Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 14 Feb 2013

Vol. 792 No. 3

Promissory Notes: Motion (Resumed)

The following motion was moved by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, on Tuesday, 12 February 2012:

That:

Dáil Éireann welcomes the restructuring of the promissory notes provided for the IBRC, based on the outcome of discussions with the European Central Bank;

— recognises the benefit of the restructured arrangement for the State and its citizens, particularly:

— the removal of the promissory notes which will be exchanged for long-term Government bonds, with an average maturity of 34 to 35 years, as opposed to the promissory notes' seven to eight year average maturity;

— the reduction in the State's general Government deficit of approximately €1 billion, 0.6% of GDP, per annum over the coming years, which will bring us €1 billion closer to attaining our 3% deficit target by 2015;

— the reduction in the State's cash borrowing requirement over the next ten years by €20 billion;

— the significant element of the interest payments on the Government bonds that is expected ultimately to be returned to the Exchequer in the form of Central Bank dividends, while these bonds are retained by the Central Bank;

— the substantial improvement in the State's debt position over time;

— the removal of the remnants of the former Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society from the Irish financial system;

— the housing of all "wind down assets" in one entity, the National Asset Management Agency, which should lead to greater efficiency in their workout;

— commends the Government on progressing the commitment "to secure a Programme of Support and solution to the banking crisis that is perceived as more affordable by both the Irish public and international markets, thereby restoring confidence, growth, job creation and the State's access to affordable credit from private lenders"; and

— supports the Government's continuing efforts to foster economic growth and job creation which, in tandem with ongoing discussions on the extended remit of the European Stability Mechanism, will further improve the State's debt sustainability.

Debate resumed on amendment No. 4:

To delete all words after “Dáil Éireann” and substitute the following:

"recognises that the replacement of the promissory notes provided to the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC, with long-term Government bonds announced by an Taoiseach on Thursday, 7 February 2013 provides important benefits to the State including:

— a reduction in the general Government deficit of approximately €1 billion per annum over the coming years and will bring the State approximately €1 billion closer to attaining the 3% general Government deficit target by 2015; and

— a reduction in the State’s cash borrowing requirement over the next ten years by €20 billion by virtue of paying interest only on Government bonds rather than capital and interest on the promissory notes;

acknowledges the considerable efforts made in recent months by those who negotiated on Ireland’s behalf including the Minister for Finance, the Governor of the Central Bank and officials from the Department of Finance and the National Treasury Management Agency;

calls on the Government to use the €1 billion gain on the general Government deficit to ease the planned budget adjustments and to invest further in job creation measures without compromising the achievement of the 3% deficit target by 2015;

notes that the Government has not sought or received any write-down whatsoever of the legacy debt associated with the rescue of the former Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society;

notes that the Euro Area Summit Statement of 29 June 2012 reaffirming the imperative need to ‘break the vicious circle between the banks and the sovereigns’ has not been implemented in this case;

notes that the conversion of the promissory notes to long-term Government bonds means that there will be no further easement of this debt as a result of evolving European policy;

believes that the Central Bank should be permitted to retain the Government bonds for longer than the period agreed which would yield additional savings to the State;

calls on the Government to publish a detailed analysis of the full impact of the deal on Ireland's debt and deficit figures over the full course of the deal including, for example, sensitivity analysis for varying interest rates on the Government bonds and possible payments to the National Asset Management Agency to cover any shortfall, should one arise, following the sale of IBRC assets by the special liquidator; and

believes that the justice of Ireland's case deserves further relief from the impact of bank-related debt and, in particular, that the Government should be seeking to have the cost of bailing out AIB, Bank of Ireland and Permanent TSB lifted from the shoulders of the State through the European Stability Mechanism."

-(Deputy Michael McGrath).

Deputy Dara Calleary

I will deal with the previous contributions towards the end of my remarks, but I start by acknowledging that this is a very important deal and the effort put in by the Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform and the staff of the Department of Finance and the Central Bank in achieving it. It is only fair that this be done - a fairness lacking on the other side of the House on many occasions when it was required. However, we still have many questions to ask about the deal. While we are having this debate and there will be a vote at 2.30 p.m., there are questions that need to be referred to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform. The Governor of the Central Bank needs to appear before the committee to address the technical aspects of the deal. He raised some concerns over the weekend during an interview on "The Week in Politics" about when the Central Bank would be allowed to sell the bonds and whether the ECB would insist on the bonds being sold when it wanted. There are issues that need to be teased out fully.

The Oireachtas is not in a position to lecture companies about the way they make staff redundant if we proceed without commenting on the way staff in the IBRC were treated and calling for action on their behalf. I do not agree with Deputy Patrick O'Donovan on much, but the majority of the staff in the IBRC were hardworking and had nothing to do with the way the country ended up. For them to hear on the news last Wednesday evening that their jobs were gone and to arrive at their desks on Thursday morning to see an email summoning them to a meeting was not fair and nobody can ever say it was. The Oireachtas needs to ask that their interests be addressed in the coming weeks because the vast majority had no role in how we got to where we were.

The IBRC liquidator has substantial powers. As he proceeds with the liquidation, a very vicious process, will some of the IBRC's assets be sold in order to expedite the process in the fashion of a fire sale, thus reducing the potential return to the State? What guidelines are in place? The Minister for Finance previously said:

NAMA and the IBRC are actively engaged in reducing their respective portfolio of debts and debtors. They are not in direct competition with each other for customers and resources.

Last September the Minister said it was not considered appropriate to merge the two agencies. What guarantees are in place following the deal to ensure no fire sale of assets will take place and that the maximum price will be sought for the assets because the money will go back to the State as opposed to what happens in a normal liquidation process, that is, to get the deal done and the money in to pay off as many bills as possible?

Under what circumstances will the Central Bank be permitted to exchange a portion of the new floating rate bonds for fixed coupon bonds?

In years to come, when many of us may not be in this House, the sale process will be important with respect to State resources and budgets.

I refer to the ongoing court actions being pursued by the IBRC against a number of individuals. These are very high profile cases which have been parked and the Commercial Court is looking for guidance. There is a need for clarification with regard to these actions.

For how long will the European Central Bank permit the Central Bank to hold the bonds until they have to be sold on the market? Is that a decision for the Central Bank or the ECB? In 16 to 18 years' time when the current actors will have moved on, what arrangements will be in place?

A number of Members referred to the issue of the overall banking debt. The effort devoted to achieving the deal needs to be applied to other challenges facing the economy. I refer to the plight of the 416,000 unemployed persons signing on every week. Their plight does not receive anything like the attention devoted to the deal and the banking debt. The effort devoted to securing the deal needs to be made to deal with unemployment.

There has been much talk about a community return. This would involve an investment of some of the money that might be saved. The Government states the deal will save money. However, that is uncertain in the long term. Some of the money needs to be invested in infrastructural and other projects that will create employment. In order to promote employment, it will be necessary to reduce the cost burden on Irish business.

Deputy Bernard Durkan is the Acting Chairman and as such, I respect his position. In his contribution from the floor he said the deal would provide an opportunity for the economy to grow. However, the economy will not grow unless people are able and companies have the ability to spend. The ability to spend will create more employment opportunities which will, in turn, create greater spending in the economy. The deal will enhance confidence in the economy, but we must be sure to use and manage that confidence in order that job creation will be well resourced and people encouraged to spend.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan referred to the Beano and Dandy comics in the context of some of the debates held. If any of the people in the Fine Gael press office ever needs a job, he or she could write for the Beano and the Dandy, given some of the contributions made this morning. I remind Deputy Patrick O'Donovan of the independent survey which shows Fianna Fáil had the fifth highest attendance record at Council meetings during the period of office of the previous Government. Other Members - with respect to the Chair - complained that we had spent too much money in the 14 years we were in power. I remember at the time of the 2007 budget they all called the then Minister for Finance Scrooge because he was not spending enough money. I cannot say if the Acting Chairman said this, but many of his colleagues did.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Bernard J. Durkan)

When I leave the Chair, I will answer that question.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I think the Taoiseach defined and christened the then Minister for Finance as Scrooge because he was not spending enough money. The 2007 general election was characterised by the now Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources planning to spend so much money like a child on Christmas morning. There was no notion of fiscal responsibility or discipline in advance of that election.

Deputy Anthony Lawlor

The surplus had been generated by bad financial policies.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I will talk to the Deputy later. The fiscal issues remain. There is a notion that they have been resolved by the deal, but it is not being propagated by too many. The need for fiscal discipline continues and we must abide by the guidelines of the ESM. Critics maintain that the deal should have been better. Clearly, they do not understand how the process works. Prior to the last general election, the Labour Party brought forward the notion that everything was easy. Now that they are on the other side of the House they expect everyone to sing from the red hymn sheet, as well as the Government's. However, it does not work that way. I welcome the deal and acknowledge the significant effort made in achieving it. However, we must study what it means in real life, on the streets. Deputy Bernard Durkan is correct in his view that it will create the confidence needed to encourage growth, but we will need to manage that confidence to ensure it is felt at street and family level.

The Governor of the Central Bank, Professor Honohan, is focusing on the mortgage issue, which is welcome. That is the next phase in dealing with the banking crisis. If this problem is properly solved, it will have a direct impact. Mortgage debt is tangible, in particular for the 100,000 who have been more than three months in arrears. A solution to this problem will inspire confidence and encourage growth and job creation. I hope the same effort will be devoted to dealing with this issue. I hope also that the Government will apply the same pressure on the domestic banks as was applied to the ECB. If so, it can be congratulated on a job well done. It will be a deal that will make a difference and give a so-called community dividend. We will all support the Government in its attempts to do so.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Bernard J. Durkan)

Deputy Anthony Lawlor is sharing time with Deputies Catherine Byrne, Michelle Mulherin, Dan Neville and John Paul Phelan. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Anthony Lawlor

I congratulate the Government, in particular the Minister for Finance, the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and their officials, on the achievement of the deal, to which certain sections of the Opposition have been negative in their response. Deputy Dara Calleary referred to the mortgage issue. The burden of monthly repayments can be eased as a result of the deal. Those in mortgage difficulties will have the confidence to get on with their lives and be more likely to spend money in the economy. Even though it has been argued that the debt has been pushed out for a lengthy period, it will give us a chance to spend in the national economy and, in turn, create the necessary jobs. The level of long-term unemployment is a scourge, but there is the hope it can be dealt with.

The current debt-to-GDP ratio is 106%, but in 1988 it was 110%. I saw a photograph of a gentleman carrying his son on his shoulders who said that in 40 years time his son would still be repaying the debt. However, 25 years ago were people carrying their sons and saying the debt-to-GDP ratio, at 110%, was going to cripple the economy? When Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Democratic Left lost power in 1997, the debt-to-GDP ratio was at 60% and falling. In 1999 it was at 52% and the overall national debt was at €40 billion and falling. In 2006 the debt-to-GDP ratio hit 25%. Over a period of almost 16 years it had dropped dramatically from 110% to 25%.

The Fianna Fáil Government which was in power for 14 years implemented policies which caused what had previously been put in place to be completely eroded. The Acting Chairman, Deputy Durkan, will be familiar, for example, with the policies introduced by a previous Minister for Finance whose outlook was "If I have it, I will spend it". That was a reckless approach. The surplus funds that were generated during the Celtic tiger era emanated from the property taxes associated with the building boom and were unsustainable. It is as a result of this fact that we find ourselves in our current situation.

Deputy Adams was previously a Member of the British House of Commons and he will recall that in 1946, just after the Second World War, the British economy was in a state of devastation. The then British Government obtained loans from its counterparts in the US and Canada. Those loans were to be repaid over a 50-year period. Following a couple of five-year deferrals, the final repayment on those loans was made in 2006. As Deputy Adams will understand, a single withdrawal from the Northern Bank covered half of that final repayment. When one looks forward to the future, the period relating to our repayments seems long. I am currently on crutches and I have been informed that I will have them for four weeks. That may appear to be a long period when looking forward. When I look back on it in a few weeks, however, I am sure it will seem short.

My final point relates to the staff of the IBRC. Those people have provided a service and they were not responsible for getting the former Anglo Irish Bank into such a position of collapse that the entire country has subsequently been affected. I hope the Minister for Finance will use his influence to assist these staff either in transferring to NAMA or in obtaining positive redundancy packages.

Deputy Catherine Byrne

I welcome last week's announcement in respect of the promissory notes. The deal achieved is a positive step forward on the road to economic recovery. I do not pretend to be an expert in finance or economics and sometimes I find it difficult enough to balance my household budget. However, I accept that this is a complex issue and that, despite what some members of the Opposition believe, what was achieved last week is very positive for the country and its economy.

Since the Government came to office, it has showed its determination to revive this country's economy, which was left in ruins by the previous Administration. Last night, I listened in disbelief to the leader of Fianna Fáil refusing to take any blame for the mess his Government left behind. This morning I heard Deputy Calleary make reference to Scrooge. When it was in government, their party had plenty of money to throw at every Tom, Dick and Harry and, in particular, at its friends. Fianna Fáil threw money at communities just to garner votes. However, it failed to tell people that it was up to its eyes in hock at the time and that the money it was spending belonged to someone else. Deputy Martin needs to rethink his position on this matter.

The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, his colleagues and his officials worked very hard to negotiate a better deal for this country that will safeguard its children and its future. The Minister has achieved what many stated could not be achieved. The Government is determined to build on his success in order to ease our debt burden in the future. Those in opposition must give credit where it is due. People in our communities and constituencies have begun to see a little light at the end of the tunnel. I have been contacted by a number of individuals in this regard.

Last week, the IBRC, formerly known as Anglo Irish Bank, was liquidated and the promissory notes were replaced with more suitable long-term debt. There are many young people in this country who have huge mortgages and whose homes are in negative equity. If these individuals got the opportunity to obtain a deal similar to that achieved last week and spread their mortgages over 40 years or more, they would dance with joy. We must realise that there is a better future for everybody in this country as long as we do the right thing now. As the Taoiseach stated, what was done last week is similar to swapping a high-interest short-term overdraft for a long-term low-interest mortgage. I know many people will understand what he meant by that. The bottom line in respect of last week's deal is that we are not going to be obliged to pay €3 billion a year in respect of the promissory notes nor will we have to borrow €20 billion during the next ten years. For the Irish people, this means that €1 billion less will need to be achieved through taxes and spending cuts in the years up to 2015. That is an extremely positive development. The deal, which was hard won, is a positive news story. However, many steps remain to be taken in order that we might allow our economy to recover. Economic recovery cannot happen overnight because we are not genies and we do not have magic wands.

As already stated, many citizens are beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel. Those in opposition who continually refer to people being given everything for nothing and not being obliged to pay for anything. I did not know what a promissory note was until I asked someone and I was informed that it is an IOU. Everybody has a right to owe money in his or her life if he or she so wishes. Paying that money back is an even greater right. I take this opportunity to thank the people of Dublin South-Central who have been extremely supportive in the past week and a half following the terrifying experience I had at my constituency office ten days ago. What happened in my case shows that there are decent people out there who do not believe in bullying tactics. Those who state that the people to whom I refer want everything for nothing should take a good look at what is happening on their own doorsteps.

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

I also wish to welcome the great deal achieved in respect of the promissory notes, part of which involved the immediate winding up and liquidation of the IBRC. This is a matter on which I have spoken in the past. On the Tuesday night before the surprise announcement of the liquidation of the IBRC, I spoke on this issue in the context of a motion before the House. The IBRC was a dead bank and other than housing certain assets, it served no function in terms of providing retail or commercial services and was an additional cost on the State. It is good that this chapter in our history is being brought to a close. I congratulate all involved. It can be stated that we played our cards very well. The hand we were dealt had its limitations but, collectively, we played it very coolly.

I compliment the Taoiseach on his diplomatic assault on Europe. At times, those opposite - who would prefer to use blunt instruments in respect of everything - made fun of his efforts. I congratulate the Minister for Finance, the Governor of the Central Bank, Professor Patrick Honohan, and the departmental officials who worked on the details relating to the deal and who displayed shrewd negotiating skills in making possible this result for our country.

It has been amazing to listen to the bleeding hearts in Fianna Fáil - they could also be heard commenting in respect of another serious issue last evening - rabbiting on about the need for a break for the Irish people, the fact that this was needed and inevitable, etc. They then uttered begrudging acknowledgements in respect of the benefits of the deal that has been achieved. It is only a few years ago that those to whom I refer were in absolute overdrive when they informed us that the deal they achieved on the promissory notes was absolutely the best which could be obtained. We were expected to believe this. In effect, they are now acknowledging that the deal they delivered - under cover of darkness - when they bankrupted the country was unsustainable. There is no surprise in that regard. While I feel sorry for the late Brian Lenihan Jr. in terms of the predicament in which he found himself, history will record that Fianna Fáil sold this country down the Swanee when it concluded its own deal. Those in Fianna Fáil have no authority when it comes to cross-examining the Government or picking at the deal done last week, particularly as it is clear that they thought they could stand over the deal they did.

There is already evidence of the benefits of the deal done last week. The markets responded immediately and interest rates fell significantly. It is only a matter of time before this filters down. I would like to believe that the confidence the markets have displayed will permeate into the lives of ordinary men and women in order that they might, in turn, be confident that the country is on the right road towards recovery. It is my hope and ambition that ordinary people will benefit from the respite to which the deal will give rise. There is no doubt that work remains to be done.

The deal that has been struck and the manner in which it was struck is evidence that there is not a magic wand. There is a way forward, and it is a tough way, but the stark reality is that notwithstanding any argument about sovereign debt and bank debt, the then Minister for Finance signed his name to the bottom of those promissory notes. They were, without a doubt, bank debts taken on as sovereign debt. We had to deal with that, and we did deal with it.

Deputy Dan Neville

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I congratulate the key people involved including my fellow Limerick man, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, his staff, and the diplomatic work done by Deputy Enda Kenny as Taoiseach. People do not realise the importance of that until there is tangible evidence of somebody being in a position at 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. on a Sunday evening to contact the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, to overcome difficulties. I congratulate also the other Ministers involved and in particular Patrick Honohan, the Governor of the Central Bank, and his staff who were key to the work being done over recent years.

This outcome is a key step in rescuing our country and our economy for future generations and ensuring that over time its effects, and the additional work that has to be done, will bring us back to a position where everybody who wants to work in this country can do so and everybody can have a decent standard of living and confidence in their future. In the past week one can detect a growing confidence in the future of our economy and our country, but there is a long way to go yet.

There was a great deal of debate regarding the write-down of the debt. First, we know there could not have been a write-down because it is illegal under European Union rules. Second, we could have sought a write-down and played to the gallery knowing that it would not happen but that would have damaged our credibility in the negotiations which the Government had to ensure would be successful. We were dealing with politicians but we were also dealing with very senior people in the service with whom we had to establish a relationship, obtain their confidence and convince them that we were serious about sorting out the problem in the interest of our State and in the interest of Europe because this is a signal to other European countries that with diligent work improvements can take place. However, there is a large body of work to be done, and everybody should support the Government in that work and ensure that the path which was set last week will continue to develop.

I congratulate also and acknowledge the work of the diplomatic service throughout Europe under the leadership of the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, who we now know did fantastic work over that period. It is one thing to have negotiations with the key people but it is also important that we influence those in the circle, so to speak, in terms of our credibility.

Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide are gone. The promissory notes are gone. There has been much debate on those two institutions in recent years, and rightly so. We should ensure that the effect of what has happened and what will develop will result in our people having a better life and being able to live in our country. That should be our objective.

Deputy John Paul Phelan

I join with other Members in welcoming the opportunity to take part in this discussion on what is a significant next step in improving the sustainability of Irish debt and therefore improving the prospects for our economic redevelopment in the next few years. I agree with many of the sentiments expressed by Members on the Opposition benches who spoke about the origin of this debt. The reality is that once the late Brian Lenihan accepted, on behalf of the State, the nature of the promissory note it was a promise to pay, and he put it on the shoulders of the taxpayer on behalf of the previous Government. The Minister for Finance, the Governor of the Central Bank, other members of the Government and civil servants have spent the past 18 months in negotiations with the European Central Bank and others to ensure that burden would be eased. This discussion, and the agreement unanimously noted last week by the ECB, is the fruit of the easing of that burden.

The next economic task for the Government is twofold: first, to ensure the agreement reached by the Heads of Government over a year ago on the difference between sovereign and banking debt is implemented and, second, that the pressures individuals and families are under as a result of mortgage difficulties are eased to allow them take a significant part in our domestic recovery over the course of the next few years. This deal was an important step on that road because it gives the Government and the economy breathing space in the coming years.

Fianna Fáil, in its previous incarnation, was very clever in its design of the promissory note. It was designed in such a way that interest only would be paid for the first few years with capital to kick in after that when it projected the next general election would take place. That would have seen Irish taxpayers at the end of March every year stumping up €3.1 billion. I commend the Minister for Finance on his efforts to ensure we did not find ourselves in circumstances where taxpayers had to find that money. The reality is that as an economy and a country we do not have to borrow that money for the next ten years to refund the promissory note. That is an immediate burden lifted off the economy.

The second important point is that I understand none of the structure of our current debt goes beyond 2035 and that this first stage of capital repayment under last week's renegotiated deal will be at the end of the 2030s. If we adhere to the parameters laid down by the European Union in terms of Government deficits, to which we are bound to adhere, we will not see additional payments falling on future generations. There is a considerable body of opinion which suggests that this additional payment will never fall on future generations. Governments generally do not repay national debt; the debt is rolled over. Economies grow over time, and that is something we hope will happen in Ireland. It is happening at present here even though circumstances are strained, to say the very least, in that the value of the debt will be run down over the next 40 years, not least by growth in the economy but also by inflation, even if inflation is moderate. That is the reason this deal, while it is not the be all and end all, is a significant improvement on the burden placed by Fianna Fáil on the taxpayers three years. That is the reason I support it fully, and I commend the Minister, the Governor of the Central Bank, the Taoiseach and everybody involved in its negotiation.

Deputy Gerry Adams

The Acting Chairman, Deputy Durkan, being a wise man, and the Minister for Finance will know that the promissory note agreement represents a complete U-turn by the Government. We were told by the Tánaiste and Taoiseach recently, when they had moved quietly to the Sinn Féin position, that the Government wanted to separate bad bank debt from sovereign debt. Instead, it has replaced bad bank debt, represented by the promissory note, with sovereign bonds. There is now €28 billion in promissory notes to cover the losses of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide. We have been handcuffed to the arrangement for the next 40 years. This is from a Government that told us during the election campaign that Anglo Irish Bank would not get another red cent.

If we needed any reminder about precisely whose debt we are paying, the RTE report into Irish Nationwide earlier this week served as a timely one. The programme exposed the extent to which the banking practices of that institution were out of control. The corrupt practices involving senior management, developers, speculators and others, in addition to inadequate regulation and incompetent and dishonest decisions by the Fianna Fáil Government, saddled the taxpayer with a huge debt of €5.4 billion, plus interest. This is as much as the Government's family household tax will raise over the next ten years, or almost six times what the Government is stripping from the health budget for this year. Last week the Fine Gael and Labour Party Government compounded the mistakes of Fianna Fáil by turning this bad banking debt, which is not the people's, into sovereign debt. Generations of citizens will have to pay for the corrupt actions of the golden circles and the bad decisions of the former and current Governments.

Almost five years after the Irish Nationwide-Anglo Irish Bank debacle, citizens have still not seen any of the reports carried out into the banking collapse. None of them has been published and no public inquiry has been held. No one in the banks has been held accountable. We still do not know the truth about these bad banks, or the sordid deal Fianna Fáil struck with Michael Fingleton to allow him to keep his €1 million pay-off.

Ernst & Young was the auditor for Anglo Irish Bank and signed off on accounts that showed a profit for the bank in years when the bank was technically insolvent. Where is the transparency in that regard? The auditor has never been held to account for this.

It is worth comparing the attitude of this Government and the Fianna Fáil Government in their treatment of the big bankers with their attitude to ordinary mortgage holders. When big bankers run up debts of billions of euro, the Government steps in to pick up the tab using public money. However, when it comes to the families who are struggling under the weight of mortgage arrears, negative equity and increasing interest rates, not to mention the new family home tax, the Government does nothing. Where is the write-down, bailout or dig-out for the 180,000 families in mortgage arrears?

Almost one in four mortgage holders is in distress. This is shocking, yet the Government does nothing. Mortgage holders, ordinary people, low- and middle-income families, the poor and disadvantaged, the disabled and the young are paying for the bank bailouts. This is the critical failing in the Government's approach to this issue. It never approached this issue on the basis that it was not the people's debt. From the outset, despite the pre-election statements from the Minister's Cabinet colleagues that no money should be paid into the bad banks, he was determined to pay those billions. He went into negotiations and did not even ask for a write-down. He went in telling the ECB that we would pay the debt that was not ours. The ECB wanted to turn Ireland's bank debt into sovereign debt. It wanted the promissory note, an IOU signed by the Minister's predecessor, turned into sovereign bonds. He gave it everything it wanted. Every single cent will be paid to the ECB by this and future generations.

The Minister for Finance had the gall recently to try to defend all this behaviour by comparing it to Sinn Féin's negotiating strategy prior to the Good Friday Agreement. Given Fine Gael's appalling record on the North and its dismal history of bad negotiations with the British, if this was not so serious it would be very greannmhar. The Minister claimed Sinn Féin did not go into the negotiations seeking a united Ireland. He did not go into his negotiations looking for a write-down. It is true that the Irish Government at the time of the Good Friday Agreement negotiations did not seek Irish unity, but Sinn Féin did. We negotiated the end of the Government of Ireland Act and secured a peaceful and democratic way to end British Government involvement in our country and to achieve Irish unity. The current Government negotiated a bank deal that turned bank debt into sovereign debt. It negotiated a bank deal that will see every cent paid. Our grandchildren will owe billions, so Fine Gael should not lecture Sinn Féin about negotiating strategies; it should consider its own.

Most people's assessment of the legislation will be based on what it means for them. They will ask how it improves their lives. The State's overall debt has not been reduced by this deal and the Government has not abandoned its austerity approach. It intends to proceed with this and its plans to tax the family home. It intends to proceed with at least another two austerity budgets, which approach is having devastating social consequences. The latest statistics from the CSO, released yesterday, indicate that over 700,000 people are in poverty across the State. This is the direct result of the Government's austerity policies. More than 232,000 children are at risk of poverty, representing an increase on the figures of a year ago.

Just as the Government oversold the deal last June, it is overselling this one. Rather than lifting the debt burden from the people, it has tied it to them. The Government should have insisted on a separation of banking and sovereign debt. Instead Fine Gael, to its eternal shame, and the Labour Party have signed up to repaying every cent of the debt associated with the Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide catastrophe.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Last week was a very dark one for democracy in Ireland. Copying the tactics of the former Government, the current Government rushed through a very serious Bill in the middle of the night. All the great novels, plays and films show that crime is always committed under cover of darkness. Last week, under cover of darkness, the Government pushed through legislation that will tie our children and grandchildren to an unjust burden of debt. While I welcome the opportunity to speak now on the promissory note deal, it does not make up for my being denied my right as a parliamentarian representing the people to scrutinise a Bill properly before voting on it last Wednesday. The events of last Wednesday did not represent democracy in action.

Last Wednesday, the people were left in the dark. While the political commentators implied that the legislation was of the highest importance, the citizens were left in the dark. The majority of Deputies and Senators in the building had very little idea as to what was really happening. We were not afforded the time required to deal with an issue of such importance.

Consider the staff of the Irish Banking Resolution Corporation. In the space of a few short hours, they discovered not only that their jobs were gone but that many of their redundancy rights were gone also.

I never had deposits in or loans from Anglo Irish Bank; nor did my wife, children or grandchildren. Perhaps some Members of the Dáil, or perhaps even members of the Government, had loans from or deposits in Anglo Irish Bank. I do not know, but I would like to know, and I am sure the people of the nation would like to know also. The fact is that the vast majority of people had no loans from or deposits in Anglo Irish Bank. They had no benefit from the bank. Despite this, they must make repayments to save this corrupt and rotten bank.

This is the crux of the argument. The people of Ireland should not have to pay a cent of the debts of Anglo Irish Bank. The Government should have entered negotiations with the ECB seeking a write down of that debt. When the Acting Chairman, Deputy Bernard Durkan, spoke on this motion he asked where people got the fanciful idea that there could possibly be a write down of the debt. People first heard this from the parties that are now in government, prior to the election. They were told that not one red cent more would go into it while the Labour Party spoke about "Labour's way or Frankfurt's way". However, that was a pre-election promise and, as we know from the comments of a senior Cabinet Minister, pre-election promises do not count.

Members on the Government benches may laugh and roll their eyes at the proposition that it is worthy to seek a write down of this debt. Perhaps that laughter is due to the Government recognising its own failings. Both parties in government received a mandate from the public to form a government as a result of stating that they were against the banking debt that Fianna Fáil had loaded onto the people. That is why their Members were elected and put on the Government benches. People believed what the parties told them. I do not know whether it was mass hypnotism, but the Government has now converted what was a loose deal in the form of promissory notes into sovereign debt. It has practically doubled the cost of bailing out Anglo Irish Bank and has saddled future generations with today's debt. It might be a stab in the dark, but I believe that is Frankfurt's way, not Labour's way.

It was unfair when the last Government initially committed taxpayers to bailing out private debt and it is just as unfair when this Government asks them now to do so. The initiative won when other countries, especially Spain, pushed the Eurogroup to commit to separating banking and sovereign debt has been well and truly squandered. That pressure should have been maintained. Throughout Europe I expect to see an acceptance that there must be a separation of banking and sovereign debt, but it will be too late for the taxpayers of this country.

Some speakers on the Government side have compared this deal to extending the term of a mortgage. If one extends one's mortgage repayments over a longer period of time, it can be a good option even if one will end up paying more for one's house. It depends on circumstances. However, there is a fundamental difference between a mortgage and the deal this Government made with the ECB. After the mortgage is repaid, one is left with a house, an asset one can keep. After this private banking debt has been paid by the people of Ireland, however, they will be left with nothing. It is a wonder this Government with its neoliberal ideology is so keen to pump money into a black hole, yet resists investing in State assets that could provide employment and wealth for the State. In short, the deal can be summed up as the winding down of a toxic bank but not a winding down of the toxic debt. It is akin to pulling up the floor boards of a house because there is a leak beneath but not fixing the leak after doing so.

However, we have gone a step further. We have practically doubled the cost of bailing out Anglo Irish Bank. In addition, by forcing the Central Bank to sell the bonds on the market, the interest payable will not make its way back to the State's coffers. This will generate additional costs, which must also be taken into account. Making the bonds marketable is the price of covering the ECB legally, but even now we cannot put a price on that.

We must pay an incalculable total in interest and capital for the next 40 years, yet the Government celebrates this as a wonderful deal. The spinning is happening, but behind the public relations and spin I believe we have a Government that is very uncertain about what will happen. The Government kept the electorate and the Members of the Dáil and Seanad in the dark last Wednesday week as to what will happen, but perhaps that was not a deliberate strategy on its part. Perhaps it is because the Government does not know what is happening or what will happen. Last week was a little reminiscent of what happened to another ill-fated head of government. When Neville Chamberlain arrived back in Britain in September 1938 he waved the deal he had with Germany, saying he believed it meant "peace in our time". Within a year Britain was at war with Germany. I sincerely hope that the deal the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance brought to this House is not like Mr. Chamberlain's and that we do not find ourselves in a significantly worse situation in a very short time. However, when the spinning in done and reality bites, the people of Ireland will soon clearly see how ill-judged this deal was.

I said last week was a bad one for democracy and I believe that to be true. However, one very good aspect of democracy is that people will ultimately have the opportunity to give their opinion on this deal, a deal I believe will damage this country for decades. The people will give their verdict, and the sooner that day comes the better for the people and for the country.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Bernard J. Durkan)

Deputy Ciara Conway is sharing time with Deputies Gerald Nash, Anne Ferris and Seán Kenny.

Deputy Ciara Conway

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on the arrangement that was reached on the promissory notes last week, albeit in the early hours of the morning. What needs to be said has not been said by the Opposition, which is no surprise because, as the Minister for Finance said, it was a bad day to be in the Opposition. However, let us be under no illusion. Last week was a good week for Ireland and its future. It gives us the breathing space and economic leverage we so badly need. It was the result of many hours of work by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, the Taoiseach, Tánaiste, Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, and their staff. Credit should be given where it is due in this regard.

It is most unfortunate that an Economic Management Council had to be established to mop up what can only be described as the spectacular mess left by the previous Administration. Media and the Opposition say we overplay that, but I do not believe we can ever underestimate or underplay how the previous Administration treated this country in terms of its economic management and the disdain with which it treated the people. The dedication and commitment of this Government and its staff, including in embassies throughout Europe, have paid dividends in gradually restoring our economic sovereignty and, most importantly, our reputation.

Work has been under way since this Government came into office to undo the disastrous promissory notes deal which the Fianna Fáil-led Administration shackled to the State. We have delivered on our promise. The Fianna Fáil deal was a short-term overdraft with a huge interest rate. The new deal is spread over 40 years and means the Government's need to raise €20 billion over the next decade has ceased to exist.

While that will make it much easier for us to leave the troika deal at the end of the year, I am under no illusion at the difficult task that lays ahead. The deal also helps us to reduce our deficit by €1 billion per year from 2014, a prospect which was unfathomable to the Opposition for the last number of months as appears from commentary and debate on the issue. The new deal allows for a far more manageable payments schedule and level of inflation over the next 20 years.

Although "promnight" as it has been called in the media was sprung upon us at the last minute, it is plain to see that the move was the result of months of hard work. One has to question why there was a leak. Thanks to the leak, we had to conduct our business in an unfortunate way by suddenly pushing the legislation through. It has led to opportunism from the Opposition who have been taking cheap shots and turning this into a very bad news story. Comments from Deputy Gerry Adams about the Dáil bar were very unhelpful and did a great disservice to hard-working, well-meaning Deputies. No one party or Deputy is more hard-working or has greater authority on a particular issue. We are all here to represent the people of Ireland. I question where the leak came from in the first place, however. In other administrations, such a leak would be a prosecutable offence. One has to question the means and the motives that led us to the debate in the early hours of the morning.

I have been contacted by and spoken to many IBRC workers who live in my constituency. The staff have my sympathy and support. Many have written to me outlining their concerns about their redundancy. We must remember that not everyone who worked in the banking sector was a fat-cat. There were many good, decent and honest working people within the organisation who stayed and took the abuse at the front desk but did not receive the remuneration provided to those who hid in big offices making disastrous deals. We must remember that as a Government as we work to help secure a good deal for these workers.

Of course, there has been a great deal of work done in the last two years. Government Deputies are under no illusion that while this was a good deal for Ireland, the hard work must continue.

Deputy Gerald Nash

The deal announced last week to wind up IBRC and replace promissory notes with a long-term bond was a huge win for the country. That said, I join Deputy Ciara Conway in recognising the plight of the IBRC workers who had their jobs thrown into doubt overnight. It is extremely important to record the need to have meaningful engagement with the Irish Bank Officials' Association on the circumstances in which its members find themselves. I want to ensure the workers are treated fairly and transparently in the coming period.

Last week's deal will allow us to tear up the promissory notes which had to be paid within ten years and replace them with a Government bond which will not have to be paid for 40 years. The interest rate will also change from 8% to 3%. Essentially, we swap a short-term overdraft at horrendous rates for an arrangement that is akin to the type of arrangement applying to a long-term mortgage. Far from putting a millstone around the necks of our children, the deal allows us to recover to provide our children with jobs and security and a future in their own country. It is a massive improvement on the deal we inherited on coming into Government and it will save the taxpayer €20 billion over the next decade. The deal is not a panacea but gives the country considerable breathing space in which to recover. We continue to need to borrow considerable sums of money every year to meet our daily spending requirements. The vast majority of the borrowed money goes to our schools, hospitals and public servants who provide services in the State. We are not just borrowing to pay banks, despite what some chancers on the populist left would have one believe.

I find it extraordinary to witness the twisting of Sinn Féin in particular over the last few days. The silence and discomfort on the Sinn Féin benches when the deal was announced was testament to the utter cynicism in the party's ranks. The best news the country has received since the start of the banking disaster in 2008 with the bank guarantee was greeted with dismay by Sinn Féin. It did not know how to react. For the last week, it has been a party in search of an excuse to deny the excellent deal before us. Sinn Féin would rather the country burned than see it recover if it meant the party obtained some sort of short-term political advantage. The party that helped to create the mess in the first place by voting for the bank guarantee on that infamous night has now turned around and voted against the solution. It has more to do with carving out a space in the political market place than with any serious consideration of the issue at hand.

I return to address the deal and the relief which Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin said we could not deliver. It is not just a good deal. It is an important step towards leaving the bailout programme and regaining control over our own economic affairs and destiny. Progress has been made. Ireland was one of the few countries in Europe to register any form of economic growth last year. There will be growth this year and in 2014 and Ireland will recover. The deal will help that recovery immeasurably. In the past ten months, IDA Ireland has announced almost 2,000 foreign direct investment jobs in my constituency of Louth. eBay announced 450 new jobs today. Major multinationals invest in stable economies. The massive international welcome for the deal struck last week demonstrates that it will inspire greater confidence in Ireland. The promissory note deal is a major part of our rebuilding process and very much to be welcomed.

Deputy Anne Ferris

I am pleased to speak on this deal, the effects of which will go some way towards alleviating the damage wrought by the previous Government. The promissory notes were a millstone around the neck of the State. They weighed us down. The deal achieved by the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform is hugely significant. I commend their work and the work of departmental officials, ambassadors and diplomats carried out on behalf of the State. The end result has been the lightening of Ireland's overall debt load. While it is not the full answer to our economic difficulties, it is most certainly a vital part of the response.

The promissory notes were a legacy of an incompetent Fianna Fáil-Government that could not manage the economy. The bailout given to the banks was wholeheartedly supported by Sinn Féin with Deputy Pearse Doherty saying in the Seanad, of which he was then a Member: "We appreciate the move by the Government today and remind ourselves it is a bail-out by taxpayers for the banks." He also stated in the Seanad:

I intend to support the Bill as my party colleagues did in the Dáil when the vote was taken there in the early hours of this morning. We do this because the Bill is in the national interest.

The Government is cleaning up the mess that was left behind by the previous, economically-illiterate Fianna Fáil-Government and its Sinn Féin cheerleaders. It is an understatement to say I am disheartened listening to the bile from certain Members of the Opposition on how the promissory note deal is bad.

The outline of the deal is worth considering in detail so that the benefits can be put forward. I welcome the fact that Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Nationwide Building Society are no more. The Anglo Irish Bank name and the names of its senior people have been a bane to Irish society for too many years. The decision to abolish the name and wipe it off the map is significant in itself. The immediate payment of €3.1 billion that was originally due in March 2013 on foot of the promissory note schedule will not now be made. Instead, this and all other scheduled payments have been replaced with a series of long-term Government bonds of an average term of 34 years. This compares with average terms of seven to eight years which had been in place. The transaction is akin to replacing a short-term loan with both interest and capital repayments with a long-term, interest-only mortgage. We have transferred over 40% of legacy banking debt into very long-term debt and reduced significantly the cost of financing it. Our borrowing requirement will be reduced by €20 billion over the next ten years.

The wider beneficial effects of this have already been felt internationally. Yields on Irish bonds have fallen to their lowest level in more than seven years. The ratings agency, Standard & Poor's revised its outlook on Ireland from negative to stable. Moody's is the only agency which has yet to reassess its outlook. Irish families benefit now and will continue to benefit.

A much less burdensome debt allows for much greater sustainability and our economic sovereignty is further ensured. This deal is hugely significant. It is not, however, the full answer to our economic problems. We do have a way to go. Times are difficult and people are struggling. I am aware of that and I know that more needs to be done but I believe we are on the path to recovery. Every step we take brings us that much closer to economic sovereignty and to ensuring growth in jobs. That is the overriding goal of this Government: a healthy economy that fosters jobs growth. I commend the work that was carried out to achieve this goal but I caution that more needs to be done and we must continue to put the nose to the grindstone.

Deputy Seán Kenny

I join Deputy Nash and my other colleagues in paying tribute to the employees of the IBRC and expressing the wish that their redundancy terms will be fair. I warmly welcome the deal on the IBRC promissory notes as a commitment delivered on and as another step on the road to economic recovery. It is a giant step forward for Ireland.

As we all know, the IBRC was formerly Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Nationwide Building Society. A recent "Prime Time" programme on the Irish Nationwide Building Society showed what went on there under Mr. Fingleton. Whenever I hear of the Irish Nationwide Building Society I think of Priory Hall, which is in my constituency, because Irish Nationwide bankrolled Thomas McFeely to build Priory Hall. Maybe if he had not been able to get that money he might not have built Priory Hall the way he did. It can perhaps be said that this is the deal Ireland should have secured when it emerged that the situation in Anglo Irish Bank was so serious.

The significance of this deal and the work that went into securing it cannot really be underestimated. The deal will save Ireland €20 billion in borrowing costs over the coming decades and reduce the national deficit by €1 billion per year. We are not out of the woods but, whether or not there are reductions in spending over the next two years, the burden on Ireland has eased as a result of this deal. It puts our debts on a more sustainable footing. It will help us to improve our economy and create employment, which is the priority.

It was irresponsible of the Opposition to try to put out the message that the promissory notes could somehow be defaulted on or forgotten about. They could not. To do so is not possible under the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. The promissory notes were sovereign debt. The last Government made them the responsibility of the Irish people and they must be paid back. The Opposition needs to deal with political reality and not fantasy.

Sinn Féin has absolutely no credibility on the bank debt problem which has very nearly ruined this country. It voted to bail out the banks and make the debt sovereign. Yes, it changed its mind later, but it cannot get away from its initial position. Anyone who claims that the country is not in a somewhat better state today than it was prior to the events of last week either fails to understand what is happening or is using existing political developments for his or her own political convenience.

I made a promise to the people who elected me in 2011 to play my part in sorting out the awful mess in which the last Government left Ireland. This deal is part of that promise. It also does what many of my constituents and others from all around the country who e-mail me almost daily have asked for - that we should not pay the €3.1 billion promissory notes. We have now stopped paying them. The promissory notes are history.

For those who loudly called for an end to the promissory notes to criticise the deal after seeing it is surprising and disappointing. Individuals who continue to insist on default must understand that a default or write-down on sovereign debt is illegal. This is the reality within which all in this House, the European Parliament and the European institutions must work. Those who think it acceptable to preach in the media or in this House need to take account of the political realities.

The Labour Party in government is solving the problems that Ireland faces and today is another step towards economic recovery. The Government needs and will strive to bring forward further arrangements for our banking and sovereign debt. More work will be required on this but I am convinced that it will result in further significant results for Ireland and its people.

Deputy Mick Wallace

Paying for Anglo Irish Bank's problems over a longer period rather than up-front is certainly a help. The Government says we are saving €20 billion over the next ten years but we should never have been paying €20 billion now or at any other time. Ashoka Mody, a former IMF economist who is now at Princeton University, argued this week that it is a pity "that the 'debtor' nations view their bargaining position as so weak that limited gains ... have been overly celebrated." He goes on to say:

But not only was sovereign debt restructuring abandoned, governments were forced to assume debt they never signed on to. What is the principle that requires the Irish taxpayer to honour the debts of a rogue bank? The promissory notes deal must not be judged by the relief it provides to the Irish budget; the right benchmark for its achievement is the debt obligations that live on.

The Government has admitted that it never even sought a debt write-down. That is not what the Irish people expected from it after the last election. The Labour Party's manifesto said "Labour believes that bank bondholders should share in bank losses." It also said "Labour will seek to ensure that burden sharing with bondholders is part of a renegotiated deal." Fine Gael boasted in its five-point plan that it was the first party to argue that it was unfair for the Irish people to shoulder all of the losses of our banks and that it was right that investors who had lent recklessly to the banks should also share in the pain. It added: "It is neither morally right nor economically sustainable for taxpayers to be asked to beggar themselves to make massive profits for speculators." It said:

Irish and other European taxpayers can no longer be expected to carry the can for reckless lending between Irish and other European banks. It is a basic rule of capitalism that if you lend recklessly you must take the consequences.

God be with the day.

A study published today by Caritas Europa entitled, The Impact of the European Crisis, says that an entire generation of young people are faced with unemployment - 55% in Spain, over 50% in Greece and 30% in Ireland. It states that children are at greater risk of poverty or social exclusion than the rest of the population in 21 member states. The study strongly challenges current official suggestions that the worst of the economic crisis is over. The report highlights the extremely negative impact austerity policies have on the lives of vulnerable people and reveals that many others are being driven into poverty for the first time. The report's main conclusion is that austerity is not working and an alternative is needed.

Where do we go from here? Members are probably familiar with the journalist and economist at Cambridge University Ha-Joon Chang, who says: "[I]t is important to reiterate that the fiscal deficits in the European countries ... are largely due to the fall in tax revenues following the finance-induced recession, rather than to the rise in welfare spending." Maybe that is what the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, was trying to tell the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, yesterday. He continues:

So, attacking the poor and eviscerating the welfare state is not going to cure the underlying cause of the deficits. ... [I]n the past three decades of dominance by free-market ideology, many of us have come to believe in the myth of the individual fully in charge of his/her destiny. ... The beauty of this worldview - for those who disproportionately benefit from the current system - is that, by reducing everything down to individuals, it draws people's attention away from the structural causes of poverty and inequality. It is well known that poor childhood nutrition, lack of learning stimulus at deprived homes, and sub-par schools restrict capability developments of poor children, diminishing their future prospects. When they grow up, they have to contend with all sorts of prejudices that constantly discourage and deflate them ...

What we have been looking at over the past while is a model of capitalism that has been forced down the throat of the world as the only way to run a modern economy at a cost of ballooning inequality and environmental degradation. It has been discredited and only rescued from collapse by the greatest State intervention in history.

The great twins of neo-conservatism and neo-liberalism have been tried and tested to destruction. For 30 years the West's elites insisted that only deregulated markets, privatisation and low taxes on the wealthy could deliver growth and prosperity. Neo-liberalism was handing power to unaccountable banks and corporations, fuelling poverty and social injustice, while all the time undermining democracy. Surely, we need to reconstruct our damaged economy and society in a more democratic, egalitarian and rational way. A sustainable alternative that would prioritise the concerns of ordinary people is possible. There is an alternative.

Deputy Clare Daly

Listening to Labour Party Deputies, I was torn between wanting to laugh and cry. They doth celebrate too much methinks. They are trying hard to convince themselves that they have reached some great achievement with this promissory notes deal. That Irish Nationwide Building Society was responsible for Tom McFeely and Priory Hall is the last straw. Meanwhile, citizens across the State are concerned about the antics last week in this House late at night. It smacked of the bad old days when deals were done in the middle of the night, there was a lack of information and a lack of democracy, while the best of spin was put on the matter.

It does not matter what way the Government dresses this up, the reality is that, flying in the face of everything on which it had contested the general election, it has taken the bad bank debts, with the undemocratic promissory notes, enshrined them as sovereign debt and foisted it on the shoulders of future generations. The burden-sharing sought by the Labour Party is for our children and grandchildren. God forbid, German, French and English bondholders and institutions would have to take their cut. Instead, we transfer it to the people. Labour Party Members' claims that they have seen off Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society are an absolute joke. Everyone knows these banks had effectively closed down years ago and were being wound down. That was the basis for the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC. Labour Party Members shedding crocodile tears for the workers in the bank is a bit rich considering that they voted for the process that made them redundant, some of them learning about it when they tuned into Vincent Browne's show on the evening the legislation was introduced.

A constituent wrote to me to explain how she was employed for several years in IBRC to wind down Anglo Irish Bank and maximise recovery for the taxpayer. In her correspondence she pointed to the millions of euro she had recovered from various loan books and how she had never gained from a large salary or bonus in her 12 years at Anglo Irish Bank. She had saved for years to participate in the employee share-save scheme which had been wiped out in nationalisation. She had taken a preferential staff mortgage in 2006 which was now costing her a fortune for a negative equity property. She is the main earner in her family and her dwelling is unsuitable for her family needs. The last week has been devastating for her and her family without being treated with dignity or respect. This is the case for many other employees of the bank also, some of whom have been told they will not be entitled to statutory redundancy as they voluntarily made a decision to transfer to the receiver.

If workers at the helm of these banks are being treated this way, it is also the case that other workers across the country are being let down by the deal. It is not correct, as Deputy Nash said, that we are borrowing to pay our way. The amount raised in taxation is enough to keep the economy going. We are borrowing to pay the national debt and the interest on it, a significant part of which is accounted for by the private banking burden. The Government lauds thie deal as a great achievement with savings when tens of billions have been pumped in to shore up these private banks - some €20.7 billion from the National Pensions Reserve Fund and €12 billion sweated from the backs of people through austerity. If the saving of €1 billion was to have any meaning, the Government would eliminate the home tax which, in turn, would free up people's spending money and stimulate the economy.

The announcement of this great deal took place at the same time as the Central Statistics Office revealed horrendous statistics about those living in poverty. In the past year the level of those living in consistent poverty has increased to 7% of the population. The Labour Party's solution is to put a private debt on the shoulders of the people concerned. To me, it is an absolute betrayal and will not be the forerunner for economic recovery. The Government has simply decided to use the continuing policies of austerity to bleed people dry. That is not the way forward and the people will realise this in the near future.

Deputy Seamus Healy

This is not the debt of the people but a private debt which has been placed on the shoulders of our children and grandchildren. IBRC may be gone but the debt has not. It has also been turned into a €64 billion debt rather than a €35 billion debt. The Government claims it has saved significant amounts of money on this debt.

Going into the last general election, the Labour Party claimed it would look after the vulnerable and low and middle-income families during the Government's term. If billions will be saved in the deal, it is incumbent on the Labour Party to use the money to ensure low and middle-income families are supported and protected. However, the cuts to home help services have still not been reversed. During the course of the deal the Minister for Social Protection and deputy leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Joan Burton, issued a circular, No. 1/2/13, to community welfare officers to stop paying grants for religious ceremonies. In other words, it stops needy families getting a few euro in a grant when their children are making their First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Will the Minister of State, Deputy Alex White, get the Minister for Social Protection to reverse that mean, nasty and shameful cut that affects needy families? There is significant poverty in the country. Up to 90,000 children are living in consistent poverty, while 232,000 are living in relative poverty. Up to 750,000 adults are at risk of poverty. While billions will be saved in the deal, not a single ha'penny of it will go to protect the vulnerable, as the Labour Party claimed it would do in the course of the last general election.

The Minister for Finance has made great play in comparing the deal to a home mortgage and an historic reduction in capital repayments through inflation. The lenders will be compensated for this inflationary effect by a vastly increased total interest bill paid by the home owner. However, there is a better analogy. The deal is like extending the period of a mortgage not on one's own home but on someone else's for which one does not have any liability.

From the point of view of the people, the liabilities of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society were never ours. This debt was wrongly placed on the shoulders of the people by the previous Government. By making this deal the Government has agreed that it is the debt of the people. It has sanctioned the betrayal of the previous Government - so much for the accusation of economic treason levelled by the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, against Fianna Fáil and the Green Party.

The Government did not seek a formal write-down of debt. Therefore, the outcome is that the debts of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation are now even more firmly nailed to State debt than heretofore. Where now are the calls of Fine Gael and the Labour Party for burden sharing? When are the calls for separating bank debt from sovereign debt? The deal may result in a short-term easing of repayments for the State but at the expense of future generations and anyway it is not our debt. The transfer of the debt of bondholders onto the shoulders of our children and grandchildren is shameful. This easing may not last long because the ECB has the sword of Damocles over the deal. It can direct the Central Bank of Ireland to float the bonds and place them in the private markets, in which the interest rate will not be 0.75% but 3% or more and represent a remarkable burden on the people. Naturally, the ECB will use this to ensure the Government will dance to the tune of austerity and continue the measures it has been pursuing since it came to power.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan

Bhí mé i mo shuí anseo an tseachtain seo caite ag éisteacht leis an Taoiseach agus ina dhiaidh sin leis an Aire. Bhí mé ag súil go mbeadh rud iontach ag teachta a bheadh dearfach don tír seo. I was in the House last week and wanted to share in the good news and take part in the applause. I also wanted to believe it was good news. I come to this debate without a background in or studying economics. Therefore, I look at the newspapers. Certainly, the views of the economists appear to have been favourable because the headlines suggested the deal would cut borrowing by €20 billion and ease the next budget; that it was a considerable achievement for the coalition parties; that it was a highly important political achievement; that the deal would be worth €8 billion to the State; and that austerity in the coming years would be less harsh owing to the debt deal. In fact, the bond markets reacted positively. The views expressed in the national newspapers appeared to be favourable, while the international media appeared to be of the same opinion. The New York Times stated it was another important milestone in our slow emergence from the crisis. A German newspaper saw the deal as Ireland winning the argument and suggested it was of financial and symbolic importance to it.

However, there is a major "but". It is rather like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted because the horse should have been kept in the stable in the first place. By this I mean the debt, amounting to billions of euro that was put into Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society, should never have been incurred. During the debate on the Magdalen laundries last week I said the episode was a shameful event in our history. The signing of the deal in 2008 was also a shameful event, committing €35 billion to Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society, especially without agreement by the electorate. The nation began a journey on a very rocky road of paying for something it had had no hand, act or part in. There was a process of allowing individuals from various banks and organisations who are now household names to shirk responsibility for what they had done. We accept that those who commit murder, go into drug dealing or commit robberies and assault will be imprisoned and punished. However, anyone can commit an economic crime of vast proportions, with catastrophic effects on the country, and nothing will happen to such a person. Life goes on as usual. It is business as usual, or if not in Ireland, in some foreign country where profits are built up again. This leads to further inequalities, whereby the individuals responsible who appear to have lost considerable wealth continue on with remarkable levels of income and resources. On the other hand, the people are making sacrifices and, as the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, pointed out this morning, losing their homes and enduring salary cuts, with the consequent effects on emotional and mental health.

The original agreement was an affront to democracy. At the time there did not appear to be any confronting or standing up to the ECB but rather capitulation because we were told ATMs would be left without money and that people would have to go without their salaries. Whom were we protecting? It was not the nation but shadowy figures from European banks. Recklessness and gambling were rewarded. The intolerable burden has continued and we know of the consequent cost to the country because of the very harsh budgets introduced since. I realise the Government was under considerable pressure to secure a deal and have no doubt that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, and officials put hours into the negotiations. In this context, what was achieved was considerable, given that we were told a write-down was not available because seemingly the ECB had never agreed to a write-down for any country in Europe. The Minister for Finance stated there was no point making a demand which he knew would not be met because it would amount to starting off on the wrong foot. Clearly, he does not remember the lovely phrase from the New Testament, "Ask and you shall receive". We will never know what would have happened.

The speed at which events unfolded last week was disquieting and reminiscent of another momentous event that occurred recently. What has been achieved? Something has been achieved in the short term, but the problem has been shifted to the next generation. My question is whether that is appropriate or moral because the losses of Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Nationwide Building Society are still being borne by the people and they constitute a vast burden on a small nation. We have a workforce of approximately 1.8 million people but a vast private bank debt. Where is there fair burden sharing with other eurozone members? How can we recover our economic sovereignty in these circumstances when we see hardship all around?

EUROSTAT has confirmed that Ireland has paid more than any other state to rescue the banks. Some have estimated that we have paid almost 50 times more than any other country. The Nevin Economic Research Institute has suggested Ireland has paid 42% of the total EU bank debt. I realise we have a reputation for being a generous country, but this should be for humanitarian reasons, as it has been in the past, not to rescue failed bankers because of recklessness. I wanted to believe the agreement was good for Ireland and share in the elation, but the problems remaining include that the original bank guarantee placed an intolerable burden on Ireland and was based on the premise that no bank should fail, not even Anglo Irish Bank, and that regardless of the effects on a nation, no bondholder should suffer. Another problem was not asking for or discussing the need for a write-down. The line was that because the ECB was expected to say "No", the question was not even asked. A further problem is the lack of fair burden sharing. It may be the case that we have a cheaper debt now, but it is a debt we should not have had in the first place and of which no real impact analysis was made.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Bernard J. Durkan)

I call on the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Alex White, who will be followed by Deputies Liam Twomey, Eoghan Murphy and Jim Daly.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Alex White)

I cannot disagree with much of what Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan has said, with one exception, that is, on the question that has come up from time to time as to why the Government did not ask for a write-down and the suggestion one might have been available had the Government simply asked for it. Let us examine this suggestion. Let us imagine the Government and the Central Bank are in negotiations with the European Central Bank. The Government must deal with the institutions also. It is operating in a situation where a sovereign promise has been made on behalf of the State, one which the Government assumed in 2011. It must face the realities and the facts presented to it. Then it discovers that what can only be described as a hard line is being taken on the promissory notes and other commitments entered into on behalf of the Irish sovereign. There is an attempt to renegotiate these instruments and so-called deals. The Government was engaging in that process and encountered considerable difficulty in persuading people to move to its point of view, but it persisted nevertheless. It is being suggesting that in the course of that activity the Government should have asked the ECB to delete the entire arrangement. Is there any credibility associated with taking such a course of action in any circumstance, not just in the circumstances pertaining to sovereign debt?

Let us suppose one goes to a bank, or anyone, to renegotiate a debt and one is seeking better terms but then one suggests that before getting into the detail, the other party should simply write off the debt. I am sorry if it sounds strange - I certainly do not wish to make fun of any Member in the House for one minute - but there is no credibility associated with adopting such a position. It would affect one's credibility in doing the job one had to do, that is, to renegotiate. Such a stand would reduce and undermine immediately one's credibility and perception as a party able to bring about an agreement in a renegotiation.

It is a credibility issue. I agree with practically everything that Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan has said but the notion that we should suck it and see is devoid of reality or credibility. The actions of this Government will have to be assessed. Deputy Colreavy pointed out that the Government will have to face the people, as will his own party at some stage. We will have to account for what we did and did not do. We entered office at a time of unprecedented crisis and economic and financial collapse. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan correctly noted that the private debts of failed banks and financial institutions had been lumped onto the backs of the Irish people and were transformed almost overnight into sovereign debt. One of the instruments used to achieve this was the promissory note, which contained a solemn and sovereign promise by the State. Listening to Sinn Féin one would believe this promise was made last week but it happened in 2010 as the inevitable consequence of the profoundly mistaken blanket guarantee introduced in 2008.

The new Government had to contend with the most onerous challenges ever faced by a sovereign Irish Government if, indeed, we accept we were still sovereign at that stage. Both Government parties undertook to renegotiate the debt. Deputy Martin has a habit of suggesting that the Labour Party and Fine Gael promised to burn the bondholders but that certainly was not the position for my party. We always spoke about renegotiation. We never said we would repudiate sovereign commitments made on our behalf, much as we regard them as odious and outrageous. Sinn Féin has been in government in Stormont for several years and it knows that when a Minister makes a legal agreement on behalf of a Government, he or she binds his or her successors to that agreement. The new Minister does not get to start afresh on coming into office. Sinn Féin Deputies know that when a sovereign Irish Government makes a commitment on the part of the people and the State, its successors are bound to that commitment. This is basic stuff but it does not mean we should neglect our responsibility to seek to renegotiate a better deal.

Deputy Clare Daly spoke about celebrations. I am not in a celebratory mode. God knows, there is little to celebrate in this situation but I ask her to be reasonable and acknowledge that the arrangement introduced last week is a considerable improvement on what existed heretofore. Deputy Wallace cited an article by a former IMF official but he failed to quote the opening paragraphs, which noted that while the task ahead remains daunting, Ireland will benefit from the reprieve this important achievement offers. We should assess whether the Government achieved a good outcome in the context of the circumstances in which it was required to operate rather than ask why the Government did not seek to unwind or roll back on commitments made on behalf of the State when the latter option was not available. Deputy Colreavy knows that as well as anybody else. I care more about this country than about the prospects of any particular political party, including my own. If Sinn Féin manages to garner more support in the community in the next election, I hope to God that it puts together credible economic and financial policies that can sustain this country. At present it is devoid of credibility.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

The Minister of State should study our policies.

Deputy Liam Twomey

When listening to Opposition contributions, I am sure Members on these benches wonder what Government would be like if, for example, Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan was Minister for Finance and Deputy Mattie McGrath was his Minister for State. What sort of catastrophe would ensue if their rhetoric became a reality? I do not think Sinn Féin is as financially illiterate as its rhetoric in the national media and this House suggests. It is simply the usual story of playing politics with people's fear and anger. I have heard talk of crocodile tears from Opposition Members who would prefer instead to play Russian roulette with people's lives in order to see what would happen if we default. Will social welfare be cut by 25%? Will teachers' and nurses' pay be cut by 25%? Put a bullet in the chamber and see what happens.

The Members opposite cannot believe that sort of nonsense unless they are stuck in an ideological time warp from the days of Soviet five year plans. We saw what happened to that experiment. It disappeared, unless North Korea is the new poster boy for running a modern economy. To some degree, the comments that have been made are pure lies. We are stuck with a contractual obligation in the promissory note. It is not toxic debt and no amount of spin changes that. If we did not pay it we would have defaulted. We have negotiated a space to get out of our current economic mess. The economy is still fragile and requires considerable support to nurse it back to health. I do not understand why the Deputies opposite are so keen to pay the money back over the next eight years. At the same time they want to default. Neither option will work for the people of Ireland. We have to create confidence so that people can get back to work in this country. Reference was made to the former employees of Anglo Irish Bank. A very large number of people have jobs that are precarious and they are worried about their futures. The central concern of Government policy over the past two years was to provide the support these people need.

I was a Member of the Oireachtas in 2010. I recall the image of A.J. Chopra crossing the road from the Merrion Hotel to Government Buildings. That image represents the loss of our economic sovereignty. Such was people's concern for the country that they were visibly relieved to see the IMF take over the economy. Trojan work has been done to restore our image internationally. I recently attended an OECD conference on banking and financial systems in Paris. Every country in Europe recognises what we have done for ourselves.

We know that austerity is miserable and tough on people but it can always get worse. I will not vote for a Government that plays Russian roulette with people's lives. We have to consider every decision we make because we can easily damage our economy and the international reputation that we have just about restored. This is why we are getting foreign direct investment. We will soon be able to borrow again on the international markets. By next December we will be on the verge of exiting this programme. That is a great achievement against the background of maintaining educational and health services, restoring the minimum wage and taking 300,000 people out of the universal social contribution net. I do not expect Sinn Féin or the Technical Group to give us credit for that achievement.

If any criticism was to be made of the Government, it would be that although it is doing well at government, it is just not playing the politics as well as some members of the Opposition.

I heard Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan on my local radio station on Friday and he was either economically illiterate or playing politics. He was making it up as he went along, and did not like being corrected. I am sure the same goes for other Deputies right across the country. Sinn Féin representatives and other Members of the Opposition are given free rein on radio. We need to get out and sell what we are doing more strongly than we are. The Government has worked unbelievably well considering the crisis the country has been in, the fragility of our economic situation and the fact we have a long road to travel before we get back to where we were. There is a need for more honesty and the media needs to highlight that. Overall, this was a good deal for Ireland. It has created the space for us to come out of the crisis. I wish the Government every bit of luck and support for the coming years.

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

Agreements entered into must be honoured. Pacta sunt servanda is an incredibly important tenet of international relations. We are an island, but we exist in the world and much of what we do depends on our partners in that world, particularly in the European Union and the eurozone.

This is a welcome deal. It is important to recognise that it is a deal negotiated between parties. When a negotiation takes place, it involves compromise. When we make a compromise, we do not get exactly what we want and the deal will never be perfect. However, we should recognise that the deal achieved by the Government is the best possible outcome that could have been achieved in the negotiations. Hopefully, those who advocated a zero sum approach - putting the barrel of the gun to the head, or Russian roulette - with our international partners, will now recognise the folly of that type of approach. Although tough talking about high stakes might sound good, when it comes to the wealth of the nation - not just the financial wealth but its factors of production, land, labour, capital and enterprise - the risks are too high and the supposed benefits are too uncertain to take that kind of gamble.

The Government should be congratulated on the strategy it has adopted, on seeing that strategy through successfully, quietly and with determination, and on ignoring the criticisms constantly levelled at it over the past two years, both in this Chamber and outside. It set out to improve Ireland's reputation abroad, to increase foreign investment in the country, to commit ourselves wholly to the corrective measures that needed to be taken, to stabilise the economy and to drive bond yields down so that the European Central Bank and others could have confidence in the country and invest in Ireland again. This was the strategy, and in renegotiating the promissory notes last week as the Government did, we have shown that strategy has worked. It is important that we recognise that. It is not about putting on happy faces or gloating, but about recognising a good deal when it comes.

The deal will not solve all our problems, but the benefits should be recognised. It will help reduce our borrowing costs in the coming years and reduce general Government debt. It will help us find a pathway to making the debt more sustainable and will help with the deficit reductions that need to take place over the coming years. It will help put us on a surer footing as we exit the bailout. These are positives and should be acknowledged. I am not saying that people should not challenge the Government; I am not an opponent of criticism where it is just. However, we must recognise there is also a need for balance. Opponents of the Government need to accept this is a good deal for this country, recognise that and move on. This is not about deference. As the Tánaiste said previously, that age has passed. There is a need for balance and common sense, and when a good act is done for the country in important negotiations, that should be recognised and welcomed.

We must move on now, because there is a lot more with which we must deal. This deal does not change the financial imperative to correct the imbalance in our national finances and reduce the deficit as quickly as possible. That challenge has not gone away. We are still spending too much and must reduce spending. We are spending some money in the wrong way and need reform. This is what we must do and we must do it quickly. We must recognise that this deal will help us do that quickly and in a better and more sustainable way. We must be careful not to return to the giveaway mentality of the past, the mentality that tried to buy support from constituent elements of the population by either shouting a cause where there was none or by promising money where there was none. Today's times require greater responsibility than that.

Of course, some people face difficulties and need the help of the State. Some element of trust must be returned to politics. People need to trust their politicians again and they need to trust the economic strategy the Government is undertaking, because it is working. It is cutting the deficit, reforming the Government purse and growing the economy. At every point of that growth, we are trying to facilitate job creation where we can. Unemployment is the great structural problem in the economy today and that is what we need to fix. This deal will help us to address that huge problem.

Deputy Jim Daly

Fáiltím roimh an deis seo labhairt ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo. Táim an-bhródúil a bheith mar chuid den Rialtas a raibh in ann an Bhille seo a chur os comhair Tithe an Oireachtais. Ní dóigh liom go ndéanfaidh mé dearmad riamh ar an lá stairiúil sin, an Déardaoin seo caite, nuair a tháinig an Taoiseach, an Tánaiste agus na hAirí isteach os ár gcomhair le haghaidh forálacha an chomhaontuithe a chur os ár gcomhair. Ní hamháin ar mo shon féin a labhraím nuair a chuirim fáilte roimh an comhaontú seo, ach ar son mhuintir iarthar Chorcaí a thogh mé dhá bhliain ó shin.

It is not my views and opinions I express, but those of the people in west Cork I am honoured to represent, in welcoming this deal. When I knocked on the doors in Bandon last Saturday morning, the relief people felt was evident everywhere. They genuinely welcome this development, not for political gain of any sort or because of any benefit to the Government, but because they are genuinely relieved to see Ireland turning the corner. This is a good and positive development because it has given people hope - people who are struggling and who are challenged financially and who find life so difficult. This deal was a good deal for them and the people I met at their doors last Saturday welcomed it without exception.

Much has been made during this debate of the fairy-tale suggestion that we should write down our debt. Such notional theories provide great fodder for opportunistic, opposition-style politics, but for those of us who exist in the real world, we embrace and welcome this development. The idea that some fairy godmother heading up the European Central Bank would wave her magic wand and wipe away debts of billions of euro is utter nonsense. It is farcical to say the least.

The Government sought and received a mandate from the people to go back to Europe and renegotiate this arrangement, which was going to cost the country €3.1 billion every year. The Government has honoured that mandate and I am extremely proud of that achievement. My pride and gratitude are not of a political nature but based on the benefits that will accrue to this generation of hard-pressed citizens. Another notional theory is that this is not our debt. This again is a fantasy proposed by opportunistic opposing politics. Nobody here has the ability or the luxury to rewrite history. We cannot do that. It would be necessary to rewrite the terms of history if we were to disown the State and make that our starting point. Rightly or wrongly, the decision to save the banks was taken by a previous Administration. I do not pretend to be qualified to judge that decision. Time will be the ultimate judge of that. There are many views of what should have been done, but some of these have the benefit of hindsight.

As I have said here previously, the idea of a write-down is the same as a default. It would be farcical to aspire to a default. A default should never be an aspiration.

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand the Sinn Féin speakers were to take their time next but, as they are not present, we will proceed with the Technical Group.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I thank the Technical Group for allowing me some of its time. Recently, Fintan O'Toole wrote an article entitled "Debt deal is normalising the Irish freak show".

The article started:

There is the old story of the 18th century French lothario sitting at dinner beside a famously virtuous lady. "Will you sleep with me?" he asks. "Certainly not, how dare you suggest such a thing!" "Let us suppose, then, that I am the king of France and I offered half the kingdom for one night with you. Would you agree?" "Well, perhaps, but you are not the king of France." "Very well, then, we have agreed the principle, so all that remains is to negotiate the terms."

And so it was with Ireland’s promissory notes. Once any semblance of moral principle had been abandoned, all that was left was to negotiate the terms of surrender. And we’re still going to get screwed.

The Government has done its best in recent days to convince the Irish people that this is a great deal. It is not a great deal. The gambling debts of others have been firmly placed on our shoulders and those of our children and grandchildren.

This Government has never actively sought a write-down of the debt burden that has been placed on us. Our small economy has to bear a staggering 43% of the entire cost of the European Union bank bailout, which is an amazing statistic. Every Irish citizen will have to put up €9,000, whereas the average European citizen will have to fork out €191. In recent days, those who support this Government in this House have been blowing about the saving of €20 billion that will be made. This is not true. The €20 billion figure has been continually cited by the Government, but the correct figure is €8 billion. I am not trying to say this is a small sum of money. The bottom line is that the hard-pressed taxpayers of this country will still be paying two thirds of the cost of the promissory notes in the absence of a reduction in the capital sum which, in my opinion, we did not owe in the first instance.

I would like to read another extract from this week's article by Fintan O'Toole, who is a respectable national journalist. He does not have to engage in bullying tactics, resort to name-calling or make derogatory comments about people in order to earn his living. It is good to see a national journalist who does not have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to earn a living every week. The article continued:

Michael Noonan is now the daddy, of course, and he has carried off with great aplomb the ultimate act of normalising the freak show. The promissory notes were a monstrous freak, the star exhibit in the gallery of grotesques that is the Irish bank bailout. Its one virtue was in being so obviously freakish: the extortion of more than €30 billion from 1.8 million workers to pay entirely private debts is right up there with the Elephant Man and the Lobster Boy. Roll up! Roll up!

Deputy Tom Hayes

What about the Irish debt belonging to the Irish people?

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

Mr. O'Toole pointed out that "last week’s deal was all about grand [theft] on an almost unimaginable scale [being] transformed into a plain, boring old fact". I remind the House that before the 2011 general election, the current Minister, Deputy Varadkar, insisted that "Anglo Irish Bank is not getting another cent of our money - Not another cent"?

Deputy Brian Hayes

Correct. It has not got another cent.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

He can tell that to his grandchildren. The public is not fooled by the Government's spin. The people know they will give decades working to see their hard-earned money leaving the country to pay for debt that they never had a hand, act or part in incurring in the first instance. This is a shame. Regardless of how much spin the Government puts on it, nothing will ever take from these facts. It may take a long time before the people who applauded this deal in this Chamber rue the day they did so - it may not be this month or next month - but that day will eventually come. They are perfectly entitled to their opinions on the matter. When the vote on this motion takes place, it will probably be the last time this House divides on the question of converting Ireland's bank debt into sovereign debt. The Cabinet did not ask for the €30 billion burden to be shared with the other eurozone members. Why did it not even try?

When the promissory notes were issued in 2010, all functioning Irish banks were already protected by the State's guarantee. Irish deposits in Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation could have been protected for a fraction of the €30.6 billion cost of the promissory notes. All €22.5 billion of senior debt in Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation has been paid in full or will be paid in full shortly. There is an irrefutable case for the €30.6 billion burden to be shared with other eurozone members, which are benefitting from the promissory notes through the stabilisation of their banks. The Government can call it what it wants - a promissory note one day and sovereign debt the next day - but once a freak show, always a freak show, as Fintan O'Toole would say.

I am concerned this massive debt burden will have to met by children who are not yet born, even though it was not incurred by them or their parents in the first instance. It is a shame. I would be the first person to compliment a Government if I thought it was doing the right thing. I would be the first person to praise Ministers if I thought they were doing the right thing. I do not think that is the case in this instance, unfortunately. Like many other people, I do not agree with what is being done. At the end of the day, we are where we are. The Government's majority means that its views and opinions on various matters can be pushed through in the Dáil.

Deputy Tom Fleming

The much-awaited deal on the promissory notes gives us some restricted breathing space for economic growth. I hope it will give us a break from the crippling austerity measures of the last five or six years. However, it still leaves the country with a mountain to climb. While there is a positive side to this long-running saga, the reality is that we will not begin to pay off the principal on the new bonds until 2038. We will continue to make the principal payments until 2053, thereby burdening the coming generations. The promissory note payments, when taken with the interest payments, will come to a total of €48 billion, which is a stupendous figure. This deal certainly does not get us off the hook. We will still have a colossal debt. To put it in context, our total national debt is approximately €190 billion.

The decision to provide for a blanket guarantee was a grave error. Essentially, an open cheque was given to the banks and their foreign bondholders on behalf of our citizens. If we had a rational and ethical national political system, we would have guaranteed all deposits while making it clear at the time of the guarantee that we would negotiate with the bond holders on the basis of our ability to pay some percentage of the value of subordinated and senior bonds. Many of the shareholders at this time were elderly people - pensioners, by and large - who had invested small amounts of money to cover their expenses in their old age. The value of their shares was practically wiped out. As a result of this guarantee, the State was shut out of the bond markets, in effect. Investors lost confidence in our ability to repay our debts. We were charged exorbitant interest rates.

In 2010, the State had to seek help from the EU and the IMF to save us from economic meltdown. We all know that we received €85 billion in so-called "help" at that time. Many conditions were attached to the European package, which carried a penal interest rate of 5.83%. After some negotiation by the Government, that rate was reduced to just over 3%. Even Greece got a much better deal at that time.

There were many question marks surrounding the accuracy of the data on its economic situation.

There is a question regarding the quality of the deal. I know it was achieved in adverse circumstances, with a lot of intricate negotiating behind the scenes, and I would certainly give credit to everybody involved in a difficult situation. However, because of the variable interest rates applied to it, we do not know what will ultimately happen. If the interest rates rise, we will be screwed, to put it mildly, and I note that interest rates are currently at 5% in Britain. We are also well aware that, historically, there have been long periods in world history during which inflation was close to zero. Therefore, while we are very dependent on inflation rates rising in the next 40 years to assist us by wiping out the capital sum we eventually have to pay, this is based on voodoo economics - it is a case of "Live horse, get grass". I believe we need to review this matter in order to achieve a zero interest rate with a payment timeframe of 90 or 100 years, a much longer period than has been agreed. There is an international precedent in that Germany, following the First World War, was allowed an open-ended timeframe to pay back reparation moneys to the Allies. This payment was only completed in the recent past and, therefore, Germany had over 90 years in which to pay. We should strive to renegotiate certain aspects of the deal in this regard.

We received pious platitudes some months back from EU leaders who said they regarded us as a special case and that Ireland would have to be treated in a unique fashion. However, following that, they have really put us through the ropes and they have not fully acknowledged their earlier statements. There is a strong case to be made for a debt write-down. The actions to address our dire situation were prolonged and cumbersome, to say the least.

On 19 December last the IMF warned that Ireland's economy could stagnate, leaving the country in a distressed state for years to come. It warned the European Union to help cut the burden of our bank debt and gave a strong signal to the European Central Bank that it must act decisively on the €31 billion in promissory notes. While there has been action in that regard, the IMF also referred to the more than €30 billion pumped into the two pillar banks, Bank of Ireland and AIB - we might call them the "good" banks. In any case, it is good riddance to Anglo Irish Bank. There will be no one mourning it because people are glad to see the back of it. However, the IMF and its managing director, Ms Christine Lagarde, indicated that we would get some reprieve for the two pillar banks, so we should aim to renegotiate in that regard also.

The IMF noted that the Merkel-Sarkozy axis focused very much on debt reduction through austerity and increased competitiveness as the most effective means of combating the crisis. In October 2012, however, the IMF concluded that it might have got its basic economics wrong and conceded not only that austerity does not work but that it is counterproductive. Ms Lagarde realised at the time that the IMF's economic model was wrong, which implies that the fiscal compact to which we signed up will, in time, actually destroy Europe's economy. The fact is the current austerity budgets are here to stay for some time. The €1 billion in annual savings will be used to pay off debt, for example. As Deputy Jim Daly remarked earlier, the ordinary people in the street are asking what this means for them, their families and their futures. The reality is that we will still be faced with severe measures in the coming years. I hope the Government will take up this case with the troika in a more aggressive manner. We will have to get some concessions for our citizens, who are at present driven through the ground by the draconian measures of the previous six years, which have really taken their toll. The other issue is that we will be striving to get the deficit below 3% by 2015. We must have a balance. People have taken enough and, at this stage, they are disillusioned. We must give a break to the general public and work to make their lives easier.

Today saw the launch of the Caritas Europa report entitled "The Impact of the European Crisis", the contents of which are very worrying for this country and show the huge job ahead of us to bring our country back into shape and make us more solvent. This report, the first in-depth examination of the impact of austerity policies on people in the five EU countries worst affected by the economic crisis, concludes that the policy of prioritising austerity is not working. Ireland, Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain are the focus of the report, which, using statistics, highlights historically high levels of unemployment in Europe, with more than 10% of the labour force out of work. It states that children are at a greater risk of poverty or social exclusion than the rest of the population in 21 of the 25 member states for which data is available, and Ireland is among those 21. The study strongly challenges current official suggestions that the worst of the economic crisis is over. It presents a picture of a Europe in which social risks are increasing, social systems are being tested and individuals and families are under stress. The report highlights the extremely negative impact austerity policies have on the lives of vulnerable people, and reveals that many others are being driven into poverty for the first time. It provides a worrying picture of the overall situation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Áine Collins who is sharing time with Deputies Feighan, Doyle and Hayes. The Deputies have five minutes each.

Deputy Áine Collins

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the promissory notes arrangement. When the history books are written about the period from September 2008 to February 2013, I wonder how they will read and what they will say. The Fianna Fáil-Green Party Government of the day spoke of a soft landing. If an opinion poll was carried out about that soft landing, I wonder how it would read today. As a society, we must decide what we want. Do we want a Government that has the best interests of its people at heart or one that says "yes" to everything, throws money at problems and cares more about winning elections than anything else?

The thrust of this Government is to repair the broken economy we inherited after Fianna Fáil. Our people were lying in the gutter, demoralised and without hope and our European and wider global reputation was destroyed. Government Ministers and particularly the Taoiseach have worked tirelessly to repair our reputation. This was a starting point for the outcome we received last week. This achievement is not a magic bullet but is a powerful step in the right direction. We must work to fix our legacy bank debt as well as our personal debt, which is crippling many families.

We aim to get some significant outcomes on those over the coming months. What has been achieved is stability, sustainability and certainty. I wish to clarify for Sinn Féin and others that the promissory note was signed by the Irish Government of the day. In other words, this was a guarantee by the State to pay. I know Sinn Féin and others put forth much rhetoric about getting a write down, which makes it seem like they are caught in some time warp or a "Back to the Future" moment, the ECB legally cannot right off debt and has never done so.

The promissory note is torn up and what was a short-term loan at 8.5% interest is now a long-term loan of 40 years with no capital repayments for 25 years and an interest rate of less than 1%. Who can predict what will happen in five years, never mind 40 years? This lifts a significant burden from the State for the next ten years. It gives us greater cash flow and economic flexibility with a net benefit of €1 billion a year which will not have to be collected in taxes or saved in spending and we will no longer have to borrow that €25 billion to repay the guarantee. The benefits are already obvious we see Standard & Poor's has improved its outlook on Ireland from a negative to stable. Interest rates on borrowing have already reduced. This will benefit Government borrowing but also business borrowing, which will improve confidence and lead to job creation. I thank and pay tribute to our Minister for Finance and his team for their strategy, commitment and tireless work in achieving this arrangement.

Deputy Frank Feighan

I remember sitting in this House nearly five years ago and the blanket agreement to bail out our banks, which turned out to be probably one of the greatest mistakes any Minister for Finance has made. It showed that after 14 years, the then Government was more interested in winning elections than dealing with financial issues. We had an election less than two years ago. This country fell over a financial cliff. Industries, businesses and families have suffered because of years of what was effectively misappropriation and because the country's finances were not dealt with. People in my town and constituency who were once involved in business and creating wealth and jobs are now bankrupt. There is a trail of destruction across our society. Young couples are in negative equity or are out of work and without hope. Tens of thousands of our brightest and best, namely, our young people, are emigrating to the UK, the US, Canada and Australia.

This deal on the resolution of the promissory note delivers on our commitment to put in place a fairer and more sustainable arrangement than the promissory note. Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society, which have been toxic institutions, have been removed from the financial and political landscape. Most important, the deal gives hope. It will give hope to the tens of thousands of young people who will want to come back to this country. They have been away for two years. It will create the climate in which they will be able to come back, start up their businesses and work in this country. I hope they would come back with significant expertise. Some of them have made money and this Government must ensure that they can thrive and prosper.

I thank the Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister of State with responsibility for Public Service Reform and the OPW for the work they have done. We must also thank John Moran and his staff in the Department of Finance and many other civil and public servants who work in the service of this State because their service to this State should not go unnoticed. They did more than they were paid for but they respected confidentiality. In the annals of time, they can hold their heads up high for the public service they delivered to the State. The work carried out by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade was magnificent. This did not happen overnight. I read a report in a newspaper last Sunday that described the work that went on and it brought a tear to my eye. I felt for once that this Government was providing hope and that much of the heavy work has been done. We are providing a future.

The State will no longer have to pay €3.1 billion at the end of every March and we will not have to make the principal payment until 2038. If somebody gave me €1,000 to invest in my business to keep it going and told me that I could pay €10 per year for the next 40 years and would only have to pay back €1,000 after 40 years, I would think that the greatest deal ever. There should be some generosity out there. When I was in opposition, I thanked the Government when I felt it made the right decision and took it to task when I felt it was making the wrong decision. Politics is not about opposing everything, rather, it is about working together. Let us admit that this is a good deal, not for the Government, Fine Gael or Labour but for this country. I hope we can work together to ensure that we provide the right climate. Many of these businesses will never come back. Perhaps they were living in a different world but we must provide the climate that allows the young people in Australia, Canada, the US, England and Ireland to have a future.

Deputy Andrew Doyle

I do not normally become engaged in some of what passes for combative discussion or debate across the Chamber. I am somewhat amused by the current debate. If I was to summarise the opinion of the Opposition, it would be something like this. It said it could not be done and now it is saying it should not have been done. We were told that in the likely event that we were not going to get a deal on the promissory note, we had to take actions X, Y and Z. We have now secured all the things the Opposition said would not be achieved. I have heard Germany and its bond debt mentioned. We should remember that when Germany secured its loans internationally on two occasions in the 20th century, its economy was on its knees. Due to the structure of those loans, Germany was able to grow its economy to the extent that it is now the largest economy in Europe, probably the third largest economy in the world and the largest exporter in Europe. During that time, it had to spend ten years absorbing the impact of the reunification of the country when it took the East German mark on a one-for-one basis. It still managed to come out the other side because its debt was structured in such a way that it allowed it to do it and grow its economy in such a dramatic fashion. Germany has learned its lessons and that is what we need to do.

Some say that the best outcome would have been to default - proponents say write down but it is the same thing - knowing full well that this would never happen and we would never have to live with the consequences of that action. We have only to look at the markets' response.

Everyone knows the market has no sentiment, but bond market investors will finance the country when we exit the programme, I hope at the end of the year. With this in mind, it was folly for some to wait until the weekend to devise a new plan to counter what had been a significant achievement. They then had the audacity to say that because the guillotine on the debate had been lifted, they wanted more time to speak because they were the only ones with the authority to offer an opinion on it. It is galling. I do not get annoyed too often, but speakers this morning were patronising. I am referring to my colleagues, but I will not get personal. The rest of us also have an opinion on the issue. Some of us survived in business through the 1980s and 1990s. We had to pay our way and pay our workers, through bad times, with double digit inflation and interest rates at nearly 20%, but we survived. It is a question of survival and I am confident the country will survive.

The country has been held back by three significant obstacles, one of which is the bank debt which is in two parts. We need to work immediately on one side of that debt. The Department of Finance and diplomatic staff are exploring every means of engagement to secure our debt. The ESM has to be fully established and funded. The third obstacle is personal debt. The Government and the Oireachtas, elected by the people, need to seek a better deal from the banks to ensure personal debt is dealt with. The domestic economy depends on it. A number of factors have made us realise the fragility of the agri-food sector. Ireland, the FSAI and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, will be applauded at some stage for taking the required actions, even though there was criticism levelled at them initially.

Deputy Frank Feighan is correct that the Opposition has plenty of opportunities to take a pot at the Government and call it to heel, as is its duty. However, on this occasion it would have been preferable to acknowledge that we had done what some thought we could not do. It is time to move on because that is in all our interests.

Deputy Tom Hayes

Last week was an extraordinary one in Irish politics. I can only compare it with the time when Michael Collins came back with the treaty. The impact of last week's decision on the agreement will be lasting on the people. It will have an impact that will greatly enhance their lives and our opportunities to create jobs and take responsibility back for the running of the country into our own hands. Last week's decision by the House to put Anglo Irish Bank beyond memory was courageous, tough and good for the people. I am proud to be part of a Government that took this action and stood up to the forces that had said it should not be done.

The decision of the European Central Bank to agree to the proposals from the Government will have a lasting effect on the economy. Young people who are still at school and those who are unemployed will see the effects. Above all, it will have a lasting effect on the many people forced to emigrate in recent months and years to Australia, Canada, America and all parts of Europe. The potential for the economy is great.

As a Fine Gael Deputy, I am proud to say the Government made the right decision last week in the interests of all the people. The decision will have a lasting impact in the area of job creation, whether in the agriculture sector or attracting foreign direct investment. Two years ago Ireland would have been regarded as a country in receivership and which was rudderless, not knowing where it was going. Now, under a new Government, we have taken responsibility for our own debt and decided on the road we should take. We are a people prepared to govern ourselves and run a country which pays social welfare, ensures public services are provided and, above all, has an economy in which business can be done.

I invite foreign direct investment interests to consider locations in Ireland such as Cashel in my constituency where an advance factory building has been vacant for the past two years. Because of what happened last week in the Dáil and the agreement with the ECB, Cashel will be an excellent place in which to invest and create employment for young people. Ireland is the place in which to invest for those looking at Europe. We are managing the economy. This is regarded as a country able to look after its business. We are not afraid to argue against other viewpoints. The Government is running the country and making it an efficient place in which to do business. The high level of unemployment, at 416,000, however, presents a challenge. In order to make the country a better place for the people concerned, we need to have an economy that is acceptable to foreign companies in terms of foreign direct investment. Job creation and exports are the key to providing a good living for citizens. Protecting old age pensions and social welfare payments is dependent on having a sound, stable economy. Last week's agreement with the European Central Bank means the week will go down in history as the one in which we made a decision to stand by the people. It is high time for Members on the other side of the House to stop waffling on about issues more to do with getting themselves re-elected than the country. I suggest that for just one week they stop saying the Government is wrong and look at what has been achieved by the Ministers, Deputy Michael Noonan and Deputy Brendan Howlin, the Taoiseach, the other Ministers in the Cabinet and the public servants who fought and worked hard to put a new deal in place.

There is no difference between running a country and running a business. If one's overdraft has gone mad, if one's loans are unmanageable, one is put under stress and as a result, one cannot deal with issues. The country is no different. We were under stress for the past couple of years since we came into government, but thankfully, when decisions are made, these problems are eased. The people will rise to the challenges and put them behind them. Because of the leadership being shown by the Government, it will make this a better place and us a better people. When we look back at the events of early February 2013, it will be marked as one of the greatest periods. Every one of the 166 Deputies, whether in opposition shouting against us or in government shouting with us, will be proud of the decision made by the Government last week. It was a great day's work for the betterment of the people.

It will give rise to both security and opportunity as we seek to develop our society and face the many huge challenges ahead.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Stanley, who is sharing time with Deputies McLellan, Ó Snodaigh and O'Brien. The Deputies will each have five minutes.

Deputy Brian Stanley

Deputy Doyle indicated that there were those who had stated that a substantially altered deal on the promissory notes could not be done. There were others who stated that such a deal should not be done. Sinn Féin said that it should be done. However, the fact is that a substantially altered deal has not been done. The debt relating to the former Anglo Irish Bank has not gone away and the overall debt imposed on the country has become larger. The debt to which I refer had, in light of the interest rates being charged, stood somewhere between €46 billion and €48 billion. In the past week a number of Government spokespersons have indicated that the new interest rate will be an average of 3%. This means that the overall figure will rise to a possible €63 billion or €64 billion. Thousands of people's grandchildren are going to be shackled with that debt and the Government has referred to this as a victory.

I am of the view that the slant being put on last week's deal is completely wrong. There will be some short-term relief in the next number of years. This is good news if people are prepared to look no further into the future. However, we need to consider this matter on a long-term basis. What happened last week smacks of the type of short-termism in which previous Fianna Fáil Governments engaged. The marches that took place last Saturday, organised by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, show that it is not possible to fool all of the people all of the time. As the dust settles, increasing numbers of individuals are going to realise that we have been left with a serious debt. The former Anglo Irish Bank may be gone but its debt remains.

I believe in paying every penny of my debts. I include in that the money borrowed to run the State. As a citizen, I am liable to repay some of those borrowings. I am of the view that we should repay every cent of that debt and I have no objection to our doing so. I do object, however, to the repayment of debts accumulated by rogue bankers in the former Anglo Irish Bank and the former Irish Nationwide Building Society. I do not need to rehearse the facts with regard to how those debts were accumulated. I never gave anyone permission to borrow money on my behalf and such permission was never sought. No one in my community or in any other community throughout the State gave such permission and no one benefited from what was done. Now, however, we are all being saddled with this debt.

My party's position on the promissory notes and the former Anglo Irish Bank's toxic debt is very clear. We are of the view that the State should not pay one cent of that debt. This is a legitimate position and it is held by many people, some of whom are now on the Government benches. Sinn Féin believes that the deal done last week is tantamount to a cave-in. Courage is required and people must stand up to those who are imposing this debt upon us. Unfortunately, such courage has not been forthcoming. Instead, the Government is seeking to turn a short-term win into a long-term gain. This deal will not result in a long-term gain. The debts accumulated by the former Anglo Irish Bank and the former Irish Nationwide Building Society were nothing less than private debts. Many forelocks have been tipped and many people have beat their chests and declared that we Irish are all good Europeans. However, the simple fact is that citizens are being crucified with debt. At present, a small state on the periphery is paying 42% of the total debt of the EU. Two thirds of the inhabitants of this island have been saddled with the debt to which I refer.

Those who believe in Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest champion the deal done last week. The captains of enterprise gambled and lost and we are paying their debts. When these individuals were making huge profits, however, we did not reap any benefits. What happened to the agreement reached by the EU last June? I recall the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste coming before the House and stating that a massive breakthrough had been made and that a seismic shift had occurred. What happened to that deal during the past eight months? What happened to the discussions that were meant to lead to the debt to which I refer reverting to private debt? Surely the fact that we are paying 42% of the entire debt of the EU should have formed the basis to any negotiations.

I am not taking a potshot at the Minister sitting opposite. I am merely stating how I and my constituents - I am sure the position is the same for his constituents - feel about this matter. My constituents are of the view that this is not their debt. The negotiations that were concluded last week should have been based on the premise to the effect that the debt involved is private and that it was the subject of a deal done by a previous Government on the basis of an extremely bad decision that was made in appalling circumstances. We have now been saddled with that debt. The Government has a massive mandate and it would have had the full support of the Opposition if it had adopted a position to the effect that this debt is private.

What will happen to the workers at IBRC? Those people have been treated appallingly. They heard about the liquidation of IBRC only on the morning after the relevant legislation was passed by the House. They went to bed with jobs and woke up without them.

A previous speaker indicated that the ECB does not write down debt. Was it asked to do so, and on how many occasions? Did the Taoiseach or the Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform ask it to write down the debt? I have not heard anyone state that such a request was made of the ECB. If the question in this regard was not asked, then why not? The separation of public and private debt is the issue to be decided upon.

There are 1.8 million people in employment in this country. Many of these citizens, particularly those who are on part-time contracts and who work for minimum wage or less, cannot afford to pay the possible debt of €64 billion to which I referred earlier. That is the key point. We should not be engaging in short-termism. We must start making decisions for the long term which will allow us to plan two or three decades ahead. If we do not do so, there will be a return to the way in which Fianna Fáil used to operate.

Deputy Sandra McLellan

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this exceptionally important and worrying issue. Sinn Féin is completely opposed to the promissory note arrangement. I refer, of course, to the so-called deal that was rushed through Dáil Éireann last week and that has been trumpeted by the coalition and its erstwhile partners in this debacle, Fianna Fáil, as a positive development and a sign that we have somehow turned a corner. It is almost as if the Government and Fianna Fáil expect the people of Ireland to express a collective sigh of relief about the fact that we are finally on a magical road to recovery. The reality is different. The truth is that what happened last week will not give rise to one iota of financial relief for middle or low-income families, the self-employed, small to medium-sized businesses or the almost 500,000 people who are on the live register. Rather, the so-called deal means that we will still be obliged to pay two thirds of the cost of the promissory notes without the capital sum owed being reduced. In other words, we will now only have to pay a mere 66% of the money we did not even owe in the first instance.

This deal will have major ramifications for our society and future generations of Irish people. If one lifts the veil of hype and spin put on the deal by both Fine Gael and the Labour Party, what emerges is a long-term, catastrophic arrangement that will tighten the chains of serfdom around the necks of an already financially stretched population. In Tuesday's edition of The Irish Times, Fintan O'Toole quoted the American writer Michael Lewis as stating that "normalising a freak show is now a meaningful part of the job of being Ireland’s finance minister".

Some 1.8 million workers are now expected to pay back €30 billion of private debt that was never theirs in the first instance. We are informed by the Government and Fianna Fáil that this is a good deal. The context to this matter is set by the huge and disproportionate weight of private debt that was socialised, or lumped on the back of every man, woman and child in this country, by Fianna Fáil. Deputy Michael McGrath stood up in this House and sheepishly welcomed the deal on the promissory notes, while his party leader, Deputy Martin, expressed qualified optimism for the future. People would do well to remember that it was senior politicians such as Deputy Martin, a former Minister, who landed us in this mess in the first place.

Politically, Fianna Fáil must endorse the deal. It has no other option because it was responsible for setting this entire series of events in motion. That party's interests are not compatible with those of the Irish people and the Irish nation. Rather, its primary aim is to perpetuate the myth that bailing out the banks and paying back the bondholders was the only show in town. In this scenario, Joe and Mary Public would shoulder the cost of what is, by any standards, an exorbitant level of private debt, even though, to begin with, their permission to allow this to happen was never sought. Fianna Fáil has no other option. It must continue to peddle this myth, or lie - call it what one will. Were that party to concede, in hindsight, that it had made a great error of judgment on the infamous night when all of these events began to unfold, it would be akin to committing political suicide. Fianna Fáil's sole concern is its own survival. Everything else is secondary. Fianna Fáil will, as we are all too well aware, go to any lengths to cling to power and political office.

Fine Gael and the Labour Party, enthralled by Europe and ideologically committed to the worst aspects of market capitalism, are not much better. They are too willing to sacrifice the future of Irish people, and their children in turn, for a pat on the back from some sophisticated European bureaucrat.

Debate adjourned.

Sitting suspended at 2.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.45 p.m.