Order of Business

It is proposed to take No. 13a, motion re statement of Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission 2013; and No. 19, statements on the economy (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Oral Questions; No. 13a shall be decided without debate; the proceedings in relation to No. 19 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.30 p.m. today, and the order shall resume thereafter with Topical Issues; and the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 6 November 2012.

Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 13a without debate agreed to?

Only those who represent parties can object to the proposal.

It is almost scandalous that the Government would wish to push through this Estimate without debate. The Estimate covers all the expenses associated with the operation of the Houses of the Oireachtas, including the salaries of Members and office holders, expenses and allowances. These are the very things that Members of this House examine in respect of other sectors. They pick over the minutiae of such expenses when they relate to gardaí, nurses or teachers.

Deputy McDonald did that in the Committee of Public Accounts on Tuesday.

It is unacceptable that the Estimate is being put through the Dáil on the nod. We need a full debate on remuneration, allowances and expenses as they pertain to us. This the forum for such a debate. We object in the strongest of terms to the taking of this motion without debate.

Was the Deputy wasting her time on Tuesday?

We reject the proposal to take this motion without debate. It should be fully debated in the interests of transparency and of the public.

Well done for jumping on the bandwagon.

It is only fair and proper that it be debated, irrespective of how many bandwagons my friends to the right jumped from over the past 18 months.

To the right is right.

I object strongly to the proposal to take the motion without debate. Everybody knows that the public is angry about what they are being made to face. They are required to count every cent and they are fearful of what they may lose.

What about Deputy Boyd Barrett's leader's allowance?

What about his allowances?

Deputy Boyd Barrett is entitled to make a short statement on behalf of his party.

He got €142,000.

Please allow the Deputy to make a statement without interruption.

People are fearful about the forthcoming budget and every cent is being scrutinised. Many are living in poverty. It is understandable that the public should demand full transparency and accountability for expenditure relating to this House.

For fixing the Deputy's car.

Independent Deputies have attempted to raise serious issues about expenditure on staff and allowances from which party members can benefit but Independent Members cannot. These issues should be debated and scrutinised in Dáil Éireann in full public view.

That is incredible from someone who received €142,000.

Why are expenses not vouched?

Where are the Deputy's receipts?

I do not believe this.

What did he spend it on?

Why are the Deputies opposite so afraid of debate?

What did he spend it on? He got enough of it.

Why are expenses not vouched?

The Deputies opposite keep shouting, but we are the ones calling for a debate on these issues.

I ask Deputies to stop shouting.

We want a debate. Let us have it out in the open.

How much does it cost for the Deputy to get excited?

His €40,000 could be in danger.

Give it back.

Please allow the Tánaiste to reply.

I understand this motion is required to be passed by the end of October and this is the last opportunity to do so. I propose that the motion be taken for that reason. However, the Government is agreeable to a debate on the Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas. We will arrange through the Whips for that debate to take place at the earliest opportunity.

After the event.

A retrospective debate.

This is a joke of a parliament.

There is no problem-----

How about a debate on the Estimate before it becomes law?

I ask the Deputy to behave himself and let the Tánaiste speak.

I have no problem holding a debate or taking whatever action is required on foot of that debate. However, this motion has to be passed by the end of October.

As Chairman of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission I am glad to report that these matters are scrutinised by the commission, and I have asked that all details be put on the website under every heading so that the public can be aware of everything. The Estimate will show that savings have been made to the value of millions of euro.

We are not represented on the commission.

Neither Sinn Féin nor the Technical Group is represented on the commission.

If they come back with more seats they might be represented.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 13a, motion re statement of Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission without debate be agreed to".
The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 40.

  • Barry, Tom.
  • Breen, Pat.
  • Broughan, Thomas P.
  • Butler, Ray.
  • Buttimer, Jerry.
  • Byrne, Catherine.
  • Carey, Joe.
  • Coffey, Paudie.
  • Collins, Áine.
  • Conaghan, Michael.
  • Conlan, Seán.
  • Connaughton, Paul J.
  • Conway, Ciara.
  • Coveney, Simon.
  • Creed, Michael.
  • Daly, Jim.
  • Deering, Pat.
  • Doherty, Regina.
  • Donohoe, Paschal.
  • Dowds, Robert.
  • Doyle, Andrew.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • English, Damien.
  • Feighan, Frank.
  • Fitzgerald, Frances.
  • Fitzpatrick, Peter.
  • Flanagan, Charles.
  • Flanagan, Terence.
  • Gilmore, Eamon.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Hannigan, Dominic.
  • Harrington, Noel.
  • Harris, Simon.
  • Hayes, Brian.
  • Heydon, Martin.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Humphreys, Kevin.
  • Keaveney, Colm.
  • Kehoe, Paul.
  • Kelly, Alan.
  • Kenny, Seán.
  • Lawlor, Anthony.
  • Lynch, Ciarán.
  • Lyons, John.
  • McLoughlin, Tony.
  • McNamara, Michael.
  • Maloney, Eamonn.
  • Mathews, Peter.
  • Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
  • Murphy, Dara.
  • Murphy, Eoghan.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Neville, Dan.
  • Nolan, Derek.
  • Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
  • O'Donnell, Kieran.
  • O'Mahony, John.
  • Penrose, Willie.
  • Perry, John.
  • Phelan, Ann.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Reilly, James.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Tuffy, Joanna.
  • Walsh, Brian.


  • Adams, Gerry.
  • Boyd Barrett, Richard.
  • Browne, John.
  • Calleary, Dara.
  • Collins, Joan.
  • Collins, Niall.
  • Colreavy, Michael.
  • Cowen, Barry.
  • Daly, Clare.
  • Doherty, Pearse.
  • Donnelly, Stephen S.
  • Dooley, Timmy.
  • Ellis, Dessie.
  • Ferris, Martin.
  • Fleming, Tom.
  • Grealish, Noel.
  • Halligan, John.
  • Healy, Seamus.
  • Healy-Rae, Michael.
  • Kelleher, Billy.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Lowry, Michael.
  • McConalogue, Charlie.
  • McDonald, Mary Lou.
  • McGrath, Mattie.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Murphy, Catherine.
  • Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
  • Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
  • O'Brien, Jonathan.
  • O'Dea, Willie.
  • O'Sullivan, Maureen.
  • Pringle, Thomas.
  • Ross, Shane.
  • Smith, Brendan.
  • Stanley, Brian.
  • Tóibín, Peadar.
  • Wallace, Mick.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Catherine Murphy.
Question declared .

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 19, statements on the economy agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 6 November 2012 agreed to? Agreed.