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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 10 Oct 2013

Vol. 816 No. 3

Priority Questions

Microenterprise Loan Fund Applications

Dara Calleary

Ceist:

1. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the way the operation of the microfinance fund will be improved to ensure a greater level of successful take-up of the scheme; if he expects it to reach its targets for provision of funding; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42818/13]

I thank Deputy Calleary for raising this important issue. Microfinance Ireland, MFI, began operations in October 2012. It is the first time such a scheme has been put in place in Ireland. By its nature, the scheme is demand driven. To date there have been 295 applications and 107 approvals for a sum of €1.62 million. Some 237 jobs are estimated to have been supported through the scheme. We had hoped at the outset that there would be 500 applicants and a drawdown of €8.8 million. We all have the same objective of making people more aware of the scheme and its benefits.

A key challenge for MFI is to ensure people are aware there is support for new and existing viable microenterprises with perceived or real higher trading risk and which have been refused credit by banks. The modification that banks no longer have to refuse applications is welcome. I am glad to announce that change as banks were taking too long to make decisions. We have received clarification that a general indicative approach from the bank is sufficient ground on which to make an application. That will accelerate applications considerably, which is good news. An information pack will be delivered to all Deputies over the coming week with details of the revised website and new structures to promote this end. There are ongoing promotional and awareness activities to ensure awareness of the scheme is promoted to its full potential among relevant microbusiness groups across all sectors of business.

National and local radio advertising continued throughout the period of January to June 2013. During this period, two main bursts of advertising were commissioned to support both national and local audience reach, including Newstalk, an RTE prime time listenership radio package and 21 local radio stations. MFI has also undertaken a number of other publicity and awareness raising activities, including targeted media releases resulting in coverage in various newspapers, access to finance seminars, breakfast briefings, etc. It is doing its utmost to promote the scheme. Banks were taking too long to give a refusal because there was a requirement for a certification letter. As the main news today is that that is no longer necessary, it will be more effective than any campaign.

I thank Minister of State, Deputy Perry and welcome the Minister, Deputy Bruton, back from his temporary leave of absence. I hope this gig goes better than that one did.

I welcome the change outlined by the Minister of State which needs to be shouted from the rooftops to applicants under the microfinance scheme. I still have queries about the pricing of the scheme. The interest rates are still very expensive, among other issues. The most recent ISME survey to which 1,026 owner-managers responded indicated the average decision time on lending had expanded from four to five weeks. I realise the survey was carried out over the summer period, but both Ministers know there are serious delays in bank decision-making. The overall issue of SME finance is still very important. I have tried on several occasions to get answers to a number of questions which keep being passed up the line to the Department of Finance. Concerning really good SMEs which are trading well but which, because of property issues which arose back in the so-called boom times, are experiencing difficulties, has the Department engaged with the banks in terms of perhaps offering a business version of the split mortgage that would allow businesses to rest that debt, continue to trade and be in a position to service the debt in a number of years?

What kind of engagement has the Minister of State had around that idea or what kind of proposals has he made to the banks for viable day-to-day businesses that are under huge pressure due to property investments? If they can be released from that pressure, they can grow their business and employment and be able to service that debt at some stage in the future.

In respect of microfinance, there will be a major event entitled Taking Care of Business in Dublin on 23 October. Other measures include the midlands think tank awareness and local enterprise offices which will be a real vehicle for pushing the 25,000 applications. The County Enterprise Boards (Dissolution) Bill is going through Seanad Éireann.

In respect of Deputy Calleary's question about the banks, they are very much domestic banks and the Government has ring-fenced €8 billion for the indigenous business population. It is advised that people make applications. Banks have given a significant commitment to the Government and are looking very seriously at where jobs are attached because the 200,000 companies employing 700,000 people are the backbone of the economy. The purpose of government is business. Without doubt, the banks need viable companies. Where people are making a real-time application, where proper due diligence is done on the merits of a business and where they can separate, the banks are quite supportive of that application. The head of the Credit Review Office, John Trethowen, has recommended that the limits on the threshold for appeals by small businesses to the office be extended. The budget will be very much based on business and entrepreneurial activity in the economy but, equally, the support of companies who find themselves with a massive property portfolio and where the viability of the business is questionable. Both of the two banks that are sponsored by the State to a large degree are very much engaging with businesspeople and where people have been refused, there is the code of conduct for banking which has been revised. People can appeal a decision within 21 days. I expect that the recommendation to the Government by Mr. Trethowen that the new limits for appeals to the Credit Review Office be extended from €500,000 to €3 million will be approved. If approved, it will certainly open the facility for businesspeople to fall into a group from which they were previously excluded.

In respect of the credit guarantee and microfinance schemes, this is the time of year when the self-assessment deadline is due. I would encourage Microfinance Ireland to use that database as Revenue is communicating with all self-assessed people to promote the scheme.

We really need to become serious about the Department pushing the Department of Finance to push the banks about some sort of viable product for splitting viable businesses from overhanging debt and property-rated loans that these businesses will service in time. At least, it will give them the break to expand their businesses and employment. I would like to see the Minister of State's Department put pressure on the Department of Finance and for it to be the champion of some model like that. We are offering domestic mortgage holders a range of solutions but this is something that would be directly relevant to many really good businesses if they could move away from their debt - not abandoning it but paying it in time - and to release their capital and energy to grow their business and employment.

I assure the Deputy that the Minister is actively working with the Minister for Finance with regard to the potential for the business sector. We recognise fully that the potential of Ireland lies in its 200,000 small businesses. The banks have very much obliged to support viable companies. We have had excellent facilitation from the Credit Review Office, which has been very successful in a number of applications that had been refused by the bank. There is a better understanding where there would be risk of collateral security and the banks are very much obliged to take on board the guarantee given by the State. The most important micro is the microfinance fund. Microfinance Ireland assured me today that all Deputies will have a new promotional pack that they could leave in their offices so that people can see it when they come to them about microfinance, the personal loan guarantee and the rest of the suite of opportunities and engage directly with the banks because many people do not go through the appeal process. We want to ensure that they do and benchmark the 21 days after which the bank is duty bound to come back with a decision.

Employment Support Services

Sandra McLellan

Ceist:

2. Deputy Sandra McLellan asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the steps he will take to promote employment for those considering emigration and the number of emigrants that have returned to take up employment. [42820/13]

The number of Irish emigrants who have returned to Ireland in the past two years is estimated at 36,000. The CSO does not track their subsequent entry to employment. At a macro level, the Government's strategy is to rebuild the economy and accelerate the transition to a sustainable, jobs-rich economy based on enterprise, innovation and exports. It is in this way that we will create the environment in which sustainable jobs will be created, living standards will be raised and Ireland will be regarded as an attractive location in which to live and work.

I fully recognise the increase in emigration that has occurred since the onset of our economic crisis. I firmly believe that job creation is the most effective policy to tackle emigration. This Department's focus is on employment creation in the enterprise sector. We are doing this through the Action Plan for Jobs and have already seen the positive results of the action being taken across the whole of Government to support the enterprise sector to sustain existing jobs and create new ones. In the past 12 months, an estimated 39,000 jobs have been created in the private sector. It is estimated that over 90% of new jobs have gone to Irish nationals. These opportunities go to a mix of people - some leaving the live register, some entering the labour market for the first time and some returning emigrants. There are many initiatives from other Departments that seek to provide alternative routes for those who might be considering emigration. JobBridge, Springboard, Momentum and JobPlus are all new initiatives supplementing existing programmes in FÁS and the Department of Social Protection.

While 56,000 people came into the State, the CSO figures illustrate that 89,000 people have emigrated over the past year. This figure translates to 1,700 people leaving every week. The recent National Youth Council report found that a quarter of the population had a direct experience of emigration of a close family member and that half of all 18 to 24-year-olds would consider emigrating. We are losing a generation. The Government cannot kid itself that this is acceptable or a lifestyle choice. The recent UCC study by Emigre Project found that 62% of emigrants were graduates. Surprisingly, 47% were in full-time employment while 13% worked part-time and only 23% were unemployed. Most left due to lack of opportunity. Only 22% believe that it is likely that they will return in the next three years.

Since the Government came to power, 43% of the jobs created have been part-time and over one third of all part-time workers are under-employed. What is the Government doing to develop high-quality, full-time jobs and opportunities? What target is it setting to reduce emigration and what targets has the Minister set for getting returning emigrants into employment in the State?

I did not in any way indicate that the level of emigration was satisfactory. Virtually all of the 39,000 jobs created in the past 12 months are full-time. The figures quoted by the Deputy were earlier in the recovery period. What we are seeing is that, initially, there was a concentration on part-time work but as job expansion has gained a foothold, we are seeing a predominance of full-time employment so that is an improvement.

I acknowledge that there is a very significant loss of people with graduate skills. That is undoubtedly the case. Our target has essentially been one of 100,000 additional people at work. That has been the target we set and at the core of that is a successful enterprise strategy. The allocation of those opportunities as between people coming from the live register, people entering the labour market for the first time or returning emigrants is not easy to influence. I see our primary task as creating the opportunities. The pattern has been that in previous recessions, when we get a recovery going, many of the people who left during the recession return with considerable skills and experience. Our central focus is to make this economy strong and sustainable and ensure that the employment sectors we grow are deeply rooted and that people can have confidence in them.

I thank the Minister for his response but I must say that I believe the Government needs to take emigration seriously and set targets for return. It must be about creating full-time employment and actively encouraging emigrants to return and central to this must be targets.

Setting targets for return is tricky. Undoubtedly, we will see a return when we have a strong economy. The Deputy indicated that there is an ebb and flow every year of people who leave Ireland and come back. Even during the boom, 13,000 people were leaving Ireland.

Even now a significant number of Irish people are coming back. The tide ebbs and flows.

I acknowledge that an issue arises in regard to mismatch of skills. We must ensure a closer connection between the choices young people make in education and the opportunities that are available to them. That is a challenge and it is well known we cannot fill positions in certain areas from Irish trained people. We need to work on ways to allow more people to find opportunities at home. Work is being done in that regard through Springboard and the Minister for Education and Skills has committed to doubling the number of ICT graduates over a five year period as part of a joint initiative with my Department. Positive programmes are being developed to address the question of appropriate skills for the growth sectors.

Employment Data

Shane Ross

Ceist:

3. Deputy Shane Ross asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation in view of the latest official forecast for employment, if he will provide a breakdown of the number of jobs he and his Department anticipate being created by each significant sector in the economy, including, specifically, from the high-tech sector, the multinational sector, State enterprise, small and medium businesses, the financial services sector, and agriculture and food, in the next three to five years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42822/13]

Both the Department of Finance and the ESRI have this week produced improved employment forecasts for 2013 and 2014. These improved forecasts are supported by the latest employment statistics published by the Central Statistics Office, which show that employment increased by 33,800 in the year to quarter two of 2013 net of a reduction of 5,400 in public sector numbers. This was the third consecutive quarter where an increase in employment was recorded. Increases in employment have been recorded in nine of the 14 economic sectors categorised by the CSO, including agriculture, forestry and fishing, construction, industry, wholesale and retail and accommodation and food services. Most of these sectors are targeted for attention under the Action Plan for Jobs. We have now moved from a situation where the private sector was losing over 7,000 jobs per month before this Government came to office to the current situation where it is creating over 3,000 jobs per month.

This Department does not undertake employment forecasts. However, the Government’s Action Plan for Jobs has set the objective of supporting the creation of 100,000 extra jobs in the economy over the period 2012 to 2016 through a series of annual measures aimed at improving Ireland’s competitiveness and making it easier for enterprises to do business. As part of the action plan, Forfás assessed the job potential of several sectors, including manufacturing, agrifood, ICT, tourism, business process outsourcing, international financial services, the green economy and retail and construction. There is a strong mix of both multinational companies and indigenous SMEs involved in these sectors. Enterprise Ireland has set a target of supporting 10,500 new jobs on a gross basis in 2013, while IDA Ireland aims to generate 13,000 gross new jobs this year. I am currently preparing the 2014 action plan on behalf of the Government and we will continue to build on the success of the actions we have taken over the past two years.

I thank the Minister for his reply but he did not quite answer my question. I understand his comments on making forecasts but my question, which follows on from Deputy McLellan's, asked the sectors in which the increases in jobs are expected to occur. The Minister referred to the acute problem of the mismatch of jobs and skills. This problem is not new, however. It existed under the previous Government, when the US Chamber of Commerce made some stark comments about the large number of jobs that were available in the multinational sector. No Government has addressed the problem with particular energy and FÁS, which until recently was continuing to overtrain people for construction jobs, still does not appear to have learned the lesson. How, precisely, is the Government addressing the problem of producing people with skills for sectors where employment is anticipated to grow? I am disappointed that the Minister appears to be unable to identify the sectors in which the jobs will be created.

Deputy Ross asked for forecasts which we do not provide. I indicated in my reply that we investigated the potential of sectors such as manufacturing, where we have identified potential for creating 20,000 jobs, and we are putting polices in place to realise that potential. In the financial sector, we have developed a five year plan to create up to 10,000 jobs in international financial services. Food presents a clear opportunity in this regard. Harvest 2020 aims to develop the agriculture sector and my Department has recently announced plans by Glanbia and Kerry Group to invest significantly in anticipation of greater output. We have also closely examined the potential of ICT, a sector in which a significant proportion of IDA jobs - 13,000 per year - are being created. We have identified opportunities in cloud computing and big data. In the digital games sector, a potential 2,500 jobs have been identified. We are investigating subsectors in which opportunities have been identified with a view to developing policies to deliver on these opportunities. That is the approach we take because it is not as exact a science as forecasting X number of jobs in manufacturing in 2014.

I agree with the Minister that it is a difficult area and understand why he is reluctant to give exact figures. However, this means the mismatch is almost certain to continue. We do not know how to train people because we do not know where the jobs will be created beyond a vague identification of the sectors. Where does he think jobs will be lost in the coming years? I hope his optimism is justified in regard to bringing the numbers down but there will certainly be job losses.

What store does he put in the forecasts produced by various bodies? The ESRI predicted growth of 2.7%, compared to the Department of Finance's prediction of 1.2%. Previous forecasts have been way off the mark not only in terms of growth, but also predictions of employment numbers. The ESRI, which this week issued a forecast that everybody greeted with enthusiasm, predicted in 2007: "The highest growth is expected among business, financial and legal professionals, whose numbers are predicted to rise by nearly 50%." Are these predictions credible?

We should consider what happened in the past 12 months. Agriculture, forestry and fishing generated 16,000 jobs, industry generated 7,000 jobs, wholesale and retail generated 3,000 jobs, accommodation and food services generated 10,000 jobs and professional, scientific and technical sectors generated 5,000 jobs. Growth in these sectors is adding significant numbers of jobs.

The expert group on future skills needs assists my Department and the Department of Education and Skills in building connections between education and industry. I do not pretend the bridge we are building is perfect but, in realistic terms, jobs have declined in recent years and skill shortages have not occurred in many areas. They are only beginning to emerge now. The ICT sector has faced a continuing skills shortage but in manufacturing, while key skills like plastic moulding and tool making are in demand, we are not yet seeing thousands of vacancies or needs. The expert group has identified areas of expertise in manufacturing and they are being communicated to colleges and SOLAS to assist in their planning. The process is ongoing for offering guidance to colleges, students and parents as to where skills opportunities can be found. Clearly wrong turns were taken and it takes time to get people to switch focus. However, a considerable amount of information is informing that process.

IDA Site Visits

Dara Calleary

Ceist:

4. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the reason some counties have received only one Industrial Development Agency Ireland-sponsored visit by potential overseas investors to date in 2013; the way he plans to address same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42819/13]

The challenge facing IDA Ireland is to continue winning top quality investment for Ireland in a difficult and competitive global environment. It also seeks to secure a required spread of investment across the regions. Investors usually come with quite clearly specified requirements and the IDA Ireland offers regional locations that meet those requirements in the choices for scheduled visits. It vigorously markets the gateway locations within each region and highlights the opportunities provided by hub locations that are within commuting distances of those gateways. With continuing enhancement and improvements in physical and digital infrastructure, a foreign direct investment, FDI, project secured for one gateway can have a positive impact on hubs, other gateways and their surrounding areas. However, it must be acknowledged that the decision on where a client company will locate a new FDI investment is made by the senior managers of the companies involved.

From 2008 to 2010, more than 16,000 net jobs were lost in IDA companies. Since the Government entered office, more than 12,500 net new jobs have been created. There have also been notable regional successes, including 1,500 jobs in PayPal and eBay in Dundalk, 200 jobs in Allergan in Westport, 200 jobs in Nypro in Waterford and 400 jobs in Northern Trust in Limerick.

The existing base of multinational companies in a region represents a substantial opportunity. Approximately 70% of all FDI investments won by the IDA are from the existing client base. In addition, success in a sector gives confidence to other investors of the region's capacity to meet their needs. The IDA seeks to develop sectoral clusters within regions.

ConnectIreland is a new initiative for promoting FDI. It has been successful in accessing new streams of investment, many to regional locations. For example, Mafic announced 70 jobs in Kells, Magni announced 50 new manufacturing jobs in Portarlington, with other jobs announcements in Galway and Longford. A key to its success is the vigorous involvement of the individuals and communities in specific regions to promote this opportunity and I encourage local authorities to build such networks.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

I am determined to ensure that Ireland can continue to compete globally for foreign direct investment. In winning such investments, however, I am mindful of the need to address the concerns that have been expressed to me by Deputies on all sides of the House about the relatively low level of site visits to certain regional locations. I have accordingly requested IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland to work with my Department so that we can explore what further initiatives we can take to ensure a better approach to enterprise development in regional locations. This exercise will complement the in-depth analysis of our FDI strategy that is being undertaken. This analysis will take account of factors such as key trends emerging in FDI best practice internationally, Ireland's strengths in attracting FDI and changes to the EU's state aid rules that will be introduced in 2014. These factors will inform the formulation of an appropriate FDI strategy for the period post 2014.

I thank the Minister. I will take him up on ConnectIreland, which is a fantastic project. Mr. Terry Clune and Mr. Tom Dowling have done good work in that regard. It has potential.

The difficulty lies in the fact that, given the visitation figures, there is a danger of a two-speed recovery. I accept that there is employment growth, but there is no sense in us concentrating that growth in specific parts of the country and not giving other parts that opportunity. Longford, which fits many of the criteria that the Minister mentioned, such as commuting areas, has received no visits since the beginning of 2012. The Minister referred to commuting distances, yet Carlow, Kildare, Meath, Wexford and Wicklow have received only one IDA site visit each this year. There are locations on the outskirts of Dublin that meet many of the criteria required by any international company. The figure of 275 visits so far this year is healthy. However, unless they are spread around areas outside of Dublin and other cities we will not achieve the full recovery that we need.

The most recent annual employment survey by Forfás shows that employment in agency-assisted companies in the north west decreased by more than 20% in the past nine years. There has been a further 1% reduction since the Government entered office. We need to start using regional centres. They tick all of the boxes that the Minister just outlined. The Department must push the IDA on what has been done in Longford. I cannot imagine that Deputy Bannon is keeping quiet on the matter. Just to save himself from that alone, the Minister should put a bit of pressure on the IDA to adopt a greater regional focus.

The Deputy speaks for many other Deputies who want to see a broader spread of IDA projects. I am mindful of the need to try to address those as best we can. There is considerable pressure on IDA Ireland to do so. An in-depth analysis of our FDI strategy is being undertaken. One of its dimensions will be a consideration of how to achieve a better regional spread.

Often, we compete for projects globally. It is not a question of Longford competing with Leitrim or Dublin. Rather, it is a question of whether Ireland can get a project instead of Singapore, the Netherlands, Luxembourg or wherever. That is the context.

This discussion of regional strategy needs to focus more on the competitive advantages of regions and not just in terms of FDI. In some regions, FDI only plays a small role. Many regional strengths are not in that sector. We need a regional strategy that accounts for entrepreneurship, the base of Enterprise Ireland companies and their capacity to become exporting companies. I am anxious to examine this type of broad-based, regional enterprise strategy. I am starting initiatives in this regard to determine whether we can frame such a strategy on a broader base. This is not to say that FDI is not important in all regions.

In terms of a broader approach, Mayo County Council's economic investment unit is the way to go. If the Taoiseach allows the Minister and Minister of State in, they should visit to see that work. Alternatively, we could arrange for the unit to visit them. The Minister of State would be well aware of it.

The Minister mentioned Allergan. A few weeks ago, we had the opportunity to meet its international board, which visited Westport for its annual meeting and spoke about the Allergan product. Would IDA Ireland locate Allergan in Westport today? Based on these figures, it would not, yet the Allergan experience of Westport has been amazing, as has its workforce. I want the workforces of Longford and elsewhere in my county to get the chance to recreate companies in the same way that the Allergan workforce has done in Westport since the mid-1970s. Based on this visit profile, that will not happen.

I accept that we are competing against large regions, but even Wicklow, Kildare and Meath in Dublin's commuter belt are not getting an appropriate number of visits. They can be sold as city regions with connectivity to colleges and industry and all of the criteria about which the Minister spoke, yet we seem determined to focus our efforts on this city. If we keep doing so, we will start walking down paths that we took in the 1990s and the early part of this century that we do not want to walk again.

The truth is, we need to be able to build on regional strengths, whatever they may be. Some companies will come for deep labour market pools. They identify their needs early. Either Ireland delivers on those needs or we lose the projects. This can result in a narrow choice of regional locations. However, this is not the case with other projects. Clearly, we need to develop a better flow of projects that are more regionally mobile. ConnectIreland plays a part in that. We also need to strengthen regions. I am keen to see them building competitive strengths and to work with them in that regard.

It is not as simple as just telling IDA Ireland to start shifting pawns around the board, but we can build stronger magnets of attraction within our regions and pursue companies that fit them. This forms part of the revision of strategy that we need to consider.

Small and Medium Enterprises Supports

Sandra McLellan

Ceist:

5. Deputy Sandra McLellan asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the number of meetings that he has had with banks to deal with the issue of small and medium enterprise lending. [42596/13]

Liaising with banks in respect of their lending to small to medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, has been a continual process involving myself, colleague Ministers and officials. Most recently I met the CEO of one of the pillar banks in June.

The Cabinet committee on mortgage arrears and credit availability meets monthly and reviews access to finance for SMEs, including bank lending to SMEs. The credit consultation committee established under the terms of the Action Plan for Jobs has met seven times since its inception to discuss with the banks and other interested parties the availability of credit to SMEs.

In developing the Action Plan for Jobs, I have sought the broadest possible involvement through submissions and regional meetings. I have included banks in this process. I have had direct meetings with senior bank executives at national level. The Minister of State, Deputy Perry, has also undertaken a specific regional round of seven meetings on access to finance.

As the Deputy knows, arising from this work I have developed the micro-finance initiative, the loan guarantee scheme and the development capital fund. My Department is in regular contact with the pillar banks to discuss the availability of credit to the SME sector and to discuss the performance of the SME credit guarantee scheme and the micro-enterprise loan fund, which the Minister of State has outlined to the House. My officials and I also work closely with the Credit Review Office, CRO, to track lending and credit refusals in order to safeguard businesses and jobs.

The SME sector is responsible for more than 78% of all jobs in the economy. We supported the Government when it introduced the micro-enterprise loan and credit guarantee schemes.

These schemes were developed to supplement bank lending and not replace it. They are not performing and should be reviewed. Given that the cost of the credit for the microenterprise scheme exceeds the market rate, this is not surprising. However, we believe that if amended, these schemes can play a role for SMEs.

Bank lending to the SME sector continues to be troubled. SME rates of refusal are growing again, as demonstrated by ISME surveys. The Credit Review Office continues to challenge the individual decisions of banks after an application has been refused.

How can the Government use its standing as a major creditor of the banking system to ensure banks lend to meet the cashflow and investment needs of SMEs? In his meetings with the banks, did the Minister raise the issue of meaningful additional lending targets as separate from roll-over loans? Has he raised the issue of legacy loans arising from property that are dragging down viable businesses? When will banks start putting the people's money to productive use?

There is a lot in the Deputy's questions. I thank both Opposition parties for their support for the two initiatives - microfinance and the credit loan guarantee. They are new and have not been tried before. We are determined to improve them, and the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, has outlined the position concerning microfinance. There is also a later question about the credit loan guarantee. We have initiated a review and are re-examining the terms of that guarantee. We want to improve it in order that it can meet the ambitions we all have for it.

Data are hard to get concerning the refusal of loans to SMEs. However, the RED C survey undertaken for the Government shows an improvement in refusal rates, although it is still too high. We must ensure the requirement to be refused a loan before accessing microfinance or a loan guarantee should not become a bureaucratic obstacle. We are trying to streamline that as well as ensuring bankers in the front line know such schemes are available. They should direct people, at the time of a refusal, to actively consider these alternatives.

Banks are meeting their lending targets but the Deputy is right that new lending to SMEs has only risen in two quarters out of the last four. It is bouncing along at a level of about €2 billion a year. I would certainly like to see that figure growing. That is not to say, however, that the other restructuring offers are not important as well. We have ambitions to have more targets in the area of new lending.

I thank the Minister for his reply. Many businesses were told by banks to diversify their investments, including property. Many SMEs followed this advice. The Government moved with indecent speed to support major developers and bail out the banks. What is the plan to secure jobs in viable SMEs which are burdened by legacy loans?

When the Deputy says "bail out developers", the truth is that no developer has received any bailout. As the Deputy knows from newspaper reports, developers are being continually pursued for assets by State agencies. Of course, we have had to keep the banks open. Bank shareholders have been wiped out, but the banks continue, and we need to rebuild solid lending institutions focused on the needs of SMEs.

There are many problems in this area, and there is no doubt that a banking system that is reducing the size of its loan book and is trying to get back into a proper relationship is constrained. On aggregate, we have €2.5 billion in alternative funding sources for business that is not coming from banks. That is part of our response, between the National Pensions Reserve Fund, development capital funds and the schemes to which we referred. There are targets on pursuing the banks but we are also introducing new vehicles that we must make strong and roadworthy. That process is continuing.

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