Vol. 729 No. 4
1 Deputy Niall Collins asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will confirm that the co-operation between the police forces and justice Departments of North and South will be maintained at the unprecedented level set by the previous Government. [7164/11]
The Government is committed to maintaining the highest level of co-operation between the Garda and the Police Service of Northern Ireland, PSNI, and between my Department and the Northern Ireland Department of Justice. It is clear that by working together on matters of mutual concern and interest we can improve the lives of all the people on the island of Ireland.
Co-operation between the Garda Síochána and the PSNI remains at the highest level on all aspects of policing activity. Obviously, the appalling bomb attack in Omagh at the weekend, in which PSNI Constable Ronan Kerr was tragically killed, highlights once again the importance of the two police forces working together to counter the terrorist threat. I take the opportunity to reiterate the Government's total condemnation of that attack, as well as the commitment of the Garda Síochána to offer every support to the PSNI's efforts to bring those responsible to justice.
Operational policing co-operation is, of course, the responsibility of the Garda Commissioner and PSNI Chief Constable and their officers. As for meeting the threat posed by terrorists, I remind the House that the former Chief Constable stated publicly that some of his officers were alive thanks to pre-emptive Garda operations. The current Chief Constable has reiterated the high quality and importance of cross-Border co-operation and stated the quality of this co-operation is even higher than that between neighbouring police forces in Great Britain. The two police forces recently launched a new cross-Border policing strategy, covering areas including cross-Border investigations and operations, intelligence-sharing and security, information and communications technology and emergency planning. Under the 2002 police co-operation agreement, protocols have been signed that provide for the implementation of a programme of personnel exchanges and secondments between the Garda Síochána and the PSNI.
Structured co-operation between my Department and the Northern Ireland Department of Justice takes place under the auspices of the intergovernmental agreement on co-operation in criminal justice matters. The agreement provides for regular meetings between me and the Northern Ireland Minister for Justice to discuss criminal justice matters. One of my first actions following my appointment as Minister was to meet my counterpart in Northern Ireland, Mr. David Ford. We reaffirmed our commitment to continuing co-operation between our two Departments on these issues. I was accompanied at that meeting by the Garda Commissioner, while Mr. Ford was accompanied by the Chief Constable of the PSNI, Mr. Matt Baggott.
Overall, I have no doubt that working together in such areas as criminal justice policy, enforcement policy and the sharing of expertise and best practice can only be to the benefit of all the people on this island.
I congratulate the Minister on his appointment and join him in reiterating our condemnation of the recent attack that resulted in the death of Constable Kerr. I again offer my condolences to the Kerr family, as well as those of my constituents in Limerick, many of whom expressed to me their horror and revulsion. The programme for Government contains a commitment that all necessary resources will be given to the Garda Síochána to deal with the threat posed by dissidents and paramilitary groups. Will the Minister outline, in broad terms, the type and cost of such resources provided? In addition, will he provide Members with an overview of the level of co-operation between the Department of Justice and Equality and the Garda Síochána in the investigation into the death of Constable Kerr? For example, how many gardaí have been allocated to the investigation on a full-time basis?
The second part of the Deputy's question is, of course, an operational matter between the Garda Síochána and the PSNI. As for the first part of the question, there is absolutely no question but that the Garda will be fully supported in its efforts to counter the activities of the criminal terrorists who robbed Constable Kerr of his life. The programme for Government makes clear the Government's commitment to ensuring the necessary resources will be available to the Garda Commissioner and his officers and I reiterate that commitment today. I met the Commissioner shortly after my appointment and confirmed to him the Government's absolute commitment to ensure he would have available to him all resources required in dealing with the threat posed. I speak regularly with him and there was a full security briefing following the weekend's atrocity. On Monday he briefed the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and me.
I had visited Garda Headquarters only the previous Friday to discuss the issue of criminal terrorists and a broad range of other issues in the criminal justice area and matters relating to the Garda. The Commissioner has assured me that he has the resources he requires to deal with those who still are intent on violence and attempting to disrupt the peace process and return us to the past. The Garda, in full co-operation with the PSNI, will not let up in bringing to bear the full pressure of the law on those who are seeking to drag us all back to a violent past. This was reiterated by me in my conversations with the Minister, Mr. Ford, on Saturday evening shortly after the atrocity that resulted in the death of Constable Kerr. At the weekend the Commissioner stated his officers' solidarity with their colleagues in the PSNI and the determination of the two organisations to work together to bring to justice those responsible. He will, of course, continue to have the Government's full and determined support in this regard.
As the Deputy is aware, there have been some developments in the investigations taking place in Northern Ireland into the death of Constable Kerr, although it would not be appropriate for me to comment on these matters in this House. I note that when I attended the constable's funeral yesterday, in the company of the Taoiseach, we reiterated the support of the Government and the Garda. Moreover, the Commissioner also met the Chief Constable of the PSNI, Mr. Matt Baggott. All I can state is that the Government is absolutely resolute to provide all necessary assistance and help in counteracting the serious threat posed.
2 Deputy Jonathan O’Brien asked the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to ensure that front line policing services are protected or enhanced in the time ahead. [7167/11]
I am firmly committed to supporting the Garda Síochána in prioritising operational front line policing. This commitment is very much reflected in the Government's programme for national recovery which sets the objective of ensuring administrative duties are carried out by civilian staff to free up highly trained gardaí for the prevention and detection of crime. It also calls for a higher priority to be attached to community policing and, within available resources, for a higher Garda visibility in those local neighbourhoods worst affected by anti-social behaviour. It also recognises that the threat posed by criminal terrorist groups cannot be underestimated, a threat made very real by the callous murder of PSNI Constable Ronan Kerr, to which I have referred, and pledges to foster the continuing strong relationships between the Garda and the PSNI.
The Government's programme recognises and supports front line policing. The programme also emphasises the importance of public sector reform. In that regard, I note that the Garda has drawn up a reform action plan under the Croke Park agreement. A key aim of this plan is to implement a revised roster system to more closely match the availability of Garda personnel with fluctuating policing demands. This is exactly the kind of practical reform that has the potential to enhance front line policing and it will have my full support.
The Minister has mentioned the introduction of civilians or non-gardaí to undertake some administrative work. Will the Minister provide further details about the number of people currently behind desks who will be put back onto the front line?
I will focus on one aspect of Garda resources, namely, the Garda vetting programme. The Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, and Deputy Dara Murphy from my constituency are present. They will be well aware of the many community and voluntary groups in our constituency that are facing delays of up to four months in trying to get people cleared to work in that sector. This is having significant effects on the community groups and the individuals concerned. Does the Minister have any plan to try to accelerate the process?
Civilianisation enables the direct replacement of sworn members who are engaged in exclusively clerical, administrative or technical duties with civilian staff. In many other cases, however, it allows sworn members who would otherwise need to devote substantial parts of their working days performing administrative duties, such as data entry about crime incidents into the PULSE system, to focus exclusively on front line policing duties. Civilian staff may also be recruited to perform new or expanded administrative, managerial and professional support roles in the Garda Síochána, for example, as crime analysts or IT specialists. These roles did not exist within the organisation until recently. In my meeting with the Garda Commissioner, we discussed further the use of civilians in the context of other Garda functions. This matter is now under review and I hope additional gardaí whose work can be undertaken by civilians will be returned to front line services.
The Garda vetting unit does an extraordinary job. Frankly, it is somewhat overwhelmed by the number of applications to it. There has been a substantial increase in the number of applications for vetting. The average timeframe for determining most applications is between ten and 12 weeks, but this is too long. It is an issue about which I complained from the Opposition side of the House more than one year ago. Additional staff have been recruited to the Garda vetting office and sanction is being given for a further ten staff to be recruited. The further development of the office was a subject of my discussion with the Garda Commissioner last Friday. We are examining what steps might be taken to provide additional staff in the vetting office by way of civilians, not by way of gardaí. A number of new arrangements that I hope can be implemented pursuant to the Croke Park agreement would facilitate this.
In terms of freeing up gardaí, does the Minister have concrete numbers in mind? He has a number of proposals, but does he have a figure in his head for the number of gardaí he would like to see put back onto front line services?
I do not want at this stage to put a definitive figure on it because it is an issue that the Garda Commissioner is examining. I expect we will have a further conversation about the matter in the not-too-distant future. When the proposals we are considering are finalised, I will be happy to bring the matter before the House again.
3 Deputy Clare Daly asked the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to remedy the problems of slopping out and overcrowding within the prison system; if he will grant a debate on the findings on prison conditions contained in the recent report published on the 10th of February of the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, CPT; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7079/11]
I am committed to addressing the issue of in-cell sanitation in line with the Government programme for national recovery. The recent report of the Council of Europe's Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, CPT, acknowledged positive developments in the Irish prison system, such as the modernisation of the prison estate, the provision of additional spaces and the investment in rehabilitation services for prisoners. However, it was critical of a number of areas, including overcrowding and the continuing practice of slopping out in some of our prisons.
The latest report of the Inspector of Prisons and Places of Detention on Mountjoy Prison, which became available on 24 March and we published this week, points to a sea change for the better in many respects. I will be supporting the prison's governor, Mr. Ned Whelan, and his staff in pursuing further improvements.
As matters currently stand, 72% of the prisoner accommodation has in-cell sanitation. I am informed that this will rise to in excess of 80% when the extension to the Midlands Prison, currently under construction, is opened in 2012. The project under way in the basement of C wing at Mountjoy Prison, which I saw when I visited the prison, will result in an additional 36 cells with in-cell sanitation coming on stream by mid-2011. The Irish Prison Service also recently awarded a contract to provide in-cell sanitation in the remaining 74 cells on that wing. Depending on the findings of a post project appraisal, the Prison Service will consider installing in-cell sanitation facilities in the remaining cells of that prison. The Prison Service is also currently appraising the logistical, financial, operational and other aspects of an outline proposal to provide in-cell sanitation in all cells in Cork Prison and all remaining cells in Limerick Prison that do not have such sanitation. This appraisal will be informed by the evaluation of the Mountjoy C wing project.
I will not be able to resolve the issue of cell sanitation overnight. In the short few weeks I have been in the job, we have made some progress. Cell sanitation has been a problem in our system for decades. However, I have just this week established a four-person committee to examine the need for new prison accommodation and to advise by 1 July whether work on the site at Thornton Hall should proceed. Its terms of reference specifically require it to take into account the need for an adequate stock of accommodation that meets required standards, including in particular in-cell sanitation. The terms also require the committee to look at alternatives to custody.
I would be happy to participate in a debate on the findings on prison conditions contained in the CPT report whether it be arranged for Private Members' time or otherwise, but I have to leave the arrangements for the provision of time for a debate to the Whips. I suggest that, if we do hold such a debate, it should have regard to the recently published Mountjoy report.
I welcome the Minister's publication of the report and the considerable discussion on this crucial issue in recent days. As the Minister stated, 72% of prisoner accommodation has in-cell sanitation, which means that 28% does not. The Minister was not in government, but we now recognise that this has been a problem since the mid-1990s. Making people in overcrowded conditions slop out every morning is a clear violation of basic human rights.
I note the Minister's comments about the pilot scheme under way in Mountjoy Prison, but the practice is continuing in Limerick and Cork. I might have misheard, but no definite date for the work's completion was given. There has been some inching forward. It cannot happen overnight, but we need a timeframe in respect of the three prisons primarily affected by this issue. Measures have been suggested that could alleviate the effects of slopping out in the short term, including toilet patrols during the night and so on. This would be an important step.
I am glad the Minister has initiated a review of Thornton Hall, which has already been a significant waste of public money. We will see what its outcome will be. The solution lies in legislation that views imprisonment as a last resort, not in doubling or trebling prison spaces, a practice that must end. I look forward to seeing the report in July.
I agree with the Deputy's view that imprisonment should be a last resort, but there are some very bad and violent people in respect of whom, to protect the community, the only option is a sentence of imprisonment when a conviction is obtained.
I agree with the Deputy's view regarding in-cell sanitation. It is a view I expressed from her side of the House. Within our prison system, all cells should have sanitation. Originally, the view was that it was not possible to provide it in Mountjoy Prison. When this matter was further examined, it became clear that such sanitation appears to be possible throughout the prison. The pilot scheme being conducted in C wing is to ensure the feasibility of the project. If it works out as we expect, the next step will be to seek the resources to extend in-cell sanitation throughout Mountjoy Prison. I am very conscious of the conditions in the other two prisons the Deputy named. That is an issue I hope we will have an opportunity to address within the constraints of the resources available to the State.
4 Deputy Niall Collins asked the Minister for Justice and Equality the steps he is taking to ensure no reduction in Garda numbers and his plans on Garda recruitment in 2011. [7165/11]
I do not want to upset the Deputy on our first Question Time.
Not before we even start.
I congratulate him and wish him well in his position as my opposite number.
That is only this week.
This is a rather odd question and is what would be termed, in the lexicon of the United States and a language with which my father is familiar — Yiddish — as one of the best examples of chutzpah I can find. It is difficult to take the Deputy's question seriously as the previous Government, led by the Deputy's party, in its National Recovery Plan 2011–2014 published late last year, required Garda strength to be reduced from its then level of around 14,500 to 13,000 by the end of 2014 as part of a general reduction in public service numbers. That was part and parcel of the EU and IMF framework plan which the previous Government signed up to. Moreover, the plan prescribed a reduction from 14,500 to 13,500 by 31 December 2011 without the plan, or any subsequent initiative, by the outgoing Government detailing proposed steps to effect such a reduction. Effectively, it envisaged a reduction of the Garda force by 1,000 in the space of 12 months without explaining how that would be achieved. There was no initiative taken by the outgoing Government to facilitate this achievement.
This Government has its own overall target for a reduction in public service numbers, as set out in the programme for national recovery, and I will be discussing with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and my other Cabinet colleagues the details of how this will be applied across the various parts of the public service. The outcome of this discussion and the rate of Garda retirements, which has fluctuated significantly in recent years, will determine when Garda recruitment will recommence. It will also determine the manner in which the objectives set by the Deputy's party, when in Government, of reducing the numbers of gardaí by 1,000 may be achieved.
There is no getting away from the reality that public expenditure and public service numbers must be reduced but I am determined, as are all my Cabinet colleagues, that this will be accompanied by real and substantive reform that will make the delivery of public services more efficient and cost effective. Our programme for national recovery recognises that a key objective of this reform is the protection of front line services, and I regard that as a priority for Garda reform. I am very anxious to ensure that if numbers are reduced, the current services are maintained.
I thank the Minister for his reply and opening comments. I am shadowing the Minister for this week at least but next week may bring something else for me. We must wait and see. I recognise what was contained in the four year programme published prior to the election. The Government parties gave a commitment in the programme for Government to retain a strong and efficient police force and at the same time there has been an indication that it is intended to reduce public service numbers by 25,000. Is the Government committed to reducing the Garda force by 1,000 over the course of the Government's term as outlined in the programme for Government?
With regard to Garda recruitment and training and balancing the reduction in numbers and retirements, when will the next intake of trainees be taken into Templemore? People have applied to join the force and have been vetted but they have been put into a holding cell, so to speak. They are ready to be brought to Templemore to train. When will the next batch be brought in and will the Minister confirm his intention to reduce the number in the force by 1,000?
The Deputy correctly states that the programme for Government commits to a strong and efficient police force and it is our commitment to maintain such a force. With regard to numbers we are considering the implications of the EU and IMF agreement and I have an obligation in my Department to meet the financial estimates and not to over-reach in that regard. The Garda Commissioner must also meet his financial targets. I cannot say at this stage exactly what the position will be with Garda numbers at the end of this year. As it stands, there is an obligation to effect the reduction which the Deputy's party committed this State to in the agreement with the EU and IMF.
With regard to recruitment issues, in February last year the former Minister, Dermot Ahern, advertised for Garda recruits and by June there were 400 on a potential panel to go to Templemore. Without making an announcement, the former Minister put all 400 into cold storage. Where there is a commitment to reduce Garda numbers and the finances of the State are constrained, I cannot at this stage indicate when new recruitment might take place other than to indicate that I am anxious that there would be an influx of new young people into the Garda force over a period. I do not see any likelihood of new recruitment during 2011. Beyond that all I can say is the matter is under review.
5 Deputy Jonathan O’Brien asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will consider bringing forward sentencing guidelines for the Judiciary to deal with inconsistencies in the sentencing policy of judges. [7168/11]
The traditional approach to sentencing is for the Oireachtas to lay down the maximum penalty and for a court, having considered all the circumstances of the case, to impose an appropriate penalty up to that maximum. There are a small number of cases, however, where statute has created important exceptions to this approach. Mandatory sentencing requirements apply most notably for murder, firearms and misuse of drugs offences. There are other provisions relating to drug trafficking and firearms offences where a presumptive mandatory minimum sentence applies. Where the court is satisfied that there are exceptional and specific circumstances which would make a particular minimum sentence unjust, a different sentence can be applied, and we have seen instances of the courts doing this. The type of circumstances which a court may consider would include whether and when the accused pleaded guilty and whether an accused assisted the investigation of the offence.
The Deputy will appreciate that judges are independent in the matter of sentencing as they are in other matters concerning the exercise of judicial functions, subject only to the Constitution and the law. Of its own volition, the Judiciary established a committee, led by Mrs. Justice Susan Denham of the Supreme Court, to oversee the development of an electronic system to gather information about the range of sentences and other penalties that have been imposed for particular types of offences across court jurisdictions. The resulting website, the Irish sentencing information system, ISIS, became operational as a pilot in August 2010. This publicly accessible resource includes statistics on sentencing, synopses of relevant court judgments and access to a database on actual sentences imposed in various crimes and cases. It provides a qualitative overview and a snapshot of how the courts treat offences, who committed them and the circumstances in which they took place. It also provides references to leading cases on sentencing, summaries of particular judgments of the Court of Criminal Appeal in the area of sentencing law and links to the judgments of that court and academic materials on the subject of sentencing. The website has the potential in time to be a valuable tool not only for members of the Judiciary but also for lawyers, researchers and those of us concerned with the needs of victims and their families. I understand that ISIS will be evaluated after it has been operating for some time.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House.
It is important to make the point, when discussing sentencing, that the Director of Public Prosecutions may apply to the Court of Criminal Appeal to review a sentence he regards as unduly lenient. The improved access to sentencing precedents and practice provided by ISIS will also assist the DPP in that task.
The Deputy may be aware that my Department is engaged in a public consultation process to develop a White Paper on crime with a view to developing a policy framework for future strategies to combat and prevent crime. Part of the consultation process focused on criminal sanctions, during the course of which sentencing guidelines were discussed. There was no consensus on how such guidelines might operate without undermining judicial independence and flexibility. The prevailing view, with which I agree, is that judicial independence is crucial and should be safeguarded. However, the Law Reform Commission has been asked to consider and, if appropriate, recommend reforms in the law in relation to mandatory sentencing. The commission will consider the use of mandatory sentences for offences in general terms along with approaches based on ranges of sentences. I welcome that the commission intends to publish a consultation paper on this subject later this year.
I thank the Minister for his answer. During the previous debate I gave an example of inconsistencies and frustrations which arise from them. In my constituency a convicted heroin dealer, caught with the largest drugs seizure of its time in Cork, was given a suspended sentence whereas a person who failed to pay a fishing fine got four days in Cork Prison. Those inconsistencies frustrate the public.
I take on board the Minister's comments about the website and recognise the independence of the Judiciary in handing down sentences. When a judge is appointed to a court, there is no obligation on him to attend refresher courses or up-skill, which is a failing. There should be some opportunity for judges to attend refresher courses and seminars. There is a perception, which is a true reflection of some judges, that they live in ivory towers and do not know what is happening on the ground. This has an impact on communities.
I urge the Minister to ensure that sentencing policy is consistent and that people can again have some faith in it.
It is important that there is consistency in sentencing policy. In my experience, court reports of what occurred in court and the sentences imposed are often incomplete. In many cases, where sentences appear to be inconsistent they are different because of the background circumstances in a particular case. I discovered that when one goes into this in more detail, frequently there is less inconsistency than may have appeared on the surface.
However, it is important to have consistency. Funding is made available to the Judiciary for continuing judicial training, an area in which it can address issues of consistency in sentencing. This is an issue in respect of which, as Minister, I cannot interfere because of the independence of the Judiciary but I believe it is important to maintain public respect for our court system and our criminal justice system, that sentencing should be consistent and when sentences are imposed explanations should be given regarding the nature of those sentences in order that they can be fully understood.
