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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 17 Oct 2013

Vol. 817 No. 3

Business of Dáil

Before I commence the next item of business, I wish to correct the record of the House. Last evening, when I was not in the Chair, Deputy Gerry Adams made a statement which was totally inaccurate. He stated:

I just want to say Sinn Féin was denied its speaking slot this evening by a direct intervention by the Ceann Comhairle. I want to protest about this.

I did no such thing. I want the record corrected. I wish to point out to the House that we strictly adhered to the representation of the various groupings in the House. In case anyone is under any misunderstanding about this, there are now 69 Deputies in the Fine Gael Party who hold the whip, 34 Deputies in the Labour Party, 19 Deputies in Fianna Fáil, 13 Deputies in Sinn Féin, 14 Independents not aligned to the Technical Group, and 16 members of the Technical Group. There are actually 30 Members not aligned to political parties. Therefore, when I made a decision that Independent Deputies would have a right to speak in the House, the slots were allocated entirely proportionately. In fact, in the debate yesterday, Sinn Féin got three speaking slots and the non-aligned Independent Deputies got two slots.

Fianna Fáil got four slots.

I want everybody to understand that this Chair acts totally independently and there is a tradition in this House that speaking slots are allocated proportionately and they will be continued to be so allocated. There is no such thing as an official list; it is purely as a matter of convenience that the Chair allows for a list to be compiled, but it is the duty of the Chair to ensure fair play and it is the duty of the Chair to call the next speaker in accordance with Standing Orders. I object to the questioning of my independence and the statement that I personally intervened to deny Sinn Féin a speaking slot.

I wish to move on to deal with the motion.

(Interruptions).

We are not having a debate on this matter.

Can I ask a question?

Excuse me, Deputy; please resume your seat. You are not entitled to any response. Please resume your seat, like everyone else.

On a point of order-----

I corrected the record of the House and that is all I am doing.

I certainly have the right to put on the record what happened.

No, Deputy. You are not entitled to put anything on the record because you were totally out of order. Please resume your seat.

Where is the democracy in that?

I am moving to deal with the motion-----

Ceann Comhairle, with respect, you made an important statement which cannot be glossed over. For example, Deputy Ó Cuív thought he had a speaking slot last night-----

I corrected the record of the House.

-----but he had no opportunity. I respectfully suggest that we need to meet-----

I have made my statement. Please resume your seat, Deputy Martin.

-----because the budget debate has just ended and we do not know when it will be resumed. If we had a bit of cop-on and common sense everybody would get a decent opportunity to speak, Independents included. The Chair cannot arbitrarily-----

I am on my feet, Deputy Martin.

With respect, I will resume my seat, but you should allow people to talk-----

You are out of order. I ask the Tánaiste to move the motion.

On a point of order-----

There is no point of order on a correction that I am making to the record of the House.

If we were to have a discussion we could sort this out. The Government decides there is to be no more debate on the budget.

The Deputy misunderstands what I said, which is that I am correcting an incorrect statement made in this House.

I want to challenge that.

That is all I am doing. I now call on the Tánaiste to move the motion.

On a point of order-----

There is no point of order on a correction statement.

Are you refusing to allow a Member of the House to raise a point of order?

Please resume your seats.

Are you refusing to allow me to make a point of order?

Resume your seat and I will explain it to you. A motion will be put to the House. Prior to that, I am entitled, as Chair, to correct any inaccurate misinformation that was delivered to the House last night. That is what I did.

That is a grievous charge.

As a Member of the House, am I allowed to make a point of order?

No, you are not, because there is no point of order on a statement to correct the record.

I wish to move the motion-----

(Interruptions).

Please resume your seats.

Someone wants to make a point of order and he is entitled to do so.

We need to hear what he says-----

I do not need a lecture from you, Deputy Martin. Do you know the meaning of a point of order? Is it a point of order on a correction I made to the record of the House?

I would like to hear what Deputy Donnelly wants to raise first and then the Chair can adjudicate.

How is Deputy Donnelly involved in this matter? I am correcting the record of the House.

If I may explain very quickly-----

It is not a point of order.

It is relevant to what the Chair referenced. He said that Fianna Fáil had 19 seats, Sinn Féin 13 seats and the Technical Group 16 seats. With the greatest respect, the Ceann Comhairle also said that the time was allocated in proportion to the number of seats. Four speaking slots were allocated to Fianna Fáil, three to Sinn Féin and two to the Technical Group.

That is in accordance with Standing Orders.

My question on a point of order is how is the allocation-----

If the Deputy resumes his seat I will explain it. An order of the House, which I am obliged to follow, directed that spokespersons for the following are given time. Therefore, it does not come under the normal slot arrangements. Does the Deputy understand now?

I ask the Tánaiste to move the motion.

A Cheann Comhairle, you allowed a point of order from Deputy Donnelly. I wish to make a point of order.

You said I misrepresented what had occurred.

Excuse me, Deputy. I read out the official record of the House.

Am I to be denied?

If you wish me to read it again I will do so. The Deputy said:

I just want to say Sinn Féin was denied its speaking slot this evening by a direct intervention by the Ceann Comhairle. I want to protest about this.

That is totally untrue, and that is what I am correcting.

Am I not allowed to give you my-----

No, because I am correcting the record of the House.

I think the Ceann Comhairle is behaving in a totally improper way by not allowing me-----

Was the Deputy behaving in a totally proper way when he made that statement without any evidence whatsoever?

What is the evidence?

If you let me speak for two minutes we can move on.

No, I will not let you speak for two minutes.

You are not entitled to speak for two minutes. That is the reason.

You are allowed to make a speech.

I am entitled to correct the record where my reputation and the independence of this Chair are put at risk.

The Ceann Comhairle has said this in front of me and others. Surely, in the interests of decency and fairness, I am entitled-----

-----to outline what happened yesterday.

No, I am outlining exactly what you said in this House.

Excuse me, I know what I said.

It is incorrect. That is all I am saying.

Other representatives here have the right to hear-----

No, they are not entitled to hear what happened.

You made an incorrect statement and I am correcting it.

No, I did not make an incorrect statement.

A Cheann Comhairle, could we-----

Let us proceed with the motion.

Could I make a point of order?

Would it be possible to convene a meeting between the leaders-----

A Cheann Comhairle-----

Deputy Martin should sit down, please. The other Deputy is well able to look after himself.

Could I make a point of order?

Sit down, Deputy Martin.

I wish to tell you what happened yesterday.

I am not interested in what happened yesterday.

You should be interested.

I am interested in what you stated in the House-----

I understand that.

-----which was incorrect. I am correct in saying that Sinn Féin got three slots.

Let me explain to you the context in which I made the remarks.

The Deputy is making a habit of making those kinds of explanations.

It is in black and white.

I could have said all I wanted in one minute. I had to leave here yesterday-----

I do not want to know where you had to go.

-----to attend a family funeral-----

That has nothing to do with me.

I sent word-----

You had three speaking slots throughout the day.

I sent word to your office that I would not be available for Leaders' Questions.

Yes, that happens regularly.

I understand that entirely. I was allocated-----

We are only wasting time.

-----a slot for 8.30 p.m. I returned-----

You were not allocated a slot for 8.30 p.m.

I was. I returned from Belfast to speak on the budget.

Nobody is allocated a slot for any given time.

Your office informed us that the rota had been rearranged-----

No, I did not rearrange anything.

You had rearranged the order.

Who told you that?

My office was told that by your office.

I was shown this-----

No, your office was not told that by my office.

-----yesterday.

Excuse me, but that is another incorrect statement.

It was shown yesterday on the computer by the Clerk.

The computer does not decide who speaks.

The Ceann Comhairle inputs it.

I do not decide.

Whoever puts it in the computer decides the order.

Will the Deputy resume his seat and listen to what I say? It is a matter of convenience that we allocate slots proportionately, simply to bring a sort of order to the proceedings. Strictly speaking, it is a matter for the Chair to call the next speaker. The slots allocated yesterday were proportional to the representation in this House.

Sinn Féin, with 13 Members, got three slots, as opposed to Independents not aligned to the Technical Group, who got two slots.

That is not proportionate.

Will Deputies be quiet?

How do we get fewer slots?

The Deputies agreed to an order.

Is it the case that the Reform Alliance is an Opposition party?

Join a party.

Deputy Martin should resume his seat.

Is the Reform Alliance an Opposition party now?

The Deputy should resume his seat.

Deputy Ó Cuív lost his slot as well. The issue would be sorted-----

I wish to move No. d7.

-----if the debate had not been guillotined-----

Will Deputies allow the Tánaiste to move-----

-----and greater opportunities were given to people.

Fine Gael is getting funding for them, which is a total farce.

That is for the supposedly non-aligned Deputies.

The same as Fianna Fáil did with Deputy Mattie McGrath.

He is an Independent.

-----the motion?

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