context of the 2011 budget, will we have a similar assessment of options like those in the McCarthy report so the Oireachtas can have a genuine debate on alternatives? Is the Taoiseach considering changing the format of the budget presentation so the Oireachtas can have more meaningful engagement in a year that will be particularly difficult but important?
The question of the work undertaken by the Minister regarding social contributions and how to look at the number of levies in place in order to pull together a more coherent system will be considered in the budgetary context. The Deputy would perhaps be best advised to address a parliamentary question directly to the Minister for Finance on the mechanics of the preparation and what way he intends to deal with this. It is a budgetary matter so I do not know the extent to which he can lay out the detail the Deputy might like sooner rather than later.
On the budgetary preparations, the McCarthy report came forward last year with a set of options which continue to form the basis for Government consideration on an ongoing basis. Some were taken in respect of the last budget and others will be considered in the context of continued rationalisation in the organisation of Government and the delivery of services. There is also a review of the local authority system, which will inform budgetary consideration as well.
As to the issue of a set of options being made available for consideration by various committees or, indeed, the House itself, these are matters that can be looked at for the purposes of having a debate that helps to facilitate a recognition of what exactly is the situation in this country. Despite good progress being made and deficits being stabilised, we now have to pursue a reduction policy that involves further decisions being considered. Once the choices are understood, perhaps the decisions can be better facilitated by Government in due course. I know there is an issue the Deputy raised, but a direct discussion between himself and the Minister for Finance would be more opportune.
It is a matter of the ordering of the business of the House. It is a legitimate question to be answered on the floor. The Minister has promised a White Paper or its equivalent on the social levy, so we should have an engagement in the Chamber as to how we organise business. I will pursue the matter with the Minister, but I will also pursue it with the Taoiseach occasionally. It is legitimate for him to order the way we deal with matters like the budget.
The Deputy knows the Minister well.
It is 63 days today since the Financial Regulator stopped Quinn Insurance from doing commercial business in the UK and Northern Ireland. Can we have a discussion on this matter——
We are going down an inappropriate tangent.
——through either the Central Bank (No. 2) Bill or the company law regulation Bill? People must be answerable for their decisions in their dealings with the general public.
Recently, we learned that, in spite of promises that surgical services would be maintained at Cavan hospital——
Not on the Order of Business.
It is on the Order of Business.
The line Minister is the Minister for Health and Children.
She never answers a question.
I am extremely sorry, but this matter is equally as important as any other issue.
Indeed. Will the Deputy raise it with the Minister?
We cannot get answers from her in any shape or form. When will the health information Bill be before the House so that we can get legal and correct answers to questions? We are not being told the truth.
We are making inquiries.
The health information Bill, I understand, should be published later this year. The Central Bank (No. 2) Bill, as I was saying earlier to Deputy Kenny, will more likely be later in the year as well. In fact, it will be later in the year.
Is the Taoiseach aware of the large number of jobs that will be lost or are under pressure in rural areas because the Government implemented a carbon tax that is driving agricultural contractors out of business? Many people who are qualified tractor drivers and so on work in this business.
This is very much out of order and inappropriate for the Order of Business.
All of those jobs will be lost in the coming months. There will also be bankruptcies because of the Green Party's involvement and the carbon tax.
Hear, hear.
Can anything be done during the coming months to change this situation, which——
The Deputy should pursue the issue by way of a supplementary question.
——is causing significant difficulties and will add to the job losses in——
We cannot have a debate on the issue on the Order of Business.
——in the constituencies of the Ceann Comhairle, the Taoiseach and almost every other Deputy?
Hear, hear.
Will the Deputy try asking the Minister a parliamentary question?
It is a considerable problem. No one has listened to us. Our side of the House has raised this matter several times, but the Government has turned a blind eye to it.
The Deputy is out of order. Will he resume his seat, please?
These are the Houses of Parliament and we are supposed to raise issues. Time should be set aside before those people go bankrupt.
When will the long-promised mental health Bill to amend the Mental Health Act 2001 be introduced in the House? In certain quarters, there is much concern about the need to bring the Act up to date.
I know the Deputy is interested in these matters. I understand that the earliest would be next year.
I wish to raise two issues. Apropos the points raised by Deputy Crawford in respect of questions to be answered by the Minister for Health and Children——
Deputy Durkan, please do not regurgitate this matter.
Please is right. I am a patient man and I know the Ceann Comhairle is as well.
Too patient probably.
My patience on this subject has run out. I know the Ceann Comhairle's patience is also about to run out, but will the Taoiseach for God's sake take some initiative to ensure that those who are inquiring about their health, where they are placed on a list or whether they will receive medical cards or rent support——
Deputy Durkan, please.
At best, there is a six-month waiting list in most places. The House can get no information.
We will move on to the Deputy's second query.
Could we have an answer to that one first?
The Taoiseach wanted to assist. As he stated,——
This is more appropriate to the line Minister.
In reply to me in the House, the Taoiseach stated this was a serious issue that needed to be addressed. When will it be dealt with? I am inviting the Taoiseach to address the issue.
Will the Deputy move on to the second point?
I will when I hear about that one.
The Deputy gave himself his answer.
The Deputy will need to pursue it by way of a parliamentary question.
From where will I get an answer to a parliamentary question?
The Deputy should raise the matter on the Adjournment.
It is catch-22.
(Interruptions).
When was the last time the Minister for Health and Children answered a parliamentary question?
Deputy Durkan should submit an item for consideration on the Adjournment.
Order.
Will the Taoiseach bring some order to the HSE?
Will Deputy Durkan move on to his second question, please?
Maybe we would get some answers then and the Ceann Comhairle would have order.
The Ceann Comhairle is doing neither the issue nor the House justice.
Nor the people.
The Taoiseach should deal with the issue now. I am inviting the Taoiseach to deal with it.
I am advising Deputy Durkan to move on to the second point. Alternatively, he will need to resume his seat.
How can the Ceann Comhairle look after his constituents and I look after mine if we cannot get answers to questions to the Minister for Health and Children?
Will the Deputy resume his seat?
He should sit down and stop going at the Chair.
The Deputy should resume his seat or move on to his second query, which hopefully will be on legislation.
I have raised an issue that is on the mind of everyone in the House with the exception of our friend from Cork who——
I will ask Deputy Durkan to leave the House if he does not resume his seat.
If the Ceann Comhairle wishes me to leave the House because the Taoiseach refuses to answer questions——
Will the Deputy resume his seat?
I used to have great respect for the Taoiseach.
This is not appropriate to the Order of Business. Deputy Durkan must resume his seat.
He and I are from neighbouring constituencies.
Will the Deputy resume his seat?
People from his constituency are attending my clinics about health issues. What has gone wrong?
I am sure.
Deputy Durkan is out of order on the Order of Business.
I am helping people from the constituency of the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, too.
I am sure.
Deputy Durkan should look after his own.
Does the Deputy have a second query for the Taoiseach?
I have.
Will the Deputy proceed to it, please?
I have asked at least eight times in the past six weeks about oft-promised legislation, namely, the vetting bureau Bill. The Taoiseach indicated its imminence several times. Like everything else in the House, an issue loses importance and urgency when the moment passes. Will the Taoiseach report on when this legislation is likely to be published and whether it will be passed before the end of this session?
No, it will not be passed before the end of this session. I believe it will be coming later this year.
I must say something.
The Deputy has received an answer to his query.
Unfortunately, the Taoiseach's answer is sad news, as the legislation is required urgently. Indeed, he indicated this, but it is now apparently no longer urgent.
This is a Second Stage speech.
Will the Deputy resume his seat?
I would hate to be called a nuisance,——
Deputy Durkan is a nuisance.
——but would the last person leaving please close the door? This Government——
If the Deputy does not resume his seat, I will need to ask him to leave the House.
——has abdicated its duties. It does not intend to do its job. This is appalling and disgraceful.
At a meeting with the Irish Pharmaceutical Union, IPU, this morning, it was alleged to me that we have reached a point at which people in long-term care and homeless hostels are not having their medical card numbers honoured.
That is right.
Under the previous situation, drugs were supplied once the hospital's number was on the prescription. Apparently, this is no longer the case. Will the Taoiseach tell the House whether this situation can be corrected by the Minister with immediate effect or by using the reference pricing for drugs Bill or the prescriptions Bill?
The Deputy knows his question is more appropriate to the line Minister. The Deputy is seeking detailed information.
I do not want to be a nuisance either.
No legislation is promised.
Will Deputy Reilly raise the matter with the line Minister?
When I ask parliamentary questions, I am getting a stock response.
There are ways other than through parliamentary questions.
Very few, unfortunately. The House will fall into complete disorder during the coming weeks——
I hope not. The Deputy's co-operation would be appreciated.
——unless Ministers take responsibility for their Departments and ensure that Deputies, who are elected by constituents, get answers to the questions they legitimately ask as part of their remit. The Constitution has been——
Will you bring up the matter with the line Minister? I call on Deputy Broughan.
A Cheann Comhairle, since you have occupied your esteemed office, you have turned down well over 100 questions at this stage. I am putting them together in a book and I was hoping the Taoiseach or Minister for Transport might launch it. The questions always refer to agencies under the Minister for Transport, such as the NRA and the RPA. I had a question down on the interconnector——
We cannot have a debate on this now. There are other fora for such matters to be discussed.
You turned down the question.
The Order of Business is not the appropriate time.
What are you doing to protect the rights of Deputies and the Opposition? We are asking questions and you are ruling them out of hand.
I merely have to keep order in the House. I am not in the business of making decisions. That is a matter for others.
What are you doing about it? You said you had some committee of reform. I used to be on the CPP as well. You said you were trying to reform all this, but you are turning the place into a farce.
Will you bring the matter up with your party Whip?
I am bringing it up with you, because you are the Chairman of this House and you have a duty to protect us and ensure that Deputy Durkan's question, Deputy Reilly's question and my question are all answered.
It is not in order to raise the matter in this manner on the Order of Business.
I have a very thick book on it at this stage.
Deputy Broughan, resume your seat please. I call on Deputy Burke.
The Minister for Health and Children has taken a vow of silence and the Taoiseach has decided to do the same thing.
You are protecting the Minister.
It would be great if the Deputy joined them.
You will have to withdraw that remark. I cannot allow that. I am not protecting any Minister. Will you withdraw the remark please?
I will withdraw the remark on this occasion, but will try to do something to protect the rights of Opposition Deputies?
You should bring the matter up with your party Whip.
We cannot do our work, because you will not let us do it.
I call on Deputy Burke.
Neither the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources nor the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will take responsibility for a very serious health and environmental risk that has been reported by the EPA at Tynagh Mines in Galway. It has been classed as a Grade 1 health risk. I call on the Taoiseach——
We cannot discuss this on the Order of Business.
You were good enough to allow this item on the Adjournment, and I received a 15 year-old reply. When I recently asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources about the issue, he told me he had no money and no responsibility. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will not take responsibility for it either. The only thing I can do is to ask the Taoiseach to indicate that——
You will have to find some other way to pursue this matter. We will have to move on to the Merchant Shipping Bill 2009.
Can this EPA report on mines be debated in this House? It will be shown in such a debate that somebody will have to take responsibility.
The Deputy has made his point on the matter.